Breed ethics?

Curious why some consider it okay/ethical to push ‘silver’ labs as real, authentic, true to breed and standard, while anyone selling any other imitation item in the world, would get hammered for fake advertising? It’s like saying you have a purple factory finished leupold, when leupold has never made one.....then folks getting in line and paying twice the cost than for a regular/real leupold, because purple is cool, and someone besides leupold swore to them it was really a leupold. I’m not slandering the dogs, but the ethics of their representation vs the breeds. If you want to hybridize your own strains for certain traits, that’s fine. If you want to own those, that’s fine. I just don’t think you get to ethically call them ‘original’ , just because it allows a higher price. I’d love to cross AWS and Lab lines, to have another retriever breed....but I couldn’t ethically call the offerings wavy coat labradors and register as chocolate labs, no matter how many rebreedings back to labs I did just to COVER UP where the wavy coat came from. There exists a flat coated retriever. You could start a ‘gray retriever’ breed. Look at labradoodles and golden doodles for example. I love most ANY good natured dog. I just question some folks who get this stuff started, not those who get caught up in it.

JMO.

I don't know much about silver labs or so called "red" labs. But along the same lines of keeping a bad gene out of the pool, I had a buddy 25 years ago who had a Rhodesian Ridgeback dog at one time. Beautiful dog and he would breed her with another stud and have the prettiest pups. But he wouldn't sell a pup if it was not perfect. He was a purist and although I didn't agree with it, if a pup was born without the ridge down the back, he dispatched it with a .22. Fortunately, that was a rare. But it did keep the gene pool from being diluted with "inferior" genetics.

Dr. B

anybody who would shoot a puppy with a .22 because it didn't meet some standard is headed to hell.

There's no real evidence to back up that "silver labs" have weimeraner in them. Silver labs are just a recessive chocolate that carries the gene for dilution. It's the same as champagne (dilute yellow) and charcoal (dilute black).

Yeah I can agree. Fortunately, he turned his life around 180 degrees and definitely not the same person he was back then.

Dr. B

Every silver lab pedigree I have ever seen traced it's lineage back to Culo Kennels. May not be on the 3 or 5 generation pedigree but it is there. Culo Kennels did not keep very good records and happened to breed both labs and weimeramers.

AFAIK, no lab ever had a d gene turned on/doubled, until Culo kennels dogs, which also had Weimaraners, I thought.

Also fox red labs are a shade of yellow, and always have been, as a yellow select just turns on two more genes, which control the darkness between almost white, to full on red. There’s no ‘dilute’ in labs, afaik either. That also seems to be an invention to explain the genetic cross.

http://www.thelabradorclub.com/subpages/show_contents.php?page=silver+labradors

People are nuts about their dern dogs...and snobs to say the least.

All in all whether it's a chocolate, black, yellow, silver or polkadotted labrador...

They have ALL been interbred to achieve certain characteristics...

Don't breed the silver labs, they're going to ruin the genepool of the dogs that we decided that would only fit in our little club!

Don't get me wrong, I've got a sure enough good looking english black lab that loves to retrieve some dead birds but these kennel/purist/snobby wobby people make me shake my head.

LOL

I don’t think you’re getting the point. There are rules/guidelines for a reason within ANY breed, otherwise they aren’t a breed. It was ONLY when establishing a breed, that crossing is part of creation. Nobody is being snobbish about whatever a dog might be. Some just don’t see it as ethical (or good for the breed) for some to knowingly mislead others, to make $. If that’s okay with you, you’re probably okay with buying that secretly rebuilt truck, because it’s cheaper and got ‘factory’ camo paint.

....and, my bigger peeve/issue? Dogs bred specifically for looks....color, size, leg length, etc.....that crap is for non-working, non-sporting dogs. If you aren’t breeding for mental and physical ABILITIES above appearance, then it’s likely a mistake. If they happen to look good, too?....bonus.

Yep, inbreeding always works out.

Yeah....Dalmatians.....were apparently a good bird dog before the spots became ‘trendy’.

I agree with almodux. The biggest issue with silver labs (apart from the issue of being mixed with weimaraners) is the fact that hunting ability and temperament, which are defining factors of the breed, are often ignored so that the "diluted" color may be bred for. Not to mention the health issues that often arise...

It's all in what you want. If you want jam up duck dog, buy one from that line. If you want a show champion, buy one from that line. If you want a silver lab, buy one that has a dilute gene.

Do jam up black dogs that weigh 100 pounds bother you? They don't fit the breed standard either ya know.

I think you’re confusing breed vs breed standard vs ethics. I’m not talking about some AKC show stature at all. I’m talking about a Labrador retriever vs a NOT a Labrador retriever and/or breeding OUTSIDE what a breed is, intentionally, and still saying it’s the same breed. No different (again) than crossing in a poodle with a beagle, then breeding back to beagles, then becoming the only kennel to sell AKC curly coated beagles. Even if you suddenly had one curly coated beagle in your pure bred beagle litter, that doesn’t mean there’s some dilute curly gene in beagles that one person just happened upon after more than a hundred years. If you then breed for those anamolies, regardless of cause, for marketing, you do a disservice to both dogs and buyers....not to mention the breed. You want a lab that’s silver, buy one. Just don’t think it’s a natural, lab thing. A good dog is a good dog, and it doesn’t care what you call it. I don’t either, until it comes time to vouch for something on a paper that involves $ and ethics and disclosure. If I found I had a genetic Anatoly specific to a different breed in dog’s I was selling, I’d have to disclose and price accordingly. The opposite Dems to be the case with some stuff these days. It’s not the fault of your average breeder or owner, but those that started it to begin with.

I’m not downing anyone’s choice of dog, preferences, or what they do. I’m just saying there’s some truth that seems to be being avoided, for whatever reason. Just my opinions, and there worth what you paid. LOL

basically only true lab is a lab that run hunt test and is black?

Basically, some folks can’t read or just wanna be drama queens.

I don’t care what anyone does with a lab and I’m no huge fan of everything involved in the (not really) hunt tests. You can run a hunt test with any breed you like, and labs aren’t colored like wiemeraners. If you’re gonna pay good $ for a well bred lab, I don’t care what color the lab is, as long as it’s a lab and not something not pure bred, but you’re just paying for the color. I happen to love red factoring in yellow labs, but retrieving and temperament and can I sell some pups off a good, pure line, are more important than color.

10/4 on black labs being the only real lab

And if you didn't care y'all my lab is superior people wouldn't bring this up every 3 weeks. And by the way I do not have a silver lab

LOL

REAL LABS:

Very pretty dog

Thanks. Bottom pic is Rusty, who made it to 13-1/2, and we had to put down in Nov 2015. That was his last hunt....two limits. Top pic is the new addition, YLF Charlie, who is just now at 14 weeks. Both of her parents were well on the red side of yellow, but hunters, first. I’ve had all colors, just seem to gravitate to yellows, and darker is better.

I have a yellow he is not a bird dog, I use him to track deer. He is probably a once in a lifetime dog. Never gave me a minutes trouble even as a puppy. I want another one just gotta come up with the $. I prefer yellow, would love a red, but when I get one I will buy the best dog I can afford regardless.

Those kinda dogs leave a mark. Rusty (on bottom) was a ‘once in a lifetime’ dog, as well. I’ve had a several great labs, but he was so tuned in and had such a nose, you could take 5min (usually less), and have him doing anything from finding deer to herding cows. Dog understood complete sentences better than most humans. LOL

A good friend of mine had a big ol black lab he named Mookie several years ago. He would retrieve anything you wanted to hunt, trail a wounded deer and was dang good at baby sitting. He would put his two sons in the yard to play and if they started to wander off Mookie would get them back into the play area. Somebody stole Mookie out of their yard.

Have you guys seen the you tube video about "Ruff"? Look it up, it's a tear jerker.

A dog thief is right up there with a child abuser in the evil scale. I had a great yellow poisoned one time. I’d tar and feather whoever that was, too.