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TSS

Posted By: Wade

TSS - 12/05/12 07:17 PM

I've seen you guys talk about this shot a lot. I know you have to handload the stuff, but, is there any site to buy the shells already loaded. I don't handload.
Posted By: n2deer

Re: TSS - 12/05/12 07:18 PM

No
Posted By: Solo

Re: TSS - 12/05/12 07:22 PM

That is the only drawback to TSS, nothing is commercially produced.

That is the only reason I quit shooting TSS... I don't have time for another hobby, like reloading.

Hevi-13 has been the next best thing that I've found, then Nitro's. I ordered Nitro's for 5 or 6 years, then got tired of it. I can get the Hevi-13's off the shelf at my local store.
Posted By: BrentM

Re: TSS - 12/05/12 08:31 PM

Gotta handload it, but a cheap scale and a roll crimping tool is all that you must have to be able to do it so it's really not that big a deal to do enough to shoot a few shells a year
Posted By: n2deer

Re: TSS - 12/05/12 08:59 PM

I dont make a hobby out of it.

I load what i need and thats it. Stuffs to high to play around with and waste.
Posted By: Solo

Re: TSS - 12/05/12 10:40 PM

I know, but I have tendency to go overboard at times.
Posted By: n2deer

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 12:46 AM

I think there are several of us that do that in one way or another.
Posted By: foldemup

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 02:31 AM

Originally Posted By: BrentM
Gotta handload it, but a cheap scale and a roll crimping tool is all that you must have to be able to do it so it's really not that big a deal to do enough to shoot a few shells a year


The only big deal is I am slow as chit at loading them. I'm obsessed with measuring everything EXACTLY the same, and after 2 hours of using tweezers to pick up individual flakes of gun powder, TSS, and buffer, I'm just about ready to go nuts! (But I do like my 100 yard turkey shooter grin)
Posted By: YEKRUT

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 02:39 AM

Which one of yall want to load me some up for this year. I will pay you for it all. I ain't got time to do anything else right now.
Posted By: 3toe

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 02:49 AM

Originally Posted By: YEKRUT
Which one of yall want to load me some up for this year. I will pay you for it all. I ain't got time to do anything else right now.


Thought you were a Nitro disciple?
Posted By: YEKRUT

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 03:00 AM

Originally Posted By: 3toe
Originally Posted By: YEKRUT
Which one of yall want to load me some up for this year. I will pay you for it all. I ain't got time to do anything else right now.


Thought you were a Nitro disciple?


I am, still got about 25 of them left. I need something for long shots on field birds. smile
Posted By: BrentM

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 03:11 AM

I still have those Megaweights I'll sell you if you want them by the way. They're the next best thing I've seen to TSS
Posted By: YEKRUT

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 03:16 AM

Yeah ill try them Brent, pm me what you've got and what you want for them.
Posted By: bill

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 04:12 AM

How far can you realistically expect them to be lethal if we were talking a 3" gun?
Posted By: YEKRUT

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 04:23 AM

[quote=bill]How far can you realistically expect them to be lethal if we were talking a 3" gun?

How far you need to shoot? They are probably lethal farther than you can keep a consistent pattern and some of these guys are getting good patterns way on out there.
Posted By: BrentM

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 04:23 AM

PCP or Hawglips would know alot better than me bill, but just guessing if a guy was shooting a little bigger shot like #7's and found the right choke, he could probably come up with something that would have enough pattern density to kill a turkey at 90-100 yards. The energy would be there at a hundred no doubt.
A full house load of straight 8's would probably kill a turkey pretty consistently at 75-80 yards.
I'm shooting a 20 gauge 1 5/8 oz load with one oz 9's and 5/8 oz 8's and though I've never shot at one that far, I'd say it would wad one up at 60 all day long.

This is just a guess on my part, but I'm probably pretty close and honestly probably leaning towards the conservative side. Preacher or especially Hawglips probably has some actual data to back up their theories.
Posted By: YEKRUT

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 04:26 AM

From what I have read BrentM is right in the ball park. The stuff just keeps on keeping on.
Posted By: bill

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 04:28 AM

How far do I need to shoot? The way I call I'd say 3 or 400 yards should do the trick.

I was just wondering if they were really that much better than the heavy 13 and mega weights in performance.
Posted By: bill

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 04:32 AM

Brentm, that is crazy. Those things are powerful enough to make me look like a decent turkey hunter. By the last week of the season , last year, I would have given a hundred a shell for one that would have killed at those distances.
Posted By: poorcountrypreacher

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 04:39 AM

You be the judge - here's a 40 yard pattern with tss #8, a 2.25 oz load.



There's about 560 shot in the shell, and 400 of them are in the 10" circle at 40 yds. Computer programs say it has enough penetration power to kill one over 100 yds. I'm not sure at what range it would run out of pattern density for sure kills, but I'd bet one would be in serious danger at 90 yards. The load I hunt with only puts about 220-240 in the 10" circle at 40, and it will still hold about 75 hits at 75 yds.

I'm in no way advocating shooting turkeys at ranges like this. I do think a 100 yd load would be possible with some serious pattern work and the right load, gun and choke. I don't intend to do it. Trying to get a 20 gauge to work right now. I do know of quite a few kills made over 70 yds.

But Wade, you need to stick to lead. Possum Creek hunters should want the turkey within 25 yds before shooting. smile
Posted By: BrentM

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 05:21 AM

seems like for every gram per cc you gain the performance of the shell increases dramatically.
I think hevi-13's and the hevishot Nitro's are around 12g/cc
Nitro Megaweights are a little over 13g/cc
Federal Heavyweight is 15g/cc.....It is awesome for a factory shell if you can get your gun to shoot it
TSS is all the way up there at 18g/cc. The way Hal explained it to me is that a #9 TSS pellet has the same lethal energy as a #4 lead pellet or a #5 hevishot.
What really blew my mind is when he told me that a 7/8 oz dove load of #9 TSS would have about the same firepower as the 2 1/4 oz 3 1/2" Hevi 13 5's that I used to shoot.
Posted By: Beadlescomb

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 05:46 AM

I bet that would be a nasty duck load? How much is it costing y'all to load per shell
Posted By: BrentM

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 06:17 AM

Too much for ducks. I tried to run some numbers a while back but it wasn't gonna work. Only thing you might could do would be something like adding a quarter ounce of 9's in a steel duplex load or something like that. That would still be something like 86 cents a shell just for the TSS content though.
You would just about have to stick with hevishot if you were gonna load up something for ducks
Posted By: hawglips

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 03:11 PM

Originally Posted By: bill
How far can you realistically expect them to be lethal if we were talking a 3" gun?


The longest document kill I know of was a guy who shot a bird at about 35 yds, and then noticed way back in the field there was an awful lot of movement. He quickly saw that it was another tom flopping that he didn't know was back there. He ranged it at 110 yds. He was using #6s, which is way too big for turkeys. I believe it wouldn't be hard to put together a bonafide 100 yard load combo if one set out to do it, probably with #7-1/2s or maybe #7s... I know of turkeys killed at 90, 80, 75, etc. Most were with #9 shot, and guys just flat badly miscalculated the distance, which is easy to do once you get out to what you think is 55 or 60 yds. The farthest I know of with the 20 gauge is 79 lasered yards. The 90 yard birds were with a 2-3/4" 1-5/8 oz of TSS 9x7s -- none hit the turkeys in the head and neck -- all went in through the back.

Coyotes killed with #9s at up to 50 yds are also reported. I shot one at 42 yds with a 2 oz load of 9x8s once. She was quartering away and I aimed at her rib cage. She twirled around 3 times nipping at her side, and then fell over and died right there. There was no visible evidence of entry or exit holes, but she was bleeding from her nostrils and rectum.

But I don't recommend setting out to take long shots with it because it's so easy to misjudge distance the farther out you go. It does give you plenty of error cushion, and allows you to tote smaller bored guns while actually increasing your combo's lethality.

It has changed the way I set up on a turkey somewhat, if I'm using the 12 or 20 gauge. I always like to set up so that the turkey is in range when I see him, and he me. But now I don't have to be so careful about how I set up -- just a quick glance around and I know I'm good. Even with the 28 gauge, I now have a 55-60 yd turkey gun. And with the .410 a bonafide 40 yd gun.
Posted By: 3toe

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 03:22 PM

Hal, what kind of pattern spread do the 9's give at 70, 80, 90 yds? Anyone ever patterned one on a board at those ranges? Are all the shot accounted for on the board or is it so wide you could 3 turkeys if they were all standing beside each other?

Not having fooled around with TSS I am just curious how a pattern holds together at thos distances.
Posted By: poorcountrypreacher

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 03:33 PM

I've fired one shot at 65 and one shot at 75 just to see what it would do. At 65, it seems like it had about 120 hits in the 10" circle. I know it was better than factory #4 would do at 40. At 75, the number had dropped to 75 hits. Although its a good idea to have 100 in the pattern you call your max range, I am confident that 75 of these pellets will kill him every time. I would consider that the max range.

And of course I was just measuring the center of the pattern. It would most definitely kill all 3 turkeys if they were standing there together.

Hal has tested way more than I have; he might be able to give a more detailed answer.
Posted By: hawglips

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 03:46 PM

Originally Posted By: 3toe
Hal, what kind of pattern spread do the 9's give at 70, 80, 90 yds? Anyone ever patterned one on a board at those ranges? Are all the shot accounted for on the board or is it so wide you could 3 turkeys if they were all standing beside each other?

Not having fooled around with TSS I am just curious how a pattern holds together at thos distances.


I've never known anyone to pattern any at 90 yds. But I have gone out to 80.

Here are routine patterns out of my Moss 500 with 2 oz 9x8s:

40 yds


50 yds


60 yds


70 yds


80 yds


Here are a couple 20 ga patterns, 1-7/16 oz of 9s. You can see why 60 yds, even with the 20 gauge, is a chip shot:

40 yds


50 yds


60 yds


But it's harder to put the core of your pattern on a bird at long distances than most people figure, IMO. Can you can put it where you want it -- that's the main question out to 70+ yds.
Posted By: hawglips

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 03:57 PM

The rule of thumb with TSS is, if you take your average 40 yd 10" count, you can figure your count in 10 yard increments farther, simply by multiplying by .7.

So, say my 40 yd count is 283, then 283 x .7 = 198 to get my 50 yd count. Then multiply 198 x .7 to get your 60 yd count = 139, etc.

You can see it works out pretty close with my acutal patterns above.
Posted By: poorcountrypreacher

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 04:05 PM

Originally Posted By: hawglips
The rule of thumb with TSS is, if you take your average 40 yd 10" count, you can figure your count in 10 yard increments farther, simply by multiplying by .7.

So, say my 40 yd count is 283, then 283 x .7 = 198 to get my 50 yd count. Then multiply 198 x .7 to get your 60 yd count = 139, etc.

You can see it works out pretty close with my acutal patterns above.


Great info! I've never seen your ".7" rule before. I think I'm getting closer to .75 with my straight 8 load in the 3.5" shell. However, I haven't tested enough at long range to really prove that and it may well be closer to .7.
Posted By: hawglips

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 04:09 PM

That's a good point Steve. 8s tend to pattern a little tighter than 9s, and 7s than 8s, etc.
Posted By: Bamarich2

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 04:18 PM

With that kind of performance, you guys have me sold on the load. I've never handloaded in the past... but if I can get this kind of results, I'm willing to learn. What does a guy like me need to do to get started? Thanks.
Posted By: hawglips

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 04:26 PM

It's about $100 investment for the equipment needed, to roll crimp the shells:

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/BPI-BallistiScale-1500-Digital-Scale/productinfo/6880300/

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Hull-Vise-select-size-in-Options/productinfo/VISE/

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Original-Roll-Crimping-Tool-12ga/productinfo/ROLL12/

The shot can be bought at Tungsten Spheres, or usually it's cheaper to get it from me if I have some on hand. Plus I give load data/instructions to whoever gets shot from me. Then you've got to get the components for the shell(s) you want to load up.

And I think it's actually a lot of fun to roll your own. You get to enjoy the shell twice when you shoot what you loaded up yourself.

Posted By: 3toe

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 04:28 PM

Nice patterns Hal. Looks like dirt naps all around.
Posted By: poorcountrypreacher

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 05:45 PM

If you have a drill press, you can get by without the hull vice. Then the only tools to buy are scales and the crimping tool. I have an el cheapo drill press that I bought about 20 years ago and it works just fine. Took me 3 or 4 shells to learn to do it perfectly, but even my first attempt shot just fine.

For those that say they don't have time - it takes maybe 2 hours to load up all the shells you will need for a turkey season. And you will have shells that are vastly superior to anything you can buy.

Not mentioning any names, but only somebody who was firmly under the thumb of his wife wouldn't have 2 hours available to get ready for turkey season. wink

edit: Also, Hal is not trying to make a profit and doesn't promote his shot and loads, so I will do it for him. If you wanta get in the tss loading business, get your shot and load data from him. There is nobody else alive that knows as much about tss turkey loads as Hal does.
Posted By: Basser69

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 06:56 PM

I am shooting TSS in some 2 oz and 1 3/4 oz 12ga. loads that were given to me by a friend and all I can say is that there is NOTHING on the market even close to the killing power of TSS. I will be a shot shell handloader before turkey season starts.
Posted By: Wade

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 07:21 PM

Thanks guys!

PCP: Dang turkeys were squawking something awful the other morning where y'all were squirrel hunting that afternoon. Somebody's got to rid the landscape of those feathered beast. wink
Posted By: n2deer

Re: TSS - 12/06/12 10:40 PM

Originally Posted By: poorcountrypreacher
If you have a drill press, you can get by without the hull vice. Then the only tools to buy are scales and the crimping tool. I have an el cheapo drill press that I bought about 20 years ago and it works just fine. Took me 3 or 4 shells to learn to do it perfectly, but even my first attempt shot just fine.

For those that say they don't have time - it takes maybe 2 hours to load up all the shells you will need for a turkey season. And you will have shells that are vastly superior to anything you can buy.

Not mentioning any names, but only somebody who was firmly under the thumb of his wife wouldn't have 2 hours available to get ready for turkey season. wink

edit: Also, Hal is not trying to make a profit and doesn't promote his shot and loads, so I will do it for him. If you wanta get in the tss loading business, get your shot and load data from him. There is nobody else alive that knows as much about tss turkey loads as Hal does.


I agree Steve, I dont put alot of time into it at all. I take what Hal tells me. Buy the components,sit down and load them, and make sure they are sighted in.

I dont play around with chokes much because the patterns are better than anything else out there and I honest believe that alot of people are getting the to tight. Like I said before.

I believe they will kill a turkey every time at 60. Seems like a little further and they start dropping and thats not easy to account for.
Posted By: poorcountrypreacher

Re: TSS - 12/07/12 10:10 PM

Originally Posted By: Wade
Thanks guys!

PCP: Dang turkeys were squawking something awful the other morning where y'all were squirrel hunting that afternoon. Somebody's got to rid the landscape of those feathered beast. wink


I hope we didn't mess up your deer hunt that afternoon. It was too hot for me to go deer hunting that day, so carried the dogs out. Wish I had know you were down, woulda tried to talk you unto going with us.

It's way too hot to deer hunt today, but I'm out here wasting time anyway. Wish I had the dogs with me.
Posted By: jeffpike83

Re: TSS - 12/07/12 11:24 PM

what web site do yall use to get your tss supply
Posted By: Dixiepatriot

Re: TSS - 12/07/12 11:42 PM

I've had a hard time believing a #9 shot made out of anything has enough energy to kill a bird at 70 yards and I worry about that stuff tearing up my barrel but yall have just about got me wanting to try this stuff out.
What kind of wads and hulls yall using?
Posted By: n2deer

Re: TSS - 12/07/12 11:42 PM

Originally Posted By: jeffpike83
what web site do yall use to get your tss supply


Only place im aware of to get 18g shot is Hal.

I and probably most reloading 18g shot is buying there reloading components from ballistic products or precision reloading.
Posted By: poorcountrypreacher

Re: TSS - 12/08/12 01:17 AM

Originally Posted By: Dixiepatriot
I've had a hard time believing a #9 shot made out of anything has enough energy to kill a bird at 70 yards and I worry about that stuff tearing up my barrel but yall have just about got me wanting to try this stuff out.
What kind of wads and hulls yall using?


I thought that too when I started using it 5 yrs ago, so I decided to use #8 shot and put it in a 3.5" hull and get the speed up to 1250 fps.

It was all a waste of time and money. If had been smart, I would have just used Hal's original 3" load and #9 shot. Not that my loads are no good, they are just overkill.

You used to be able to buy the shot over the phone from a guy in ok, but he went out of business. Hal is the only source I know of now, and he also has many lab-tested recipes. Don't worry about your barrel, just follow the recipe and it will be fine.
Posted By: n2deer

Re: TSS - 12/08/12 01:27 AM

Only real advice i can give is if you want to try it dont wait and want to get your shot the month before season.

I imagine orders are starting to pick up.
Posted By: BrentM

Re: TSS - 12/08/12 03:35 AM

Don't worry about your barrel either. Hal's recipes call for the shot to be placed in a protective wrap to make sure there won't be any damage.
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