Meet and greet with Dave Owens (Pinhoti Project)

Hey guys, I was thinking today that I would like to meet Dave and pick his brain and hear what he had to say about turkey hunting and his 2018 season. I know there are a bunch of guys on here who would probably like to do the same so I sent Dave a message today asking him if he would be interested in having a meet and greet with the hardcore turkey hunters of Aldeer and he said it would be a pleasure. We briefly discussed dates but before we can really nail anything down it would be good to have an idea of how many folks would come. More than likely this would be in the central alabama area. So what do y’all think? Would you try to make it?

I would

I'd like to meet him too! Bring his buddies with him if possible.

Dr. B

In

In

Depending on date, I would definitely try to come as well.

I will bring the beer

And cigars!

Depending on date I’m in. I wouldn’t miss a chance to chastise Chubbs. He’s a good guy and hilarious to be around.

I’d be in

I’d try to make the trip for sure

RSVP....yes

I’d sure try to make it.

Count me in.

If it works out on my 7 days off, I’ll probably come visit y’all northerners

I would like to do this as well

I'd be in

In

I'm in also.

I'm in!

If at all possible schedule wise....absolutely!

In

Depending on when, I'm in if I can make it

I would be in depending on location......or better yet, since his girlfriend lives in Jackson County, we should just do it somewhere in Scottsboro!

I’m always up to drink beer and tell stories.

I’d be down

x2

I’ll tag along with melon head

Hold on a minute! You hillbilly's can't keep dragging everything North! The OP said central Bama. Scottsboro is North Bama.

Update. I talked to Dave a little while ago and he is going to look at his calendar and send me some dates that will work for him this fall/winter and we’ll start getting this thing nailed down. I figure this could end up being a pretty large crowd so once we have a date I’ll start working on a venue where we can all get together. I’ll keep everybody posted with the details as I know them. I’m pretty excited that this is coming together!

Wow, nothing draws a crowd like free beer, thanks Ben2 !

x 2

Depending on the date I may provide a location as well.

I may even make the drive from MS if it isn't too far away.

We have a date! Saturday evening Oct 27th. Time and place is to be announced.
We’re going to have food and I told Dave we would make sure he wasn’t out of pocket for his driving and time. Of course he said he wouldn’t take anything for coming out and that was crazy talk but I figure we can all chip in for food and a little extra for Dave whether he wants it or not.

Well that great!! I’ll be in Daphne that weekend, just my luck!!! Maybe I can get him to tag along with me this spring on a hunt so I can pick his brain

Well I'm out! I'll be on nights that weekend.

I’m out also. Had a hunting trip already planned that weekend.

Well dang guys. Y’all chime in if you can make it please and get a early head count.

I'm off that day. Depending on the deer movement and the time of the meeting, I'll be there.

We should all chip in and get him 10 lbs of #9 TSS for his time. Even he couldn’t turn that down. I’m in pending location is still central AL.

That’s juvi weekend in tn so I’m out.

I’ll be there.

I’ve got a multimillion dollar project starting at work next week, and the first 3 weeks are going to be hectic, but if at all possible, I’ll be there.

Be cool to have a big screen and run some of his highlights

I'd still like to go, I care less and less about pine goat season these days.

If November 3rd works better for the majority that's another good Saturday. I know we won't be able to coordinate with everyone's schedule just tossing around ideas.

I'm working that weekend too!

Where?

Dr. B

Still in.

If I’m done planting food plots on my big lease here in Alabama I’ll do my best to make the 27th. I’ll probably be headed north to my leases in Kentucky and Illinois to start a 6 week Midwest hunting tour around that time frame. November 3rd is definitely out for me.

Do y’all want to have it on Oct 27th or move it to a later date? I’m good with whatever the majority wants. I certainly don’t want Dave to drive over here and only have 5 or 6 people show up when we could postpone it and maybe have 30.

Like Dave said we are never going to be able to pick the perfect day but maybe if it was a couple of months out everybody could mark it on their calendars before you get booked up.

I’d like another shot at making it so later would be fine with me but it’ll still depend on the day but I’ll try my best to make it, it’ll have to be a family event to keep me away, not deer hunting

October 27th is better than later in the season for me.

You are gonna have a hard time getting 30 to show up anywhere at any one time in my opinion. If you can get 12-15 for a particular time and date you will be doing good I think

I may be back in depending on location, hunting trip canceled due to knee scope

If y'all want me to attend it will have to be the 27th. I think I'll be able to make that date.

Meet and greet has been postponed until after deer season when everybody gets back into turkey mode. We will set a date way in advance so everybody can plan their schedules accordingly.

"You are one pathetic loser....no offense."

Its only 150 days most of Bama opens haha, I stay in "turkey mode"

😂 Dang! To be clear Dave sent me a message this morning and said,

“I'm voting to just hold off on anything til probably first of the year when folks get back into turkey mode.”

Hopefully we can schedule this thing for February and give plenty of notice so everybody that’s wants to come can make it 👍🏻

Sounds good!! Keep us posted

I sure hope you recognized my insult as a quote from Dumb and Dumber.

In all seriousness, I am a little disappointed but understand. Heck, ol Dave might be like you and kill 3 150” deer on local public ground every year while goofing around waiting for the real hunting to come back around.

Yes, I got the quote! 😂😂😂 and I’m disappointed to buddy. We’re gonna get this thing set up eventually!

I met Dave today and shook his hand, hes a really nice guy.

Pleasure meeting you!

Sorry for the delay on the next video guys! I got distracted this weekend and then got the call the apparel was ready today. Anyone on the "out of stock" list be on the lookout for an email from me this week. Thanks!

Where can we find this apparel at?

Can't wait for the next video Dave! I've really enjoyed being able to tag along for the season with y'all.

He has pics of it on Facebook and instagram then email him what you want. Pinhotiproject@gmail.com

I met Dave and Courtney last week at the walmarks here in town. Seemed like nice people. I enjoy watching the videos! Keeps the fire burning through the offseason.

I know what turkey derangement syndrome looks like, I ain’t got it but would love to hang out with y’all. Overnight trip at Oak Mt would be a blast!

tagged

New topics for get together:

Hyper crowded public land
Awesome new season dates

What else?

Guess they will blame me for digging up this old post😂😂

Oh how the tables have turned ...

I’ll happily admit that I did not initially recognize the harm YouTube has caused. And I still enjoy watching pinhoti or Aaron on THP. I can see both sides of the aisle. But the harm is now outweighing the enjoyment.

Heck I started this thread and I’ll admit the same. The YouTube public land hunters have had a detrimental effect on public land hunting.

Nothing to be embarrassed about….and I doubt the pinhoti project guys knew what would happen either when they started. But now it’s quite clear.

Difference is, they don’t believe it has anything to do with them still. Unless Dave changed his mind within the last month

Yeah, they just blame it on COVID. I saw Aaron using that scapegoat on the book of Faces yesterday.

I guess another side effect of COVID is alteration of brain chemistry. It makes you plan a trip to the same state, region, or even exact same WMA/Forest that your favorite YouTuber hunted last year. It also makes you purchase their merchandise and dress exactly like them. And steal their terminology: "Turkey Tour" "In his bubble"

That danged COVID!

As soon as spring thunder started getting traction I became concerned. I’ve seen first hand the molestation arkansas wmas/nwrs receive during duck seasons ….. social media was 10 years ahead on duck hunting vs turkey hunting. Now the same thing is happening to turkey hunting via social media/YouTube. It has followed nearly the same path….now we are in the regulation phase where opportunities will be limited by DNRs. They can blame it on covid but they are not being truthful to us or themselves. If they gave a dam about turkey or turkey hunting’s future they’d hang it up and delete their “content”. But they won’t. They got a little taste of money and fame……and that’s a hell of a drug for most people.

Ditto on both counts.

It’s only gonna get worse.

Dave’s videos went south when mossy oak got involved

Daves videos went south when he started relishing the fame, attention, and money more so than the actual pursuit of the wild turkey.

x2...I used to loved his vids but now it's about selling merchandise and all. It's why I still really only watch the Chubbs vids b/c he doesn't care about the fame and all, just loves to turkey hunt.

It kills me these super famous hunters really have a platform to make a difference when it comes to promoting trapping and going against the season change bs yet they all are silent on it. They don't care because they make enough money on youtube vids to hunt any states they choose and it doesn't affect them really.

I sincerely hope all the people who are just now seeing the negative affects of social media will continue to voice their concerns.
I doubt we ever see THP, Dave, and the rest admit fault at this point.
Just maybe, they will quit leaving any cookie crumbs as to where they are at. If they are truly hunting for the love of the sport, why do they have to even name a state?

Do a little digging on YouTube monetization rates. Then go look at their view counts.
These YouTubers aren’t making chit in the overall grand scheme from their videos.
This is assumption on my part- I bet every single one of them is doing odd jobs in the off season to support their “career”.

They have to name a state so they can have their video show up first when someone searches " 'xyz' state turkey hunt". And SO many people watch their videos just try to find the next best state/spot to turkey hunt in. It is also why you routinely see them throw "public land" in the title. If they just titled a video "Southeastern Gobbler at 20 yards" or "Midwest gobblers galore!" it'd be tougher for them to show up in searches. Another reason THP has long video titles, they need as many 'key words' as possible.


It is all about building their brand and following.

I recently met with with Dave and asked him to quit naming states. Oh boy, that didn't go over well! Basically, I was told he's a traveling turkey hunter who has built his brand on traveling to different states so he is always going to name states! Told me all I needed to know right there.

Exactly. Dave is about Dave. Damn what is best for the resource.
He has the “I’m going to get mine” mentality worse than the other channels IMO. If anyone thinks he’s not about fame or recognition, they are sadly mistaken.

Congrata to Dave for making a career out of what he enjoys! If only everyone could be as fortunate.

Now I didnt say he was making money off of youtube now did I?

Only problem is he’s screwing the general public in the process.
Can the same be said other lines of work?

Just politicians and state game agency heads.

Heck he bushwacks half the turkeys he kills.

😂😂😂 this place never disappoints! Now we acting like he can’t call up a turkey

Heck, I guess if I’m honest I bushwhacked most of the turkeys I’ve ever killed. Ain’t been many of them sit by the tree call to him in the morning fly down killings in my experience.

Me too! But they just as dead as the ones that did fly down and come straight to me. I’ll take em however I can

The only difference is y’all are not on YouTube talking about how much you respect the turkey and it’s all about the hunt not the kill. There’s a difference between fooling one and just killing one.It’s not that hard to sneak into TSS range. I maybe a little sour since he films some on the WMA I hunt.He maybe be a World Champion turkey caller but his Yelp sounds like a puppy barking to me.😬

His yelps are snappy ain’t they Walker? What you think, Pomeranian or yorkie?

I had no interest in attending a “meet & greet” with Dave before, but I bet it would be entertaining now! Count me in if you reschedule.

Dave has posted on social media talking about the importance of trapping while he was trapping. I’m not saying I love YouTube hunters but from what I’ve seen he’s a pretty good guy who truly loves chasing turkeys.

Dang y’all ease up on Dave. I have never met him but the guy can flat out kill turkeys and is a great caller. Better than me. I’m not saying the whole public land filming is right or wrong but he’s successful at what he’s chose to do and has a ton of knowledge and can most times figure out what a turkey will do depending on different situations. Like I said the attention he’s brought to public is not desirable but to question him as a person ain’t right. I would like to spend an afternoon and pick his brain and am sure he’s a good person

The hell with Dave and the horse he rode in on.

For the haters you should listen to the last 30-40 minutes of this one

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talk-about-it-outdoors-podcast/id1541368142?i=1000530711082

Can you summarize without having to listen to tooth chipper?
He needs to grow a set and come on here and other forums to discuss his behavior that is influencing us all.

Have to say, Dave is the only one that pushes back against some of these new regulations. He pushes habitat management and purchasing more public lands and doesn’t believe in limiting access or time to hunt until all other measures fail, just wish he’d be a little louder and less worried about offending chamberlain.

Do you by any chance have a link to any of podcasts, etc where Dave discusses this?

I skimmed through the one SJ posted a few posts up, and he said a few things along those lines in the first 15-20 minutes of the podcast.

Dave better bring a bodyguard. Lol.
I don’t watch a lot of YouTube and wouldn’t know him if I met him.

Aint that the truth!!.......

[quote=AC870]
With the looks of that man of little stature, he may very well need one.

Basically any of the ones he’s been on that discussed conservation. He does his videos the best out of all the YouTube guys, leaves very little in his videos to get a bead on. It’s all the wanna be’s trying to do what he does that wouldn’t even be out there if they didn’t have a YouTube or Instagram account. They are the ones burning places for pocket change or less. Some of the podcast guests and hosts are the worst. Willing to spill their guts and drop names of places for a little name recognition that nobody cares about. I wish one of them had the guts to push back on the b.s. that chamberlain spews, wouldn’t be hard to make a fool out of him.

To hell with a meet and greet with Dave. Y’all set it up with TURKEY DOC and I’m in

Dave is the best of the "Youtube Guys" at least the last I watched. He's a straight predator. The problem though is that he gets off at everyone watching his videos and thinking that he's a predator. You can go back and search my posts, I've said it before - I just don't like his face. There's a "I'm the best" attitude. Which is unfortunate. If Dave wasn't so up on himself he would be a helluva turkey hunter to hang out with. But alas, neuroscience teaches us that by the time we are 30, we are who we are. Even before the "Pinhoti Project", Dave was the guy who got off at being a "better turkey hunter" than everyone else. He's not the guy who loves turkeys. He's not the guy who loves turkey hunting or loves turkey conservation. Dave loves the idea of people thinking he's the best. Dave, in his own words, has branded himself as a "Traveling turkey hunter". He refused to not name the spots he visited. After all, how would people know? He will continue to seek fame as he travels from state to state burning one man's honey hole after the other. It's not that hard to do if you are predator with a video camera. The only hard part is choosing to dedicate your life to that purpose. For Dave, I suspect that choice was easy.

As far as Chamberlain, the man is a self-professed fool. The most interesting thing that he has learned in his lifetime of studying turkeys... by his own words....is not a factoid about turkeys. Instead, it was the fact that he was wrong about something. I.E. That his graduate school project was proven wrong by later research.

What a fascinatingly backwards world we live in.

I agree with all of that…..It’s the truth. People should hunt for themselves and personal satisfaction………social media has turned everything into a D swinging contest and the competition to be a killer/predator makes people do crazy things for validation from complete strangers. No serious turkey hunter in their right mind would tell you they even heard a turkey 10 years ago. You’d lie to your own friends/pastor etc if they saw your truck parked somewhere on forest road. Now for the sake of likes from strange men/couple hundred dollars …. Guys are filming gobbling / killing turkeys and publishing it for hundreds of thousands to watch and dissect for location leaving enough clues for spots to be screwed. These YouTube guys are the Benedict Arnolds of turkey hunting

Dang yall sure do hate on folks who enjoy hunting and posting about their successes. Seems like Dave still kills the heck out pf gobblers everywhere he goes so the hunting cant be that bad can it?

Straight from our anti turkey hunting dr turkey minion

I hate what it’s doing to the sport I love ….. loss of opportunity through regulation is enough for me.

I think if there were 5000 Dave’s it wouldn’t change what’s happening. Yeah, it sucks that so many people hunt now , but old timers were complaining about too many hunters from 1990 to 2010. Heck the difference is that now there aren’t as many bird so the pissedoffedness is at a level that can’t be overcome. I grew up within walking distance of the West Point corp land and you could get on birds every day there in the late 90s. I can’t remember the last time I’ve heard or seen a turkey there, or even heard of one being killed. YouTube attention whores or not, it is not ever going to be like to good ole days. That sh...t is over and out.

Same thing happened to duck hunting AR in the 90’s long before the internet and Duck Dynasty the Cache and White River bottoms became federal refuges and the chit show began. I left AR in the late 90s because of it. Sadly it was all public land before it all hit but folks were nice and respectful, that all changed when the bottoms hit the federal refuge system.

Arkansas was busy promoting Stuttgart was the duck hunting capital of the world and an 8 million dollar a day infusion of money.
Maryland was warning Arkansas careful what you wish for since they were losing Canada goose hunting prestige they once held.

Na man I have always loved turkey hunting and glad so many people enjoy it now days. I dont know anything about Dr. Turkey, but hope whatever he does helps grow the population in some way. If it does not well at least he tried instead of theeatening to beat someone uo who posts videos about turkey hunting on public land. But then again what do I know you are the know it all goat of turkeys so carry on.

I agree that nobody knows if this dr chamberlain guys knows what he’s talking about but at least they’re trying something to see if it makes a difference. Of course I’d be fine if they just made a nationwide 45 day season, all day hunting, and a 5 bird per state limit. I guess if they did that and we wiped out most of the turkeys everybody could get back together and regroup on another hypothesis. I can’t tell you that when we didn’t have a lot of hunting pressure around us we had a lot of birds, and I’m talking as soon as 3 years ago. Some stone cold self employed hunt every day guys got land all around us and now there are hardly any birds. There were 2 birds left on a block that’s over 1000 acres mid way through the season. I know for a fact they didn’t die from disease, they all got shot.

I'm here. Let's get started. . . .

Couple things you should know, I'm here to participate until productivity fades because I welcome discussion. I'll gladly discuss anything turkey with anyone but when someone doesn't like me "because of his face" then I really can't help, I'm having to roll with what I have. *insert the face only a mother could love idiom* I have never admitted to being perfect. I have made mistakes. I am not afraid to say I was wrong when necessary. I listen.

I will defend what I do because I know it has more positives than negatives. Notice I did NOT say it comes without negatives. Everything comes with some degree of negativity unfortunately. A bulletproof engine does no favors for the mechanic right?

There are essentially 2 rabbit holes we can enter when discussing social media and turkey hunting. Hunting Culture and Increased Pressure. These 2 topics may converge at certain points but for the most part, can stand separated.

The degradation of the HUNTING CULTURE specifically surrounding the hunting of turkeys was the foundation of the Pinhoti Project and that continues, always will. I watched daily as the traditions and values brought to this "game" eroded (I signed out of social media entirely a year prior to Pinhoti due to being unable to stomach the disrespect). The values and principles described by the likes of Tom Kelly, Kenny Morgan and Gene Nunnery were being neglected by newcomers (and some not so new) to the sport. They were making a mockery of something I held very dear. It was appalling. Then I realized they may not be totally to blame. The VHS tapes and magazine articles I learned from were nearly extinct. Mentors are difficult to find. YouTube was the craze and it was saturated with the mockery I was witnessing. And as it was put to me "you fight fire with fire." Social media was the most efficient vessel to deliver the principles that were being ignored. I aimed to serve up a platform that could expose newcomers to the sport "the right way"- this was my opinion of course but one I felt most passionate turkey hunters could relate to. I have done that to the best of my ability. The before mentioned authors were doing this very thing in their writings, warning us of the perils we would face if the principles evaporated in time and there were no morals to sway our actions during the Spring. If anyone takes issue with me inconveniencing myself with a God-forsaken camera for every one of my Spring mornings for the last 4 years in the name of saving turkey hunting, the traditions that accompany it and the principles that it should be practiced by then by all means- grab the gear and try your hand at it. It must be done; I hope you recognize that. Because as I type, I'm sure there is some idiot taking a picture of a dead gobbler in Central Park in front of now newly enraged anti-hunters or some hot bikini model kissing the face of a decapitated longbeard. Get started, there are no off-days. I could go on for pages here and I'm certain it will eventually be demanded when the critics that refuse to slow down and see the big picture scream for such.

I'll move on toward the next rabbit hole- INCREASED PRESSURE and double back to something I mentioned before that could be seen as hypocritical, goodness knows there has been enough hypocrisy thrown around as of late. I wanted a platform that could assist in saving turkey hunting, the traditions that accompany it and the principles that it should be practiced by- is the increased pressure doing just the opposite? Absolutely not. Has the attention of YouTube turkey hunting caused more pressure? Absolutely. Does the increased pressure fall solely at the feet of YouTube? I just don't see how that can be so. Mapping software is giving more confidence than ever before. It's hard to miss an application deadline because agencies are sending email reminders. License sales are up across the board including fishing. Outdoor recreation as a whole has exploded over the past 2 years! Just look around- you're hard pressed to find a kayak on the shelves. Rock climbing, hiking, and heck anything outdoors is the most popular thing. In other words, the people were on their way to a national forest near you regardless of their streaming preferences. I for one am glad some of them found their way to the hunting license counter. The bigger question is, why do hunters hate other hunters? Recruitment is a positive thing. I'll start briefly with the stereotypical response on why that you probably expect - funding through license, guns, blah blah blah means conservation dollars. More hunters= more money. The pot of federal money that is "runneth over" now due to gun/ ammo/ etc sales doesn't make it's way back into the states hands unless they have the sale of a hunting license to provide so it in turn can be matched. So the more license ALABAMA sales the more of that "free" money the agency has to work with. Okay, stereotypical response number 1 out of the way. And number 2- talking big picture- we are still a minority to the population. We as hunters are not growing as quickly as the population. More important than the funding, in my opinion, is the voice. The average hunting license buyer is growing older every year, there will eventually be a cliff. I hope this increased interest has curbed that drab, long standing statistic. It's easy to ignore because it is so "big picture," we don't see our hunting rights infringed upon in the south after all, while the rest of the nation has seen a steady decline in hunters the southeast has held stable or even increased. Kudos to us! A ban on trapping in New Mexico barely goes noticed in Alabama. A very similar law hit the desk to your east in North Carolina, a little closer to home. The whack jobs in Oregon just introduced a direct threat to hunting and then the clown administration attempts to "back door" us, attempting to make it impossible to travel across state lines with ANY meat or carcass. As I digress from this 2nd stereotypical response just realize the larger the voice we have as hunters of any variety the more insulated our lifestyle will be from the attacks that are sure to come.

But p!ss on all that right? WHAT ABOUT OUR TURKEYS!?!

Hey! I agree, I like looking at what's happening here at home too. It's easier. More relatable. Question, when was the first time you heard the term poult recruitment or brood rearing habitat? what about poult per hen numbers? Unless you were in the world of wildlife academia, I'm guessing these weren't words used in typical dinner conversation. If you're a concerned turkey hunter they probably are now. Who would be surprised to know that the actual production of wild turkeys has shown dips since 2008 and by 2011 the declines were becoming widespread across the southeast? I'm not claiming to be a biologist or researcher and I'm not talking numbers to make them ring only to what I want to hear. But what I did find alarming was this issue we are facing is nearly a decade old and I don't recall any fussing over it until recently? Why? These issues were put on the desk of directors many moons ago. One professor emailed me a presentation delivered at the Wild Turkey Symposium in 2015 detailing the exact issues that are now "mainstream." This poses the question, if turkey hunting hadn't grown in popularity (regardless of the how- YouTube, Outdoor Channel, Covid, passenger pigeon, etc) over the last few years would these same issues still be sitting stagnant on someone's desk? If the importance of the resource hadn't grown, would we even know we have a "supply" problem? I believe the amount of publicity turkey hunting is receiving comes with impeccable timing. Will I lose some opportunity due to increased applicants? Possibly. It's a price I'm willing to pay to have a larger majority concerned about and willing to fight for the resource I hold dearly. Case in point, new organizations such as Turkeys for Tomorrow don't spring up without a motivated base and the National Wild Turkey Federation doesn't right itself from a multi-million dollar sinking ship without a powerful foundation. I am willing to make sacrifices to ensure that foundation is solid and growing. I like turkey hunters growing in numbers and in motivation. It's turkey hunters who will continue to ask questions until this "supply" issue we face is resolved. I'm also appreciative that avenues such as social media are available to help keep me aware of the problems, the scientific findings, some possible answers or even more questions we could be asking. With enough concerned voices we're sure to stumble upon the correct answers. I also really like that "our" enthusiasm has proven effective in holding some organizations accountable. I see this as a trend that will continue with an informed group of concerned hunters.

My response to the shortened season? Dislike. And here comes an explanation with a lot of "buts" in it. I hate watching opportunity vanish but do applaud the agencies for "doing something" and this appears a stand alone option for now. And as mentioned before, I am willing to make sacrifices. In the same breath I wish we had more answers. I saw shade cast toward Chamberlain- a researcher that has devoted his career searching for funding (and interest) to finding answers that for the longest period no one seemed to want. Now, everyone wants them. But, if we wait on those answers will it be too late for our resource? I become frustrated when other options aren't put on the table to reduce disturbance and harvest. Why are many WMAs so road happy? Lock the gates- widen the roads to alleviate the shortage of brood rearing habitat and "throw away the key." But that is still playing small ball, the majority of turkeys and turkey habitat lies in the hands of private landowners. Can we incentivize timber companies? They hold a lot of property. Why can't NGO's promote more predator control? Why are politics so heavily involved in the decisions that are affecting our wildlife (baiting)? Why can't we mention altering the methods used to kill turkeys without being attacked? Is over harvest really an issue? If eggs are fertilized, does it matter how many we kill? Regardless of how many males we have left in a population post season, I can't see that causing hens to carry 4 poults versus 1 to adulthood. Maybe there is a correlation I am unaware of (very possible). With the increased attention, lets hope we can get the brilliant minds among us to initiate research so we have a bit more solid ground to stand on. I do believe other options exist.

As a more of a "me" perspective; please realize I love wild turkeys. I hunted them for the same number of mornings before Pinhoti Project was a thing as I do now. I didn't work to save nearly as many then as I intend to now. I didn't realize I needed too, much like many I assume. I'm realizing now as a turkey hunter my responsibilities extend further than abiding by my self-assigned principles. I am realizing the cost of my hunting license and a $35 NWTF membership isn't enough. My price of admission was inadequate. I wake every day prepared to work as hard to save turkeys as I do to kill them during the Spring. Will I ever be able to convince some of you that is true? Unlikely. But I refuse to worry myself with those wanting to point fingers and play the blame game- I don't find it productive for the resource. I'm here in this forum because I care. Not about Dave Owens or the Pinhoti Project but about the message that social media has the power to carry to work for positivity for hunting and specifically turkey hunting.

I have just scratched the surface, I am aware. There are pages worth of side streets we could go down. So go ahead. . . let the bullets fly. Which side street would ya'll like to navigate first?

Strong post. 👍🏽

Dave, good post imo. I enjoy your videos and even donate to the KT Team now because of your videos. I imagine many others have begun to spend their time and money to support groups like them that we would otherwise have never heard of. Please continue helping and videoing those special hunts as often as possible.

meh

Thanks for showing up. I hope folks can keep this productive.

I look forward to the conversation

Appreciate ya! The annual PULL for the KT TEAM sporting clays shoot is weekend after next week. If you or some buddies want to partake let me know!

Excellent post. Thank you Dave

Dave, to your first paragraph. I agree the (old school way was disappearing) and needed to change.

However the old way wasn’t disappearing because people didn’t know how to hunt that way, like you said it’s a full on culture change. We are in the instant gratification generation. These new guys aren’t watching your videos on how to hunt, they are looking for where to hunt!

So, while trying to show people the right way, I feel mostly the videos just showed people it was possible. It brought out thousands of people to the sport that don’t want to hunt the old school way! All the new people attracted are mostly hunters that go against what you was trying to accomplish!

Your videos showed the same people of the (new culture) confidence in trying public land.

There’s many like me who are definitely guilty in the sense of watching your hunts, however the ones like me were already hunting and being involved. You just gained views from my or should I say our kind as we were already on the same hunt style opinions. The NEW people youve drawn in are on the new culture side.

This is why the restrictions are coming in the form of opportunity not weapon restrictions, Jake restrictions or decoy restrictions. (Just a few examples)

Thanks for sharing your side Dave. I think you'll find a majority of the finger pointers are just negative by nature. If you look at some of their post history they rarely have anything positive to say. I look forward to many more of your videos.

Says a lot about you to show up and try to dodge some of these “stones” that have been hurled at you. I agree with some, such as increased pressure that all youtubers bring. It’s possible it could’ve happened without it, but it sure didn’t help. Sure seems that duck hunting got so popular and went down hill after “Duck Dynasty” advertised it so much, along with ducks unlimited, etc etc. It doesn’t seem that duck recruitment has changed much for the good and the amount of hunters I bet has quadrupled at least since the 90’s.
The personal attacks? Well, we already know what we need to about those people.
The worst part about increased pressure to me is, I don’t know that we can change the guys sticking a decoy in a field they’ve had pictures of gobblers in for the last month and killin the fool out of them day after day. Now, that’s a legal way to hunt, and anybody that says anything about it is just a “holier than though” asshole. It’s hard not to think that lack of gobbling doesn’t come from a lot of this going on. I hate more rules and regs, so I don’t make to make it illegal, I just wish people wouldn’t go kill turkeys to see how many they can take pics of and post on social media and act like they’ve done something more than monitor a camera, spend money on scratch feed, and pull the trigger when he comes running across the food plot. It just doesn’t seem to be the “right” way that I learned….which is just another opinion. Hopefully you can have some good conversations and see both sides and maybe take something helpful away.

I used to always look forward to your “recaps” on GON 15 years ago. You and DJ were my inspiration to begin the public land super slam. When you started pinhoti, I was all aboard, because the content was relatable. At the time, I didn’t realize the repercussions that were to come. I’d imagine you may be in this same boat. I’m not one to call names, or pretend to know your motivations.

So here is the problem. Your intentions may have been to showcase the correct way to pursue these birds. It didn’t work. The new people are largely more worried about their social media pictures of fanned out gobblers, than the way they got them there. The old people hunt how they always have. The difference is this. You and THP have now given both groups the roadmap and incentive to travel in droves. When you combine that with Covid allowing those folks the freedom to travel, we’ve got a perfect storm. Think back 10 years ago. You and I both know plenty of fanatical turkey hunters in Georgia and Alabama. How many of them travelled and hunted public land? Almost none. You had certain people that would run to Texas or Nebraska every year and hunt private land, but otherwise stay in their home states. Today? You can be dang near to Canada in may, and there’s more people from Mississippi hunting than there used to be total hunters over the entire season. Places tend to be specifically harmed, when y’all showcase them. I’m sure that is part of the reason Chubbs has jumped off the bandwagon. His backyard has been showcased by you, catman, THP, the untamed, etc. As you know, there’s 10x the oosers now, compared to 5 years ago. Same for a lot of specific states.

So, at what point does the negative overtake the positive? Is it when our opportunities are cut back, because of record out of state pressure? Is it when you are dang near to Canada in late may, and can’t find a place to park because of all the Mississippi tags?

If I really saw an influx of new hunters who revered a long beard like I do, I could get on board with you. If I saw public lands being added, or turkey habitat being better managed because of license sales, I could get on board. But neither of those is happening.

I don’t blame you, or really expect you to step back. Your livelihood is now tied to continuing to believe, that the positives of Pinhoti outweigh the negatives. I really believe that you’re having the opposite effect than what you intended. These migrating masses of hunters, may kill turkey hunting culture forever. As opportunities become more regulated, public lands become more crowded, and hunter satisfaction diminishes, I fear that places like Alabama and Georgia will soon have the turkey culture of Idaho or Maine.

I appreciate the response and truly believe in the beginning the intentions were pure to some degree. However, it’s not worked the way you thought and that is apparent. It wasn’t anti-hunters or big city liberals that would take away our hunting opportunity and specifically public land hunting opportunities …….it was our very own. Men have been traveling the country for years hunting turkeys and keeping it under their hat. Turkey hunting is secretive by nature (or was). Now I’m not sure we can undo what’s been done. I know statistically we can look at license sales and specifically non-resident license sales since the rise of pinhoti project and thp the connections is easily made… the data is also clear to game managers around the country.

I think technology has played a big part. Turkey hunting, when done the way us older folks do it, was hard. It was secretive. Your best buddy would give you a night with his wife but he’d be damned if he would give you the whereabouts of a gobbling turkey. This is what made turkey hunting great. Now with OnX and a few cell cameras you can hunt from the a/c in the camp house and know exactly when you need to get off the couch while watching Pinhoti Project on YouTube. Sorry Dave, that last part was too easy.

Although irreversible damage has already been done thanks to the YouTube, one the main arguments against could be somewhat mitigated by one simple action:
QUIT NAMING STATES.

If you are in it to save the culture of turkey hunting, the decision should be easy. Why does it matter what state you are in?

Although increased public land pressure doesn't fall "solely" on YouTube, it falls majorly on it. OnX maps and COVID doesn't cause people to hop in their vehicle and drive directly to the region or even national forest or WMA that their favorite YouTubers hunt. YouTube causes that. Your own former sidekick admits it in a podcast. What is even more ironic is when these same turkey hunters who are following their YouTubers dress like them, wear the branded hats, and even have the stickers on their back glass. No, you can't blame OnX and COVID for that. When specific WMA applications see 40%+ rises in a single year due to YouTubers hunting there the year before and other WMAs in the state didn't see near that much of an increase, that ain't OnX and COVID.

When south zone Florida non-resident WMA quota applications see a 230% increase from 2018 to 2021, and WMAs in particular that you hunt on see the largest non-resident application increases (750%+), that ain't happenstance.

More hunters is more money for the state. But when the majority of those turkey hunters are now hunting on public land, we run into issues that can cause reduction in opportunity. Verbatim from a Georgia DNR biologist "Because hunting pressure is greater on public lands, we opted to make that opening date closer to peak incubation, which occurs around the second week of April in Georgia". I spoke with an Alabama DNR biologist who basically said the same for Bama's new statewide regs and 1:00PM closure.

So the Georgia public land hunter just lost at least a week off his season. Possibly more since new draw hunts have been established on popular WMAs for 2022. Why are draw hunts established? We all know the answer. If a Georgia or Bama hunter relies solely on public land to hunt, does statewide poult recruitment or brood rearing habitat really mean much to them? They can't manage the habitat on their public lands. Sure, they can trap a little, but that ain't really gonna change much. One thing that has changed though is major reduction in their hunting opportunity due to overexploitation of our public lands at dimes on the dollar.

You will "possibly" lose some opportunity? You already have, bud. Your south zone Florida WMA quota hunt days are nearing an end. You will now have to be drawn to hunt early season in Mississippi. Bama, 1-2 weeks lost on public lands. Georgia, already covered. The only difference between you and everyone else is that you can just hop in your truck and drive on to next state when it opens. What about the average working man who has a family and can only hunt on weekends and can't afford to travel? He would have been a hell of a lot better off without YouTubers screwing with his hunting, even with less turkey hunting revenue coming to his state DNR.


With that out of the way, we agree on 90% of issues:

You have in fact inspired some people to show a lot more respect for the wild turkey. On the other hand, you've inspired just as many to make it a numbers game.

You have helped spread light on the current issues facing wild turkey. On the contrary, many of your and THP's die-hard followers haven't been hunting very long and are part of this "The sky is following!" crowd because they came on board when turkey were doing better and they haven't hunted long enough to see the natural fluctuations in populations. This is also the same demographic that is very vocal on social media and actually aiding in reducing our turkey hunting opportunity. These new hunters got their public land bird(s) when times were better, but a bad hatch or two makes it difficult for them to #taggedout.The fact of the matter is, Mother Nature has always played a major role in turkey populations and we aren't going to change that.

There are a ton of research questions that need to be addressed before we go to slashing away opportunities. There are other avenues to save as many (if not more) gobblers from death other than season/bag limit reductions. This is easily agreed upon, but much more difficult to get action. And for all of our sake, I sincerely hope you, TFT, or ANYONE can get movement on it.




So to wrap this all up, why can't ya'll spare future reductions in public land opportunity by just quitting naming states? It'd be a valid compromise for all.


Ultimately, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if this combination of perfect storms causes us to lose turkey hunters. When folks get tired of overcrowded public lands, rising lease prices (due to turkey hunters having to have access to private to hunt their state's entire season), opportunity reductions and more restrictions.....Some will in fact gave it up! And I hate to say this, but I'm already looking forward to that day. I'd rather have less turkeys and a lot less turkey hunters than the crap show public lands/traveling turkey hunting has turned into since the YouTube/social media "hunting influencer" era came about.

Here's a novel idea, if it's within the regs, why don't the social media guys buy a trapping license and hit the WMA's etc during furbearer season and run a line for nest predators ? Then promote that idea, publish it. Maybe some followers will take it up and do the same. Combine it into a scouting/trapping trip to add personal value. A side benefit, is that increased license sales and trapping equipment sales leads to increased P-R funds available to the states.

I'm seeing more private lands guys wanting to learn trapping and start setting steel. You're not going to make any money doing it, but every brood that is successfully hatched gives at least a small chance that there's one or two gobbling birds make it. As recruitment expands so does hunting opportunity.

I’m not gonna write a book though I could. I fell in love with Dave’s videos way before the Pinhoti Project because he chased turkeys “right” and inspired me to work to be a better caller. I haven’t been doing it as long as many on here, but I am a self-proclaimed “Lord’s annointed” as Mr. Kelly would say. I have a very deep admiration for God’s creation of the wild turkey, I killed em every way possible when I started, and it didnt take me too long to dive headlong into adding ethics-only based rules to myself on how I was gonna pursue them. I bet my mentor would testify that when he and I had a short-lived dabbling in fanning up turkeys for the first time and killed a few that I called us out on what a shortcut/lessening/instant gratification/cheating way of killing such a majestic creature that it was. I only use that as a single example to say that I humbly believe that I “get it”as a whole.

With all that said, I honestly believe that you have tossed the pearls of what we do to the swine Dave and they have trampled and crapped all over them. I do believe you had the best of intentions when you started Pinhoti, with a worthy goal of overshadowing the aforementioned methods and cheapening of turkey hunting. Unfortunately, in the sorta necessary evil of promoting yourself (social media etc.) in order to be able to do it, the pigs care not about how you killed him. But this self-worshipping culture that we live in LOVES to get behind his dead arse, smoke a cigar or put one out right by his beautifully colored head, hold them spurs up to the sky background (even if they shot him out of the damn truck or from behind a fan), and rush to post it on social media. WAY more about the attention they seek than what it is really about. IE they have attached to the worst part of what you do instead of the good. And you are doing WAY more damage than good IMHO.

Maybe the state should allow us to trap on WMA during turkey season. It’s open state wide on coons and coyotes and would be taking them out at the perfect time. Right now you have to stop Feb 28 which makes no sense and very few people do it.

as a YouTube turkey hunting video content creator, i've taken a conservation-minded approach to hunter recruitment -- all the ones I've gotten interested in turkey hunting suck as bad or worse than me and don't kill chit ... so i've done my part to preserve the flocks for the future ...

I appreciate your comment. I have attempted to address each point with my perspective. I challenge my way of thinking daily- am I doing the right thing? what could I change to do better? should I reconsider this? should I abandon that? My approach is always up for tailoring. Again, that's why I engage in forums such as this one when many would not due to their overall toxicity.

These forums can be incredibly toxic, no doubt. I'm hoping we can construct some positivity here though.

I agree. Legalities are a fine line in which we must toe during this time of turkey population troubles. I'd rather not see anyone's tactics infringed upon but for the sake of the resource I'm afraid it must be so. It's an alternative to loosing days and bag limits, my solely unscientific opinion. If we were making a surplus of turkeys it wouldn't need to be considered hence the reason I believe that should be our primary focus. Most critics of my position taunt the same "for sake of the resource," some are genuine (the reason I'm here) but most are not.

I understand the issue with stopping earlier and the voids being filled by other predators. But, removing a number of nest predators lowers the overall density so nesting success should improve to a point. I’m a believer in raise more turkeys to have more turkeys.

My main frustration is with the lazy management practices recently put in place throughout most of the turkeys range. The easiest target for regulation is legal gobbler harvest. This is being done, in my opinion, so the agencies can be seen as “doing something “. More poults are produced by trapping predators, and those extra turkeys are fed and kept healthy by planting chufas. These things cost money. Private land owners and leasers pay for it, because they love turkeys and turkey hunting. Imposing stricter regulations on legal gobbler harvest lowers incentive for the folks to spent their time and money. Less coons dead and less chufas planted. Easy solutions present themselves, such as using some of the corn lottery money on a bounty for coon and possum tails. Every turkey manager knows this will have a real-time, positive impact on poult recruitment, but the geniuses in charge of the resource will laugh you out of the room for mentioning it. Dave, I would personally like to see you use your platform to promote sound management practices, such as burning, trapping, and planting. Maybe it will help, but I think the DNR leadership (at least in Bama) are just like the rest of the politicians. They are in love with the sound of their own voice. Keep doing whatever you want to do, this is America. But don’t be surprised when the ol boys get ill watching you give away for free what they had to spend a lifetime earning.

Dave I appreciate you taking the time to come on here to share your prospective with this group. I do not know what the right answers are as I can see both sides of the coin. I personally think the increased pressure/numbers of hunters are a bad thing for the public land hunter and dwindling turkey population for many of the reasons already pointed out. I honestly feel sorry for the guys that only have public land to hunt. If that were my only choice these days, I'd go back to bass fishing.

I could get on board with increasing hunter numbers if these state agencies were truly using the surplus money generated for land purchase and research to find the answer to the problem, poult production!! I have seen several very educated people fail to bring that to the forefront when the opportunity was available to do so! With that said, I feel like the state of Alabama currently has the most incompetent leader in our game and fish departments history of existence. Under his leadership the state of Alabama is screwed in my personal opinion.

The game and fish agencies across much of the country have become politized and it's very unfortunate. Money is wasted and robbed, therefore never being utilized for the research and things you mention. Most states can't afford to hire CO's to enforce the current regulations on the books. I simply do not see the money generated from increased hunter recruitment/license sales being utilized for the necessary things that it should be used for.

I am one of the very people that cast shadow towards the turkey doc "Chamberlain". The man and his work simply do not impress me. He has spouted off a hypotheses (Dominate Gobbler) that is unproven!!! Several state agencies has taken this hogwash as the gospel and ran with it. He is one of the very folks that failed to mention poult recruitment as the number one issue with a declining turkey population. Until these state agencies and biologist bring that glaring issue to the forefront, they will never fix the problem. Arkansas is a prime example, adjusting hunting season and bag limits have failed them miserably. Why do these state agencies continue to throw the same crap against the wall and hope it sticks??

I will no longer support the NWTF because of what they have become. I will not support TFT for the simple fact I asked them how my money would be spent if I contributed to their cause. Never received a reply from those folks. Also their mission statement is vague and along the same lines as the NWTF. I personally want to support a group that their mission is to get answers to poor poult recruitment. I don't think working with state agencies that are politized will accomplish much in the current environment.

Out of all this that has taken place there is one positive, I've learned that we aren't producing turkeys, my eyes have been opened to that fact. I need to do more to help the turkeys on the property I control. In my personal opinion a little bit of effort can make a difference.

I have addressed most of the concerns with another perspective that probably does nothing but create more questions. That's kind of the way I find every issue surrounding this goes. For every answer I think I am coming up with, another 2 questions originate. I hope my responses aren't seen as combative. We share many of the same concerns. I've just tossed and turned for hours at night while I should have been sleeping, trying to approach these issues from every angle attempting to make the correct choices.

The important question is....Does Dave Owens put sugar in his cornbread?

Again, correlation. Not causation. There are many factors at play here. I will accept some of the blame. But I will not apologize for motivating or creating more turkey hunters. Another viewpoint, the increase in turkey hunters will save our opportunities. Turkey numbers once upon a time were thought to be, "mission accomplished, they'll take care of themselves from here on out." The current environment says that belief was a mistake. Our invigorated crowd has pushed turkeys to the top of the species in which agencies and wildlife professionals will funnel their attentions. And it's very likely that the mistakes of the past may never happen again.

To address your other mention that I though was interesting concerning the "secrecy" of turkey hunting. Many point to the likes of Tom Kelly, Gene Nunnery, among others in telling the tales of old turkey hunting. Thank goodness these gentlemen had the foresight to realize without the distribution of the knowledge and understanding they acquired over lifetimes of hunting- the potential for that hunting to withstand the test of time was bleak. They used pen and paper which we have now replaced with keyboards. They used the social media of their era to administer the principles and traditions that should govern turkey hunting. How could one that kills turkeys, speaks lightly and recruits no one be productive for our sport? That should be viewed as pure selfishness. I'm thankful the before mention authors were not of that crowd.

Again, this response is not intended to challenge or attack. I'm providing my stance regardless of how skewed some may feel my intentions are.

Mike, I appreciate your voice on this issue and know that your actions back up your words. I can't comment on Dave's message because I have watched less than 30 minutes of his product and none of THP or the others mentioned. I just don't watch any hunting shows either on over-the-air or internet. I do watch videos from the likes of Dr Grant Woods and videos from the MSU Deer Lab and some that Dr Craig Harper has been a part of. I've also recently taken to listening to podcast from some of those just mentioned and others in the realm of habitat management and trapping.

From personal experience I've seen what an aggressive nest predator removal program can do. On a river bottom property that always had turkeys to seeing no flocks in the fall for years and only hearing a few birds gobble in the spring. After removing 150 nest predators in a year seeing at least 2 hens with 19 poults the following spring. Continued trapping and now see turkeys in good numbers but nothing like the past. Recruitment is the key. Hopefully I can get fire in the areas where it's appropriate and herbicide applications in the areas that cannot be burned.

It's not as much "Dave Owens" that is causing the issues. If you were to ask me this 3-4 years ago my answer would have been different, though.

Personally, I HATE the YouTube culture and the way hunting has become a part of it. I long for the days when you could only watch hunting via the outdoor channel or by buying videos at the store. There's no way in hell the hunting video folks (real tree, primos, mossy oak, etc) are putting out those videos on the shelf like they used to. They are all on YouTube now.

I hate how the public land concept has been glorified and I hate the way Dave has done it along with all the other characters that are YouTube famous.

Some folks only have access to public land. Some folks have access to private land, but choose to spend their days hunting at the WMA's because its more fashionable to post your kill pics in front of the gate.

Don't kid yourself. The majority of the videos is about THE KILL...and making sure everyone sees it, and how you do it. Turkey hunting is difficult and you are exceptionally good at it. I'm not saying you're not providing good insight regarding other topics along the way, but that really does not appear to be the focus of the videos from the ones I have seen.

I now live in the quota hunt world being that I live in Florida. I’ve hunted both turkey and ducks on quota and non quota land. The hunting is infinitely better in the quota hunt areas. The quota turkey hunt I went on this year looks exactly like the habitat I hunt in open permit places. It is comparable in size and they don’t do anything different habitat management wise. On the quota hunt I heard at least 12 different birds in 2 days and my buddy and I both killed mature birds. Only 2 weekends are open for this quota and 7 birds were killed off this property. I hunted about 10 days on 3 different open permit wma’s and only heard one gobble and saw 2 hens the entire time. Habitat type is comparable, location is similar, habitat management is the same. The only difference is the amount of hunters they allow and the harvest numbers. If days of the season and killing turkeys isn’t a factor in population why is there such a large difference in the quality of the hunt on quota vs non quota hunts? It makes sense to me at least in what I’ve witnessed that killing less turkeys and hunting less days improves the quality of hunting on WMA’s. It makes since to me that shortening the season and lowering bag limits would clearly improve the population. IMHO I would rather go on 1 great turkey hunt a year than go on 10 where I don’t see or hear anything.

And more quotas, shorter seasons, lower bag limits, and further nonresident/public land restrictions are being done to offset the flood of people brought to our local wmas/national forests by YouTube hunters loose lip policy. The data is clear as day. And game managers around the country go on far less information to make decisions I promise you. Many concerned hunters speaking out are either past or present dnr employees myself included. Your taking away my public hunting opportunity because you want to hunt for a living. You may be hunting and filming for no charge but their is a price to be paid. We are reaping what you’ve sown. And frankly the money being made vs the damage done to public turkeys/hunter opportunity isnt close to equal. Turkeys and Turkey hunters are being sold out for pennies on the dollar frankly. And it’s a shame. You dang well know it too.

Cove, please help me understand what “good for the resource” — an expression you use repeatedly— means to you. It ain’t like turkeys are on the verge of going extinct. They exist over a wider area and in places where they never did before. They are not going to disappear if you and the rest of us stop hunting them. Sure, I’d like for them to be more numerous, but that’s me and that’s me imposing my values, not necessarily what is good for turkeys.

How are you doing what’s good for the resource???

Raising money for gobble counters and tagging hens to see where they go and where they don’t isn’t getting it done. The research is done on what it takes to produce more turkeys. If you manage the property for turkeys, everything benefits. The doc’s research won’t let him say predator control= more turkeys but it will let him say a delayed season or one less male bird killed a year will. The money raised by hunters’ dollars, directly or indirectly, should be put into what is proven throughout history to work. The state already has the equipment and pays the personnel. Buy the diesel and the land it takes and manage it to support a wild turkey instead of the rabbit thickets that infest most of the south. Give timber company incentives to burn their properties that blanket the south. I live around public land that is maintained through burns and tsi on regular basis, and is as crowded as any I’ve seen, yet the turkey numbers are there. They are educated and hard to kill, but there are turkeys everywhere. There’s private land across the south that are hunted harder and that kill way more gobblers than any wma and they aren’t running out of birds to hunt.

My only question is what happened to a Chubbs? The videos went way downhill without him……

He answered that in one of his posts above.

I'm a third generation turkey hunter. I have been chasing them for over 5 decades myself. I have read this entire thread. You seem like a nice guy and I have watched some of your videos as well as Catman, THP, etc. You did not recruit me as a hunter. I have friends that have been traveling for decades hunting public land and their story is all the same. Public land is quickly being ruined for turkeys by the amount of newbies. They all see it as an exploitation of a public resource paid for by taxpayer dollars. More turkey hunters does not equal more turkeys. I wish you well and hope your not mad but I see you doing more damage than good to a sport that has been a part of me, other relatives, friends, my Father and Grandfather's lives.

I dont watch many of these public land hunting videos except some that were posted here and were about folks coming to hunt Alabama. Im not sure which one it was but it showed 2 guys chasing turkeys and get on a bird another hunter had gobbling.

Sure enough the other Alabama public land hunter had the birds gobbling and coming, there were 2 or 3 gobblers together.

These guys then used the terrain and set up BETWEEN the hunter and the birds and shot a gobbler without making hardly one call if any. They even mentioned that the birds were coming to that other guys calls and then rushed to set up on them between the hunter and gobblers. I was disgusted to be honest. I think that was the last one I watched.

It could have been the other youtube guys that some of yall post here, with the long haired guy, but to me if portrayed everything WRONG about public land hunting.

I know they were happy about their "Alabama Bird" But some local guy who scouted and located them, who did his homework with a limited resource and then got them gobbling and working sure must not have been happy hearing them sneak in on his hunt and shoot the birds he was working.

Chances are he just worked off a night shift or took a vacation day to hunt em as well. Nature of the beast these days here4fun I’m with you but it happens everywhere.

Traveling all over the country wholesale slaughtering turkeys and encouraging others to do the same…..then talking about “the resource” is baffling to me.

One statistic I'd love to know the answer to (although I doubt there's any reasonable way to get an accurate estimate) is what percentage of these newly recruited hunters that are apparently flooding public lands stick with it more than a year or 2. I ask because, frankly, turkey hunting is hard. And it's exponentially harder on public land than on private land for a variety of reasons. I can't help but think that a lot of these "new hunters" watch some videos that make it look a lot easier than it actually is, go out and give it a try only to get their ass kicked a few times and say "f--- it, I'll go fishing". That's why I don't get too worked up over the youtube thing...the kind of folks that are only flooding to areas because of some youtube videos likely won't be there long.

I mean, you'd have to be a brainless, window-licking IDOT to go out year after year chasing these damn birds on public land with virtually no success, and continue to do it....

Yep. And then to have the hubris to suggest that he’s somehow upholding a simpler way of hunting turkeys in the tradition of the early icons. All the while using modern technology and advantages never conceived of by Gene Nunnery and others.

I mean, you'd have to be a brainless, window-licking IDOT to go out year after year chasing these damn birds on public land with virtually no success, and continue to do it....

That just made my day Gomer. I'm LMAO

Wasn’t it Catman had that lil girl launch one off a tree?

Also, I'm SURE all these YouTube heroes are applying for commercial photography permits when hunting on USFS lands and state lands.

What would be cool is for the you tubers to do a full season and not kill any birds. Get video footage of the birds and distance from the camera, etc. Basically do everything except take the animal. I think that would be a cool series showing that they could’ve taken the bird but did not.

I think they should try counting coup on camera.

The fact of the matter is that none of the YouTube guys are going to stop now because the videos, sponsors and brands they have built is funding their traveling hunting habit. I’m a capitalist so I can’t say I blame them but we’re not going to convince anyone to stop.

I’m sure you’re right and they won’t stop. But their sponsors might take note. #cancelculture

Pot calling the kettle black from a guy that has a YouTube channel that hunts on public land

No viewers = No Sponsors = No $

I'm a capitalist as well but, they are using a public resource for profit paid for by taxpayers (you and I). Would it be cool to go cut trees and sell them on these lands? Go make videos on leased or private property. People been doing that for years and making money.

Well, I do have a YouTube channel but I haven’t uploaded anything since July 2020 and have no plans to continue. I’ve mentioned several times on here that I learned my lesson the hard way. Even with my very small following I realized I was having a negative effect on myself and others. People knew who I was, what I drove and where I hunted.

Hi Nathan,
So glad you could make it. I assume you've already rallied your band of . . . let's call them "contributors" for lack of a better term (I'm sure they're already here, I'm working through this thread one reply at a time). I've anticipated your input considering your involvement in every single facebook group, hunting forum, and any other platform that would allow you to deliver your "infinite wisdom" regardless of it's merit. All of this coming through those wretched social media outlets you claim to despise while sharing your travels and turkey killing sprees from across the country none the less. So lets address your comments below





For those that have made it to this point the reply, I apologize if this came across as jaded and brash. If this forum is your only outlet for media content it would be good to know Nathan and this small (but loud) band of sidekicks consistently attacks myself along with any other YouTube contributors (although they have their favorites) with malicious intent. This becomes increasing obvious when despite our most genuine efforts to address their concerns and follow through with our promises, the attacks keep coming. Since the day Nathan traveled to Wisconsin and "was forced" to turn around because the pressure was too great for him, we have been the sole focus of his attacks. The blame had to go somewhere and of course, the admittance that he was bested by the turkeys and perhaps didn't show up as prepared as necessary were not options. Perhaps there wasn't any backup pins dropped for additional options when plan A or B were occupied, I'm foggy on the details. What's essential to know is there are no lengths he will not reach to impair the progress the popularity of hunting is making simply due to the fact he dislikes those involved. You can see this in his backhanded attempts at compliments above. I hope the nuggets of "I'll be glad when hunters quit" and "you've caused a crap show of traveling to turkey hunt" in his comments show his true motives in being contentious. When we realize there is good that will emerge from this bad the entire machine will be more productive. Is there a necessity to tailor the way things are presented through content creation, possibly. I'm always open for considerations. When the curtains are drawn on this thing, if there are fewer turkeys than when I arrived it's entire existence will be a failure in my eyes. I'm not prepared to watch that happen.

With all that being said, I again offer you, Nathan, an opportunity to let bygones be bygones. Help me help wild turkeys through whatever productive avenues we can open up. Reach out to your colleagues I have already spoken to within the agency and lets expand on the ideas many of us are already spearheading. Let's figure out how to ear-mark funding. Let's research ways to concentrate volunteer efforts and work around legalities so they can do more. Lets do good while there is time.

This is happening. There was a #savethepoults movement last year. Lots of new involvement/ interest in trapping. New content will no doubt be created to fuel that progress with this upcoming season. Supposedly Duke couldn't make traps quick enough last year- let's hope they're preparing for this one.

Then give me advice on where to begin at changing their minds? I hope we can agree that exposure to "the right way" is necessary. Otherwise, where are these guys ever going to find guidance? is the extinguishing of the cigar distasteful? It'll stop. The content surrounding turkeys is coming, do we just let the savages take over and litter the web with fuel for anti-hunting along with smearing our beloved resource disrespectfully in the public's face? I'm genuinely asking for answers.

I'm on board with that (I thought it was extended until March 6 in Alabama) along with getting some organizations to put together some sort of initiative to motivate more trapping.

This platform has been readily used for habitat improvement and predator trapping promotion. I'm also in direct contact with the agency's wildlife professionals working to provide positive change that will greatly benefit turkeys. Involvement with conservation organizations such as Turkeys for Tomorrow has also occupied much of my time. I hope of the amount of people willing to hop on an internet forum and complain put forth half of that effort in donations and volunteer work assisting in making more turkeys. I have a feeling when that happens (along with a couple favorable weather patterns through nesting season) these turkey issues we face will disappear. Not speaking to you directly. Appreciate your comment and agree, large overhaul in management practices is necessary.

I wish my name wasn't on this post in its early stages but it is, I can't change that. I loved everything about pinhoti because Dave seemed to think exactly how I thought about turkeys. I watched every video and every post that was made and ranked Dave up with the guys I use to watch on VHS tapes 30 years ago. I never knew it would've done what it did to the sport but it did, I honestly can't say that I blame Dave for doing what he's doing but at what cost. YouTube influencers have recruited Turkey hunters to a magnitude not ever seen and the resource cant keep up with the demand. I've known deerhunter1988 for years and know hes dedicated his life to conservation of the resources. From the start all hes asked for is quit naming states but none would listen. He didn't have to show everyone the obvious what it was doing to the public land turkey hunter. I no longer watch or follow hunting on social media. It would be nice if we could come together and fix what's been done.

Soooo, about those public land filming permits....

If Dave stops making his videos there’s just going to be some other poor guy doing it for everyone to pile on. Keep up the passion and hard work. Looking forward to next year’s videos already.

First off - well said Dave! Your fingers must be bleeding! As much as I don't like the concept of "youtubers" doing hunting videos, I disliked the hunting videos of the 90's, 80's, 70's, etc just as much. I admit I am a selfish turkey hunter and don't really want more folks involved in the sport. I never watched the VHS videos and don't watch many youtuber vids. The exception has always been Pinhoti for 2 reasons. First, I thought Dave would fit right in with the guys I hunt with, primarily for reason 2. He tries to kill a turkey the "right" way and has (and shows it) a tremendous respect for the bird. He also has the guts to come on here and defend himself to the whiners on here who simply bitch but never have solutions. These guys are the reason I don't post on here often anymore. Too much negativity and armchair biologists - just search my posts from a few years ago. Dave convinced me a while ago that he was in this to influence turkey hunters to appreciate the hunt, respect the animal and not just be in it for the kill and to personally help how he could to increase turkey populations.

Second, Chamberlain. I have been tempted to post on here when he is being slammed but don't want to get into another internet argument with one of the above. That being said, unlike many of those on here that bitch and whine about him, he has dedicated his time, money, and career to wildlife research. He is an exceptional research biologist and is doing excellent research in a time when there is very little turkey research being done in the southeast (Alabama's last turkey project doesn't count!). Do I agree with all of his conclusions - absolutely not. His dominant gobbler theory is full of holes but he thinks it is plausible. I don't. He also admits it is a theory and does not have good data to support it. BUT that doesn't make him a bad researcher or call into question his motives. He hunts and manages turkeys, not just studies them. I suspect the DG theory will be proven wrong but maybe not. Do I agree with starting seasons later - again, no. But I am open to the possibility until proven one way or the other. I simply don't think it will impact poult recruitment either way. His research on movements, habitat, burning, nest success, how they all interact and relate, etc are groundbreaking and that is enough to make him a great researcher. There are some great research projects in the works to look at answering some of these questions.

More of this research needs to be done, especially here in Alabama. We also have a great researcher at AU that should be doing some independent turkey research as well as some in coordination with Chamberlain. As Dave said, stay tuned for announcement soon from AU, TFT and AWF

Very well said Gobbler

That’s good to hear

Jesus Christ, the turkey forum has become the football forum. Pathetic. Yall sound like a bunch of women

That ol vaccine must of been filled with a double dose of estrogen.

Yall aint called out and threaten to whip Will Primos, Bill Jordan, Jackie Bushman or Michael Waddell. These 4 have been posting hunting videos for decades and the turkeys are still alive. I dont think (Cove can correct me if I am wrong) Pinhotti has reached near the people those guys have reached.

They ALL hunt private/leased property. Apples and oranges there fellow. This thread is about public property being hammered.

No it’s Feb 28 on Skyline and you have to get special permit from area manager. She told me that there isn’t any interest in trapping and rarely gets a request for a permit. The place is too big and rough to go out in the off season and run a few DP traps. If you could put a dozen out during turkey season and check them on the way in or out “turkey season “ I believe a sizable dent could be made in coon population. There’s not much on a WMA as hunter that you can do as a hunter to help. I’ll go to my grave believing the legalization of decoys “2005” was the beginning of the decline. I personally think there’s less pressure on Skyline than there was 20-30 years ago due to the lack of turkeys. I also believe TSS has been bad for the sport because a lot of these newcomers will take a 60-80 yd poke at a hung up bird in a heartbeat. They most often don’t get the gobbler but common sense tells you that birds catching some shot. I use it because it allows me to hunt with 410 but still stick to reasonable ranges.

But they brought new droves of hunters in, which killed droves of gobblers. Public land turkeys go on private land too.

So you think the public land hunters are the reason for the population decline across the country?

But they brought new droves of hunters in, which killed droves of gobblers. Public land turkeys go on private land too.

So you think the public land hunters are the reason for the population decline across the country?
[/quote]

Nope, public land hunters effect public land opportunities. The decline across the country has many factors. I may be wrong but, I thought this thread is about public hunting lands exploitation by a few for money, not the overall decline of the wild turkey. I'm just trying to stay on topic and not wander off on habitat management, predator control, etc.

While we may not agree I can see where you're coming from. The main problem I think a lot of us are concerned with is (Will these loss of opportunities return?) I know I have my doubts, major doubts. One reason I doubt is because with the increase of hunters the flock will need to be bigger just to maintain where its at now. Therefore if we do get the the ball rolling the right way, we very well may just end up at the position of balance, (a flock that could withstand the new pressure but cant expand enough to take on additional pressure of relaxing the regs) this would make agencies keep the new regs in place. For instance, I've long hunted Mississippi as a NR, its the closest place for me to have decent turkey hunting. I've always happily paid for the license etc and even champion for paying more. Hunters don't pay enough and bark at little increases while spending fortunes on other flashy S****. No matter how many turkeys the state grows from this point on I am very reluctant to think they would ever remove the draw requirements being implicated, Due to resident voices and there still being more pressure then there was before.

There should be Public land permits not just WMA permits, and for the acreage we can hunt it should be a min $100. This money could go a LONG way to helping the resource. Trapping would help if we could do it during turkey season, but many are like me and don't have the time to travel hours to trap, Ik that sounds ironic but its just the truth. The closets half decent turkey hunting to me is 3 hours away. I have to pull a lot of stuff to get off work to hunt some for those two months, I and many cant do it all year. However we could fund these agencies wayyyy better. Sell the permits and earmark the money for certain things. Hell the wardens and biologist are under paid, we could earmark money for trapping. Maybe they would do a lot of trapping themselves too if they could get $5 per rodent turned in, and they in the field already daily??? Bonus money for those who want or need to make more?

More hunters aren't always bad but I feel social media brought a diff type, maybe I'm wrong idk. I think the best way to get more hunters that align with the old school mentality is by friends taking out more friends. The old school way for the old school style. However I've been burned like that many times too by being run out of my own spots by so called friends. Hell I enjoy the videos myself, guilty as charged, but I think the location naming could go differently and help. Just like the old videos didn't flood the public land like now. That's due to peoples doubt, (I cant do like those guys, they have fancy private land) therefore I'm not going . The ones who don't have such doubt and go out trying on their own are a different breed that I believe more so align with the old way. The brand new only social media flames are the new culture by large.

Gobbler I value your opinion as I have always felt you have been a straight shooter on here with us. I appreciate you posting the above information as I was not aware of this information. Guys like yourself and Dave are in the know and I appreciate y'all sharing what information you can. I am guilty of jumping on the whining and complaining ban wagon. I am going to refrain from posting any more on threads such as these and hope what you and Dave are saying about the future gives us some answers in the near future.

An add that a lot of folks don’t consider:
Dominant Gobbler Theory is not exactly new. Pretty sure Ken Morgan referred to it in some of his writing.

I’m so thankful CNC doesn’t visit the turkey forum 🤦🏿🤦🏿🤦🏿

Now that sh1ts funny!!!!!!!!!
lol

I’m so thankful CNC doesn’t visit the turkey forum 🤦🏿🤦🏿🤦🏿


Now that sh1ts funny!!!!!!!!!
lol

You said his name 3 times...

Very valid observation and one I don't think many can dispute. Less hunting pressure (less disturbance) and less harvest coupled with quality habitat will provide more fruitful experiences. I think it's the key observation many have that empowers the desire to reduce season length and bag limits. It gets more complicated when we realize that we must balance the amount of opportunities along with the health of the resource in that, if we aren't allow to turkey hunt but once every 3 years- how many people are going to even continue turkey hunting (very extreme example obviously)? Then if the resource falls in it's significance as a "money-maker" for our agencies, will their challenges be address adequately? I would really like to see opportunity cut as a last resort but no one should be able to disagree with its effectiveness. The real questions that have to be answered (research pending) is whether other options exist to make more turkeys and provide more fruitful opportunities while making minimal changes to opportunity. In other words, I still think we can "have our cake and eat it too."

If you're a DNR employee you should be familiar with the way conservation is funded. Hunters equal money. Money is needed to do everything. The habitat improvements that are necessary on a VERY large scale across the country as well as research that must be initiated to help us figure out why our production has been on an downhill slide for over a decade are a couple of those things. Has the increase in the popularity moved more hunters onto public land. I have never denied that fact. And again, I would like to request when I have ever "loose-lipped" a wma or national forest? Has it been done? I'm sure of it. You can find it by hoping over to your NWTF media platform now and sit down with a nice hunt where the national forest name is littered throughout. Their situation is entirely different than YouTubers admittedly but the exposure is out there none the less. I have and will continue to wholly agree hotspotting of specific locations is a big black eye. It shouldn't be done. But I hope we can agree that turkey hunters needed to be motivated in order to recognize and combat the issues the turkey populations are facing. They needed to be made aware of the severity if gone unattended to and the avenues they can use to assist. New NWTF chapters are popping up, new organizations are forming in TFT, fundraisers and raffles by agencies have become a thing- all of this made possible due to an increase in the amount of exposure given to turkeys and the amount of people that have willing to help.

Black = Cove's response to my initial post
Red = My response





Hi Nathan,
So glad you could make it. I assume you've already rallied your band of . . . let's call them "contributors" for lack of a better term (I'm sure they're already here, I'm working through this thread one reply at a time). I've anticipated your input considering your involvement in every single facebook group, hunting forum, and any other platform that would allow you to deliver your "infinite wisdom" regardless of it's merit. All of this coming through those wretched social media outlets you claim to despise while sharing your travels and turkey killing sprees from across the country none the less. So lets address your comments below
Firstly, I posted on here to see how you would respond on an open forum VS. our face to face meeting. And as I suspected, response did vary on a few subjects. So, LOTS of veteran public land/traveling turkey hunters share similar sentiments as me in regards to YouTube/social media's effects on public land turkey hunting. Plenty of whom I don't know. They can be found on every serious turkey forum and inside all of our turkey hunting 'circles'. That ought to be your first sign right there that something may have gone astray in your pursuits. Yup, I've been speaking up on forums and social media so other hunters can follow along with what is happening. I'm not looking out for Nathan, I'm looking out for every public land turkey hunter out there who is losing opportunity or experiencing worse than ever crowds that can be attributed to YouTube/social media. I do find it humorous that you still claim "I'm at fault too" (verbatim from our meeting) for sharing photos on Facebook that only my friends can see and some photos on a half-satire Instagram account with <300 followers. Come on man, you can't claim to remotely believe that is the same thing. However I am at fault for possibly divulging too much in forum posts way back back in the day. A decade ago, I did post all of my turkeys on my home forum. Up until a couple years ago, I posted some turkeys on my home forum. Plenty of us did but the audience was an extremely small fraction of what it is now and the repercussions were NOTHING like we are currently experiencing. It honestly dumbfounds me that such a smart and savvy guy as yourself uses that comparison as a defense.


How I display my hunts are always under evaluation. I'm always up for suggestions for change. You've screamed this state naming jargon time and time again. I've considered it. I can't even tell you if it's completely off the table. But what I do know is that it will not cause you or your mob to cease in undermining any accomplishment anyone from YouTube achieves. You'll simply pick another insignificant facet to attack us over and continue right on down the same ole road. You're supposedly a "numbers guy" so check out the numbers on these 2 photos pulled straight from my analytics


YouTube Search

Search Keywords

So just so you understand those numbers. That means less than 11% of my viewers get there due to a search which you insist is causing massive crowds. Then of that percentage- if anyone is searching for Mississippi turkey hunting or Alabama turkey hunting the number is so small is doesn't even show up in the analytics (granted this is from the last 28 days, I can't get full channel analytics from such specific parameters). Will I change the way I word my video titles, I can't be certain as of right now, never say never right? I can say I don't see it's significance as long as whomever is posting the video takes the effort to ensure the specific location is protected. The truth is, people across the country are excited about turkey hunting, period. So they're making their way to states like MS, AL, GA and FL because that's where they're allowed to hunt. I'll gladly take credit for some of the new enthusiasm behind turkey hunting if you wish- I will not apologize for it- but accessibility is why these states see the non-residents early. They want to hunt and that's where it happens. If we had a supply surplus to match the demand there would be no issue. And to extend that train of thought, I've hunted every state with a March opener since Pinhoti became a thing, why would my presence being in any specific state matter? I've had exceptional hunts in each state. They're all great hunting. But circling back, turkey hunting has been/ continues to be life changing for me. If I expose a single individual out there amongst the "evil interwebs" to a passion they would have otherwise died without I'm satisfied. And I suppose that means I'm willing to continue to debate senseless points with the likes of you as well. So we will carry on. . .


I think you'd be surprised how many people would be extremely appreciative of you for not naming states. If its so "insignificant" and "senseless" why not give it a trial run for a few years? How come so many other veteran public land/travel turkey hunters share the same opinion as I? I guess we all just lack sense?

Cannot see the photos you tried to post and would appreciate it if you could re-post. I'd be much more interested in seeing data during the time period when people actually have turkey hunting on their minds. Really wish you had access to those metrics. It isn't strictly the search I insist that is causing massive crowds? There are various ways to get to your videos and people are more apt to click if its a state of their interest. Do I think it will hurt your views? Yeah, I think you will lose a small number of views. But you've done a great job at building a significant fan following who will watch your videos regardless. So why not give it a trial run?

I found it interesting that you didn't use the "I'm a traveling turkey hunter whose built my brand on hunting multiple states so i'm going to continue to name states" line that you used when we met in person.

Majorly huh. . . I'm assuming you have more concrete numbers from an anonymous source to confirm the value of majorly? You don't. First off because majorly doesn't have a value and because they don't exist. There have been so many advancements and changes to the scene of hunting within the last handful of years working simultaneously it would be impossible to designate percentages. Does YouTube factor into a part of the percentage? Absolutely. I've said that, repeatedly.

Nope, no concrete numbers, sorry. The mentioning of an "Anonymous source" leads me to believe you are questioning other data i've gathered. Any data regarding license sales/application numbers i've presented have came straight from state game agencies and I'd be more than happy to provide. This information is normally free to anyone who requests it (Alabama wants to charge $50 for it and you must be a resident to do the request). I am glad to see you are finally admitting that YouTube is in fact causing damage.


Nice opinion. Mine is that YouTube gives people the motivation, OnX (or huntstand or the GIS maps most state agencies offer now) give people the confidence and Covid gives those people the time. Time to create lasting, unforgettable memories much like the ones you and I tell about our turkey hunting adventures while sitting around a campfire, am I right? I reckon we should be the only ones allowed to do this?

I have never once denied that mapping maps and COVID haven't played a factor. But hearing those excuses time and time again gets old. Especially since non-resident sales in several states were already rising before COVID. We all should be allowed to enjoy it. But when Joe Blow who doesn't have the means to travel loses most of his turkey season and has a greatly diminished quality of hunt due the new waves of increased pressure put on the public land resource, things need to be reeled in a bit.

Just an FYI, in case it needs to be said, Chubbs has no issues taking his Alabama gobblers annually despite what you may think. Was it a surprise that he has seen increased pressure? Did you think while everyone else is seeing pressure he wasn't? I laugh at the fact that people pretend hunting pressure didn't exist before 2019. You can see us deal with it on multiple occasions and actually more in AL and GA before we released the first season. It was one of the points we wanted to address in the videos- pressure- and how you were to deal with it -right or wrong- I've accomplished both in my time with the camera. Showing the necessity in avoiding crowded gates when possible and treating fellow hunters with respect. And also illustrating that public land (and hunting in general) isn't all rainbow and unicorns. In one situation we had a guy blow a gobbler out of the tree after telling us he would back out (he came up behind us). I hope that video taught some unknowing turkey hunter to "not be that guy."

Once again, putting words in my mouth. Don't know a thing about Chubbs or the gobblers he kills. I was just referencing what he said on a podcast (and it was a great one!) I laugh at the fact you act like hunting pressure hasn't increased since 2019. We all deal with the pressure. I have a vast network of traveling turkey hunters just like you and 90% of them would vouch for the pressure increases they've witnessed.

I appreciate how you address dealing with pressure in your videos. Definitely a good point people can learn from.

That being said- what Chubbs eluded to was the importance of keeping the areas we video in concealed. Can you point me toward an Alabama video on my channel where our location was exposed? Without local knowledge, its highly doubtful. As I stated before, if I screw up I'm not too proud to accept fault. But I don't think this is one of those times. Concealment has ALWAYS been of utmost importance for us.

I haven't watched any episodes since May of 2020 so I can't speak to the recent ones. But in the early ones, you talk about the mountains. I'm decently well versed in geography and know that northeast Alabama is the only region that has what i'd consider "mountains". And when you lived in Cedartown and hunted Alabama in the mornings before work, it could reasonably be inferred you were hunting within an hour or two's drive of Cedartown. But i admit, the majority of folks don't dig that deep or use that reasoning.

It'd be ludicrous of me to place northeast Bama blame on you just by mentioning "mountains" or using the logic referenced above. And I don't blame you for that region. Its the other careless YouTubers hunting it that really screwed the pooch there.

And you do the best job of concealing out of any of the mainstream YouTubers!


I suppose I'm missing the "gotcha" here and perhaps we are touching on your real issue with YouTubers. You don't like seeing other people on "your" public land combined with it's not your brand they're displaying on their hats or the back windows. People purchase and display a brand they can affiliate with- folks wear a Braves hat because they like Freddie Freeman, they wear the MossyOak emblem because they live the lifestyle. I hope people wear the Pinhoti logo because they want to be affiliated with a brand that represents an absolute passion for everything turkey worn by a guy that has given up d@m+ near everything for the opportunity to chase and help them as much as he can on his trip through life. But lets circle back to the imperative nature of keeping locations disguised since we are on the topic of IRONY. Why have you refused to apologize for a lapse of your own? I have openly apologized for any screw-up I've ever made. Or do you even see a problem with it? are your actions exempt? You were quick to point out my unwillingness to quit naming states when I invited you to dinner last month but failed to mention the other conservation initiatives I was tackling this off season; so I thought it was worth mentioning your refusal to accept fault in this meme. Why is this still available for anyone's viewing pleasure?

Ironic Photo

Well, I have no brand so I guess you are inferring i'm jealous? As a public land manager, I'd honestly have a hard time sleeping at night if I knew I'd helped contribute to reduced public land hunting opportunities and hunt quality. I was simply stating observations of mine countless others.

It honestly took me a minute to realize what "IRONY" and "lapse" you were referring to because the picture isn't showing. A FREAKING MEME! No, I'm not apologizing for the following meme and find it absolutely hilarious you are still trying to use it as "ammo".




Do we really need to revisit the necessity in keeping locations concealed? And also another request for the video where I have ever mentioned applying for a quota hunt or hunting a specific WMA in Florida. One will notice also when arriving in Florida going off "into the Cypress" is the equivalent of saying "off into the hardwoods" or "into the river bottom." Cypress is a habitat type in Florida, it's everywhere- folks have the freedom to assume all they want. Without local, "I've been there before" knowledge- one would be hard pressed to find our locations. Have the amount of hunters Florida bound in March increased? Yes. Am I a contributor to those numbers? Yes. Probably more so than any other place. Have I questioned whether sharing my hunts in Florida had an overall negative effect? Sure I have. Thankfully, the demands of hunting Florida self-regulate. You yourself said hunting Florida's general access was a no-go for you and I would consider you a avid turkey hunter, willing to do what many wont. And as far as "WMAs in particular I hunt" . . . you would be hard pressed to find a public area in Florida I haven't been on the past 17 years. So "particular" will be comical for those in the know. The friends I have made in Florida see the pressure but are amused by the rhetoric. They're a special breed that hunt that place, they understand what it takes to be consistently successful in that environment and don't ever seem to run into issue with finding their turkeys. I wouldn't trade my worst day in that he!!hole for anything

You haven't mentioned applying for a quota hunt or a specific WMA but folks do digging and find that stuff. You mentioned yourself about folks driving down to Florida to a WMA you hunt and asking others "Do ya'll know where Dave hunts?" Hmmmmmm....

How come you completely ignored the hard data I presented to you in person regarding Florida and wouldn't acknowledge causing an influx of hunters to south Florida? Instead you got extremely defensive and told us numerous times "Florida has always been like that, a madhouse!" and "I've been hunting Florida 15 years!" I actually lost count of how many times you mentioned you'd been hunting Florida for 15 years, don't know what justification you were trying to use there. I've been hunting Florida since 2008 myself.

I'm glad you are finally getting past your "can do no wrong attitude" and willing to admit damage has been done. I hate it for the south Florida residents who went from drawing hunts every couple years to now having to wait 3-4+ years for a decent hunt. And the crowds they have to deal with now.....


Come on man, you're cherry picking words as bad as CNN. "Due to our observations of prolonged poor poult recruitment and our desires to delay harvest as a result. . . now you can insert your - because hunting pressure- piece. News flash- hunting pressure has always been higher on public land. That shouldn't come as a surprise right? While the pressure may have increased, the bigger issue is still a supply problem. It just so happens when this pressure increase happened the supply decreased. If we could focus our efforts on making more rather than passing blame around it would most certainly be a better use of our time. So again, reduced opportunity is due to decreased reproduction (long standing, proven issue) and increased pressure (new issue).

Agreed that it is both a supply and demand problem.

There is so much wrong with your logic. How could any turkey hunter not be concerned with poult recruitment and brood rearing habitat? Why is it so automatic that they can't help with both on public lands? I find it alarming that is your message to public land hunters as a state wildlife biologist. Why aren't you looking for solutions rather than excuses? Why aren't you busy looking for ways to motivate public land users to trap more? how can you say trapping "ain't really gonna change much?" One guy running a dozen dog-proof traps, maybe (although I still say a dead coon doesn't find eggs) -I know what the science says- which is an intensive trapping effort is necessary and precisely why we should be looking to get dozens of public land hunters to run a dozen traps each (or more). If there are that many hunters available to hunt turkeys there should be that many hunters willing to save turkeys.

I'm just a realist. The sad reality is that the majority of public land turkey hunters will never put in the time or effort to assist with the public lands they hunt. Heck, you wouldn't believe how many times we hear folks complain about paying for a $15/$30 WMA user permit to hunt "their land". And the complaints about a certain road not being bush hogged or food plant being planted on time after purchasing that WMA permit! When we both know WMA permits are some of the best bargains out there. The vast majority will take but care a lot less about giving back.

There are a few reasons trapping is very unlikely to change much.
1.) The scale of public lands vs private. On public lands we are generally dealing with thousands or even tens of thousands of acres blocks of land. On private its normally much, much smaller parcels being targeted.
2.) Feeding. Trapping efficacy is going to be much higher on private parcels around feeders that congregate the intended target.
3.) Access. Whereas on private parcels you can just drive right up to your to traps, access on public will often have to be by foot. Carrying traps, bait, etc. will be quite the job!
4.)Users. A lot of public land turkey hunters travel 20-30+ minutes to hunt. They are out 40 minutes to an hour of just travel time if running traps. This is going to consolidate most to only trapping on weekends. If something comes up and they can't check their traps the following day, how feasible is it for them to take off work on Monday to check their traps (which they are bound to by law)?

I could go on, but you get the point.

All that being said, I fully believe in the rewards of an intensive trapping program. I can count on one hand the number of people I know who've underwent intensive trapping efforts over a sustained period and not saw some positive results from the efforts. The public land scale is just SO much larger and without bait on the landscape to set traps near, it really is more difficult to catch the nest predators. How do I know this? On the areas I manage, we emphasize trapping!

I applaud your efforts to get more folks involved on public land management. We could use all the help we can get. On small, localized portions of public lands the public trappers very well may see a benefit. But I stand by my statement that across large landscapes as a whole, we will never be able to get enough public involvement to significantly effect turkey populations. It simply requires too much time and effort that not enough people are willing to put worth. But believe me, I hope someone can prove my previous statement wrong!

And since you mentioned new quotas in Georgia- its a perfect example of the importance of having a "voice" as hunters. Strictly my opinion, but putting such a vast amount of acreage into a quota system in conjunction with removing the first almost 3 weeks of the season is excessive. The concern was the amount of harvest per square mile (while poult recruitment sputtered and yes I have spoke to this biologist) yet area management has opened more and more gates on those areas over the past decade (you can literally drive everywhere now). When asked about reducing harvest through gate closure I got a "we may need to consider that as an option" response. Afterall, the more gates that were opened the more the harvest rose. I'm an advocate for rewarding effort. If a guy is willing to walk 4 miles then he deserves it, at least give him the chance to do so. As one in your clan announced, "I don't think you should have to walk 10 or 11 miles to hear a turkey gobble," I respectfully disagree. I think some days we should absolutely need to put forth that amount of effort and I'm also of the class that. . . we may not hear a turkey gobble every day.[/color]

Agreed. Personally not familiar with but one of those WMAs and was not aware of the newly increased access. I'm of the mindset that we need sanctuaries, spots that critters can go to escape the pressure. Increased access, electric bikes, etc. just help to increase harvest. No argument there at all and I'm an advocate for more closed gates.

BUT, that is just another issue public land managers deal with. Hunters seem to be getting lazier (and granted a lot are just getting older) and want easy access. The vast majority do not want to walk a mile or mile to get to a spot. And these same hunters can be vocal about access and sometimes are able to raise enough stink to get their way. On the contrary, It'd be nice to see advocates for more restricted access to make folks work a little harder for that turkey and create those sanctuary situations previously mentioned. In today's world, the open access advocates are in far greater number.



We will resort to a few more "broken record" responses here due to your reluctance to see the big picture and never waning desire to play the blame game. We have a supply issue. If we work for solutions to the decade old dwindling poult recruitment numbers, we will have enough turkeys to open generous amounts of opportunity. I'm confident in that. Without the exposure to the issues wild turkeys have been facing over the past decade (that had gone ignored), the working man may have been able to live out his days with a turkey to hunt but would his kids? If turkeys hadn't risen to the top of the list of "most concerned" would this working mans grandkids talk about wild turkeys like many old timers do about quail? Yes, losing opportunity sucks. I think many agencies are "playing it safe" as their only option because we don't have the information available to tell them otherwise at the moment. That will change. The only concrete information they have to pull from says that reduced opportunity means reduced harvest. I can only make the assumption attempts are being made to pad carryover numbers (and facilitate that simultaneous nest incubation date) to assist in the overall population reduction until we figure out why our reproduction is lack luster. But, research is underway and I pray it comes with other alternatives. While hunting opportunities may be seeing reductions in some areas, there are still opportunities for those willing to put forth the effort, Florida (which you pointed out) is an example.
Agreed, there is a supply issue in the vast majority of areas across the southeast. And I'm thrilled more people are becoming aware and better educated on the situation.


Nice pat on the back while kicking me in the groin. It's impossible for you to give a compliment huh? It must really be a drain to wake up daily surrounded with such negativity. Much effort has been given to avoid and/ or curb those now chasing death tolls. It's sickening. I have found far fewer than you considering your claim it's "just as many" but will not deny they exist. Unfortunately, there will always be a few bad apples who will lie, cheat and steal to feed their desires. It happens across the globe. We (those of us hunting 20+ years) are probably guilty as well to some degree. I believe wanting to kill kill kill is a part of the maturity of a turkey hunter. I shamefully remember a time when blood was a #1 desire (and this happened without YouTube). Turkey hunters go through phases- it's described in works such as the Old Pro Turkey Hunter which dates back to the authors beginnings in the 1920s. I'm unsure if the phase is even avoidable. We need to make certain that it is just a phase and look to expedite its completion. I've watched some appear to get stuck in that phase (especially if they're showcasing it on YouTube or the like). This mindset also rears it's ugly head in people chasing some type of "slam" regardless of which variety; it's a kill at all cost attitude. It's not productive and is spawned from greed, another undesirable trait. Stress to turkey hunters new and old that it's less to do with the "how many" and more to do with the "overall how." I'm attempting to reach as many turkey hunters as possible with that message. You have never and will never hear me speak of kill counts. I'm asked multiple times a season, "how many does that make for you" or "how many cigars is that now" and you will find those questions fall unanswered. It's not important. I'm trying my very best to show and sell the hunt not the conclusion through my content. The quicker we can rush new hunters through that kill phase the better off the resource will be, causing them to skip it would even be better.[/color]

No, it's not impossible for me to give a compliment. I've given you compliments before and am giving them now where they are due.

1.) You do a lot better job at hiding your whereabouts than other YouTubers
2.) You've brought to light numerous issues facing wild turkey populations that could be attributing to their decline
3.) You've helped introduce folks to a style of turkey hunting they otherwise might not have ever been exposed to
4.) I very much appreciate your efforts towards advancing the conservation of wild turkey
5.) You haven't sold out to OnX (lol)

Hopefully in the coming years the pros will overtake the cons.



Gee, thanks for the compliment-ish, you're still finding that difficult it appears. I can agree with your sentiments regarding a "the sky is falling" mentality (I assume that's what you meant). I don't see it. A slight overall reduction, sure, but not a "mass decline" as put by one of your co-host. But I understand that terminology was necessary for the sell of his narrative regardless of it's implications. I digress. I see the arguments surrounding the turkey decline falling into 3 major groups- the old timers who experienced the boom of the late 90s when turkeys occupied marginal habitat because their populations peaked following the trap and transfer efforts. They expect to still hear 10 or more gobblers each morning and not sit down until they find one that cuts every single call, until then they haven't found one "that's ready." I think this is an unreal expectation unless the agencies get back into the business of trapping and transferring birds again. Even then, I'm not sure we would see those types of responses due to the degradation of habitat since the 90s and I wholly believe those measures are not necessary. The opposite end of the spectrum you have (already discussed within this post) the "instant gratification" crowd. This league of hunters expects results with little to no effort. If they devote a day to something they deserve a reward. This crowd thrives in the dawn of the methodology crutches. But if they are refused success then there is obviously a shortage of turkeys. Again, another wildly misinformed sector. In the middle we have a crowd that does just that, falls in the middle on the issues at hand. I fall there. Do I agree we have an overall decrease in turkey numbers. A dash of that opinion formulated from my own observations but the majority of the opinion falling on accounts received from worthy, trusted sources and the data provided through science (those numbers you love). I strongly agree with your opinion on much of our immediate issues being weather related. It's a contributor to this issue we simply can not fix. There will be good years and there will be bad years. This is why I question the states acceptance of rigid season guidelines for so long. My opinion, we need annual evaluations and differing seasonal frameworks to choose from- perhaps a conservative and liberal framework (jesus, please don't make this political) that will respond to the quality of reproduction and harvest. Essentially, if we made a lot of turkeys open up the opportunity; if we struggled in production restrict the opportunity for the sake of the resource. This type of evaluation already occurs in waterfowl and should be adapted for turkeys. Many issues this type of idea will encounter, starting with our ability to count turkeys, especially poults. But I do not think that is reason enough to pull it from consideration. Frankly, I've grown tired of excuses such as "that requires legislature, it'll be very difficult." Difficult questions often require difficult answers and we have difficult questions. Turkeys need a team of players that are willing to fight through difficultly to implement changes that will prove beneficial. If this means diving into the politics of the environment to battle agricultural practices or the like, sign me up. I'm for the resource and will gladly watch anything I've built go up in flames fighting for it. And as I move on from this topic, I'll mention your negative position for all things "new hunter" evident again in this passage. The "more hunters are reducing my opportunity" argument will find us selfishly standing on the ridgeline, alone much to our pleasure, without a turkey to hunt- much to our displeasure. You are still pointing fingers rather that looking for an answer to our reproductive struggles.

Once again, agreed. We both fall in the middle crowd.

I'd very much be open to managing turkey in the way suggested. A few years of bad reproduction, lets make some adjustments. When populations rebound, lets open it up a bit more again. Unfortunately recent history shows that once hunting opportunity is taken away, it rarely is given back. That is my biggest fear with these current changes.

We can agree on this subject. I too believe there are other options that should be put on the table. Difficulty in action circles back around to getting into agency politics like before mentioned. Let's use the research to get hard numbers to face these opponents, gather a willing number of volunteers to go to war using those numbers and do something productive here while we have an environment filled with concerned turkey hunters. And just an FYI, it's already underway. Many folks (instead of whining on hunting forums) are working tirelessly at searching for answers and proposing changes that will no doubt be beneficial for wild turkeys. Anyone else cut a $35k check to single handedly initiate research? THP has. Also, look for big announcements from TFT in the next week or so (as soon as the paperwork is finalized).
I and many others will agree that the $35,000 check can't make up for what their actions have caused.


I think you can refer to the above on my explanations for the flaw in this logic and it's insignificance. When this doesn't work as well as you imagine (and it won't), you'll then be demanding we not hunt in March or not release turkey content until July. The harsh reality is you will never cease in attempting to derail turkey content because it adds difficultly to your endeavors. You are incapable to accepting failure on your part and instead vigorously search for another place to pass the blame. Because of course, it must be someone else's fault. You'll continue to seethe while smashing the thumbs down on every one of my videos. I understand that, I've accepted that. I realize I can not win over everyone regardless of how intensively I try. It's become apparent some are unable (or unwilling) to step back and see the big picture.

I'd never demand anyone not to hunt in March? Would I support a ban on commercial filming on state owned lands? Yes, I would. I have a major issue with profiting off our public lands at a potential risk to the resource.

You seem to think this is all about ME. It isn't Dave. Perhaps you are so enamored with yourself its difficult to care about the other local public land turkey hunters? I really don't know, but I do know I care about all the public land turkey hunters out there losing opportunity or experiencing reduced hunting quality due to the effects of YouTube and social media. That is part of the big picture to me.



I'll address this comment in 2 parts. Part 1: The possibility of some to become disgruntled due to decreased opportunity and restrictions. I agree, its a possibility. It's unfortunate. I will merely add that individuals whom are likely to quit in that fashion were not motivated from the beginning. They were adding little to the pot with exception of their license. Turkeys were not important enough to them. While I do not wish to see their contributions disappear, regardless of how small, I'm confident the amount of hunters willing to buy their license, become a partner with TFT, purchase an NWTF membership, partake in an agency raffle, volunteer time at their nearest WMA and listen intently to new research findings to help mold seasons and opportunities with their voice far outnumber those willing to give up the trade so quickly. I personally would be willing to move Mount Everest with a teaspoon for the opportunity to sit down on one gobbling in March. I think this ideology can further be doubted when you see the success of organization like RMEF. Their membership is larger than NWTF (if memory serves me correctly) and has a game animal at their core that takes incredible effort in order to get an opportunity (Jesus, please don't let our opportunities to hunt wild turkeys mirror that of elk. Amen.)
Yup, RMEF is a great organization and one of the best in my book. I've been a member for years. I hope TFT and NWTF can some day make it to the same level of success.

Part 2: Your opinion has it that YouTube has turned public land hunting and specifically traveling turkey hunting into a crap show. We have finally come to the root of your entire hatred of the matter. No one should be allowed to travel turkey hunt but Nathan because he was doing it before YouTube. It's become more difficult for Nathan to travel out of state and find turkeys to hunt because it's popular. Be d@m^'d any positivity that comes from it, let's incite war against YouTube because I must work harder. That's my view. As much as you and your small crowd taunt "Dave's only out for himself, he's got a 'he's gonna get his attitude- he!! with everyone else'" I find it amusing at your unwillingness to look in the mirror and accept the truths. I can only hope you guys are devoting as much time looking for answers to our turkey issues as you are attempting to tie the blame to YouTubers. Has the popularity of turkey hunting made public land hunting more difficult in some areas, absolutely, I'm affected as much as anyone. But, I refuse to let small negativities cast shade on an overall positive movement. Turkeys need the eyes and recognition.
That is your opinion and you are welcome to it. Those in my turkey and professional circle know it is far from the truth. I've explained myself previously in this response.

Agreed, turkeys need the eyes and recognition.

And lastly, I find it disgusting as a MS state wildlife biologist you would make comments like "I'm looking forward to the day turkey hunters quit. I'd rather have less turkeys and less hunters. . ." when you of all people should be acutely aware of how important hunters are to conservation. The mission of the Mississippi Department of Wildlife, Fisheries, and Parks is to conserve and enhance Mississippi’s wildlife, fisheries, and parks, provide quality outdoor recreation, and engage the public in natural resource conservation. That sentence copied straight from your agencies "about us." Let me ask you how you plan to "conserve and enhance" when you are advocating for less funding for the agency? How are you "engaging the public in resource conservation" if you frown on every new face that may visit your areas with the potential to become a volunteer? I am not without fault. I carry my share of flaws. I can't undo what's been done. I examine myself routinely to ensure I'm serving as the best example possible given my platform. I strongly suggest you do the same.

Ahhhh, there it is. Been waiting on the professional diss.

You do realize that MDWFP recently recognized an issue in "conserving and enhancing" the resource of public land wild turkeys. And to protect this resource for the residents of the state, had to propose a resolution that would cost the state many dollars? I am DANGED proud of my agency for looking after its residents rather than looking for the dollar. And I fully support this new non-resident proposal. If that makes me a bad guy, so be it. I hate for anyone to lose hunting opportunity, regardless of residency. But when issues arise, they need to be addressed.

We NEED turkey hunters. I never said we didn't. We just don't need ever increasing pressure on our public lands. That is just going to lead to reduced opportunity.

Dude, my job is to literally manage our public land resources and provide recreational opportunities. I'm not going to frown on an individual visiting any of my areas? I routinely help all users, both consumptive and non-consumptive (and gasp, EVEN TURKEY HUNTERS!).

But as I'm guilty of casting stones your way, I fully expect return fire.




For those that have made it to this point the reply, I apologize if this came across as jaded and brash. If this forum is your only outlet for media content it would be good to know Nathan and this small (but loud) band of sidekicks consistently attacks myself along with any other YouTube contributors (although they have their favorites) with malicious intent. This becomes increasing obvious when despite our most genuine efforts to address their concerns and follow through with our promises, the attacks keep coming. Since the day Nathan traveled to Wisconsin and "was forced" to turn around because the pressure was too great for him, we have been the sole focus of his attacks. The blame had to go somewhere and of course, the admittance that he was bested by the turkeys and perhaps didn't show up as prepared as necessary were not options. Perhaps there wasn't any backup pins dropped for additional options when plan A or B were occupied, I'm foggy on the details. What's essential to know is there are no lengths he will not reach to impair the progress the popularity of hunting is making simply due to the fact he dislikes those involved. You can see this in his backhanded attempts at compliments above. I hope the nuggets of "I'll be glad when hunters quit" and "you've caused a crap show of traveling to turkey hunt" in his comments show his true motives in being contentious. When we realize there is good that will emerge from this bad the entire machine will be more productive. Is there a necessity to tailor the way things are presented through content creation, possibly. I'm always open for considerations. When the curtains are drawn on this thing, if there are fewer turkeys than when I arrived it's entire existence will be a failure in my eyes. I'm not prepared to watch that happen.

With all that being said, I again offer you, Nathan, an opportunity to let bygones be bygones. Help me help wild turkeys through whatever productive avenues we can open up. Reach out to your colleagues I have already spoken to within the agency and lets expand on the ideas many of us are already spearheading. Let's figure out how to ear-mark funding. Let's research ways to concentrate volunteer efforts and work around legalities so they can do more. Lets do good while there is time.

As evident across all turkey forums and other social media outlets, the band of "sidekicks" is constantly growing as more hunters become cognizant of what YouTube/social media has caused for the public land turkey hunter. Even though I don't know the majority, apparently they are my sidekicks because they share many of the same feelings.

You asked for input on this thread. I gave mine again on an open platform for everyone to see your responses.

"Our efforts to address their concerns?" - Well, here's another huge compliment for ya. You are the ONLY one to address the concerns. Others just blame everything on COVID and say we need more turkey hunters (which isn't wrong, but the issue is the amount being funneled to specific public lands) while some are even taking in money from partnerships with state agencies.

I can assure you, Dave, it wasn't a single visit to Wisconsin that opened my eyes to the situation we are currently in.

Question my integrity and character all you'd like. Those who personally know and work with me know there is nothing more I care about than preserving the wild turkey and opportunities for chasing them wherever our hearts desire. Right now the wild turkey isn't doing the best, public land/traveling pressure is reaching unprecedented highs, and opportunities are being reduced. And I'll go to my grave knowing social media and YouTube played a part on the public land side of things. I'm not casting all the blame on you and never once have. What bothers me is the blind eye you were turning to the damage.

Bygones can be bygones. But I'm not going to quit spreading awareness and hard factual data. Here's to wishing the best for the wild turkey and all future attempts at conservation and preservation of hunting opportunities!

Dave... I guess I'm not as deep of a thinker as I should be about all this but I just really enjoy your videos and anxiously await the next one to come out. My wife is not the least bit interested in hunting and she watches everyone with me.

My all-time favorite is the one in Florida where you can hear the gobbler footsteps splashing in the water as he is coming in. Second would be the one where Chubbs missed. A whole lot of bleeps on that one. I'm a better hunter having watched your videos. I totally revamped how I pack for plane trips after watching your how to video. I've also picked up a new piece of property and intend to re-watch your "how to scout a new area" video. Don't believe 95% of the comments on this forum. Keep em coming.

I guess I have the unpopular opinion in that I think we need less hunter recruitment, or less of how it is being done today Too many people being brought in that are consumers and not managers. They take and offer nothing in return. They didn’t have to work for the experience, so they don’t appreciate it. They don’t think about how their actions, or lack of, will affect tomorrow’s resource and hunting.

Seems the turkey population and sport was getting a long just fine, maybe even better, before social media and everyone thinking they needed to recruit new hunters to save the sport. Before all this mess, to be turkey hunter you really had to want to be one. Lips were tight, information scarce, and you had to learn mostly through the school of hard knocks and field experience. As a novice hunter, a lot of times you may go a couple years before killing one. But when you did there was no better feeling in the world. You coveted it and would protect it at all cost. Because you had paid your dues, put in the countless hours and work it took to get semi good at it. Last thing you did was post a picture on social media or parade around town with him. You had worked so hard for him the last thing you were going to do was give someone else a freebie on information. When asked, standard answer was always “Ain’t heard or seen nothin”. You managed your turkeys and did everything you could to preserve them so you would always have them. I know a lot of hunters on this site think the same way and are good for the wild turkey and also our sport.

If we are going to recruit hunters these are the ones we want, although these types never needed recruiting to begin with. We don’t need the guy who watched a couple videos, bought his decoys and slays turkeys over chufa patches. Those types are consumers and offer nothing in return. Over 30 years I’ve hunted with a few like that and after a good hunt I’d ask what they thought and I usually got “Eh, it was ok”. These were also hunters who never worked for a turkey. They always went as a guest and had the real hunter do all the work. We don’t want or need these types.

I hope we don’t sell out the wild turkey just for increased license sales, etc. under the guise of saving it. But it seems to be going that way.

I can get behind this- turkeys are not going extinct- and why I believe the "sky is falling" rhetoric should be curbed. We can likely also assume that if we quit acknowledging them altogether they would also not go extinct. What are the chances of the hunters deciding 2022 is the year they're going to completely stop turkey hunting? Unlikely. Even with the amount of turkey hunting that was occurring pre-Pinhoti/THP/ OnX/ Covid/ etc. the demand would soon catch up to the supply given the downward trend in poult production and our continued degradation of habitat. Back to the question on how what I am doing good for the resource. And I'll try to keep this brief. 1.) Increasing awareness of the issues turkeys are facing (poult recruitment, habitat degradation, etc). People aren't going to help unless they realize there is a problem. The problem has gone ignored for many years. 2.) Helping share new scientific findings relevant to our concerns (aflatoxin toxicity, prescribed fire information, hen nesting findings, poult survival findings, etc) to have a more informed population of hunters. I am a firm believer in a "melting pot" approach to answers. With each concern, the more possible causes or solutions we have given from different backgrounds (the farmer, the scientist, the neurologist, the biologist) the more likely we are to have the correct answer presented 3.) Motivating hunters to become more involved in conservation efforts whether that be donating time and/or money to organizations like TFT, NWTF, Sportsmans Alliance, etc. These organizations have a direct line into making some of the necessary research happen as well as funding for the habitat improvements we need. 4.) Attempting (regardless of anyone's opinion on how successfully) to create a league of hunters more engrossed in the journey rather than the reward. I don't think a barbaric image is healthy for hunting (decapitated or bludgeoned heads or the gentlemen who thought it to be funny to video a wounded jake wobble in circles until he died as examples). 5) Create a unified voice for turkey hunters, this will help with influence. For example, an agency or organization fails to appropriately address a situation- I can call and complain, you can call and complain. It's unlikely we will provoke a response. If the situation is presented to a large concerned, motivated group of hunters who agree the situation was mishandled then together the entire group is much more likely to provoke action. 6) A more concentrated push was the #savethepoults initiative we hopped on board with last January that had many more people setting dog-proof coon cuffs traps on both public and private lands. This addressed the over abundance of nest predators directly before nesting season. These efforts will continue. I like to think, possibly erroneously, that the beautiful hatch many areas of the country have seen this summer is in small part due to hunters efforts in reducing predator numbers.

These are just a few of the ways I and those with a similar platform have helped/ can help the resource- whether you view that as turkeys specifically or hunting as a whole.

Other things that may not be nearly as noticeable and more directly tied to me.
6) Substantial donations through time and money to TFT. I do this without desire for recognition or "clout." A wonderful coffee company (Backwoods Grind) approached me last season about a signature roast. It was developed and 100% of my earnings from the roast (and a significant portion of theirs) is routed directly to TFT. So that comes out to $6.50 per $15 bag of coffee goes directly to an organization I'm confident is determined to finding answers to some of our turkey problems. It's raised a surprisingly large amount of money for wild turkey research (that will be announced soon). It's important to know that despite what some may think, YouTube is not profitable, especially in the hunting arena. Guys are feeding off crumbles in order to pursue dreams and help in an environment they feel needs it. It's the ole adage, who has the purest intention for the poor beggar, "the man to gave him $20 when that's all he had or the man who have him $50 when his pockets were overflowing with millions?"

7) I've donated many hours of my own time to the local wmas. To the point last season I was given the opportunity to come on as a seasonal employee so that I could legally operate equipment and help further. It's a small but I feel worthy cause. I guess I mentioned this to illustrate I'm "walking the walk" rather that merely "talking the talk."

8) I've invested a significant amount of time learning terminology and educating myself on funding within organizations and state agencies to spearhead proposals I hope to be considered. These would help designate funding specifically for wild turkey habitat improvements and research. I had no idea what I was wading off into when I ventured down this path but it was necessary regardless of how tedious. I hope these will come to light soon but would like to give the agencies more time to mull over the ideas in case tweaks must be made for approval. Or perhaps they be denied altogether at which point I could take the reasoning and develop another route to get there to the same goal- to have designated funding targeting turkeys so wildlife professionals will need to discuss annually the well being of the resource and what areas would most need improvements.


So I failed at keeping that brief. But I'll stop there and tell you I'm confident this "YouTube era" can be molded and used for the greater good.

I respect your opinion. I have thick skin therefore it's hard to make me mad. My question to those of you hunting 50+ years, have you recruited new hunters to replace yourselves when you reach the age that hunting is no longer an option? I'd venture to say we probably need 3/4 hunters to replace each of those phasing out due to increased cost and the increased volitivity within the political arena of nowaday agencies. I know newbies can be frustrating but do you realize we all were newbies once upon a time? Hunters should be viewed as either takers or givers. If a hunter is giving more that his take then more hunters most certainly equal more turkeys. This is the type of hunter I want to be and the type I want to recruit. If the hunter simply takes and neglects efforts to also provide for the resource then you're most likely correct. More hunters will not result in more turkeys and this would be unfortunate. If we as hunters, encourage those among us to be to "gamekeepers," rather than just takers our resources will profit, I'm sure of it.

I'm not familiar with a hunt with those details. But I'll agree, that sucks.

Hahaha! I like your logic!

You should look into the Cecil the Lion story. I understand it may a little difficult to understand but conservation doesn't exist without hunters.

Then you should look into the amount of conservation and awareness these same channels promote. The hunting is 3 months of the year for me. The conservation is 9.

Hmm, I'd like to see that season move to opening day at least. Those opportunities should never be hindered.

As for the other advancements you mentioned, we can agree on them all.

I can definitely agree with much of what you're saying. I also think it's ridiculous some of these states do not have some type of small fee for applying for a permit? I wouldn't take issue with paying $10 or $15 to apply for an opportunity.

Another thought- your underpaid biologist and enforcement got me to thinking- man power is typically the response when faced with the daunting task of trapping. What are the possibilities of agencies contracting trappers for an intensive effect immediately prior to nesting season? Grants from NWTF super fund or the like could step into foot the bill? They already contract some of the large scale burning that's labor intensive. Seems feasible to me.

If you knew my history with these stupid birds, you'd understand......short version: I started turkey hunting 9 yrs ago, almost exclusively on public land. I didn't kill the first one until the next to last day of my 6th season and have only killed 3, total. I'm pretty sure I'm mentally ill...

I'm all for it, but it don't need to be dedicated to certain contractors. A random bounty would do or could be in addition to. What most people focus on is money but they also get lost in it. Everyone focuses on cost but they lack understanding that the money is the EASY part. It sounds goofy but it is just truth, spending a little more money to help a resource is infinitely easier than getting out there and trying to make a difference in small groups. This is what deerhunt88 is implying on how hard itll be to scale trapping and such on the huge swaths of public land. However i think we could allow some sort of not related to game animals bait to be used. Marshmallows maybe? Gonna be hard for someone to bait turkeys with those.

I live where the nutria were and still are a problem. However the $5 per tail turned in ($6) now bounty, Brought out people in droves to kill these things and I can tell you they Killed and still kill ALOT. With the right boat one could make a decent living just killing nutrias from that bounty, and they do.

These agencies have got to take in more earmarked money, but in doing so they also have to show results and action. A lot of the money gripes always stem back to people seeing it as a waste. Missouri and their funding shows infinitely. Now most states wont ever get funded like that but its an example of where you can see results, Both through the MANY small properties and conservation areas on top of how well they are managed. To those who think more expensive permits and such are Ludacris go purchase yourself enough land to hunt, manage it, care for it, pay taxes on it etc and get back with me on how expensive it is to hunt states public land. ( (Every child support paying father in the world complains about what they pay but if you'd ask the average single mom raising the kids mostly solo, I bet their opinion is alot diff lol)

We can agree. We need hunters who are willing to do more than take. You can see my response to OlTimer above before I reached your post and see our ideas align. We need hunters interested in more than merely murdering the resource and rather seeing it thrive.

Dave has convinced me that the good outweighs the bad. Heck, he’s in here taking grenades for the entire YouTube hunting community. THP and Catman should send him a check 😂

I have been frustrated like a lot of y’all at the increase in pressure I’ve seen on my local WMA’s the last two seasons. But truthfully that likely has little to do with YouTube and mostly to do with the virus. Thousands of people working from home and college students taking classes from home that flooded the woods with hunters.

Dave has admitted that he could potentially change the way he does some things. He’s listened to the criticism and provided thoughtful answers. There might be some YouTube villains but I don’t think Pinhoti Project is it. Y’all just remember...... he’s listening and he’s the only one here.

I hope Dave knows none of the folks here are posting out of hate, just getting thoughts off their chest that they have been pondering a long time and hopefully having healthy discussions. I have nothing but respect for Dave. Although he won’t remember it, but my son and I went to Nashville for the convention in 2020. My son and I both watch his videos and wanted to meet him. Dave was bombarded all day with folks walking up yet he took the time to talk to us and was nothing but nice and professional. Courtney was even nice enough to sell us a couple t-shirts.

Thanks for coming in here and discussing the issues with us. Maybe we will see you at another convention.

As far as the volunteer role, I’d volunteer to help with control burns if the site was a reasonable distance from home. Don’t think they’re about to let a volunteer tote a drip torch, but I’d be glad to bring an atv or SxS and a sprayer, backpack blower, rakes etc. Could at least monitor lines.

I meet him that same year and he seemed like a good ole boy that loves turkeys and I love watching his videos and will continue as long as he keeps posting them! I wish I could agree with you about folks not posting outta hate but the crap some of em on here post ain’t nothing but hate and jealousy, that’s how I take it anyway

This for dam sure.

I haven’t actually stated an opinion. But I agree with some and disagree with some too. I’ll leave it at that.

I help manage 375k acres of private land in central and south AL. Turkey sign right now is pretty dang strong actually. Even with the past two seasons. They don’t really need as much help as we think sometimes. I do know this and will never back down - private land hunters in the southern half of the state are getting worked over with a March 25th opener. No evidence to support it and won’t change nothing.

This thread hurts my head. Makes CNC look like an amateur

^^^^
🤣🤣🤣

7) I've donated many hours of my own time to the local wmas. To the point last season I was given the opportunity to come on as a seasonal employee so that I could legally operate equipment and help further. It's a small but I feel worthy cause. I guess I mentioned this to illustrate I'm "walking the walk" rather that merely "talking the talk."

[/quote]

Could you elaborate on this more... what is a seasonal employees an what equipment could you operate?

Could you elaborate on this more... what is a seasonal employees an what equipment could you operate?[/quote]


Volunteers aren't allowed to operate equipment (trucks/ tractors/ backhoes/ boats/ etc) freely and without supervision due to liability issues I can only assume. But, a seasonal position was available (due to losing a full-time employee just before the busy season). I came on as a seasonal employee, essentially just signed the paperwork to cover insurance stuff. I'm assuming a lot because I really don't know- I just know that enabled me to help more with running tractors and not having to use my own boat to help with river work.

This is what I'm thinking would be very beneficial. Man power during those few perfect burn days at the perfect time of year is always the short coming. I'd also like to find a couple of the most available volunteers (someone with a very flexible schedule) and see about having them burn certified. I'm curious if that type of training would allow for them to have more flexibility with helping the state. I'm looking into all of this.

This should pretty well sum it up for anyone who does not want to wade through 12 pages…

https://youtu.be/LQCU36pkH7c

Wow…All i know is some of yall had better got that extended warranty on your keyboard…
Fingers: more steam..full speed ahead….
Space bar: im giviner all shes got sir

All spokin in a mildly salty irish tone

Cove,

Could you get your message across on turkey hunting methods without naming states? This may be a step to take that would be a happy medium.

It is PUBLIC property after all. Bunch of damn whiners, I'm so glad I don't give a dern about turkey...and that I have my own private property. So funny that public land hunters think they should be the only ones allowed to keep hunting that public land, nobody new should be able to come in there. Go get some damn private/leased property and you won't have to deal with it....fellow.

Just what we needed, a fresh perspective from a guy who doesn’t care about turkeys and doesn’t hunt public land 😀

Don't care about turkeys and come in on a 12 page thread....dumb ass. BTW, I lease or own property. When I was younger I did hunt public property.

So now I’m not allowed to have an opinion! I finally watched enough whining to make me want to chime in, I bit my tongue for a long time. You turkey hunters seem fun and totally reasonable.

Public land hunters are getting pissed on and told it’s raining………and that is a fact.

To be fair, no turkey hunter has ever claimed to be reasonable or rational about their chosen addiction hobby.

Man there’s some wishy washy folks on this forum. It’s ok to be persuaded with different view points but some people on here sway way too easy.

Hes here, seems like you aren't. Seems like your set may have drawn up inside yourself.

Bud- I’m still here. I’ve been working my ass off with job deadlines. I work a real job/ run a company and don’t phuck everyone on YouTube for pennies.
I promise I’m not gone.

All I know is that if SHTF and some of the people in this thread fight as hard against evil as they do with fervor and intensity against losing turkey hunting days and bag limit reductions, America shall not fall. Seriously, one of the best things I ever did was quit caring. I saw turkey numbers in just about every place I hunt, in every state I hunt start getting close to a turd touching cotton over 10 years ago. It’s so bad in many places that I don’t think there is anything on a human scale that can be done to completely reverse it. Change the season, lower the limit, control burn, trap, yada yada yada. We’ve got places that don’t get any hunting pressure, and don’t have many coons, that don’t have birds anymore. I just go when I can and I’m glad to hear a bird or see a hen or two.

Some are for sure. I’ve had the PCP and Gobbler approach for years - I’m just not as likable as they are . Leave us alone - everything will be ok - landowners and hunters can grow and save turkey far better than the government and restrictions. And stop screwing with March turkey hunting in AL, especially the south.

^^^^^
I with u - Push back gone be super tuff here 247

Just go shoot the damn things when they start gobbling. You SW AL guys just need to go about it quietly

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I am guessing there will be a lot more of that going on than it ever has been 257

Matt speaks the truth once again

But then it couldn’t be posted my frin....

Now you know what 257 means with his tag line that says he is QUIETLY KILLING TURKEYS WHEN YOUR NOT!

Hes killing them in February and early March!