SBR question

If it's just gonna set in the house is it worth going through the trouble of getting one

Is it illegal to own just the upper for the SBR.

Say a guy owned a AR rifle and owned a SBR upper that was not in use , is that illegal

As long as you never pin the upper to a rifle lower it’s perfectly legal to own a pistol length upper. It’s a tad easier to just buy or build a pistol lower though so you can legally use a short upper without a stamp.?

Thanks

Just get a SBA3 or 4 stock and it will be legal!

For now anyway

Not really.

If the existing lower was bought as a "rifle", it can never LEGALLY be converted to a pistol. There is a piece of paper out there where it was bought originally that will incriminate you if a problem ever arises.

It's very cheap to buy a stripped lower, an lpk, and a brace to stay legal with this stuff.

Isn't there so.ething about the overall length. Say it was a 12" barrel and with either a sb3 or 4 brace, if it's over 26" it can't be a pistol? Of the lower was sold as a pistol or just a lower, that is.

Any weapon with a barrel less than 16 permanent inches must be a pistol, registered and stamped SBR or SBS, or a registered AOW. There has been some movement on the AOW classification in the last couple years. 26” Is the ATF accepted length for “concealability”. It will pay the interested party to actually visit a couple sites a
Including a .gov and read and understand the rules.

The 26" overall length rule has more to do with whether you can attach a vertical grip on it, which further determines whether it's a rifle or a pistol.

If you have a pistol that is UNDER 26" in overall length, you cannot legally attach a vertical grip, or it becomes a SBR and requires registering.

If you have a pistol that is OVER 26" in overall length you can legally attach a vertical grip, because according to the ATF, it's no longer concealable as a pistol.

The proper way to measure overall length of a pistol is to remove the brace, and measure from the end of the buffer tube to the muzzle...or muzzle break if it is permanently pinned and welded.

Outside of the vertical grip 26" OAL deal, pistol/rifle comes down to whether the barrel is 16" or not.

You can run a brace on either rifle or pistol...doesn't matter.

You can only *legally* run a stock on a rifle, or registered SBR.

A lower originally sold as a "pistol" or "other" can be converted to a rifle, and back to a pistol later...and back and forth freely...legally. Just as long as you don't pin a "pistol" upper (under 16 permanent inches) on a "rifle" (stocked) lower. It either has to be a pistol, or a rifle. It can never legally be a SBR unless it is registered.

It really makes little sense, but that's the law.

I hope that's clear.

You guys worry to much! When they come, they are coming for everything! So keep your magazines stuffed and your powder dry!

I'm just gonna come up with a 11 1/2" pistol with a brace

I am going to complicate the uncomplicated. I don't think you can legally own a short barrel upper if you don't own a pistol lower. That might not be black and white spelled out in an ATF letter. I don't know the exact wording because I decided to not test those waters from a legal standpoint.

You'd likely be explaining that one to the judge after it cost WAAAAAAAY more to defend yourself than it would have cost to be on the safe side and just buy a pistol lower. I would expect the ATF to charge you first and never give you any benefit of doubt. They typically let you explain things to Judges.

Don't play around with this stuff..... do the oblivious to make sure you are legal. It's not worth the trouble, otherwise IMO.

What he said said....If they can establish intent to pin the short upper on the lower without proper SBR paperwork, you are then guilty of an NFA violation by contructive possession
It's cheaper (counting potential legal costs) and easier to just build out or buy a pistol lower and put the short upper on it and you'll be fine....until August (maybe December) anyway

Can one have a single dedicated pistol lower, pinned or whatever, and multiple pistol uppers?

Yes.

There is really no such thing as a "dedicated pistol lower". If you have a lower with a pistol brace on it, you can freely switch out pistol (or even rifle) uppers and be perfectly legal.

The only things that would make a lower with a pistol brace illegal on it are:

1. If the overall length is under 26" and it has a vertical grip
2. If the lower started out life as a rifle lower.

That is stupid. How would anyone know?

The 4473 when it was originally sold/transferred is 100% irrefutable and tells what the lower began life as. If the serial number gets run, they know immediately.

Dumb? Yep. But, that's the law.

Was thinking the same way


Id. bought just the pistol upper , I could say I just hadn't bought the lower .

BUT , how much would it cost to prove it.

I'm just getting the whole damn deal be done

What if it was a 80% lower..............

To my knowledge, this is one of the reasons to buy a stripped lower and build it out. It started out it's life transgendered. As far as the ATF is concerned it didn't know if it wanted to be a rifle or pistol. You could legally swap back and forth as long as you didn't:

1. If the overall length is under 26" and it has a vertical grip. It becomes an SBR.
2. Put a rifle stock on a pistol upper. That would become a SBR. Any pistol upper has to have a brace vs. stock.

Someone correct me if I am wrong there.

They about to change that , all 80% will be sold with a SN#.

check out bidens last executive orders

You wanting 80% lowers you better be buying them up. All 80% stuff not just ar

80% Lowers can be either just like a stripped lower

I do not see 80% lowers requiring SNs the only thing passed is it is illegal for one who sells 80% lowers can not sell kits as a combo with instructions. If you see anything sooner, please post a link.

Lowers can be sold as "other" also, which is what most of them are if you bought just the stripped lower. Those can also be made into pistols. Also, the serial number of a gun does not get sent to the ATF when a 4473 was done, I would assume it gets sent when the lower was manufactured and given a serial number by the manufacturer. The 4473 is basically just a record of the transaction held by the FFL until the ATF comes and gets them. When a background check is done, it's either for a pistol or long gun. Of course that is how I always understood it. I just did an SBR on a gun I bought as a pistol with an SBA on it from the dealer. It was pretty painless and came back in like 2-3 months.

Aparenlty what I was referring to got stripped out.
The original version basically said any gun built from an 80% lower would have to be serialized within 180 days of passage and any new 80% frames would have to be sold with an SN#.
The problem with having current guns serialized was they were sayig only Licensed manfacturers could serialize them with a SN# assigned to you by the state.
So if you were assigned an SN# then engraved it yourself you would/could be charged as an unlicensed manufacturer.
The problem with having a licensed manufacturer do it is the cost involved. They have to file and pay ITAR taxes on each gun manfactured and I;m sure they'd charge for the serialization too...

Glad to see that got stripped out

gundoc...pm sent

gundoc if I reading you right , then who would buy a %80

Clears throat.