AR Self Defense Ammo

We recently had some vehicle burglaries in my neighborhood. After checking our video surveillance system, the thug with gun in hand checked my vehicle for unlocked doors and shined a flashlight inside looking for valuables. Fortunately nothing was stolen. I thought to myself, this person could have targeted my home and I haven't fired my home defense AR in over two years. So, Sunday I took it to the range and the second round was a MISFIRE. Scary. I have always used Remington UMS 55 grain and have never had an issue. I want to upgrade my ammo in all of the loaded mags I keep in the house. I guy at work suggested Federal HST. What rounds do you keep in your first response mags?

Are you sure it's the ammo? Did you perhaps install a trigger that uses under powered FP springs?

Speer Gold Dot in pistol and rifle.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/speer-223-remington-64gr-gold-dot-ammunition-20rds-24448.html

Yup that speer is a great round and an even better price.

No. The rifle is stock. The rest of the rounds went bang. I reloaded the misfire with the same result.

There are much better choices for home defense than an AR 15. A pistol or a shotgun would be an even better choice. I keep both in my bedroom, loaded and ready.

Bullets from an AR 15 will travel through many walls in a house before stopping. Much greater chance of hitting something or somebody you don't want to shoot.

Your opinion is noted. We have pistols in the bedroom too but a shotgun is too heavy for the wife. Thanks for your response.

I have to agree with the shotgun opinion. A 20 ga Franchi affinity is just under 6 lbs and lighter than most AR's unless you have one specially built with carbon lower.

AR is fine if you live in the country and by yourself but it will go through your wall and into the neighbor's house or all the way through your house and into a kids room and still exit into the neighbor's house.

Just something to think about.

In the AR, the 64gr gold dot is what I would choose. And the PSA price is great. I've got 6 mags loaded up in a 5.11 bail out bag along with first aid supplies in case I need to boogie. Inside the house the shotgun reigns supreme however, IMO.

In any regard, the best gun to have in a home defense situation is one that's loaded and in your hands.

The AR's I have handled are not lightweight weapons. Like RH said, there are some good lightweight shotguns, and a 20 GA would be much better than a 12 GA for a woman.

IMHO, if using an AR 15 for home defense I would use a highly frangible, lightweight varmint bullet. These should fragment easily upon impacting hard surfaces and not pass through multiple walls putting unseen people in danger. Just a theory of mine.

50gr vmax would be practical in this situation, but my 12ga reigns supreme and is first in line if a situation were to come into play.

x2

a year or so ago these guys went on and on about a shotgun being best for home defense. I didnt agree with them. I felt like i shot enough with a pistol that it would serve me better. Well a few months later i spined a deer, walked up to him and shot him with pistol from 6 feet away. A couple of minuts later he was still moving shot him 2 more times. Only found 2 pistol rounds in him. AAfter that went and got a pistol grip shotgun for me, and broke out the pump 20 gauge for the wife for home defense.

Dang goodman, I had the same situation happen to me except it was a gut shot deer that had been hit with the bow. My cousin missed a headshot and it went straight through the ears causing it to run. It ran out about 15-20 yards and one shot from the 45 acp and it folded like a sack of bricks.

You can look up the statistics but 80 something percent of pistol shot victims survive. Clint Smith says that a pistol is only good for fighting your way to your rifle. Inside a house distance a shotgun is just like a rifle except that it's not as likely to penetrate several walls and kill your kids or your neighbors.

You can watch videos all day where people are shot several times with a pistol and don't go down right away. That just don't happen with a high powered rifle or a load of #1 buck at room distance.

Great conversation guys. We both have handguns in the nightstands but I've often thought about putting together a home defense shotgun. I know from shooting clays that it will have to be a 20 gauge, the wife won't shoot a 12, but which one? What do y'all recommend?

A pistol is a good thing to bring to a knife fight.

That's about it.

The best firearm for CQB is a shotgun loaded with buckshot without a doubt. The effectiveness is without question.

You don't need anything fancy, Mossberg/Winchester/Weatherby all make a good short one in 20ga. Probably others.

A tactical pump with an extended mag and a flashlight mounted would be great,but even your dove and squirrel gun and a flashlight taped to it would work in a pinch.

Actually, a gun she is familiar with would be a lot better than one she isn't. In other words,an auto that she sometimes shoots might be better than a great tactical pump that she doesn't know how to operate.

Since we currently don't have one, is there a short barrel 20 auto that you'd recommend?

I know you guys are all about the shotguns. But let's think about it for a minute. Yes they pack a hard punch at close distances. But if your looking for spread out of a shotgun from across the room. It ain't gonna happen. Pattern most shotguns at 10-20 feet (most rooms are around this size) they have a pattern of a baseball(guessing) I'm just saying. Pray and spray at 20 feet is not gonna happen in an enclosed space.

Like someone said earlier. The best gun is one you have in your hands and you are proficient with. It's not about ballistics more than is shot placement. Dead is dead.

My HD shotgun is a FNH mil&police pump 12ga. It has an 18" ported barrel and prints a circle of 00buck about 9" across at 25 feet. It has a RMR and a light, point and shoot, you don't really even have to aim. The porting makes it unpleasant to shoot with ear protection and rings the left ear for a week without(outside). My thought process is; if someone is in my home uninvited, past the dogs, and didn't make an exit when they heard the shotgun being racked, then we are way past worrying about hearing damage and closing in on not caring about penetration of exterior walls. I can handle a shotty in a half awake stupor much better than I can manipulate and aim a pistol.
But, anything is better than nothing.

I don't know of a good inexpensive one. The Franchi Affinity is great as is a Benelli but both are pricey. Stoeger might have a cheap one.

I mostly agree. I said earlier that inside a house a shotgun is basically a rifle. What I meant is that it won't spread all across the room.You still have to aim. The advantage is lessened secondary penetration into areas of the house occupied by family members or through the wall into the neighbors house.

Why would you use buckshot? It would penetrate walls too good. I would shoot birdshot as close as you could be to target, it would be just coming out of the wadding. This would be unlikely to go thru other things. I have killed most everything there is with birdshot. The other part is doctors are less likely to find all of it before bleeding out time.

I would probably opt for a turkey load of #4 shot or #1 Buck in the house. I would tend to agree that 00,or 000 might penetrate more than I would want.

Very light bird shot can loose it's power pretty fast. I've seen it not penetrate tin at hall length if there is any angle on it. You have to think that in case of a near miss even if a few pellets hit the target you want them to do some damage. An intruder may be wearing a heavy coat or you might get him as he is moving or turning. I want at least #4 high brass.

You can get a Mossberg 500 pretty cheap.

Yep,and might be better than a cheap autoloader,but everyone who might use it needs to shoot it some to know to pump it.

Load it with what you want... I prefer #4 Buck myself. I want mine to shoot through the walls. If bullets start flying I hope he is stupid enough to hide behind a corner. Should be over quick. I'll shoot the house to pieces if that's what it takes. I don't intend on losing.

Not everyone wants a shotgun and that's fine but the advantage is in knock down power. Not much spread = Holes big enough you can stick your fist through. You shoot someone with a shotgun and chances are the fight is over. You shoot someone with a Pistol you had better be prepared to continue to return fire or find cover and wait for them to leave or bleed out. That's the difference.

Corbon urban response for the Ar folks.Turkey loads for the shotgun folks.Spare magazines training and friends with pistols for the pistol folks.

Shooting a deer is no comparison to shooting a human unless they're all jacked up on pcp. I'll keep my pistols for home defense

the comparison is, I missed the deer with the pistol. I'm pretty good with a pistol too. I go to the range at least 4 times a year and shoot hundreds rounds through multiple pistols. Even practice a 40-50 yard shots as well. But some how missed the deer at 5 yard laying on the ground. Adrenaline is a mofo.

Never seen a deer jacked up on PCP get shot so I can't speak to that.

You're right there is no comparison.... either way deer don't shoot back.

If it were legal throwing a couple three hand grenades down the hallway would be my go-to for home defense. I'd rather blow up the living room than get in a shootout with anything. Much less a pistol.

I've shot a few rutting bucks that acted like they were on PCP.

What's your reasoning in using the pistol over a shotgun or rifle? I understand it it's all you got but otherwise I don't.

I used to think that an ar was not a good home defense weapon due to over penetration as well. That's actually not the case at all. Less penetration than buckshot or a 9mm and much more effective as a defense weapon.

Winchester 64 grain jacketed soft point. To answer the OP's question.

How do you figure that? You must be using varmint ammo if that's the case. Most of my AR ammo will penetrate steel plate. Every 556 round I own will penetrate a heck of a lot more than any 9mm or buckshot.I haven't experimented with 223 varmint ammo though which may be a good option.

Research - it's time consuming and tedious but really pays dividends when done correctly.

These are both articles but they have links to the actual research if you would like to read it (of course I read every word of it because I'm a nerd like that). The first is a compilation of research that is truly eye opening, the second is the opinion of one of the best combat personnel in the world - special ops Sgt./Maj. Kyle E. Lamb (retired).

http://preparedgunowners.com/2016/07/14/...ration-testing/

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/5/26/the-ar-for-home-defense-one-experts-opinion

Research all you want Jeno. They are skewing the data to get the results they want. I've got real world experience to back it up. I've got steel plates with hundreds of pistol rounds bounced off them pierced with holes from 556.

Anytime you want you can come over and we will stack up some 2X6 and sheet rock and I will guarantee a 556 will penetrate more every time than a 9mm 45 auto, or load of buckshot from 20 feet.

I didn't read every bit of the second article, but a key to the first was that they said hollow point or lead 556. You go nearly anywhere and the most common 556 you see are FMJ. You won't see any lead or hollow point 556 unless it's a big store or you special order it. So what it amounts to is that if you are talking about the most commonly used ammo than their article is bunk. If however you want to come to the conclusion they reached ,you can find some ammo that will support what they wanted to find.They simply did it to gain support for the AR as a viable home defense weapon.

Just to be clear buddy,I want everyone to own an AR,or a dozen. I want you to defend your home with overwhelming devastating,firepower,that will give an intruder a heart attack even if you miss. I just don't want you to kill your kids or your neighbors while defending yourself.

fmj actually penetrates less than buckshot and pistols too.

It's not skewed research - it's the FBI doing it to see if they are going to have higher liability inside buildings.

That's why you don't see mp5s all over the place any more with agencies that have nearly unlimited budgets. They've all gone to .223 powered carbines or short rifles.

You can do the testing yourself - I would have if I hadn't found overwhelming evidence to support my claims.

The theory behind the actual performance is that the bullet weight is so much less that it loses it's power much faster than a pistol or a round of buckshot when it encounters resistance.

Projectiles from all firearms, regardless of what style or type, can over penetrated in a house and can potentially travel outside. I have seen the aftermath of a 9mm negligent discharge in someone's house. It went through two walls, a heavily wooded entertainment center, two pillows, a leather couch, a double paned window and a trash can outside. The bullet was never recovered. There is always a risk of over penetration (unless you're shooting bean bags). Everyone has a theory and reasons that justify their decision. This has been a healthy debate and one which all will never agree.

I got a $100 bill anytime you want to bring your pistol. That's all I'm saying. It it penetrates farther than my AR you get the $100. You need to put up a $100 too though.

The research I'm quoting is done by bean counters who are concerned with liability - not someone who is selling ar's. They had no dog in the race, it's not even a race to them.

I was as surprised as you are - believe me. I used to hold the same view you do. It's okay - we're all wrong at some point.

The time it would take to set up and do the testing would be worth a whole lot more than a bill. I'm not interested in taking your money though. Just performance and safety. I put away both of my tactical shotguns.

Ok Geno,I've actually shot stuff with an AR and seen it penetrate a lot farther than any pistol,but you keep on researching.

I've shot pretty much everything there is to shoot with an ar. I've built and owned over a dozen since around 1986. I've been through over ten thousand rounds of everything from ball to tracers as a civilian. I shot a ton of rounds through them in the military.

H&R 12ga Pump. $165. (Decent quality Rem 870 clone)

Blackhawk Adjustable Stock $47.

Basically makes a Rem 870 clone with an stock similar to an AR for control and adjustable draw.

I have mine loaded with #4 buckshot and it's devastating. I've shot plastic bottles wrapped with 2 layers of denim and it still makes a mess.

Fort Scott

To the op, I keep 55gr Hornady SP loaded in two 30 round mags.

As long as it's any pistol...I might be up for that bet

Haha! Avenged will take your munny!

Surplus m193 fragments on impact and is cheap compared to what youd pay for soft points or premium ammo its been working for the military for dozens of years it should work on a criminal. Its really not going to matter if you shoot someone with anything moving 3200 ftps its going to put them down

Can I use any ammo too?

You use black tips and it's not a contest any more