What kind of speed are you traditional shooters getting?

I'm curious because I was looking over the ASA rules for this year and noticed that the speed limit for traditional is 280 fps, the same as my compound class.

I have a Damon Howatt Mamba recurve that I play around with and I feel like it's quick for a stick but no where near that fast.

What are you guys getting?

I shoot heavy arrows, 570gr , out of 52-57# longbows and recurves. Speed is 140-165fps. 200fps is pretty hard to reach with a hunting weight arrow shot from a 40-60# bow, no matter the design of the bow.


Those guys are shooting very light arrows, prolly 3-4grains of arrow weight per pound of bow pull. I shoot 10-12gr/pound.

light arrows are faster, penetrate less, stress the bow more, and are waythehell louder. Speed is only an advantage on paper targets in my opinion. I can't shoot accurately enough at longer ranges(30+yards) to gain any advantage of a flatter shooting arrow. Much less giving up penetration. Placement and penetration is what kills.

Hey guys, I am shooting a 45# Samick Sage, but only pulling 40# because of my short draw length (26.5"), and shooting a 512 grain arrow.

I shot through a chrono last year and got a reading of 142 fps. I can't wait to get good enough to hunt with it! Thanks.

218 with my ILF rig and 5gpp. It's my target rig and I hunt with heavier arrows.It is also designed to be safe to shoot those weights. Most wood and fiberglass bows would fail after a while with such light arrows.

I honesty don't know.

I got back in traditional archery to quit worrying about stuff like that.



God Bless,
David B.

Good point

Thanks BFred, Poohbear and RH for answering my question.
That's what I was looking for as I've never seen a stick that would get close to 280.
Guess I can quit worrying about it now too.

You won't see a stick bow get that. I have shot 65# on a Widow in the past and I bet it barely hit 190 with the heads and heavy arrows I used. That is just from calculation and not official so I may have not even gotten that.

With your average stick bow I think you may be looking at 150. That is just from personal observation and isn't an actual statistic. The important thing is, any 50# stick bow with the right heads and arrow weight will kill any animal you wish to kill.

In my experience the best stick bows with longer draws will shoot in the 180's to around 190 with 9gpp arrows.

That's probably right. I just have never really worried about it. My draw is around 29.5

I don't worry too much either. I want an efficient bow but there are a lot of qualities in a trad bow I value more than speed.

Yep. My shoots plenty hard enough and is as quiet as you could possibly want. A properly tuned trad bow only produces a thump instead of high pitched noises. In my experience, I get very little if any reaction to the thump. It has never been enough to affect my shot. I can't tell you how many multiple shot chances I've gotten on a deer.

Here is what I am getting out of a 45# Samick Sage with a 440 grain Beman 600 Centershot. Killed a 183# nine point in October with a 40# Samick Sage, it was probably in the 140 fps range.

nothing wrong with that speed.

That's, what I've been looking for is actual numbers.

Still can't figure out why ASA traditional class is set at 280. Seems unrealistic.

I've never heard of any trad bow/arra setup reaching anywhere near 280fps

My thoughts exactly.
That's why I couldn't figure out why the traditional class was set up that way.
Why put an unattainable speed limit out there if you're trying to level the playing field.

Man I have no idea. I have googled and yahoo'd every phrase/question/statement I can think of to find an explanation of why it is set up to a speed unattainable - as far as I'm concerned - for traditional shooters with absolutely nothing. It's all about wheel bow fps.

I sent a text to Toby @ Black Widow to see if he knows. He's a guru, so if he doesn't know, we'll just call it a very arbitrary rule where the ASA said "screw it."

Sounds good to me.
Thanks for going to the trouble.

I have a Samick Sage and 2 70s vintage Bear Grizzlies.
Sage and the Grizz I shoot the most are 45lbs, I do use fast flight strings on these bows which bumps up the speed.
Really haven't chrono them but probly around 170 if I had to guess.
I shot right over a deer's back 2 weeks ago, she jumped when the arrow fletching brushed her back but she never heard the bow.
Quietness is what I'm after. Yea, I've never seen a recurve or longbow shoot 280.
Poohbear..good look , just keep practicing.
Maybe you'l do better than me and not shoot over their back.lol
I only been shootin recurves for 42 years..cant hit em all.

That's my exact setup and draw length. My arrows are 29.25" and 175 gr field point. They are the Beman 600 Centershot, you might want to try them to reduce the overall weight and pickup a little speed. All you need to to is bareshaft tune and cutting 1/8" at a time off the carbons as they stiffen very quickly to being cut down spine wise. If you are shooting a 125 grain or 145 grain head spine might be a problem even on full length shaft, or at least that is what I found.

9 to 10 grains per pound is good for a recurve.
Some longbows I like to go a little heavier.

You won't have any problems if you use the correct spine. You can get spines way lighter than .600 if you use the correct vendor. 3Rivers rarely sells spines under .600 and try to pawn off that spine on any bow ,even those under 45 lbs.

Most bows of 45lbs will use a .600 spine ,which is why you are having to shoot heavier tips. Lancaster Archery is much better at correctly choosing spine. Carbon Express makes an arrow called the Predator II that is an inexpensive carbon in lighter spines all the way to .1000 deflection. You just have to use half out inserts and smaller diameter tips.

This is not usually a problem for finding hunting heads since most people hunt with 45lbs and up bows, so use standard arrows of .600 or greater with standard point inserts.

You should never cut carbons until you know for sure what tip weights you will be shooting and try them first, at full length.

I want to say I got a little over 200 with a 60lb damon howatt mamba made in the 1960s with the lightest arrows I could shoot from it.

That light arrows for speed experiment didn't last long. I went back to a heavier arrow/broadhead setup and was shooting in the high 170s. My draw length is 28".

I feel like the light arrows were at least a part of why the limb tip delaminated on it a couple of years ago.

No problem man. Now that you asked, I would like to know. I have never actually competed in one of those, although I have done some traditional shoots for fun. I haven't heard back, but with Christmas money and bonuses this time of year, I'm sure they are busy. I wish they were busy making me a new KBX Chechen wood bow....

Going to light will damage limbs so that is probably what happened. I know plenty of guys could be getting 200+ with a recurve, its just not advisable due to the set up you would have to get the 200+.

I won't do it again, that's for sure. Somehow that bow made it from 196* to 1988 when I bought it for like 20 bucks. I used it as a loner and a back yard toy for three or four years, then I hunted with it some, then I didn't. Over time, it came to be my bow hunting tool even though it was never really first in line. I miss shooting it the most.

I can still draw a bow a few times in a month (45lb similar vintage ben pearson and a new samick I think is 20lbs or maybe 25) so I will continue to shoot but I probably won't ever be able to practice enough to hunt with a real bow again.

High end ILF limbs,and not all of those, are the only limbs I know of designed to shoot 4-5 gpp. Even so 9gpp and up is always easier on a bow.

That is correct. I've never owned an ILF, but I am sure it would still be better with a heavier arrow.

Depends on how you define better. Mine shoots quietly and without any shock at 5gpp. You would get a bit better penetration for hunting with heavier arrows but even at 5gpp it would blow right through ribs.

Toby said "I have no idea. That's crazy fast." Lol it shall remain a mystery

Not to change the subject, but I just got an email that a package coming UPS from Black Widow!!! PSAIV - Greenleaf 45#@27" 60", Woohoo!!

Cadillac bow! Good huntin bow.

Congrats! I hunt with a PLX.

Maybe next week I will post another chrony picture for the speed demons!

Haha post it! My bow is the PMAII greybark. Great shooting bows

Okay you bunch of speed freaks! Here is the 45# Black Widow PSA recurve with a 9.7 grain/pound arrow. Shooting 3 under with a glove.

176 will kill any animal you want to kill.

I bought a new Widow myself. Chechen wood and Creamy Etimoe. I wasn't going to and then I had a case of the can't help its.

58" KBX with asbell grip. 55# @ 28.

Good looking bow! I thought I would get one of the standard models to get used to it and then move on up to the exotics once I did some hands on!

I love them. They are smoothest shooting bows I have ever owned. They beat Bear hands down IMO and Bear is a good quality bow.

I'm going to disagree with Black Widows being smoother shooting than Bears. I have shot a lot of both and the Bear TD 60" 52# is way smoother shooting than any Widow I have personally shot, though it is prolly not as fast as a Widow of same weight.

Widow does make some dang good looking bows for sure.

I hunt with a PLX and have used several Widow recurves. I've owned over 20 top name bows but nothing is smoother than my Dala with Carbon and maple limbs,no glass at all in the limbs.

Haha maybe that's an "eye of the beholder" thing. I 'll concede in my younger days before I understood proper tuning is when I owned a couple Bear recurves.