Lower limits

I know over here to your west our population is down. I would be all for a two bird limit if they could enforce it. With you guys having a 5 bird limit, do u think that's to many or is the flock in outstanding shape? Would you oppose lower limits in Bama?

Around where I'm at the population seems to hold it's own. There are better years than others but I contribute that to the previous hatches. As far as reducing the bag limit I really don't think it would have much effect, especially with our tagging system. Plus I think the majority of the hunters fall short of the five anyway. And the ones who do kill 5+ will continue to do so. If they did reduce the limit they would need to go to four first, if they went to two or three there would be a lot of resistance.

I would oppose lower limits. You want to positively impact the population? get on a statewide predator control program. Most experts agree, that it is about impossible to hurt a population by shooting mature gobblers.

This makes a lot of sense to me.

I bet habitat is more of an issue than varmints. If big timber companies and large landowners would spray/burn on a 2 or 3 year rotation, the population would be fine. Not that predator control wouldn't help, and probably tremendously, but pine stands filled w nothing but pine straw and gum trees isn't the best turkey habitat.
I say fix that, not the limit of gobblers which has been known not to affect the population.

Please, let's don't start this thread again.

If there really are places in AL where there aren't enough gobblers to breed the hens, then the only practical way to protect the flock is to shorten the season in those areas.

Reducing the statewide limit is all about somebody's idea of "fairness " and nothing else. It won't help the turkeys a bit.

No comment

Yes, reduce Mississippi's limit to 2!

wouldn't bother me, I've held myself and wife to a three bird limit for over 15 years now....

I could understand that if that's what your property calls for, but certainly don't agree if you have multiple places to hunt where the population could handle the killin.

I carry a lot of folks, get to see multiple birds killed over my calling, three is enough for me to pull the trigger on, counting multiple properties. The last year I killed five I called up 32 birds that got killed, shooter sitting touching close to me, multiple properties, three states.

I would like to see Alabama go to a 10 bird limit.

LOL! You tell 'em ChiliBowl. I like PCP's proposed bag limit of 1 gobbler per day myself

that was just his evil avatar talking......

I can tell ya right now.... If things stay the course at my camp..... We gonna have to self impose our own limits.... Or get rid of a few.....

I would like to see this happen, and tags! We have lost 40% of our flock. Ks and Mo have two bird limits and there flock seems to be in pretty good shape. I know a few greedy hunters here that shoot over the limit every year and just don't get it.

Tru-talker ole buddy ole pal. How you been??

You should be able to kill your limit in one day, instead of one bird per day.

Both KS and MO claim to have fewer turkeys, though I think it's limited to the SE part in KS. And that's happened with a 2 gobbler limit in the spring.

One gobbler can breed 20 hens in a day, and that's all they need to be fertile. Then his job is finished in the reproduction process - kill him and eat him.

These ain't quail where the male helps in nesting; the gobbler does his business and then goes off to hang out with the guys while the hens do all the work in raising the young. The males of no species should be able to have that much fun, so that's the reason God made a Spring gobbler season with generous limits in AL.

If you want more turkeys, give the hens full protection and do all you can to improve their nesting success. Provide them with nesting cover and a safe place to live thru the winter. That will give you more turkeys. Cutting the spring limit on males will only make some people feel better. It's a lot like gun control laws - they do zilch in fighting crime, but some people feel happier when they pass them.

If you want more turkeys, do your part in improving habitat. Don't just talk about it, do something! I'm off to burn the woods this afternoon. There's a Red Flag Warning; that means it's a good day to burn.

Lets take kansas for example. I'd be willing to bet they actually have less turkeys than mississippi, I know they have less birds than alabama. They are just more visible.

Now they only have 2 gobblers in the spring season? Why do you think that is? I'd be willing to bet its because you can kill 3 in the fall..... Almost all the states with low limits during the spring, allow you to shoot more during the fall. Almost all of them will let you shoot hens in the fall as well.

I agree that there should be less turkey hunters...

I have killed plenty of turkeys in my 34 yrs of hunting them, killing five of them doesnt do me any good. I am tickled too death to kill one a yr, which i have managed to do so going back 8 yrs or so. I will kill one on our place and then 1 on the place i hunt in Louisiana. After i kill one in AL, i just bring a buddy to try and get them one. Usually, once that 2nd turkey dies in AL, i quit bringing a gun. That self imposed 2 bird limit off our land has really helped the turkey population in the last 10 yrs. We have several different groups on the 675 acres i hunt now, i am confident i could kill 3 a yr on that place and 5 if i hunted it hard. This is just my opnion, but i think 3 would be a good number. The guys that kill 5 every yr pretty much do it for bragging rights anyway. That is just my opnion, 5 turkeys is ALOT for one person, especially off one tract of land.

I used to be that guy that killed 5 a yr. Now, to me, it is more about the game than the kill. Beating an old gobbler at the game (getting him in gun range) is a huge thrill for me. Of course i pull the trigger and that first one every yr, but that usally is enough to feed my family and "scratch my itch to KILL"

I still LOVE playing the game with them and shooting them with my finger after that

Let's see. We've had a 5-bird limit for years and, despite some rogues that you'll have anywhere, most hunters -- I'd say, yes, most -- are honest and will choose to limit themselves as B'ham Fred does or would stop at five if they hit that number.

Yet again there's a thought to reduce the limit when voluntary restraint and personal choice would be better than imposing a lower number that many hunters would then think is easier to attain, thus making them more of a hunter in the eyes of peers.

I would venture to guess very few turkey hunters in this state get to their 5 bird limit. I'm sure that a few do out of the turkey hunting population, but I'm also sure that a lot of the ones who do are on aldeer. I've tried really hard and 3 is the most I've got in one year. And that's with A LOT of traveling.

Alabama has had the #1 eastern population and the #2 overall population in the country for the past 10 year. So what I feel confident that the State has done a overall great job. Here in Wilcox county we have as many or more hunters than any where else and our population has not fluctuated in the 20 years I've been turkey hunting. I would be all for a hard tag system to try and help enforce the existing law. But I agree with dealing with the population on a county wide basis. Wilcox,Dallas, Marengo, and Monroe counties where I hunt are in great shape. I watch 7-10 birds die a year and have never ran out or not had birds the next year. I know nothing about North Alabama but we are in great shape down here. 2 bird idea is insane. Mississippi went from 3 to 2 because if the floods the last 2 springs in the delta. Also Mississippi has about half the birds Alabama does

I think the limit should be removed all together....


This ^^^^^

An excellent point! Praise the Lord that Charles Kelley had sense enough to know that God intended for turkeys to be hunted in the spring, and that He created them in such a way that killing a spring gobbler has no impact on the overall population. Kill a gobbler and you kill one turkey. Kill a hen and you might be killing dozens of turkeys.

I can't help but wonder if some folks think gobblers sit on the nests and then help raise the poults? How else could folks reach some of the conclusions they do?

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Sustainable, healthy populations of turkey and quality turkey hunting in the heart of the pine belt? Surely not? Can't be?

Now this some logical thinking. I wonder why we don't apply it to deer hunting?

Y'all got Yekrut.. What more you need??

Tru-Talker should be able to legally kill 10.. I gave him my 5 since I don't hunt them..

If the limit were 2,3, or 15, it wouldn't make a difference. I know some dang good hunters that don't even limit at 5 anymore. With the explosion of predators, I think very few people take the 5 limit every year like they did in years past. The guy that doesn't have a full time job, or has time to hunt every day of the season is going to take as many as he wants regardless of the limit set by the state. I'd guess 80 to 90 percent of Alabama is paper company or lumber land, so I don't know how anybody could know how many birds we have. It's not like the West, where you can go to an alfalfa field and actually count the birds all day.

Because overpopulation of turkeys don't usually destroy the ecosystem, like deer overpopulation.

Fact: less than 30 percent of acreage in AL is owned by forest industry landowners (timber company land).

Morningair - 80-90%, cmon bro?

Of course, last time this came up, you said "timber companies....are the biggest turkey killers".

Stop guessing.

They might decimate the grub population.

when I lived in Hale Co in the early 80's there were HUGE vast areas of mature hardwoods from Moundville to west of Greensboro along the Warrior River . By 1987 or so the timber companies and private landowners had clearcut well over 10,000 acres, prolly near 15,000 acres of that forest. All in a short period of time. The turkey population in that area declined greatly. I was there, working in the woods daily and saw the decline first hand.

22.9 million forested acres in AL.
15,000/22,900,000 = 0.00065502%
They just moved somewhere else temporarily - a cycle.
That was also before the days of sustainable forestry and harvest size and location restrictions, mostly practiced today by timber companies, not private landowners.

Try again.

Yea c'mon!!

It is pretty much impossible to argue that timberland is better than the more natural patchwork that we had before. Obviously it isn't the nail in the coffin, but it is not ideal either. To argue that it has done anything but hurt the population is foolish.

Great dialogue on this thread... The one thing no one really has a definite handle and count is number of new hunters in the woods each Spring. That shear volume and w technology of our toys we use (shotguns, Nitro's, TSS, calls, decoys, camo and the like) we may be just at point of diminishing returns in some areas of the state... Add predators and possible avian pox die outs... It just adds up... Managing county or areas of counties to specific sustainable and healthy numbers.

The good ole days were so rich when the competition between hunters in the woods was not as great... But if we want to fight the Anti's ... We need the extra hunters and non- hunters who vote and are not opposed to hunting....Delicate Balance For Sure.

Atoler - Call me a fool then. No problem. The words you write are easy to lay down, but are not facts.

What is the natural patchwork we had before? Before what timeline? You do realize before the era of industrial timberland ownership, it was hard to find a decent population anywhere in the state (30s to 60s). Like I have stated before, industrial timberland ownership is less than 30% of those 22.9 million acres. And they were harvesting and managing timber during the highest populations just as they are today. That variable hasn't changed over the decline we may be experiencing today.

So call me a fool, but you will need a variable that has changed to lay blame.

I don't really understand what hunter numbers have to do with the fact that every biologists opinion, I have ever heard, states that it is basically impossible to hurt a turkey population by taking spring gobblers.

To add to that, we are actually experiencing a decline in hunter numbers based on license sales. I believe the internet just makes it seem like there are more hunters.

As I said, timber production is not the nail in the coffin that many want to believe. But.... I would like to see you present information that supports that it helps, as you seem to think.... I used to hunt a place when I was younger, that was all mature hardwoods, sage fields, and swamp. It was common to hear 10 birds in a morning. They came in, cut most of the woods, planted pines, and there were basically no turkeys. After 10 years and a thinning, I was able to hunt it again. We heard 1 bird that morning. The buddy that has the lease now, sometimes hears 2 or 3 on a good morning. I'm sure the population will get better as the trees get larger, then it will be cut again and the turkey habitat will be gone for another 10-15 years. Even at a pine plantations peak maturity, I have never seen solid timber land that rivals really good natural timber stands.

Maybe a better way to state my opinion is to ask a question. Without stepping foot on a property. Would you pay more money for a turkey only lease, that was 90% pines? or one that was 90% hardwoods and mixed timber?

Cmon man! You cant be throwing loaded questions out like that. Great point, btw.

Some of the best places I've ever turkey hunted was 100% pines.

What exactly are timber companies doing to help the population? Clear cut, spray everything so it won't grow, replant pines in rows. After about 15 years they will help the wildlife when they thin but that is just a by product of making money on their trees. Im not mad at em for it but don't tell me they are in the business of wildlife management.

After it was thinned I assume

Really? I've hunted some pretty good places that were timberland too. It didn't stay that way for long though.

All stages, actually.

It is a trap question. It is also based on a micro manage, individual tract level. And that's not the discussion. But I'll play along.

I will have to make 2 assumptions. 1 - mixed timber is mature and what we visualize as a pretty place to call up a turkey. 2 - pines and managed at a variable age stand level.

If the tract is 80 acres, I'll take the mixed timber.

If it is 1000 acres, I'll take the managed pines.

See here is my problem with that line of thinking, assume that mixed timber and mature pines are equal in benefit to turkey habitat. Given a typical setup on 1000 acres of variable age pines. You would have 300 of mature pines, 300 of thicker young pines, and 300 of clearcut. And 100 of misc scrag and oak bottoms. The 300 in clear cut is only usable for nesting, although is way more nesting habitat than is necessary. The young thick pines are really of no benefit, unless thinned. So in essence, on your average timber tract, I see very little way to ever have more than about 75% of your land as turkey habitat at a time. If you compare that to your average mixed timer/ hardwoods, where the vast majority is usable. You could even argue that a managed pine stand is more valuable somehow, and it would be very hard to ever make up that 20-25%.

I know a place that's nearly all pines.....and it's as fine a spot as I've ever been on.....

Here's a pine stand that I predict will have a turkey or 2 on it this season:



I couldn't make it to the farm until late Friday afternoon. Got it going about 4:30, but the humidity was low enough that it finished burning shortly after dark.



In my experience, things like this are the way to increase the turkey population. Lowering the limit won't help a bit. If you wanta improve the turkey population, get out and burn the woods!

How many folks think that if you killed every mature gobbler on your place every year and expect no adverse effects?

Depends on how big your place is. If its 10,000 acres, you'd might run into the problem of not having enough gobblers to breed the hens if that particular year if you had a poor hatch. Then you might not have enough jakes to grow into 2 year olds and breed the hens.

If you are talking about 100 acres, it wouldn't make any difference. Gobblers range over several thousand acres, so if you have the hens, you will have the gobblers.

I think the season length should be set so that this doesn't happen. So far, it hasn't happened anywhere that I hunt. And that's with over 60 years of a generous limit and season length. If it is happening in other places, then shorten the season.

My wife is ready at last; I'm off to church! All have a good day!

We need to lower the limit of turkey HUNTERS.

I kinda liked it back when I was the only turkey hunter I knew. And that is the truth. In the early to mid 80's, I did not know a single person under the age of 50 that hunted turkeys, other than me. In fact I personally knew of only 2 other people that turkey hunted. They were timber guys that were sort of like hermits. Both are passed on now to the great hardwood bottom in the sky.

Dr. B

I'm going to disagree with ya on land size Preacher. My brother hunted a small place of less than 100 acres. He and five others killed every gobbling bird on that place, all season long. Somebody was there near every day. Most of them were mid to good turkey hunters. I think they killed near 20 gobblers. I told em several times to stop and leave a couple of birds. Of course they were drawing off the surrounding land also, esp late in the season.

Next year...NO gobbling, I think they killed one bird and heard very few. Couldn't understand why???? They won't gobble out of a freezer......

try what again????

90+% of the hardwood bottoms were clear cut in a short period of time over a huge area of one county. Where do you think the turkeys moved to???? And what was their survival rate in marginal areas???

You try again, you wern't there and didn't see it. Theory ain't the same as fact...

I think my hole point is being missed here. I'm not saying pines can't be good habitat, I'm saying that there is a good chunk of the growing period that is wasted turkey habitat. You cannot look at the lifespan of a pine plantation and tell me that it is beneficial for turkeys all the way along. Therefore taking natural timber and turning it into pines has eliminated turkey habitat to some extent.

Brian Williams said that habitat loss didnt happen in the late 80's!

Huge area? You said 10-15k acres. That's not a huge area of any county on a percentage basis. Yes, I think they moved. Yes, I believe they survived. They are adaptable and tough, and should be given more credit.

Did those small specific areas have less turkey temporarily, sure, I believe you and can't question that. I also do not believe big mature hardwood bottoms can support their needs year round. They are pretty places to kill a turkey, and we fantasize about those places, and hold them in high regard.

But the truth is that they are adaptable, and the turkey population increased when forest product demand increased (70s thru early 2000s). Did individual, small acreages, experience change - of course. But on the landscape level, they survived and adapted.

This is the third time recently a thread about population or limits caused somone to bash timber companies (harvesting, pine plantations, etc.).

I've grown weary of it. Here's my last thought.

Did turkey populations rise from the 60s to the 90s in AL?

Did harvesting and forest products demand also rise during that time?

We know the answer to both, but some just don't want it to make sense. Because their favorite pretty patch of timber to call a turkey in the spring was gone.

All Ive wanted to do in each thread was to make you think about it. To stop guessing about perceived population declines and playing the blame game to an industry that is an easy target.

So now I will retire my thoughts, throw another piece of metal in the fireplace, enjoy the comfort of my plastic house, grab a glass for my evening drink straight from my carbon fiber cabinets, and try not to pass out on my beautiful new aluminum flooring. In addition, I prayed this morning at church for the sins of the forest products industry.

I'm out.

Enjoy your drink I don't think the timber companies are the devil but a lot of people lease from timber companies and know how the process works. Clearcut, spray to kill, plant, thin, clear cut. On an individual piece of property there is only one phase of that process that is GOOD for turkey hunting...after the thinning. Maybe on a large scale this actually good for turkeys..I don't know.

Turkey247 - Can you send me the plans for that plastic house? I think Wood is Good, but I have family that works for Exxon and they are always promoting plastic. Oil companies aren't greatly loved either.

Troy, that's an amazing story on the 20 gobblers off 100 acres. I can't peck out a response on this phone; will get back to you later. Everyone carry on. Facts are gonna win out in the end.

before you go... Does the fact that common timber practices eliminate habitat during certain stages of growth hurt or help the turkeys? Lets throw a dart and say that at any given time 25-40% of timberland is unusable to turkeys. If that is the case, how is an automatic loss in habit outweighed by a tree plantation that offers no benefit at anytime except for a roosting site, or nesting site?

If you want to look on a large scale. Lets say plum creek owns 1,000,000 acres. Of that lets assume 300k is after thinned, 300k is before thin, and 300k is clearcut. 100k is hardwood drains and misc scrub. That leaves an absolute loss of 300k acres, a portional loss of another 300k, and 400k that is good habitat. Lets just assume that a clearcut offers great benefit to nesting. Which it really doesn't, because they are typically much larger than the area needed. So bare minimum a timber company has reduced the turkey habitat on their owned lands by 30%, and depending on your ideas of nesting habitat, it could be as great as 50%. Now you are telling me that an automatic loss of habitat is responsible for the increase in population? Or are you telling me that you are just using that as an argument because it coincides?

Do y'all really think all stages of hardwood regeneration is excellent turkey habitat?

no, I don't. But without mass timber harvest that is mostly a mute point except for tornado stricken areas, etc.

If I'm just throwing darts, I'd say 90% of all the property I have stepped on, that is made up of natural or mature mixed timber, is serviceable to turkeys. Whereas a much smaller percentage is usable in pine plantations. I'm not complaining, heck I'm too realistic to think that timber companies are going away anytime soon. And as I've said several times in this thread, timber companies are not the nail in the coffin that many like to believe. At the same time, I get tired of people trying to say that common timber practices somehow help turkeys. In my eyes, turkeys exist despite timber lands, not because of them.

What makes you think that they're unserviceable to turkeys? Because you can't see them in there or that you can't shoot them in there?

I will say this on the matter. Each timber company (I have had the privilege of hunting on several tracks owned by different large scale companies) has a different approach on how they manage their lands. It seems to me that certain practices seem to help all the wildlife over the practices of other companies. For example, I hunted for 3 seasons on a club owned by a company whose goal seemed to be that the ideal number of pole pines grown where 100 or so per acre. From the cut process at this stage, they never replanted because it took them about 30 years to get that 100 trees per acre, as they thinned, they used minimal Trax in and out the parcel, and relied on natural regeneration. The land as never really a clear cut because of the multi stages of trees on each parcel.
That being said, I have hunted on the lands of some of the mentioned companies on this thread and other similar companies that cut all the way to the streams, ringed the oaks out in the clear cuts so they would die, and cut every hardwood strip on their property when the chance arose. In three years or so, an armadillo would have a hard time living, much less a turkey.
But I still believe that predator control, combined with habitat loss, is the key to population management.

What makes me think that? Offer any upside that a turkey would have in planted pines from lets sage age 5 to first thin? The reason I think there is no use for them is because a bird does not eat pines or anything produced by them, and the pines shield out all the natural vegetation beneath during these stages, leaving simply pinestraw in a very very thick forest of unedible trees.

additionally, I'm not saying that with a constant burning program, and a lot of proactive work, that you cannot turn it into something that is not completely unused, but we are talking about your average timber plantation here, not the exception to the rule.

A deer doesn't eat anything produced by a pine tree, either. Those planted pines offer the same thing a planted hardwood stand offers at that age.

Do what? Who hunts replanted hardwoods in Alabama? Not very many folks. I've hunted WRP in Mississippi and young hardwoods still produce a bunch of acorns. I don't understand how anyone could look at a 10 year old pine plantation and think it is good habitat for anything.

All I'm saying is it doesn't matter what species you plant(hardwoods or pines), after a clearcut there is a period that isn't what most would consider ideal for turkeys. However, they do use these areas.

I agree, but I'm not debating hardwood planting vs. pines. I'm debating timberland vs. natural.

Y'all better thank the farmers for the corn. From row droppers to cattle farmers. Feeding shelled corn to cows is the best turkey call I got.

You're right about that DW, I never knew that turkeys scratched the corn out of cow poop until I saw it with my own eyes.

Sure will. Nasty jokers.

There's alot of insects in and under those pies, too.

Yea. But like at my dairy. This time of year the cows stays in about 5 acres. Them old red headed SOB's ha g out right steady. Pickin out that corn.

How many times does it have to go through the cow before it's not considered hunting over bait?

I don't quite follow what the argument is regarding the forestry practices. I don't believe that anyone is arguing that a pine plantation makes excellent turkey habitat in years 3-10. But starting about year 11, the canopy closes and turkeys will start using it again. Our place was clearcut and replanted in 1979. We had owned it since 1965, but my dad had to lease the timber rights to a paper company in order to afford it. We had great turkey hunting on it until it was cut, but never killed more than 6 gobblers in a season.

We killed a few around the edges until 1983, and then didn't killed a turkey on it again until 1990. My dad just happened to make a trip by late in the season that year and called up a flock of 7 gobblers and killed one. The next season, we started back hunting it and it had as many turkeys as ever. Its been decent turkey hunting ever since, but there was that period of about 7 years when turkeys just didn't use it.

Its ideal when the clearcut blocks aren't so big. Then turkeys can use the young plantation for nesting and have better habitat in the older plantations. That doesn't always happen, of course.

>>>>>I'm going to disagree with ya on land size Preacher. My brother hunted a small place of less than 100 acres. He and five others killed every gobbling bird on that place, all season long. Somebody was there near every day. Most of them were mid to good turkey hunters. I think they killed near 20 gobblers. I told em several times to stop and leave a couple of birds. Of course they were drawing off the surrounding land also, esp late in the season.

Next year...NO gobbling, I think they killed one bird and heard very few. Couldn't understand why???? They won't gobble out of a freezer......<<<<

Troy, that's an amazing story of killing 20 gobblers off 100 acres. That must have been some super habitat, and there must not have been much hunting on the land around it.

Our place is 700 acres, and its never produced more than 6 in a season. There is a 4000 acre hunting club that completely surrounds us, and we usually get 15 or so between us. If there is a good crop of 2 year olds, most of them get killed, but there's always some gobblers back the next season.

I don't doubt that hunting can cut down on the number of available gobblers on a place, but that really wasn't the point I was making. I was saying no place I've ever hunted had so few gobblers available that the hens did not get bred. Even in the very unusual example you gave, there was still some gobbling the next season, so there was almost certainly enough gobblers to breed the hens.

A place that goes 10 years without being hunted is likely gonna have more mature gobblers on it than a place that is hunted hard, but I think the Coosa Mgt Area proves that legal hunting of spring gobblers can't impact the overall population. There isn't a gobbling bird on that place that doesn't hear fake hens every day of the season, but there's always a bunch that survive to breed the hens and frustrate hunters the next year. I got this old warrior 3 years ago off it; he was at least 4 years old and I guarantee you he had heard hundreds of fake hens in his life, but he managed to survive. No matter what the limit is, there will always be a few turkeys like this one that learn how to avoid hunter and will breed the hens the next spring. This one's downfall was a cackle from a Hatchet Creek Screaming Green.



I say to stick with the system that has worked so well for at least 50 years. Good hunting to all! Won't be long now!

Preacher, I don't think we are too far off from each other. We both agree that there are some pretty much unusable years, then there are some years that are really pretty good in a pine plantation. I was simply disputing 247, who always tries to somehow correlate the revamp of the turkey population with timber companies coming on the scene. Heck, If I owned a few thousand acres, some of it would be in pines. Big select cut planted pines, that are burned on rotation, is some great turkey habitat. But overall, the simple process of cutting, planting, growing, and cutting, eliminates habitat for a decent chunk. Thats my point. there is no way it helps the overall picture because of it.

So why do any states have limits on gobblers? If it doesn't affect our population, I'm all for it!

A good question! But a better one is why would any state allow the killing of hens? Common sense tells you that's gonna affect the population to some extent. You can't have too many turkeys, and turkeys are always gonna go thru cycles. Some of the counties in TN that allow a hunter to kill 6 hens a day have way fewer turkeys than many counties in AL. And now they are finally starting to have meetings and trying to figure out why the turkey population is declining.

I believe we do need seasons and limits on gobblers. You gotta make sure there are enough gobblers to breed the hens. And I personally don't want to see the gobblers all but shot out every year. I like the one a day limit, because its enforceable, and its no greater thrill to kill 2 gobblers than it is 1. But the harvest is primarily controlled by the length of the season. If you need to lower the harvest, shorten the season.

All of what I'm saying applies only to the southeast. It might be possible to kill every last one of those stupid rios they have in the midwest.

smh

At what??
You're relentless with those short dry responses.

Good post PCP. I agree with you on every bit of that.

If the limit is 5, you should be able to kill them in one day.

horsechitt....

Why is that?

To me Brad, it's easier to enforce 1 a day than it is 5 per season. That's why I think it should stay at one a day.

see if you can figure it out all by yourself......if not you have no credibility as a turkey hunter.....

I'm not so sure that either one is easy to enforce.

as a retired GW I can tell you the one a day id fairly easy to enforce

you figger out the 5 a day thingy???

Hmm...interesting. I'm not gonna kill over the limit, either way. If the State sets the limit at 5, then the limit is 5 regardless of when you kill them.

it ain't the same as far as total kill is concerned....

My thinking on that is that its too easy to kill multiple gobblers at one time with no daily limit. I've had times when I could have killed 5 gobblers at once. I wouldn't do it if it were legal, but there are plenty that would. That probably wouldn't have kept the hens from reproducing that year, but it sure would have cut down on the gobbling and the quality of the hunting, not only for my place, but for my neighbors as well.

GA has no daily limit, but has an unenforceable 3 bird season limit. That's gotta be GW's nightmare.

They set the limit at 5 decades ago, knowing that the vast majority of hunters were not gonna kill anywhere near 5. I've asked time and again how many hunters actually kill a limit, but can't get an answer. It would be in the Hunter Survey info, but they won't release it. Somebody told me on here a while back they were gonna find out, but I forgot who it was. I'm suspecting the number is so small that they don't want it released. It would show that reducing the season limit would accomplish nothing, and I think a reduction is in the works. We'll see. I'm getting too old for it to matter to me.

Wiping out a whole flock of gobblers in one day before they get busted up (and before the breeding even begins in the northern part of the state) doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Seems to me that it would be about the only way that a guy could hurt the overall population by shooting gobblers.
Some of the old timers liked the idea of killing a bunch in one day too. They would pour out a bunch or corn in a trough, lay next to it, and ground-sluice a whole flock of em when they all got their heads lined up in the trough.
I think they ran out of turkeys pretty quick though.

if one could kill five a day then many hunters would kill multiple birds, and increase the total number of birds killed in a season, when they normally wouldn't kill that many birds in a season.

Kansas has a 2 bird season and two a day limit. I killed my Kansas limit bam..bam and was done for the hunt, but it was only a three day hunt anyway.

The season limit is completely unenforceable under current rules. A hard tag system would slow the "overkill" down a lot and has been asked for by dang near every GW enforcement officer in the state at one time er another. Powers that be in Montgomery say it won't make any difference but I know damn well I could of slowed some folks down with a tag system.

With that reasoning I assume you would be for a hard tags for deer also. I am for hard tags for both deer AND turkey. I also think it would make it more enforceable, especially when the GWs catch a hunter with someone elses tag. Now there would be an added expense for production of said tags. I wouldn't have a problem paying $.50 - $1.00 per tag but must buy your whole limit at once. I'm sure this will ruffle some feathers.

Not many people have called up 2 or 3 different birds in the same day, but a whole lot of people could line up 2 or 3 heads in the early season.

We are told time and time again on here that killing the mature gobblers won't in any way effect the over all population. So, it shouldn't matter.

I think they set it at one a day because they knew that a limit of 5 for every turkey hunter was too much. Apparently, somebody setting the seasons way back then thought that killing too many mature gobblers in a season would affect the population. With the current system, neither limit(per day or season) is easily enforcable. Alot of us know people that take over as the limit every year.

So they set the limit at 5 cause they really don't want people to kill more than about 3? I can't really get my head wrapped around that.
Whoever set the season limits "way back when" evidently felt like spring gobblers were expendable to the point that he gave Alabama the most liberal limit of any state in the union. He had sense enough to make it illegal to shoot hens as well. Seems to me like it has worked beautifully.
Maybe, just maybe they set the limit at 1 per day to keep some yahoo from cutting down on a flock of early spring gobblers and killing 2 and maiming a couple more for the coyotes all in one fell swoop. That makes perfect sense to me

Yep

The old timers were killing gobblers and hens, and doing it all thru the year. I think everyone knows that's different than killing a spring gobbler.

I've always tried to be careful to point out that the mature gobbler population can be reduced to the point that it hurts the overall population, but that I've never seen that happen on any place that I've hunted. If you don't have enough left to breed the hens, then you have a problem. If you are still hearing turkeys gobble at the end of the season, then its not a problem in that area.

How else could it hurt the overall population? They don't sit on the nests or help raise the poults. What is it they do, other than breed the hens?

PCP, ya do know "they" raised the limit to 6 for a couple three er so years, then back to five???

Troy, I remember the 6 bird limit well. I never was able to get 6. I never knew why they raised it or why they reduced it back. It's kind of a moot point anyway. As best I can tell, in the more than 50 years they've had a season limit there has never been a single person prosecuted for exceeding it. That ain't much of a record for supporting season limits of any number.

Meanwhile, I have kin that had to pay the fine for breaking the daily limit.

It oughta just be one a day. They could enforce that and the outlaws could become respectable citizens.

Reread my post. I was talking about the one per day making it harder for folks to kill 5. Folks can cut down on or maim birds regardless of the limit per day. It makes perfect sense to me. I'm sure the State and Auburn are doing their turkey study just to waste money.


Good luck this season guys and gals.

I killed the six bird limit every year it was in place. One of those six bird limits was with a double SXS muzzleloader. Like you I never knew why they raised it or lowered it.

If it ain't broke don't fix it. I personally believe our population of wild turkeys is fine. How do they know sitting in the air conditioned office or the heater for that matter. Drop it to1 or 3 or leave it idont really care,

Anybody can kill a deer but just anybody is not gonna kill a turkey.

your right, N2! enforcing it isn't easy either way.

BHam, 1 a day is no different than 5 in one day, that only works for honest turkey hunters, and I haven't met to many of them. I'm on board with it being 1 a day and being enforced, but you can only stop an honest criminal...

1 a day is a lot different than 5 a day. IF legal 5 in a day would increase the total season kill of gobblers by allowing a hunter, esp early season, to whack 2,3,4 birds at once. Starting the season with 3 birds sure make 5 a lot easier to get to.

How out of touch is the public on what we do? You think we sit in an air conditioned office all day? I've been working outside the last a TWO days, and have three more days of field work this week. Most others do too.

PCP, I was supposed to get your 5 bird limit info if it's available. Forgive me.

Lowering the legal limit would increase the number of gobbling turkeys, therefore increasing hunter satisfaction. Just a thought. No one has said the limit should be or will be lowered at this point. But, all options are on the table while evaluating a trend of declining turkey populations.

Matt, the way I look at it. Most people can't kill more than a gobbler or two a season. I'd really like to see those numbers, because I would imagine the percentage who kill 4 or 5 or more is very small. And typically those that can kill 4 or 5 or more, are not the ones complaining..... So if you have a property that bubba hunts and he can't kill enough birds to make a difference anyways, then reducing a limit isn't going to raise his satisfaction. Because bubba sucks at turkey hunting, and Bubba ain't gonna be happy either way.

>>>I killed the six bird limit every year it was in place. One of those six bird limits was with a double SXS muzzleloader. Like you I never knew why they raised it or lowered it.<<<

That's super cool! You still got it and hunt with it some? Lets see a pic of that ultimate turkey gun!

>>>PCP, I was supposed to get your 5 bird limit info if it's available. Forgive me.<<<

No problem, Matt. I didn't even remember who said it. I don't believe they will give it to you anyway.


>>>Lowering the legal limit would increase the number of gobbling turkeys, therefore increasing hunter satisfaction. <<<<

Now whether that is a true statement or not depends entirely on the information I've been requesting. If the number of birds in the total harvest that are birds #4 and #5 is a pretty significant number, then you will be right. If its as low as I suspect it is, it won't make a bit of difference in the world and might even be detrimental. You'd have to look back at the philosophy of Charles Kelley to figure out how it might be detrimental, and I doubt there is anyone in Montgomery now who remembers.

But you gotta admit that under his leadership, we went from almost no turkeys to the biggest flock in the nation per acre. He musta been doing something right.

PCP. I had my run ins with Mr Charles Kelly, he poked his finger in my chest and said he's fire me if he had to make up something to fire me for!!!! But I tell you this, I worked under a couple three other Directors after him and I'd take Mr Kelly over any one of those who followed him. You knew where he stood, and that he was going to stand firm.

I arrested the Al Prison Commish(and his wife) on the State Prison Farm at Greensboro for no license on a dove shoot. Mr Kelly called me monday morning to ask what happened...I told him...the guy paid the fine. Every Commish since then would of ordered me to tear up the ticket.....

I try my best to limit out every season here in Alabama,and I it has nothing to do with my ego,or bragging rites.I love to hunt Turkeys period.....If Alabama had a 10 bird limit I would try to kill 10,if it was 3 I would try for 3.
I happen to hunt several tracts of land,and am very careful not to over kill birds on any one of them,with doing this I am certain to have birds to hunt on these properties every year.I have been doing this for years,and it has proven effective.
My question for those of you in favor of a lower limit,that swear they stop at 3,but continue to call birds in for inexperienced hunters,just what have you accomplished? A dead turkey is dead,no matter how how he gets dead,and if you want a lower limit then why would you continue to call birds,when in fact you have stated there needs to be fewer birds killed.
I am also opposed to killing multiple birds a day,but that is a horse of a different color.If I kill my limit,I want 5 totally different hunts/experiences.

Even if that was the case, then do it on public lands and let me ruin my gobbling on my property if I so chose! My satisfaction might be best increased by killing 5 turkeys



There has only been Corky and Sykes since him and Sykes has only been there less than 2 years?

actually I was counting Commissioners in there too, because they had no real say when Kelly was in there....

Which come and go like the wind