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Farming Ag Fields vs Managing Wildlife Plots #2923460
10/10/19 12:41 PM
10/10/19 12:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,543
Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline OP
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
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Awbarn, AL
Do you see there being a difference in the two?..............Should wildlife managers be “farming” for wildlife and mimicking what the farmer does? Is that the best approach to managing wildlife plots in your opinion?

Just for a couple examples to scratch the surface and get the conversation started....The thread on hairy vetch got me to thinking about this.....If hairy vetch is a bad option for the farmer....then is it also a bad option for the wildlife manager?....Should we approach "weeds" the same way the farmer does? If the farmer says pigweed or thistle is bad....then is it also bad for the wildlife manager?


The Corn Crash!!!
Re: Farming Ag Fields vs Managing Wildlife Plots [Re: CNC] #2923472
10/10/19 12:56 PM
10/10/19 12:56 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,147
Satsuma, AL
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Robert D. Offline
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Satsuma, AL
Benton Farms between Selma and Montgomery on Hwy 80 (once the largest cotton farm in the state) was founded by the grandfather of the two current operators. He came to the area and found a lot of "worn out" dirt. He planted vetch and then turned it under when it got big to restore some organic matter to the soil. I probably have some of these facts a little off, and I'm sure 257 will be along directly to clarify.

The patriarch claimed the vetch improved the soil tremendously. His grandson's were also pioneers of the no-till movement in the Central Alabama area.

As to your second question, yes. Managing the soil health is as important as anything else we do. Farmers (good ones anyway) are extremely interested and involved in the soil health on their farms. We should be too if we want the maximum return (bigger, healthier deer) from our lease investment.

Re: Farming Ag Fields vs Managing Wildlife Plots [Re: CNC] #2923484
10/10/19 01:15 PM
10/10/19 01:15 PM
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Lincoln, Alabama
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blumsden Offline
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Two completely different things IMO. If i'm growing food, I want every inch of the field planted for volume. With a plot I don't have to have every square inch planted. I don't mind weeds, because neither do the deer. In some cases, deer like the weeds as well, if not better than what we have planted. I would agree that soil health is key to both being successful.

Re: Farming Ag Fields vs Managing Wildlife Plots [Re: CNC] #2923494
10/10/19 01:27 PM
10/10/19 01:27 PM
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Posts: 34,209
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
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Similar , yet different, I'd say kinda like managing beef cattle V milk cattle. They're both cattle , some things would be the same , some different.



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Farming Ag Fields vs Managing Wildlife Plots [Re: CNC] #2923744
10/10/19 07:06 PM
10/10/19 07:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,546
North Alabama
BamaPlowboy Offline
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Hairy vetch isn’t bad for farmers, it depends on what your goals are and how you manage it. I like to use it as a companion with clover and rye or oats to make a mulch for no till vegetables and corn but to wheat and strawberry farmers it’s a weed that needs to be eliminated as to your larger point i don’t manage my food plots as intensely as cash crops but do give them a fighting chance, a few weeds don’t upset me unless it’s pigweed. I’m beginning to believe cover is more important for me to others food may be more important.

Last edited by BamaPlowboy; 10/10/19 07:09 PM.
Re: Farming Ag Fields vs Managing Wildlife Plots [Re: BamaPlowboy] #2923754
10/10/19 07:23 PM
10/10/19 07:23 PM
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ronfromramer Offline
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Originally Posted by BamaPlowboy
Hairy vetch isn’t bad for farmers, it depends on what your goals are and how you manage it. I like to use it as a companion with clover and rye or oats to make a mulch for no till vegetables and corn but to wheat and strawberry farmers it’s a weed that needs to be eliminated as to your larger point i don’t manage my food plots as intensely as cash crops but do give them a fighting chance, a few weeds don’t upset me unless it’s pigweed. I’m beginning to believe cover is more important for me to others food may be more important.


Pigweed can be a pain in the butt but everywhere I've ever had it, the deer loved it, especially if its in a fertilized plot. First time I realized deer ate it was in a chufa plot. Every time I checked on the chufas, there were deer in the plot. I eventually realized they were browsing on the pigweed

Re: Farming Ag Fields vs Managing Wildlife Plots [Re: CNC] #2923773
10/10/19 07:32 PM
10/10/19 07:32 PM
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Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
257wbymag Offline
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Clarify. There’s redroot pigweed. Not so bad. Then there’s Palmer pigweed. Public enemy #1. It’s from the devil himself.


Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!!
My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty
I'm the paterfamilias
Re: Farming Ag Fields vs Managing Wildlife Plots [Re: 257wbymag] #2923802
10/10/19 07:53 PM
10/10/19 07:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,546
North Alabama
BamaPlowboy Offline
10 point
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Originally Posted by 257wbymag
Clarify. There’s redroot pigweed. Not so bad. Then there’s Palmer pigweed. Public enemy #1. It’s from the devil himself.

Yep. I feel the same way about ragweed I know deer will browse but I can’t even breathe when I see that stuff.

Re: Farming Ag Fields vs Managing Wildlife Plots [Re: CNC] #2923804
10/10/19 07:56 PM
10/10/19 07:56 PM
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Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
257wbymag Offline
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N. Bama
Heck no. It’s awful too


Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!!
My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty
I'm the paterfamilias
Re: Farming Ag Fields vs Managing Wildlife Plots [Re: 257wbymag] #2923839
10/10/19 08:25 PM
10/10/19 08:25 PM
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ronfromramer Offline
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Originally Posted by 257wbymag
Clarify. There’s redroot pigweed. Not so bad. Then there’s Palmer pigweed. Public enemy #1. It’s from the devil himself.


Its redroot pigweed. I'm not a fan, but we have it in summer plots. We try to control it but every plant I see has been browsed on by deer. I'd damn sure trade our sickle pod for it and be real happy

Re: Farming Ag Fields vs Managing Wildlife Plots [Re: CNC] #2924252
10/11/19 01:23 PM
10/11/19 01:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,543
Awbarn, AL
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Dances With Weeds
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My idea of managing food plots has changed tremendously over the last decade and its still evolving even now. I see there being a lot of similarities in what we do as wildlife managers compared to the farmer but I see a lot of differences as well. One of the biggest differences is that the farmer likes everything to be nice and neat….while the food plot manager would probably benefit from just the opposite….even though many folks still want to mimic the neat clean fields of the farmer. I’m far enough along in my soil rebuilding process that I think I can probably grow a pretty decent field by simply broadcasting my seed before a good rain. All of the conditions and variables of my field should set up well for that. What I’m looking at now is incorporating “structure” into my food plots instead of having them be bare open circles. 2dogs and others compared deer to fish in one of the other recent threads and talked about how each one liked to use structure. However, how many of us are making food plots that mimic a pond that’s nothing but a bare clean circle….like for watering cattle. Is that how you would set up a killer bass pond?

I think I’m gonna try leaving the “structure” this year……….

[Linked Image]


The Corn Crash!!!
Re: Farming Ag Fields vs Managing Wildlife Plots [Re: CNC] #2924254
10/11/19 01:30 PM
10/11/19 01:30 PM
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Posts: 5,648
Lincoln, Alabama
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blumsden Offline
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Harold, I thought a couple years ago you left some strips of dog fennel in your plot behind your house, but you noticed that the deer didn't like being in it with their head down. Or am I remembering that wrong? You leaving strips this year or just a screen around it?

Re: Farming Ag Fields vs Managing Wildlife Plots [Re: blumsden] #2924262
10/11/19 01:57 PM
10/11/19 01:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
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Awbarn, AL
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Originally Posted by blumsden
Harold, I thought a couple years ago you left some strips of dog fennel in your plot behind your house, but you noticed that the deer didn't like being in it with their head down. Or am I remembering that wrong? You leaving strips this year or just a screen around it?


You’re right… I forgot about that. For whatever reason….the grain inside the strips did not get browsed as hard as the open areas. I attributed it to them feeling vulnerable as prey….kinda like a turkey does....and preferring a little space between them and the thick areas where they could be ambushed when they had their heads down. I’m just sitting here thinking though…the pic of those deer is twenty yards in front of my stand…..If I go mow all of that cover down and open it up….would he still walk that same line afterwards?....Likely not. I was thinking about just filling the hopper up on the tractor and broadcasting seed in amongst all of it…trying to avoid taking down the dog fennel and other plants that are giving the field some structure. I have dead hay across the whole field just under knee high that should protect the seed and create a greenhouse effect underneath. I think there’s enough light getting through for the grain to establish and once it does the deer will beat down the rest of the hay. I do wonder if they’ll feel as secure feeding in it though now that you mention that other experiment.

Last edited by CNC; 10/11/19 01:58 PM.

The Corn Crash!!!
Re: Farming Ag Fields vs Managing Wildlife Plots [Re: CNC] #2924394
10/11/19 06:21 PM
10/11/19 06:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
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Awbarn, AL
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Dances With Weeds
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Awbarn, AL
I’ve got an idea Blum…….Now that baiting is legal anyways……I’m gonna mix in a couple hundred pounds of corn with a couple hundred pounds of seed and use the deer to help me plant. About to plant my field using dgallow’s mob grazing technique he uses with cattle. The deer should beat down the hay and hoof my seed into the soil enough to get things established. Watch this!!! grin

Last edited by CNC; 10/11/19 06:22 PM.

The Corn Crash!!!
Re: Farming Ag Fields vs Managing Wildlife Plots [Re: CNC] #2925122
10/12/19 05:34 PM
10/12/19 05:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 13,018
Montgomery, Alabama
jaredhunts Offline
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Costa to much to plant a crop for deer in a traditional farming style. Seasonal burning wouldnbe tha most cost effective method. Plus droughts wont cost as much in the end.


It be's that way sometimes.

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Re: Farming Ag Fields vs Managing Wildlife Plots [Re: CNC] #2925681
10/13/19 03:38 PM
10/13/19 03:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 384
The triangle Bullock county an...
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DAX Offline
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My answer to this question is its all about your spceific situation. Whats your property, topography, soil, field size, financial, equipment and so on situations. All these are the main factors that dictate want a person can do on his property. The biggest problem I see that wildlife managers make is to try to do something on thier property that they saw on TV or read in QDMA that somebody is doing in Illinois or Iowa. When I look a a piece of property I always start with the cheepest and easiest thing to fix not get my drill and plant 40ac of beans. There are so many factors the go into I can't cover them all but the most important thing I tell people is plant what grows best on your place in your soil and think about quality tonage first not attraction and everything will work its self out. Now as far as my place no club, no pay hunts, and no guest, just me and my partner on thousands of acres with a big budget and big boy farm equipment and dozers and big fields in great soil. I basically row crop farm 50 to 80 acres every year mainly planting forage soybeans because fake farming is my passion. I turned every field thats less them 2ac into ladino clover fields years ago. All the big fields are beans and every fall I over seed the clover plots with wheat and Elbon lightly and take portions of the big beans fields this year the whloe fields and over seed Elbon and drill all kinds of suff. I use corn and egyption wheat as brakes and edges in large field but our deer aren't pressured and will just walk out in the middle of a 15ac field anyhow. We have about 100ac in plots or AG of some kind and would have more but my partners family has cow on some of his place. The size of the field basically dictates what we do if its small we lean toward perenial legumes if its big 5ac plus we put beans in it and cover crop it in the fall. This is a short explanation of what we do AG and Plot planting not the whole shabang alot more goes into it. Our place is bad to the bone because of a lot of factors but being able to grow a pile of soybeans every year is definitely a big key to the size of our deer and all the small clover fields really help during a time of year they have nothing else to eat. I do understand that we are the exception to the rule and are extremely blessed to have what we have essentially at an age we can enjoy it.

Re: Farming Ag Fields vs Managing Wildlife Plots [Re: CNC] #2925683
10/13/19 03:54 PM
10/13/19 03:54 PM
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The triangle Bullock county an...
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DAX Offline
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I also haven't plowed anything other then fire lanes in 4 year and my soil fertility and health is through the roof. I no till and throw and mow/cover crop everything inculde ladino clover field and yes they look unbelievable. Ive had guest hunt my place and couldn't believe that I didn't plow the fields they look so good. My soil Ph average on 15 fields that total about 100ac is 6.9. I have a 20 foot IH fold out disc and a 7 1/2 brown so I don't do it because I have to I don't plow because its the best way to go.

Re: Farming Ag Fields vs Managing Wildlife Plots [Re: CNC] #2925693
10/13/19 04:02 PM
10/13/19 04:02 PM
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257wbymag Offline
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If we had to go back to tillage in farming they’d all quit. If I had to go back to tillage in deer plots I’d quit hunting. Tillage is needed in some spots in some cases but not wall to wall like the old days. And even zone tillage is about all we’ll do


Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!!
My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty
I'm the paterfamilias
Re: Farming Ag Fields vs Managing Wildlife Plots [Re: CNC] #2925748
10/13/19 05:56 PM
10/13/19 05:56 PM
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The triangle Bullock county an...
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DAX Offline
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You hit the nail on the head. The only reasoy I would plow is if a field was to ruff to drive a tractor over just to level it out then no till from then on. Im like you I couldn't imagine lfe without my 10 foot 1590 with the native grass box it makes my old TYE drill feel like a 2 row Covington planter.

Re: Farming Ag Fields vs Managing Wildlife Plots [Re: DAX] #2925905
10/13/19 08:45 PM
10/13/19 08:45 PM
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Awbarn, AL
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Originally Posted by DAX
The biggest problem I see that wildlife managers make is to try to do something on thier property that they saw on TV or read in QDMA that somebody is doing in Illinois or Iowa.



This is spot on here ^^^^^^^^

Something else I see happening a lot too is that everyone of these videos or ads selling seed and equipment are always filmed on some plot on some high dollar farm that has the best dirt in four counties. They show the process and then present the results as if it were all because they used the “Plotmaster 3000” or the “Big Buck Seed Blend”….$29.99 retail……..When in actuality, the results were far more due to the great natural dirt they were plotting in. Folks watch them and then try to replicate it on their old worn out sand pits thinking that the plotmaster 3000 or big buck blend is all they need to grow plots just the same. It’s a bit of a sham. Let’s take those same products and go film a few episodes at a random hunting club on a random food plot like most folks are actually dealing with. Now that I might be excited to see the results of. wink


Last edited by CNC; 10/13/19 08:46 PM.

The Corn Crash!!!
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