Let's Discuss Predators....

So after doing some extensive reading over the last several days to confirm what I already knew was a problem, I thought I would share what I have found. I hope those that are truly concerned with their turkey population will use this too educate and motivate yourself to do something to help your turkeys moving forward. I have found numerous articles based off science/research that are pointing to a major contributor to the declining turkey population. I will post a few of these articles in this thread if y'all care to to read them. Specifically the MS MDWFP article shows a 40% to 60% nest failure solely from nest predators. If I recall, Dr. Turkey said his research was showing 80% nest failure, but failed to specially identify the cause. Let's say the MS MDWFP numbers are accurate based off their research, the lowest of their numbers (40%) show's at least half at a minimum of Dr. Turkey's 80% nest failure research is due to nest predators. On the high end of MDWP numbers (60%) that accounts for nearly a 3rd of Dr. Turkey's 80% of nest failure. With that said, I am at a loss of why this isn't be shared far and wide?? From what I have read, it's not popular within the general public for starters, it's not cost/time productive and it's not effective long term. Now I don't know what y'all think, but if I can reduce the risk by any amount that is one less predator I have to worry about eating a turkey egg for that laying period. Yeah, I will have to continue my trapping and annual removal, but I don't see any negatives to doing that. As I have said, it's not easy, it's gonna take up some of your time and it's gonna cost you some money. I can tell you fro a fact it does make a difference even on a small scale. For those that aren't already trapping I encourage each of you to do something to help your turkeys moving forward as the research shows it's a significant problem. I also encourage everyone to read these links posted below if you want some true facts and not some top secret research that only a select few are privileged to see.

https://www.mdwfp.com/wildlife-hunt...blame-predators-for-poor-turkey-habitat/

https://www.mossyoak.com/our-obsession/blogs/predator/war-with-turkey-predators

https://www.nwtf.org/hunt/article/life-turkey-nest

https://www.nwtf.org/conservation/article/wild-turkeys-predators-problem


Now let's discuss habitat. I currently hunt a region of the state and property that you would be hard pressed to fill 20 log trucks with mature hardwoods on nearly 6000 acres. We do not have any hardwood to speak of. Our property is dominated by pine trees and as far as I know it has been like that for a long time. What we do have going for us is most of our timber is in the thinning stages and on a rotational burn program. The patch work burning before nesting is what makes the difference for us I suppose. We also plant clover in every single one of our food plots every year. There are some great annual varieties out now that have been strong fall and spring producers for us (Balasana Fixation & Frosty Berseem). We have chosen these varieties as our soil is very poor and it will not support the long term annual varieties through the heat of the summer. I simply find it hard to believe that pine plantations if managed properly will not support a thriving turkey population. The key words in that statement is (managed properly) as I am fully aware of what we have is not being done on a good majority of the pine plantations in our state. Actually I can name several timber companies that do not burn a percentage of their property and never have that I am aware of. That is a problem when it comes to improving habitat. So with that said, as land lessors our hands are tied when it comes to habitat improvements on a larger scale. There are things that can be done, but fire is relatively cheap when compared to the other things. I still encourage everyone to do a little project or two each year specifically tailored to helping your turkeys. There is some pretty good articles on line that can give you ideas of where to start, what to do and what not to do. Lastly if you lease or own private land reach out to the resources available and encourage your land owner to burn small sections annually. There is help available out there for these land owners if sought out. It might take you sitting down with the owner and spelling out the benefits while showing them the help that's available. It might not get you anywhere but you can at least say at the end of the day you put fourth the effort.

In closing it will be up to us individuals that lease and own private land to turn the tide. As many of us know the states current philosophy/vision has very little to due with managing the resources and wildlife. It's all about them $$$$$

If there is a decline in out turkey population I would definitely say that it’s direct impact of predators
I’m into my third property management for predators and in all three I’ve seen a large increase in turkeys after the third year
As you stated it takes time and money to do this and I’ll add that the benefits are worth the cost
I lived in a area where the state took over the surrounding property to make a management area
It did not take long to see the turkey population decline and predators increase
One of the worst nest predators we have now is not just coons but hogs are very hard on them

I don't know if any of the current research has broken any new ground on predation, but they were using similar statistics when I was at Auburn back in the 70s. I think that since the reintroduction efforts that started in the 50s we have known that most eggs don't hatch, and most poults don't survive long enough to fly. So those ideas are not new; it's always been that way and it's just normal for the wild turkey. It could be that the lack of trapping has made it worse, but I think that would be hard to prove.

I am in favor of eliminating every predator possible and have always done that, but I think it's more important to have habitat that allows them to hide from the predators. They need habitat for every stage of their development, and I think that the ideal habitat for nests and poults is what many places lack. I don't think we really know what is ideal. I wish the research would focus on understanding that, but I don't think any does. People will give you educated guesses on what is ideal, but I don't think this has been explored enough.

According to our neighbor who was a member of the hunting club that had our property before us, no one he knew of ever trapped anything on our place. We dang sure haven’t. I see signs of critters and the only thing we notice is we are seeing more bobcats, which we eliminated most that have been seen. Not saying predators aren’t our problem but I think it’s the smallest part of our problem. Our neighbor is always telling us about all the turkeys our place has always had and how he was the only one who ever hunted them in the old club. We saw what he was talking about the first 3-4 years we had this place. He’s in agreement with most that the loss of the big timber around us had the most impact on the population in our area.

A pine plantation cleaned up and seeded thick in arrowleaf clover would be absolute dynamite for turkey

some turkeys will survive in marginal habitat but they will not thrive.....and marginal habitat is becoming the rule with all the habitat manipulation(read clearcuts).

Good points Mr. Steve!

I tried to locate recent articles that quoted the proven research. How old that research is I did not look in to that. It very well may be old news. My goal in this thread was to show it as a known issue rather than some perceived issue. I stated above I can tell those that are interested small improvements to a small property has paid dividends for me. Trapping, burning, planting and improving habitat has turned this property around for now. I had 3 mature gobblers, 5 jakes and about 20 hens this year that I know of. It had very few turkeys on it just a few years ago. The property is mostly mature swap hardwoods so I probably pulled some birds from surrounding properties along with the current turkeys producing some the past two summers.

PCP the predation of our turkeys is not hard to prove at all
As I said I’m into my third property managing predators and have seen a large increase In turkeys after the third year of trapping
If I were a novice at trapping I would believe what you said but since I’ve been doing this most of my life I know it works
While habitat does play a role I have to say predator management is the most important thing for turkey survival that’s within our ability to control
There isn’t much we can do about natural causes other than really just chalking it up as something beyond our control

Wish I was able to do some burns on my places but I can’t but I started trapping couple years ago, hope it’s helping. I’ve really enjoyed it and the kids enjoy it too

Ants

Been thinking a lot about this since the Chamberlain discussion got going... is there any correlation between the decline of turkeys/increase in predators because of feeding deer more? I don't know about you guys, but at any given time on our property besides turkey season we have at least a dozen piles of corn going - most of the time it's far more than that. Conventional wisdom says the more coons/possums/etc eat corn, the less nests they disturb. But, at the same time wouldn't you also have a more concentrated amount of these animals due to the ready-made food sources. On top of those animals that eat at these corn piles, coyotes/bobcats/etc might also stick closer - knowing the corn attracts prey they eat. Obviously, feeding corn helps the deer herd... and I've thought about going to war on these types of animals around these feed areas. Say... put out a raccoon trap or two and a coyote trap around every feed station.

Started trapping coons about 11 months ago and coyote about 6-7 months ago on a 256 Acre lease - first 5-6 month I was just weekend trapper - now try to leave coyote traps out longer

So wet I taking break for few weeks trapping

Caught 26 coons - 6 coyote - 7 possum - 3 fox and 1 cat. Hope I have saved a few fawns and turkeys - don’t see near the coons at my feeders - I was getting 8 at a time at 3 different feeders - now 2-3 tops and some nights none

Going to try protein this summer for deer and plant more clover next year and May do Chufla

My turkeys leave bad right at start of season last 2 years - think my neighbor feeds big time during season

Deadeye and PollWoll and some others on Alldeer are excellent trappers - I still a rookie

Trapping is the key. Most timber leases don’t burn and won’t allow you to burn. Trap every predator you can and kill every snake you see.

Pretty much destroyed the coon/possum population around me the last 5 years. Fixing to do the same to the yotes.

Coyotes are smart - a rush catching them - think
U will enjoy it turkey Neck - I like it lot bettr than coon trapping

I do it for the end result - but yote trapping actually fun - coon too but to me yote more

How y’all handle the fire ants, hawks, crows, and skunks

We can’t get everything - impacting what we can

Hard to b a turkey

Shoot them except ants

Temix

I finally read the links , I say ,,,,, ants and habitat are the main problems .

shoot the fkn ants too

trapping is more important on marginal land than on prime land.

I kill more skunks than anything around my places. Just happens that way. I need to get serious with the coyotes. I know
they are thick everywhere but I wouldn’t be scared to say the population here is close to the highest in the state.

Set up a chicken pen and put traps all around it . Youll catch stuff from miles around . Lol

We had the TWRA and a NWTF biologist on our place Friday looking at timber habitat plans and other things.

The Turkey conversation was eye opening to say the least

Although predators do take turkeys and eggs, that definitely isn’t the main issue. Considering we all had them when plenty of turkeys existed. We all agreed trapping will help but won’t solve the problem.

An abundance of predators seems to tamp down the gobbling.

1. Nesting cover
2. Overhead protection for poults
3. Bugging areas for poults

Guessing these were high on the biologist list ?

Ax
Plow
Cow
Fire
Gun
....if it aint broke....dont fix it