March 16th Opening Day

I see this year opening day is on March 16th. In the past, hasn't Alabama opened on the 15th of March? I do recall opening on the 14th one year due to the 14th falling on a Saturday.

Hmmmm, what?

Misprint.... don’t worry about technicalities

I think I now recall them changing it to open on the 3rd Saturday of march instead of 3/15.

the regulations say opening day is 3/16 to confirm

Still the 15th here as far I know. I’ve been starting on that date for years and don’t care much for change.

If you hunt on the 15th, you'd better do it with a bow, ol green jeans hears a shot, he might come looking for you

Link to all area season dates

www.outdooralabama.com/hunting/seasons-and-bag-limits

Not a big deal this year, (1 day), next year will cost us 6 days! I believe the 3rd Saturday (new law) falls on the 21st

We always get started as soon as they start responding to the calls, some years it’s the 15th and some years it’s not

Someone needs to be beaten for that.....

“It’s a day that just about everybody has off,” Harders said. “If it comes in on a Thursday and you’re in a hunting club where you’re the only person who can get off on Thursday, it gives you a big advantage over everybody else.”

So...... NO biological reason for making the change. Just taking days away so Fred and his buddies can hunt opening day. Anyway, I’m going to send these clowns an email every day until I get a response back from them. Here is Fred’s contact info:

Fred Harders, Assistant Director
(334) 242-3465
dcnr.wffdirector@dcnr.alabama.gov

And here is the response I got from Chuck....


Mr. Cockrell,

I was forwarded several emails from you today, one of which came from the Commissioner’s office, and I have been asked to respond to your concerns. I see that they are all centered around the change in the opening day of turkey season for the upcoming season. This quote was taken from your email addressed to specifically to me, “I realize that the CAB makes this recommendations but can’t you, as the director over rule them?” As you stated, the recommendation was not proposed by ADCNR Wildlife and Freshwater Fisheries Division (WFF) wildlife biologists. However, we do not make the regulations. We can make recommendations to the Commissioner and the Board, but we can’t over rule them. So, ultimately, it is their decision.



Here’s another quote from you in an email simply addressed to whom it may concern, “ I wish we had leadership in the DCNR that wouldn’t allow major changes like this to seasons without a concrete biological reason.” Be careful what you wish for, you may just get it. The first priority with our staff in recommending changes to season regulations is the wildlife resource in which we are deemed responsible for managing. If a later opening had been proposed by our staff, it would likely have been later than the 3rd Saturday in March based on preliminary data. Our WFF Wild Turkey Committee, in cooperation with researchers at Auburn University, has developed wild turkey prediction models using current biological data such as reproduction, survival, and harvest rates to predict future populations under various season and bag limit alternatives. Although this work is not yet complete, indications are pointing to a later opening and reduced bag limit as the optimal alternative to produce the most viable populations. We are currently updating the model and will include data gleaned from the current AU research project when it concludes next year. Besides the observed decline in population growth as evidenced by our statewide brood surveys and harvest trends, harvest intensity in the first couple weeks of the spring season may play a role in reducing the potential of hens being bred.



The final quote of yours I’d like to respond to came specifically to me, “I am just very disappointed that we would allow a change like this based on someone’s agenda rather than abound biological reason.” I am looking at the turkey season and bag limit recommendations through three pair of glasses. First as a turkey hunter with 40 years of experience here in Alabama. Secondly, as a college educated wildlife biologist with more than 25 years of on-the-ground experience of managing tens of thousands of acres in Alabama. And finally, as the Director of Wildlife and Freshwater Fisheries whose job is to manage, protect, conserve, and enhance the wildlife and aquatic resources of Alabama for the sustainable benefit of the people of Alabama. As a selfish turkey hunter, I want as many days afield as I can get regardless of the negative impact it could have on the resource. As a biologist, I want the season to start in April as the biological data suggests which would be best for the resource. As the Director, I have to weigh the consequences of both sides before I make recommendations. Although these season changes may be inconvenient for our hunters, me included, our focus is maintaining sustainable populations of wild turkeys, while providing hunting opportunities for all Alabamians, now and in the future.

Thank you for your input and I hope I have adequately addressed all of your concerns.



Chuck Sykes

Director

Wildlife & Freshwater Fisheries Division

Arrogant bastard.

Always a threat with Chuck.
Basically he’s saying “Until morale improves; the beatings will continue”

At least not a canned response. He actually read and responded to concerns

Still doesn’t make the decision any better

Matt, you should respond and ask him if the last 50 years of population stability and growth under our current regs, is not a better sample than some study done by auburn.

I just wish they would stop prescribed fire for the month of April. March through May would be even better but I'd settle for April.

And regulate the spread of chicken liter until after it's aged or gone through a heat cycle to reduce the threat of disease.

A bounty on nest predators would be cool too.

Might as well request the stopping of clear cutting hardwood timber while you’re at it

Limit it to a basal area of 60? At what point does epicormic branching become a problem?

Austin you and I know that the study is going to say what they want it to say. We should all prepare ourselves for a shorter season and a 4 bird limit next year.

About the same point litter does.

I’d go ahead and brace for 3

When they inevitably move it back to April, I wonder if half the WMAs will continue to open a week after private land. And as far as I know (at least where I'm able to hunt), you only get to hunt half a day. So if you got a full time job, you have, at best, 8 half-days to hunt. Throw in church which takes priority for many of us, and it's down to 4.

But let's all heed that turds threat to someone he's supposed to serve.....self-righteous twat

I liked all his answers. If you have not seen a severe decline in Turkey populations over the last decade you are very fortunate. I hope they do whatever it takes to get the population back to what it used to be.

Guess I'll be the outlier here. Props to Chuck and his response. All very valid points that I agree with. Of course I wear those biologists glasses too. It is not every day you get a tailored response from an agency's wildlife director.

Maybe yall could appoint him in MS. We'd gladly send him over

Hell of a good resume, just ask him

I wouldn't be surprised with a 3 bird limit next year.

Alabama FINALLY gets a qualified MAN in there who makes decisions based on RESEARCH and Biological evidence.....and Folks still want the "Yes Man Puppets" that were in that position since the department was started. Not to mention the fact that the research/evidence compiled by Auburn University back in the 50's is why the restocking program was as successful in Alabama as it was and other states followed suite. The GOOD OLE BOY in office days are OVER.....Get your Butt off your shoulder and realize some things have to change along the path......

what part of "just moving it so that everyone can hunt on a Saturday opening day" did you miss? has zero to do with anything biological.

Down in lower Alabama our season starts on the 9th anyways.

Yeah it kinda went like this ..
.. “We ain’t got no turkeys”
“Ok let’s turn some loose”. Not like it took a lot of research or a team of geniuses to come up with it. And Alabama wasn’t the first state to try it.
I can’t even respond to the rest of your post.

Only if you let it.

Read this S L O W L Y

“It’s a day that just about everybody has off,” Harders said. “If it comes in on a Thursday and you’re in a hunting club where you’re the only person who can get off on Thursday, it gives you a big advantage over everybody else.”

Fred Harders, Assistant Director

BrentM: Research the restocking program Bigboy....yes others "Tried the release of pen-reared wild stock"..didn't work. Auburn researched the habitat needs and trapped in-state-----actually traded some to other states. Some of you folks on here I wonder if you actually have Pubes yet....

Dear Chucky and Fred.....

Roll with the 15th, just don't post pics on Facebook or ALDeer. Don't post looking through a scope or with corn on the ground and you will be fine.

I think he’s simply commenting on the change and trying to convince people to look on the bright side..

That's the everybody gets a trophy mentality. If Turkey hunting is important to ya , you'll take opening day off during the week. If Saturday was their goal , should have made it the 2nd Saturday. Chucky and Co. just gotta mess with everything.

I personally think they should reduce the limit to 3 birds and reduce the buck limits to 2. Only then would we start seeing our wildlife population increase to what it is capable of carrying.

i saw 43 longbeards, 63 or 67 hens and 17 jakes last season in 6 counties...... I'm not buying anything he's selling

New guy coming in throwing haymakers!

I actually have done a fair amount of research. Most all the restocking came when hunters and landowners got together and started working to change things because the state was just sitting on its hands.
If the state would take the money they are using for all this “research” and start a program that encouraged trapping coyotes and varmints we’d have more turkeys here than we knew what to do with.

Don't forget to cut off your location tag in your camera settings as well.

If they move the opening to April like he is threatening, I am hanging up turkey hunting and I'll just get into fishing more (and earlier).

It is too damn hot in April in south Alabama, generally, and the grass is thigh-high already.

I would be more for a reduced bag limit than a later start date.

or you could just take pictures, then screen-shot them at a later date/location and if you want to brag on the innerwebs, make sure you post the screen shots, not the original.

There is currently a theory among the biologists that hens are more likely to breed with the dominant gobbler than with other gobblers. So if the dominant bird gets killed opening day, then the hens refuse to breed with one of the other gobblers and don't nest that season. That is what I have gathered from reading what I can find. If someone with better understanding wants to correct me, please do.

SC just released a report and that seemed to be what they were saying. The problem I had with it was that their research didn't seem to support their conclusions. Since we can't access the raw data, I can't be certain of that, but the information they released did not support their conclusions. I think the whole idea about the dominant bird is just a theory, and I have seen nothing to make me believe it's real. What I have observed is that when the dominant bird gets killed, another one will immediately become the dominant bird. I've even seen which one was dominant change during the season.

SC was monitoring an unhunted area during their study, and found that they heard about 2 gobbles a day more on that area than the hunted areas. That seemed to be the basis for many of their conclusions. It wasn't surprising that an unhunted area might have more gobbling, but I question whether that means hens are going unbred. They were also monitoring poult production on each area. There was no mention of a higher poult production rate on the unhunted land.

That leads me to believe that the poult numbers must not have been any better, cause you can be sure they would have led with that if it was a lot more. If poult recruitment numbers are the same in totally unhunted land as hunted land, then that completely destroys the theory. Forget about when the gobblers are killed; there were none killed at all, and apparently it didn't make any difference. They still reached the conclusion they apparently wanted to reach.

Face it folks - hunting is under attack everywhere. I know that there are hunters among our biologists who are doing the legwork, but I strongly suspect an anti-hunting bias at the heart of at least some of the current research. We can fight it, or just bend over and take it. Write to your CAB member. I know that we've had some questionable members of it in the past, but I think they are our last line of defense against ultimate government destruction of hunting.

Only problem I have with it opening March 15 this far north is that turkeys are still bunched up and I know of a couple instances where there have been 3-4 gobblers (or more) killed the first week over a pile of corn by some bloodthirsty folk.
I’d be ok if the northern part of Alabama’s season kinda mirrored Tennessee’s season. March 25- May 10 or so.
Taking days away just for the heck of it is inexcusable though.

If any changes had to be made they should consider splitting into a north and south zone for starters

I agree Brent. A north and south zone makes sense.

I would not object to splitting the season, but where I hunt it is over by the end of April. Lovettt Williams said that a later hunting season caused more problems with reproduction than an earlier season. He said that hunters would bump hens off their nests and cause some of them to abandon them. And he had genuine research that proved this happens, not a theory about what goes on in the mind of a hen.

I mentioned zones on here years ago and it wasn’t received well. I still think it should be done without question.

Gobblers and bucks = male
Hens and does = female

8th grade health class refresher may be necessary

Same with deer and turkeys some people are just idiots on how many they kill. If there are 50 hens and 3 gobblers some people will kill the only 3 left alive gobblers and wonder why there are no turkeys.

Why you gotta kill some hens to get your hen:gobbler ratio down. ... and cull gobblers

This guy gets it...

That's why we have a rule on our land that we have termed the "age & action improvement" bill.

Basically, we treat turkeys like they're under interrogation. If they gobble, they have basically confessed, therefore they get a pass. No gobble means they're withholding info and get a death sentence.

Additionally, if they strut, they get a pass. No strut= boom.

And, lastly, we have installed a fine system for age structure. A turkey 2.75 years and younger carries a fine of $25/ season that the bird was robbed of experiencing alive. If the bird is 2.5 years old (based on our proprietary advanced aging algorithms), he was robbed of one season and thus the hunter is fined $25.

Conversely, if he is older than 3.5, the money from the fining system begins to work in your favor, and you are credited for each season that bird got to live to the fullest. That funding comes from the underaged bird fine account.

A hunter on our land can who takes a verified 4+ year old bird with under 1" spurs (broken, misshapen, or missing spurs are also deemed culls and fit into this category as well) and under 10" beard (preferred, but subordinate to spur requirement) also qualifies for the QTM credit via a cull clause.

As Whild Bill puts it best, "We just know what works for us."

Times like these, we need a like button.

Since we don’t have one, enjoy your blinking envelope

You want your turkey numbers up, start trapping every possum,coon,coyote,bobcat you can catch. I been trapping on 3 different places for 3 years. On one place I was overrun with coyotes, the first week I caught 11 coyotes and caught over 20 coon and possum combined. I trapped it hard in February right before turkey season. I heard more turkey's that spring on that 300 acres than I had combined the first 3 seasons I had the place. I only harvested one bird off the place that year, should have killed more birds but I couldn't seal the deal on a few others. That summer and fall my turkey flocks I normally saw during that time period doubled. Each flock went from 10-20 birds to 30 plus. I continued to trap through the Fall and right up to turkey season. I'm still trapping the place hard and still catching 10-15 coyotes every year plus that many coon and possum. Every year the gobbling has been better and my flock sizes are increasing. I'm no professional trapper and I don't do it for the money, I really enjoy doing it to help the turkey hunting out. I promise if you put the time in to catch some predators and egg eaters it will make a difference on your place for hearing and seeing number of birds on your place.

I hope Aubarn is doing these studies around areas that are being trapped and non-trapped areas to see the difference. I'm sure that they are not but maybe so.
I know this has nothing to do with pushing the start date back but maybe in the future it would help with there biological stand point for pushing it back.

We are, it always opens around April 1st here in NW Bama always has since I've been alive.

Solid first post. Welcome

Yes it is , this feller gets it. Don't take a 5 year study to know predator numbers are off the charts. Not any $ in trapping now, coyotes numbers are all time high , red tailed hawks have made a comeback. Little turkeys just don't stand a chance. The states answer is shorten the season and lower the limit. Alabama could take a hint from South Dakota . SD is serious about protecting their pheasants, predators are fair game anytime day or night. The state basically does not restrict predator hunting and killing at all. Landowners can spotlight predators on their property.

Eagles.

And stop listening to anything from Auburn wildlife and agriculture.

AMEN!!!!!

We need a like button.

I've got a feeling the dominant gobblers might be about bred out by the time the season opens this year. I saw 2 Big boy paint brush beard gobblers with hens today. Doubt there just hanging around trying to be sociable

Is this a erious comment or are you going Whild Bill on us?

It would appear that turkey numbers are all over the place throughout the state. Every year we see guys that limit out in the first two weeks (or less) while guys like me struggle to kill a bird or two. I’m not the best turkey hunter in the world, but I generally find a way to kill turkeys when I have turkeys. There has been a marked decrease in the turkey numbers where I am AND the turkeys that are there don’t seem to gobble like they used to. My guess is that this is due to predation that only gets real pressure during the open hunting seasons.

I do think 5 birds a year is too liberal across the state, but if you’re consistently killing 5, you probably have the populations that can sustain it. IMO, 3 birds a year should be plenty for anyone...yeah I know, it’s been 5 for all this time, but it also used to be a buck a day every day. I’m not aware of any state that is as liberal even those with higher turkey densities (and probably more hunters, I get it).

As for the opening date, I’ve always loved it when the 15th fell during the week because I have been blessed to have a job that allows me some freedom in taking days off. That said, I would expect that the state will be looking to reduce the number of days altogether with a reduction in the bag limit. If this is beneficial to our turkey population, I think we could all agree that it is a good thing. The problem is that it will take a while to see the effects, if any.

I do not like big government in any way. However, an individual’s perspective is shaped by their experience...If you are blessed to have a thriving turkey population, this all seems like BS. If you are in the same boat as me, you will have a different opinion. A “one size fits all” set of regulations is a tricky thing at best.

Still isn’t gonna affect the guys that kill 10-15 a year and hunt from March 1 til June 1 anyway.

It used to open on March 20 didn't it?

I swear when I was killing them in the early 90's that was opening day and then April 1 here. I even recall Sam R opening on April 1. I wore em out down there when it started opening on March 20th.

That is true! Unfortunately, rules and laws are written with the notion that people will follow them. As for those that abuse legal bag limits, fines should be increased to a painful level that would be some sort of deterrent maybe?

That’s right! Not to mention the state doesn’t know or wont release the information of how many hunters kill a limit. Seems like that would be a useful price of the puzzle to know how many gobblers we would he “saving” by reducing the limit.

Bar II 270, I agree with you on the fines. Make the fine $5000 for killing over the limit. I disagree that 5 is to liberal a bag limit because I think there is a small percentage of hunters that kill 5. This is just a WAG but I bet 75% of turkey hunters in Alabama kill less than 2 gobblers a season.

The last year I hunted turkeys was 2014, got a limit, one was a gobbling jake though. I lost the place and haven't really gone turkey hunting since.

Most true statement on the matter I have seen in a while...Doesn't take a scientist to see the predator population making more of an effect than all the other controllable factors combined

There is no longer another state that allows 5 spring gobblers based on a regular license. SC did, but they cut it to 3 a few years back. There are states that allow you to kill more than 5 by buying additional permits, and others where you can do it by killing some in the fall. Some states even let hunters kill hens in the fall, which has always seemed insane to me. A dead turkey is a dead turkey, and a dead hen raises no poults.

AL has used a system of a generous spring season and very limited fall season at least since the 50s. Since gobblers don't assist with raising poults, removing some of them has no effect on the overall flock. We have seen the argument that "3 should be enough for anyone" many times on here before. It would be game management based on feelings instead of fact, so I hope it doesn't come to that. There are no doubt career state employees at the dcnr who agree with you and want to increase regulations. I have lately been encouraged by some things I've heard that lead me to believe that the CAB might not be willing to go along with this.

I'm not sure it's fair to say we have a one size fits all system, but the system we do have allows the landowners to determine how to manage their game. Most put far greater restrictions on their land than the state anyway. Deer are a great example; nobody ever killed a buck a day; it was just a mechanism to let the landowner control his land. I don't know about you, but my experience is that deer hunting has gotten worse since they implemented the buck limit.

Our experience may shape our views on many levels, but I'm pretty sure that I will never retreat from my view that it's a better system to let landowners manage their land instead of a guy in Montgomery. If I lose all my places to turkey hunt the way that you have, I will look for new places, or maybe just retire and be thankful I got to hunt most of my life in the AL system. I hereby pledge that I will not respond by wanting the state to stop 257 from shooting his turkeys.

Retire from turkey hunting? If that were an option, it would have happened a long time ago!

"Retire" implies it's a choice whether or not one participates. Once you get hooked, there's no choice to be made.

Hey what’d I do PCP??? I don’t even hunt the stupid things

Yes it used to open here on March 20th and the bag limit was 6.

What years was it 6?
I couldn’t recall.

I remember when it was 6. We had a “friend” down the road who would kill a limit by about lunchish on the 20th.

Limit changed to 5 well before the opening date was moved to the 15th.

I haven’t been turkey hunting near as long as most of you but it seems to me that if a later starting date really improved turkey numbers then Winston county would have the greatest population in the state. They have opened late a long time.

If they are worried enough to push back dates and lower the limits, then why not just make them harder to kill. You can believe what you want to about decoys but I see a lot of videos of birds killed every year that would’ve never been killed without the decoys set out or at least wouldn’t have been killed with the same set up.

I say outlaw decoys, especially reaping, stop shooting jakes and lower the limit to 3 gobblers with the option to turn in 10 trapped predators each for 1 more gobbler tag. 2 extra gobbler tags maximum.

Whover gets that passed will also be subject to an involuntary commitment petition started by ME

Love his response, if the so called hunters would have more education and concern this State would have a better turkey as well as deer herd. Ignorance shows in all phases.

It was 6 in 1989. Stayed that way until somewhere in the mid to late 90’s I think.

Care to explain?

Here is good study from South Carolina why the season starts when it does.

http://www.dnr.sc.gov/wildlife/turkey/pdf/2018SCDNRTurkeyReporttoGeneralAssembly.pdf

Average nest initiation April 9th. Average next incubation April 22nd. Gonna recommend a start date of April 10th.

Most of SC, latitude wise is about B’ham to the Tennesee line. A whole bunch of AL counties are further south in latitude. I would think about a third of AL has nest initiation dates earlier than April 9th. Maybe even some before April 1st.

It would be rough in the southern part of the state waiting to April 1st. Hunting in April around here is hot and gobbling is usually slow. Maybe that wouldn’t be the case if all the gobblers were still alive. All except for the hot weather part.

I doubt he will. He and Festus are too busy getting their knees dirty at the Alter of Chucky.