TSS questions

Do they carry enough weight down range when shooting smaller shot sizes?

The believers claim 9.5's kill them out to 70 yards...

I myself have never shot them. Just wait and you will get educated real quick.

Yes, they do. I've got a 410 I feel more confident in at 50 yards with TSS # 10s than I do a 12 gauge with lead #4s

I’ve heard 9s but I haven’t shot them either. That’s awesome yardage for a shot shell

Depends on what you would say down range is.

50-60 yards sure.

I try not to ever shoot farther than this. But it happens

I've only shot a couple with #9s. So far, I haven't been impressed.

50 to 55 yards

I’ve pulled some crazy stuff with tss the last 3 years or so. When you run out of breath and have to stop and rest on the way to one after the shot then you know it will work down range

My longest so far is 64 big steps with 8’s. Bang flop.

Yes they do.

Absolutely. Got three kills over 60 yards with 9s.

Are you guys hand loading these? Can you buy them in stores yet?

yes and yes. apex ammo in Mississippi sells loaded shells

9 TSS = 4 lead as far as kinetic energy or so the aerospace engineer says, lol. And it's very hard, armor piercing shotgun shot. Think about that. A 20 ga is just bout over kill.

I've seen 9s shoot through the body at 50 plus yards , but they were ultra high BrentM velocity.

I shot a Coyote at 35 long steps with 9s and most went through his neck and chest, exiting on the other side.

This is a difficult question to answer. Most answers will be anecdotal. I’m not going to disagree with the guys that use the stuff because their results speak for themselves.

Let’s look at it strictly from a mathematical perspective in an effort to compare apples to apples. The weight of a pellet is determined by the volume multiplied by the density. Lead is 11.34 grams per cubic centimeter while TSS can be as high as 18.5 grams per cubic centimeter. If you find a chart that shows shot size diameter, you can quickly calculate the weight of each. What you will find is that a TSS pellet weighs approximately the same as a lead pellet that is 2 sizes bigger. For example a #6 TSS weighs about the same as a #4 lead pellet.

Assuming we are comparing apples to apples, if a lead #4 and a TSS #6 are shot at the same velocity, they will carry the same amount of energy, PER PELLET. The difference really comes in to play because the smaller TSS pellets allow for more pellets on the target.

When you start to look at the really small TSS sizes like #9 and #10, the discussion then becomes one of more pellets making up for reduced energy. These loads are capable of putting hundreds of pellets in a bird.

I don't have a scientific answer for you, but I can tell you that at 45 yds, a #9 TSS will carry a feather with it all the way through the breast till it hits the breastbone.

With all due respect, from an aerospace engineer, your reasoning is flawed. You are only considering muzzle velocity which really doesn't mean a whole lot since we don't shoot turkeys at 1 or 2 yards very often. The smaller shots sizes are significantly superior from an aerodynamic standpoint because they don't have all of that surface area drag to slow them down at such an exponential rate when compared to say a #4 lead. The second advantage to the smaller shot size is based upon the same premise. The smaller surface area significantly reduces drag (think FMJ bullet for comparison) when the shot enters the animal's skin which leads to less velocity bleed off on its way to bone (important because we are trying to break in his neck). The final advantage is how hard/strong the TSS shot is compared to lead. Lead deforms significantly upon impact (with each other going down the barrel as well as hitting something downrange) which hampers its ability to maintain its entry velocity and subsequently reduces the velocity/energy upon contact with bone (think FMJ ammo again). Perhaps Hal or someone will show some pictures of shot penetrating ballistic gel to help drive those points home. I'm a little short on time or I would look some up.

When people talk about #4 lead being equivalent to #9 TSS, they are talking downrange (i.e. where it matters) and not at the muzzle. You are correct though that the 4th advantage is so many more pellets on target, significantly increasing the chance of breaking the neck at various yardages.

If you've ever met Jughead you'll agree he is definitely smarter than he looks.

Which really ain't saying much because I'm awful dumb looking.

Again, I was trying to speak in terms of measurables, not anecdotal evidence. When folks suggest that #9 works as good lead #4 but have no measurable data to back that up, it’s anecdotal. That doesn’t mean it’s wrong. There’s a big difference in being wrong and having no proof.

I’m well aware that my comparison used muzzle velocity which would change down range. I’m not familiar with any shot shell manufacturer that lists velocities down range, probably because you’d shoot your chronograph to hell trying to measure it.. Secondly, I don’t disagree that smaller shot may have more ballistic advantage, but I’m not aware of that being measured in shot shells either. You make valid points in every statement you made. I’m simply saying that if you tell me that #9 TSS hits as hard as #4 lead and I suggest the #7 TSS is actually closer to #4 lead, neither of us will ever be proven right or wrong. How do you compare 100 hits from one pellet versus 20 hits from a pellet of a different size? I don’t think you can have such a discussion without acknowledging that some of the “evidence” will be mostly anecdotal.

Ballistic gel testing....pretty sure it's already been done.

Ballistic gel linky

Definitely.

I'm in agreement as well

Anecdotal. Everybody knows shooting ballistic gel to measure penetration is hogwash the ammo manufacturers have been feeding us for decades.

Damn you guys can make it hard on yourselves sometimes.

Some of you guys are better at scouring the internet than you are reading comprehension. The link was a forum about a guy with a ballistics software program. He was entering the penetration depth he wanted and the program spit out the effective distance.

Let’s say the program is dead nuts accurate. The closest comparison that can be made was #9 TSS and #5 lead where he had them both set to 1.5” of penetration. At the target distance (TSS was 13 yds further) the TSS is slower, and has less than half the energy that the lead #5 has. Until someone posts side by side ballistics gel results, it’s still anecdotal. Good try though.

Look on down the page at 7 1/2 lead V 7 1/2 TSS head to head. TSS penetrates 6 times deeper than lead at the same speed and distance.

Thanks guys!

I see now why the strictly 3.5 12s are happily sending 20s down range

No. The stuff is no good at all. Everyone should stick to lead and limit shots to 35 yards.



YS, I think the best evidence for the penetrating ability of the tss 9s was the early research Hal did about a decade ago. He has numerous pics of holes in sheet metal from the 9s when #4 lead only dented it. I think the density is far more important than weight. #8 tss is equal to a size 6.4 lead pellet, but it penetrates miles better #6 lead.

The stuff is ideal for shooting turkeys more than any other game animal, imo. When shooting a turkey, a smart hunter wants to punch holes in his central nervous system, that is his head or neck. Punch a hole through his CNS and the turkey dies. Punch a bunch of holes in it and he doesn't even seem to flop much. Most people try to kill a deer with a bullet through the vitals, and TSS might not be the best choice for that.

TSS has been in use about a decade now and has killed thousands of turkeys. I think it is way past the anecdotal evidence level. I don't think there can be any doubt that it's the best shot available. What I think is still being discovered is the best shot size. I used mostly 8s for 7 years, but after 2 seasons of mostly 9s I believe the 9s are better for most situations. And it may be that even smaller sizes provide the ideal combination of pattern density and sufficient penetration.

In most situations, 50 yards is the limit I will shoot one and I can tell you for sure that 9s will whack one easily at that range.

9 and 9 1/2 will do just fine.

ALredbone, this is not a decision to be taken lightly, or to be made by the ill informed. If you have some good turkey land, I will be happy to meet you there in the spring, and conduct a product demonstration

No need to drive 400 miles and leave a big ol' carbon foot print. Gurley is just down the road for me. Not to mention there's those NA mountains, flat lander could bust a lung. I'll be happy to demonstrate for my neighbor to the west. I'm just looking out for the environment and yer health.

Dang decent of you dog, but that trip would be short compared to some of the stuff I do to kill em.