Hey CNC

I�m tired of dealing with weeds. Thought about letting this thick wheat grow until the spring, terminate it, lay it over and then plant the garden veggies in the remaining thatch. Seems it would help minimize weeds, hold moisture, recycle nutrients, help make healthy soil, etc. I wonder if I�d need to transplant everything though or should veggie seeds punch through the thatch with no problems? CNC, or others, got any advice?

Go for it!......Grow it out tall, press it over to make a mat and terminate it.....Use a weedeater turnt up sideways like an edger to cut out rows to plant your seed in.

Farmers are doing it more with row crops. Better for the soil to have cover, than bare dirt.

I would transplant the veggies and try not to disturb the soil too much. Disturb the soil too much and your defeating the purpose of the mulch.

Here is an update on this new garden method. My first attempt, but so far so good. For seeds I found it best to simply take a little wooden dowel and punch a little hole. For the transplants I've been using a bulb planter to pull our a plug of soil. Obviously, still too early to tell how it's going to do at keeping out weeds, hold moisture, etc. I terminated the wheat about 3 weeks prior to planting. After it had a chance to die down some I used a push mower to lay it down. My neighbors must have thought I was loopy pushing a mower that wasn't running over dried wheat.

Cool man!.....Keep us updated.

I hope it works joe cause I want to do it next year. I always plant a little of my garden on the same day I do my food plots so I have a little "test" plot at the house I can monitor progress. So I'll plant the whole thing this fall if your successful.

CNC could soil compaction become an issue?

I don’t think it would…Not unless you already an issue to begin with..Just keep a root system in place at all times. When you terminate one root system then another is coming in behind it to take its place. Even though it’s been terminated, the cereal grain roots in Joe’s garden are still stabilizing the top soil right now and helping to maintain the “structure” of his soil. They serve as framework basically…….It would be a good idea to add in some radishes into the cover crop mix along with some clover. The radishes would take that root framework deeper into the soil profile and the clover would provide a little extra N to compensate for what the biomass will tie up as it begins to decompose. Vetch would be another option for a legume.

It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to dust the whole garden with a little 34-0-0.....

This kinda started in a similar manner. I've also planted a little section at home about the same time at the farm so I could monitor general progress. I'll try to keep this topic updated throughout the summer.

Do you terminate it with roundup or such?
I really like this idea. Just wish I had seen something like this in the fall so I could have planted wheat when I did my food plots!
Thanks for the post!
David

Bump

Sorry, yes. Terminated with generic glyphosate (active ingredient in RoundUp).

Thank you sir!

Put some seeds in the ground before the rain last weekend. Before that, it had been relatively dry. I was impressed with how moist the soil was below the thatch and how much cooler the dirt was. Those seeds should punch through in a couple days hopefully. Rattlesnake beans from a previous planting are up though!

Following with interest!

Me 2

Corn punched through. I'm still trying to figure out in my head how the vegetable seeds are germinating well and coming through the thatch while at the same time the thatch is somehow preventing weeds from doing the same.

A stab at my own question, but maybe small weed seeds don’t have enough energy built in to push through the thatch? Kinda like how clover won’t germinate well if planted too deep.

Looking good man!

CNC, Joe asked earlier, but I wanted to see your opinion. Why don't the spring/summer weed seedbank come up through the thatch if the other seeds can? What if say millet was spread under it. Would it not come up?

It’s a couple things……..One big reason is that the seed bank hasn’t been disturbed. The other reason is Joe has put down a thick mat of straw that’s shaded out the soil surface. His seeds are in a good place for germination and the only holes in the straw are the ones Joe is making to plant the seed. When farmers press large fields of cereal rye and drill into them with a drill, it’s the little cutters on the drill that create these openings in the mat of hay for just the seed we planted to come through. When I do throw and mow……the mowing part scatters and piles the straw in an erratic pattern instead of a nice flat mat. That leaves me space between the straw pieces for the new seeds I just threw down to penetrate through before the hay settles down to the soil surface.

Don’t think it’ll stay weed free forever though. You’re just getting a head start. As soil temps warm more and more and the hay degrades….you’ll eventually have some grasses and weeds start penetrating through. You want to use the vegetables you’re planting to shade out the soil surface so that no new grasses and weeds can see sunlight. You want to plant things thick enough that you don’t have a bunch of empty space. You’re putting a canopy over the soil surface…..shading it out. This also keeps soil temps cooler and preserves moisture. You could scatter a little more hay in the gaps as the summer progresses if you want to.

So...am I correct in saying that millett spread under a mat of the grass the way Joe did it probably wouldn't grow. However, if the rye was terminated, millett seed spread a week later, and then bushhogged, it would likely produce results? What I am getting at is a test field that I could grow a fall plot of cereal rye, clover, and wheat, have clover for spring, then have either millett or sorghum grow all summer, before terminating to fall mix again.

Exactly…….You would probably want to spread your millet in late May or June after the cereal grains and clovers have dried but before a whole lot of summer weed growth starts encroaching....

Absolutely zero tillage and a little weeding here and there by hand. Do have a couple spots that could use some work. Dang vine borers or whatever are picking off my squash plants though.

WOW!! Looks great!!!!

I’ve got a question now that you’ve got your garden up and growing well Joe…….

Why don’t more people plant this way?? Why do most folks still start the process by tilling up their garden?

For me, part of the hold back was that I had my granddad's garden tiller and I guess there was the whole sentimental aspect going on. Part of my switch was due to the fact that the tiller engine is now on the go kart. I think another reason is it takes some planning...I had this idea in mind last year and had to plant the wheat in the fall to be ready for the spring. I've also run into some people (not on Aldeer) that don't understand how glyphostate works (they think it would affect the next round of crops). Of course, the wheat could have been terminated differently.

That’s something I’ve asked myself ……even towards my own old methods…..Why did I do it that way in the past??…….

I think the #1 reason why most of us do is because “that’s just the way it’s always been done”. We’ve gotten to the point where we don’t even question “why” we do it a certain way anymore. There’s no stopping and asking the question….”Do I have to do that?”…..”Do I have to own a garden tiller to plant a garden?” Once something becomes engrained in us as “the way” then the conversation becomes more about psychology than soil science. I think it's actually rooted in survival instincts.

I think I saw where Grant Woods does this. He drills his seeds in. Calls it a buffalo method?

Yep. He’s trying to get away from having to spray (cuts costs). He uses a crimper to terminate when he can.

Here is a June 14 update. About to get covered up in beans.

Looks good.