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Re: Conservation easment purchase [Re: coldtrail] #2957664
11/16/19 08:30 AM
11/16/19 08:30 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,751
USA
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Remington270 Offline
Freak of Nature
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Originally Posted by coldtrail
So you're basically sellling your freedom and rights to do what you want to your property. Makes me wonder ehat other righrs people would put on the market. 2nd Amendment?

The dems are buying if people are selling.


I don’t think people will get any money for their gun rights. They’ll probably get a fine or worse if they don’t comply.

But you really lose control of your land in an easement situation. Plans involving land clearing or even making a new path require paperwork. It defeats the purpose of owning land.

Re: Conservation easment purchase [Re: coldtrail] #2957730
11/16/19 09:39 AM
11/16/19 09:39 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 63,338
Luverne, AL
Skinny Offline
GUVNER
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Luverne, AL
There is some mis-information going on here about conservation easements. I'm guessing because there are a lot of different kinds of easements. But WRP, GRP etc... are really good plans. Some people get EQIP mixed up with easements, that is just shared assistance and works with an entire different set of rules.


Never Trust Government

"You can be broke but you cant be poor." Ruthie-May Webster
Re: Conservation easment purchase [Re: coldtrail] #2957839
11/16/19 11:35 AM
11/16/19 11:35 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 20,017
PDL, Fl
T
timbercruiser Offline
Freak of Nature
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PDL, Fl
Before you sign up for any kind of government program like a conservation easement on a tract of land get a good real estate attorney to review the papers and thoroughly explain what you are doing. All conservation easements are not alike. I know a tract here in Florida that the owner signed up and left a mess for the heirs. They can't do anything on the property including hunting, you aren't even suppose to walk on the property, can't graze a cow in there or anything else, and it is perpetual.

Re: Conservation easment purchase [Re: Whild_Bill] #2958052
11/16/19 03:09 PM
11/16/19 03:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,135
Ramer
ronfromramer Offline
10 point
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Originally Posted by Whild_Bill
Landowner does not get a big fat check. They get a tax credit that is based on an appraisal of what the land would be worth if it were to be developed. Future value. The tax credit can be used by the owner or sold to others looking for tax credits.


On WRP, the landowner does get a big fat check on the front end and all of the improvements are paid for by the government thru NRCS. There are options on the duration. If you grant a permanent easement, the money received upfront is taxed as a long term capital gain.
With CRP, you get an annual payment for 10 years and the period can be renewed, that money is taxed as income I believe. Both are pretty sweet deals depending on the individual situation.
On one of our leases, the landowner is making more from our lease payment plus his CRP payment than he was making from running cows on the property and now he just got paid damn good money from the first thinning of his CRP pines, that's triple dipping

Re: Conservation easment purchase [Re: ronfromramer] #2958078
11/16/19 03:31 PM
11/16/19 03:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
C
centralala Offline
14 point
centralala  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
Originally Posted by ronfromramer
Originally Posted by Whild_Bill
Landowner does not get a big fat check. They get a tax credit that is based on an appraisal of what the land would be worth if it were to be developed. Future value. The tax credit can be used by the owner or sold to others looking for tax credits.


On WRP, the landowner does get a big fat check on the front end and all of the improvements are paid for by the government thru NRCS. There are options on the duration. If you grant a permanent easement, the money received upfront is taxed as a long term capital gain.
With CRP, you get an annual payment for 10 years and the period can be renewed, that money is taxed as income I believe. Both are pretty sweet deals depending on the individual situation.
On one of our leases, the landowner is making more from our lease payment plus his CRP payment than he was making from running cows on the property and now he just got paid damn good money from the first thinning of his CRP pines, that's triple dipping


Paid damn good money for a first thinning of pines?? I think he may have embellished a little on that part

Re: Conservation easment purchase [Re: centralala] #2958093
11/16/19 03:47 PM
11/16/19 03:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,135
Ramer
ronfromramer Offline
10 point
ronfromramer  Offline
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Posts: 4,135
Ramer
Originally Posted by centralala
Originally Posted by ronfromramer
Originally Posted by Whild_Bill
Landowner does not get a big fat check. They get a tax credit that is based on an appraisal of what the land would be worth if it were to be developed. Future value. The tax credit can be used by the owner or sold to others looking for tax credits.


On WRP, the landowner does get a big fat check on the front end and all of the improvements are paid for by the government thru NRCS. There are options on the duration. If you grant a permanent easement, the money received upfront is taxed as a long term capital gain.
With CRP, you get an annual payment for 10 years and the period can be renewed, that money is taxed as income I believe. Both are pretty sweet deals depending on the individual situation.
On one of our leases, the landowner is making more from our lease payment plus his CRP payment than he was making from running cows on the property and now he just got paid damn good money from the first thinning of his CRP pines, that's triple dipping


Paid damn good money for a first thinning of pines?? I think he may have embellished a little on that part



$8.50/ton for pulp and $11.50 for canterwood ain't too shabby, I wouldn't feel too bad about $80-100k for around 200 acres

Re: Conservation easment purchase [Re: coldtrail] #2958096
11/16/19 03:53 PM
11/16/19 03:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
C
centralala Offline
14 point
centralala  Offline
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central ala,
The days of damn good money are over. I'll have to look some up but I remember over $20/ton for pulp.

Re: Conservation easment purchase [Re: centralala] #2958184
11/16/19 04:50 PM
11/16/19 04:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 25,686
South Alabama
R
Rebelman Offline
Freak of Nature
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South Alabama
Originally Posted by centralala
The days of damn good money are over. I'll have to look some up but I remember over $20/ton for pulp.


I doubt it. Maybe $20/cord.


On the contrary, pine Pw gets to $20/ton nearly every year winter. Just need good ground.

Re: Conservation easment purchase [Re: ronfromramer] #2958224
11/16/19 05:25 PM
11/16/19 05:25 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,206
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
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Boxes Cove
Originally Posted by ronfromramer
Originally Posted by Whild_Bill
Landowner does not get a big fat check. They get a tax credit that is based on an appraisal of what the land would be worth if it were to be developed. Future value. The tax credit can be used by the owner or sold to others looking for tax credits.


On WRP, the landowner does get a big fat check on the front end and all of the improvements are paid for by the government thru NRCS. There are options on the duration. If you grant a permanent easement, the money received upfront is taxed as a long term capital gain.
With CRP, you get an annual payment for 10 years and the period can be renewed, that money is taxed as income I believe. Both are pretty sweet deals depending on the individual situation.
On one of our leases, the landowner is making more from our lease payment plus his CRP payment than he was making from running cows on the property and now he just got paid damn good money from the first thinning of his CRP pines, that's triple dipping


Once again WRP, CRP , Guvment cost share programs are totally different from Conservation Easements. Apples to Punkins.



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Conservation easment purchase [Re: coldtrail] #2959001
11/17/19 06:52 AM
11/17/19 06:52 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,640
Sweet Home Alabama
H
hosscat Offline
10 point
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,640
Sweet Home Alabama
I bought a small parcel a few years back that is almost entirely encumbered by a conservation easement. The way it's written it's forever and will never expire. And it's pretty limiting too (no cutting trees, no atv riding, no agriculture, etc). Buts is all wet Creek bottom that was left over from a subdivision.
I paid Penny's on the dollar for it, and now have a small tractor in town minutes from my office I can bow hunt.

One day I may get a lawyer to look into my options on the easement because I would much rather it was not there. A little time with a multcher head and I could make that place nice to hunt

Re: Conservation easment purchase [Re: coldtrail] #2959009
11/17/19 07:17 AM
11/17/19 07:17 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 238
Guntersville, Alabama
bamacamp Offline
4 point
bamacamp  Offline
4 point
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 238
Guntersville, Alabama
Conservation easements are an extremely popular method for those who can afford it to receive a tax right off. IRS code allows someone to purchase a property for say 100,000; you then have to hold onto the property for one year at which time if the land has a higher value say as a commercial development (perhaps it has lake view lots or something of that matter) you have the ability to have the land appraised and the come up with what the actual land could be worth (say 500,000) if truly developed into a subdivision.

You are then allowed to take the difference in what appraised value and what you paid for it (400,000 in this example) and submit a easement plan—if approved you can write the 400,000 dollars off your taxes over a 15 year period on up to half our of your yearly income. Basically it’s a really nice tax shelter but you have to spend a good bit up front hiring proper appraisers and getting your development plan to meet standard.

But yes after the property is eased you cannot develop it and it must be basically left in its current condition other than for something like hunting. However you have a nice tax write off and still have your hunting property. Win win in my opinion.

Last edited by bamacamp; 11/17/19 07:18 AM.
Re: Conservation easment purchase [Re: coldtrail] #2959017
11/17/19 07:36 AM
11/17/19 07:36 AM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,652
Alabama
OlTimer Offline
10 point
OlTimer  Offline
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Posts: 2,652
Alabama
bamacamp, might want to check out the links I posted. This is all in the process of being stopped and people will be doing time for false valuations in some examples.

Re: Conservation easment purchase [Re: bamacamp] #2959029
11/17/19 07:51 AM
11/17/19 07:51 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 34,206
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
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Boxes Cove
Originally Posted by bamacamp
Conservation easements are an extremely popular method for those who can afford it to receive a tax right off. IRS code allows someone to purchase a property for say 100,000; you then have to hold onto the property for one year at which time if the land has a higher value say as a commercial development (perhaps it has lake view lots or something of that matter) you have the ability to have the land appraised and the come up with what the actual land could be worth (say 500,000) if truly developed into a subdivision.

You are then allowed to take the difference in what appraised value and what you paid for it (400,000 in this example) and submit a easement plan—if approved you can write the 400,000 dollars off your taxes over a 15 year period on up to half our of your yearly income. Basically it’s a really nice tax shelter but you have to spend a good bit up front hiring proper appraisers and getting your development plan to meet standard.

But yes after the property is eased you cannot develop it and it must be basically left in its current condition other than for something like hunting. However you have a nice tax write off and still have your hunting property. Win win in my opinion.


That's it in a nutshell.

We have a couple hundred acres that could be quarried and mined for limestone. I've looked into getting one not to mine it ,( not looking to put in a quarry anyway.) In the right situations they are really good for the landowner.



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Conservation easment purchase [Re: coldtrail] #2959044
11/17/19 08:01 AM
11/17/19 08:01 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,094
Birmingham,AL
L
low wall Online content
6 point
low wall  Online Content
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,094
Birmingham,AL
Bamacamp gave an excellent description of the way it works. The IRS has traditionally been very negative towards these easements, and if you are going to do it, you had better have an appraiser and attorney who are VERY familiar with the process. Sirote and Permutt, a Birminghamlaw firm, has a national reputation for successfully defending these. There has been considerably abuse of the system in recent years, with groups selling "shares", and using inflated/deflated appraisals and the IRS is absolutely clamping down on that (including criminal charges). I've seen a few appraisals involving easements, and it's my impression that there is a lot of ignorance about both the process and the values, even in the appraisal profession.


Used to be a lifeguard, until that blue kid got me fired.
Re: Conservation easment purchase [Re: coldtrail] #2959057
11/17/19 08:15 AM
11/17/19 08:15 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 63,338
Luverne, AL
Skinny Offline
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Skinny  Offline
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Luverne, AL
unless the rules have changed recently, a landowner cannot get in the WRP/GRP program unless they have owned the land for 7 years or more. That prevents folks from doing a quick property flip for the WRP cash.


Never Trust Government

"You can be broke but you cant be poor." Ruthie-May Webster
Re: Conservation easment purchase [Re: coldtrail] #2959146
11/17/19 09:40 AM
11/17/19 09:40 AM
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Remington270 Offline
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I’m glad my great grandparents didn’t lock our family land down with that BS. These things are typically in place forever.

Re: Conservation easment purchase [Re: Remington270] #2959156
11/17/19 09:51 AM
11/17/19 09:51 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 63,338
Luverne, AL
Skinny Offline
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Skinny  Offline
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Originally Posted by Remington270
I’m glad my great grandparents didn’t lock our family land down with that BS. These things are typically in place forever.


Not true. It depends on the agreement. Some are just 10 year easements others are full forever, and there are clauses and a lot of lawyer paper for each specific easement. I have seen conservation easements just for dirt roads that have a 20 year renewal clause.


Never Trust Government

"You can be broke but you cant be poor." Ruthie-May Webster
Re: Conservation easment purchase [Re: Remington270] #2959357
11/17/19 01:35 PM
11/17/19 01:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Out back Offline
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Out back  Offline
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Clanton, AL
Originally Posted by Remington270
I’m glad my great grandparents didn’t lock our family land down with that BS. These things are typically in place forever.

I wish my grandparents had the foresight to do exactly that.
We've lost thousands of acres in the past 50 years because of heirs selling family land.
Its a damn unforgivable shame.


My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
Re: Conservation easment purchase [Re: Out back] #2959376
11/17/19 01:58 PM
11/17/19 01:58 PM
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Remington270 Offline
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Originally Posted by Out back
Originally Posted by Remington270
I’m glad my great grandparents didn’t lock our family land down with that BS. These things are typically in place forever.

I wish my grandparents had the foresight to do exactly that.
We've lost thousands of acres in the past 50 years because of heirs selling family land.
Its a damn unforgivable shame.


You can’t subdivide conservation easement land. So someone would either have to pony up and buy all the land from the estate, or the whole thing would have to sell as one tract.

Re: Conservation easment purchase [Re: Skinny] #2959378
11/17/19 02:01 PM
11/17/19 02:01 PM
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Remington270 Offline
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Originally Posted by Skinny
Originally Posted by Remington270
I’m glad my great grandparents didn’t lock our family land down with that BS. These things are typically in place forever.


Not true. It depends on the agreement. Some are just 10 year easements others are full forever, and there are clauses and a lot of lawyer paper for each specific easement. I have seen conservation easements just for dirt roads that have a 20 year renewal clause.


I’m not talking about any old easement for access. I’m talking about a federally recognized, IRS sanctioned conservation easement.

https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tip...ervation-easements-of-property/L8jRT8xAy

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