New batf ruling...

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/a...el-rifle-issues-cease-and-desist-letter/

It will be interesting to see if this is the beginning of them going after all braces

Did they explain their reasoning? What makes that particular gun different from other AR pistols?

I'd like to know the reasoning as well. Looks like every other AR pistol.

Just a guess, but the honey badger stock design was (likely) patented as a rifle stock, and not a pistol brace, and merely changing what they designated it didn’t fly once noticed by ATF. The stock is designed a bit differently than the rest of the ‘accessory braces’ that were originally marketed and designed as such.....but?

You know, certain members here get their panties in a twist any time I mention how horrendous a precedent the ATF set when they "reclassified" bump stocks and banned them. They criticized me for having the gall to criticize Trump for instructing them to do so (settle down, I still plan to vote for him in Nov). This right here is why...

with the swipe of a pen by an unelected official, thousands of people will now become felons unless they A) surrender their weapon to the ATF or render it permanently inoperable, or B) buy a $200 tax stamp from the ATF Succumb to the ATF's extortion and register their weapon as an SBR.

If you were one of those naïve imbeciles that said things like "bump stocks are stupid anyway so who cares" or 'it's just a bump stock, they're not coming for other stuff", here's the proof you were wrong. They didn't stop at bump stocks, they won't stop at braces, they won't stop at adjustable/collapsible stocks, they won't stop at "high capacity magazines", they won't stop at semi-auto weapons.

HOLD YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS TO A HIGHER STANDARD

He's right you know.

It's something to do with red tape. I'd probably go with MODUX theory or something similar.

I can't wait for Biden to get elected and then we can all have some real discussion on who's turning what in first. Might get as bad as the Reagan/Bush/Clinton era.

He’s 100% right, but according to our ALdeer Billy Bob Bad ASS Johnnyloco all is in vein. SMDH.

If a company installs an adjustable stock on a pistol but calls it a brace does seem like it might draw extra attention from the BATFE on what is really being sold (pistol or SBR).

Most of the braces can be adjusted for length...doesn't mean they're not still a brace. And the one on that rifle is made by SB Tactical, who is probably the most popular manufacturer of braces. But that's irrelevant. The bigger issue is that the ATF originally gave them the OK to sell it as a pistol brace and said they were good to go. Then they arbitrarily came back and said "nah, nevermind...turn them in, or pay us $200, or we'll come kick your door in, shoot your golden retriever and fine you $10,000 and/or imprison you for 10yrs".

THAT is the issue. The LAW is that braces on pistols are legal. The issue is that the ATF keeps "re-interpreting" their definitions periodically with no rhyme or reason so you are now a felon for owning a bumpstock or that pistol, even though you were 100% legal when you purchased it. If you think THAT is ok, then you're beyond help.

Well said Gomer!
That's what you call "puttin' it down where the goats can get to it"

Yeah you got me Gomer, the ATF never revisits decisions (couldn't find the LAW your mentioned pertaining to the legality of braces as shoulder stocks) as new products are introduced (rightly or not). Maybe the next Congress will actually codify the new technologies into law, because that would make everybody's life easier and what could go wrong there?

Just so we're all clear here........you're a-ok with the ATF giving the "all-clear" to a company to sell a product, then later coming back and saying "we changed our mind, those are illegal now" , and giving you, the purchaser, the options of:

1. surrendering the product, or
2. paying a $200 extortion fee, or
3. going to jail for 10 years and/or paying a $10,000 fine and being labelled a felon

Am I inferring your intent correctly? Because that's essentially what you're saying if you support these actions.

I thought when the ATF issued the "it's ok by us to shoulder a pistol brace" edict 3 years or so ago, that they were relaxing a little. Guess not.

As always it boils down to $$. Everything is kosher AS LONG AS you pony up $200

Am i understanding that some folks don't mind an AGENCY writing LAWS? Been a while since i took civics, but i don't remember that being how it worked?

Exactly! The ATF has flip-flopped multiple times on their interpretation of braces.


Nah, your inferring skills need some work. And I guess my googling skills need some work too because I could not find where the ATF had given approval to Q's pistols.

The problem - whether you can find it via google or not - is Q's pistol is nothing more that a 7" barreled pistol with a proprietary SB Tactical armbrace.
That means all AR pistol owners who assembled their own gun could all be in the same boat tomorrow..
The "sugar weasel" BATFE told them to submit for eval is the same gun with a SB3 brace.

Exactly! Seems like the law is pretty clear on pistols & rifles and the ATF is interpreting braces within the context of those laws and have flip-flopped multiple times since at least 2012 on braces/pistols/SBR's.

I’m for neutering the ATF completely, with regards to tax stamps, suppressors, and definitions/barrel lengths, etc. however, when looking at the Q design, the rubber piece on the end doesn’t seem to be what this is about. It’s the mechanism it’s attached to, which is NOT a typical pistol buffer and upper, at least in appearance....and is the same design their original, patented, RIFLE stock is attached to? Then again, maybe it’s under 26”, as well?

You have to remember: With any government agency, only so much nefariousness is possible within their low competency threshold.

I'll have to take a harder look at it. I wasn't aware of their rifle.
I do know that sugar weasel looks just like a million other AR pistols out there with an SB 3 brace.
The BATFE is still "examining" it

The brace on they QHB looks a lot like the SBPDW, which is a previously approved design. Different, but the same.

Sure, but it depends on their language for any previous stuff......I’m betting that is the stickler....not what it is, but what they SAID it was, on something the ATF took notice of. Just a guess, because I’ve seen the ATF dogs grab that bone before. https://www.liveqordie.com/the-hype...-q-deep-dive-part-1-through-4-july-2018/

My opinion is they should do away with the NFA all together. No reason any of this stuff should be illegal in America.

But it is... and I don't think y'all understand. The ATF makes the rules not the laws. They do whatever they want to do including issuing "rules" a.k.a. letters that say things like this direct quote: "to the extent this ruling may be inconsistent with any prior letter rulings, they are hereby superseded".

Yea. That's right. Simple as that. Just on a Wednesday before lunch.

They will do what they want to do when they want to do it and your 2A "rights" when it comes to potential NFA items are based solely on their interpretation of the rules as they see fit at that exact moment. Not 5 minutes before and not 5 minutes after. If they decide Pistol Braces are are in violation of the NFA, tomorrow, you will either register or turn your brace in. All they have to do is declare any magazine over 10 rounds a destructive device and you will turn them in. They can declare an AR-15 a destructive device and you will turn yours in.

Nothing has changed there in my lifetime. This is how this has always been. Do not mistake the recent leniency at the ATF as anything other than Temporary. You aren't going to argue with them. You aren't going to get around it. Very Dangerous. If Biden gets elected they will go after this stuff and you will wave to me while we are standing in line turning our 1/2 the stuff we own.

You aren't going to be able to do anything about it.

If you are getting butthurt over bump stocks or Honey Badgers, etc. That's great. You should be angry..... but I will add you have no forking clue how bad this could get and how quickly.

If the ATF did some of the things you listed, I would consider them my ENEMY. An agency of unelected beaurocrats should not be allowed to write new mandates without the approval of lawmakers.

Yes, it WILL get bad ugly very quickly and blood will be in the streets.

I do ... I see the slope in front of us and it appears to be covered with owl shucks

You are right, in that none of it should be legal in the U.S.

Assume you mean "illegal".

Yeah, well kinda. I was saying the NFA or gun laws in general restricting the sale or possession of firearms should not be legal.
As in they are unconstitutional and should all be repealed and the BATF dissolved...or at least renamed BAT and drop the "F"

The destructive device classification is what is so scary. They can literally classify anything as a destructive device and confiscate it magazines included.

They have done it before on many occasions. When they want something out in circulation like an AR-15... under a scenario when we have the next mass shooting Biden can instruct the BATF to declare all AR-15's a destructive device......and that's it. They will parade dead children's parents all over CNN calling for Gun Control, get Bill Clinton to tell everyone it's not a big deal he use to duck hunt back in Arkansas and everyone has the right to own a pump shotgun and there they go. And we are toast.

Situation normal though. Been like this my entire life. The difference today is I think the liberals have the balls to follow through with it whereas in the past they didn't have the support. Today I don't think they care. It would not surprise me if Biden didn't put Beto in charge of the BATF or at least have them report up to him.

Guys on Tndeer had this link to a letter for a write in campaign to Pres. Trump.
https://gunowners.org/na10072020/

I tried to fill that letter out through the GOA website and it wouldn't work

EDIT: it didn't work when I tried it from my phone but did just now from a computer

Worked for me through a computer.

A VERY ENLIGHTENING follow-up article....

https://www.ammoland.com/2020/10/ro...adger-before-the-election/#axzz6aKjFt0QO

Yea, that’s a BIG surprise. treasonous bastards

Well, for what it’s worth those stocks suck. I have one on my SBR and I took it off for a regular collapsible stock.

The DOJ has issued a temporary 60 day suspension of the ATF's cease and desist order to allow time to further look into the matter.

Not a "win", but a step in the right direction, I guess. More of a "kick the can down the road" move, IMO.

https://bearingarms.com/cam-e/2020/10/15/atf-order-honey-badger-pistol/

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/...se-a-possible-reason-for-classification/

Any firearm or part can be considered a "destructive device". So can a knife, or a hammer, or a vehicle. They should give a better explanation and reason than that. There has to be more to this than meets the eye. Sounds political.

IMO...it is political. Even the 60 day suspension. Why a 60 day suspension? Because we'll know who our leaders are at that point. That's why I said it's a kick the can down the road move.