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Hardwood floor install issue #2853126
07/16/19 05:42 PM
07/16/19 05:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,615
Lake View, AL
Joe4majors Online content OP
14 point
Joe4majors  Online Content OP
14 point
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,615
Lake View, AL
Someone from my previous church reached out to me regarding their hardwood floor coming up after a recent install in their downstair's den. No signs of water, but humidity is high. Not much info below, but any guesses from those of you that do this for a living? I can ask her for more details if needed.

"Joe, do you know where I could have a piece of manufactured hardwood analyze/tested? The glue used for installation needs to be tested also. The floor came up after being installed on a concrete foundation. There is a lot of humidity, but no water has been visible. ______ _______ installed it. He has done my whole house over years. It was all hardwood. It look fine. This concrete issue is different. He wants to blame the humidity, which is high. It was fine with carpet for years. No problems, no mold, nothing."

Re: Hardwood floor install issue [Re: Joe4majors] #2853132
07/16/19 05:52 PM
07/16/19 05:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 16,825
Banana Republic
jb20 Offline
Old Mossy Horns
jb20  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 16,825
Banana Republic
Humidity CAN do it...i ain't know professional so maybe someone else will chime in with other thoughts...


They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Ben Franklin
Re: Hardwood floor install issue [Re: Joe4majors] #2853135
07/16/19 05:57 PM
07/16/19 05:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 26,424
Helena
3
3toe Offline
Talking Turkey
3toe  Offline
Talking Turkey
3
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 26,424
Helena
Was the concrete sealed when he had carpet on it? I would assume yes if he had no moisture issues. If he didn’t take up the sealer it’s possible the glue is coming up because it can’t adhere to the sealer.

Last edited by 3toe; 07/16/19 05:58 PM.
Re: Hardwood floor install issue [Re: Joe4majors] #2853141
07/16/19 06:08 PM
07/16/19 06:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 665
Ms
FX4 Offline
4 point
FX4  Offline
4 point
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 665
Ms
Could be moisture, wrong glue, wrong trowel (didn't leave enough glue). Your friend may need to get a sales rep for the hardwood manufacturer to look at it. The store that sold them the wood can set it up.



Re: Hardwood floor install issue [Re: Joe4majors] #2853152
07/16/19 06:22 PM
07/16/19 06:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 6,892
Shelby Co, AL
CatHeadBiscuit Offline
14 point
CatHeadBiscuit  Offline
14 point
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 6,892
Shelby Co, AL
is the wood coming apart with the glue holding the bottom of the boards down? But the top surface is coming up. If so the install sounds ok but product is failing. If the boards weren’t allowed to sit in the room of install for a few days before install that can cause extensive expansion and contraction. Those flooring glues can also set real fast with higher humidity levels and form a skin that won’t adhere if too many rows are troweled down before the boards are placed.. They draw moisture from the air to cure.

This is all information contained in the instructions on the glue or in the wood packets if it’s engineered wood.


"Arguing on the internet is like playing chess with a pigeon. You may be good at chess, but the pigeon is just going to knock all the pieces down, take a crap on the table, and strut around like its victorious."--Anonymous
Re: Hardwood floor install issue [Re: Joe4majors] #2853217
07/16/19 07:53 PM
07/16/19 07:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 8,934
Between the coosa and cahaba
!
!shiloh! Online content
14 point
!shiloh!  Online Content
14 point
!
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 8,934
Between the coosa and cahaba
Is it a glue down engineered hardwood or a bamboo? I've seen problems from installers not using enough or right glue for the job. Installer could have used glue that had frozen prior to installation. Never ,never, never put hardwood or laminate in a basement. Tons of better and cheaper options than wood.


ggg
Re: Hardwood floor install issue [Re: Joe4majors] #2853230
07/16/19 08:03 PM
07/16/19 08:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 18,830
.
F
ford150man Offline
Old Mossy Horns
ford150man  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
F
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 18,830
.
This is neither here nor there now, but she should have used a floating floor if she wanted a wood type flooring.


If voting made any difference, they wouldn’t let us do it.-Mark Twain
Re: Hardwood floor install issue [Re: Joe4majors] #2853234
07/16/19 08:08 PM
07/16/19 08:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 22,677
Lickskillet, AL
Irishguy Offline
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Irishguy  Offline
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 22,677
Lickskillet, AL
The thing about hardwood (Or any wood for that matter) and concrete, regardless of moisture, is that you have totally different rates of thermal expansion and you are trying to glue one to the other. So as temperature varies, then the two bonded pieces are constantly trying to break that bond formed by the glue.

Personally, I would never try to bond wood to concrete. I would have used a floating floor over a moisture barrier or build a wood sub floor that floated over a moisture barrier and then attached the hardwood floor over that.

Re: Hardwood floor install issue [Re: Joe4majors] #2853263
07/16/19 08:36 PM
07/16/19 08:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,088
Chelsea, AL
straycat Online content
Old Mossy Horns
straycat  Online Content
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,088
Chelsea, AL
There are several things that could have happened.
1. Moisture acted as a bond breaker or didn't allow glue to properly cure. Typically this happens on new concrete or if there is some specific water intrusion. But it can occur on existing slabs if there is a water issue under the slab and improper vapor barrier. I assume certain sealers or other materials could also cause a bond break.
2. Installation errors on glue application
3. Glue flashed over before wood was set in place which will result in flooring that delaminates from the slab.
4. A bad batch of product. A very large home builder has 30+ homes in Liberty Park where wood floors are coming off of slabs. 4 different installers but same glue. This is current for 2019.
2, 3, and 4 can all manifest together in my experience.

The wood that has popped up...is the glue adhered to the wood or the slab the most? Or the same? That answer will tell a great deal.

I can get you a name for a testing lab that was used in the Liberty Park issues. Also there are concrete moisture tests that I or other flooring people can run...test for vapor coming up thru the slab.

Humidity...what is the level? Any idea why it's high? Any wall leaks in basement...downstairs den?

Last edited by straycat; 07/16/19 08:41 PM.

"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever." Isaiah 40:8

"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt.� Samuel Adams
Re: Hardwood floor install issue [Re: straycat] #2853362
07/16/19 10:31 PM
07/16/19 10:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,952
Molino, FL
auburn17 Offline
8 point
auburn17  Offline
8 point
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,952
Molino, FL
Not enough details here to really tell, but it could be as simple as poor slab prep before the glue was put down.

Re: Hardwood floor install issue [Re: Joe4majors] #2853424
07/17/19 02:56 AM
07/17/19 02:56 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,546
Sylacauga
CAL Offline
14 point
CAL  Offline
14 point
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,546
Sylacauga
Basement and hardwood = no bueno

Re: Hardwood floor install issue [Re: Joe4majors] #2853446
07/17/19 05:42 AM
07/17/19 05:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,700
Pisgah, AL
bowtarist Offline
THE Octopus
bowtarist  Offline
THE Octopus
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,700
Pisgah, AL
Is it the traditional 3/4" stuff?


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