Question about Swan Creek WMA hunting

Learned yesterday that waterfowl hunters can have only one box of shells on Swan Creek WMAs and Jackson County WMAs. I did not know this had been instituted. What a crock of chit.


Also, the second sentence in this regulation that begins "All activity ..." indicates that ANY activity on Swan Creek WMA is prohibited in the three days listed (below). Anything? No small game hunting or nada? Is this true?

If so, any activity is prohibited for a third of the year - 156 days - on the WMA along with the shooting range closed during waterfowl season?


(h) It shall be unlawful to hunt waterfowl in Swan Creek WMA Dewatering Unit on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays, except for the last two weeks of waterfowl season. All activity in the Swan Creek WMA dewatering unit is prohibited on those days unless authorized by WFF personnel. During the dates between the youth season and regular season gates to West Dike Road and the Main Launch Road will be locked. All activity in and around the dewatering unit during this time is prohibited.

Dang MAN....the limit is 6 ducks.....A Dozen shells should get that done.....Unless One is a Skybuster.

Swan creek dewatering unit
I may be wrong but doesn’t that only mean the part they flood where the blinds are?

It also says that you can have more shells in your truck.. and the birds need a few days of rest after a weekend of pressure like they get there. We have to remember that if we kill all the game there is nothing left. Conservation is more important than killing 6 ducks every day and blowing through 100 shells.

they do that to prevent what Festus said. If you have only 25 shells, you're gonna be mighty careful about your shots and not skyblast every duck that flies within 100 yards of the blind. Good luck with your hunt!

Dr. B

Perhaps we should take of 2-3 days of deer hunting every week to "give them some rest" as well. And squirrels, rabbits and all game. Maybe have Monday through Wednesday off limits on the state lakes to help the fish recover from tournaments in summer.

Duck hunters have about 60-70 days of the year to hunt. Those who cannot hunt except on public land like Swan Creek have their opportunities cut significantly. That's hooey. Wheeler Refuge has plenty of places for them to rest.

But yeah, let's give the ducks some days to rest.

They’re migratory birds. Letting them rest can help establish historic habitat that can be used from generation to generation. If you opened the flood gates to hunters, they’d burn the place down and in 5 years there’d be no ducks to hunt. Alabama just doesn’t sit in a flyway, so all help is needed to attract AND keep ducks. The state just wants to maintain some quality, waterfowl oriented and managed, public hunting land. I don’t see what the big deal is.

Have you ever hunted Swan Creek? It has been established for a long time. Birds have been coming for years before they started the weekday closure. Closing it during the week has done absolutely nothing for the place except inhibiting people from hunting on good weather days that fall during the week, and causing extreme over crowding on the few days it is now open.

In response to the OP, only the dewatering Unit is closed to access on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday during the regular waterfowl season, except for the last two weeks of season.

LOL ... setting up "historic habitat."

Ducks and geese have migrating here to north Alabama from Canada for hundreds of years. Hundreds. You know why they come here to Swan Creek and Jackson County and the land around the refuge and Blackwell Swamp and other small pothole tupelo swamps that dot north Alabama?

Because they've been coming here for hundreds of years. Just like they have been in Illinois, Missouri, Arkansas, Mississippi on down to Louisiana, and along the other flyways. Swan Creek has been public land for decades. The refuge was created in 1938 as part of over-winter grounds for migratory birds.

Establishing "rest days" doesn't do squat for creating "historic habitat." All it does is give reduce work for a few days and help some folks feel good about being "conservationists."


Thanks, DoeMaster, for clarity on the dewatering unit.

No I’ve never hunted Swan Creek. Nor do I ever plan on hunting it if I have to share it with someone with a 3.5” blackcloud up their a$$. Thanks for the history lesson. I’ll tell my grandkids about it one day.

I'm a fan of the 3-inch, to be honest.

Was some mighty fine duck hunting at Swann Creek back in the late 90s early 2000s. It was one of our favorite places to hunt but the mild winters and all of the duck commanders made it not worth going anymore. I truly miss those days. I bet its a chit show on a Saturday morning with decent weather now with the new regs. As for the range, it has always been closed during duck season.

Clem,

I’ve hunted a lot of different places, in different states, that reduced the days you could hunt. They all improved drastically after it was implemented. Same with a box of shells or less regulations.

Swan creek used to be a lot of fun, but had turned into a complete chit show by the time I quit duck hunting. I’m sure the locals bitch about the new regulations, but it’s a good thing.

I’ll give you a prime example. Swan creek vs. eufaula Nwr. Swan is in about as good of a location as you can have in Alabama. Eufaula is in a marginal area of the state for birds. Swan was normally good opening day, a handful of really good weather days through the season, and during the youth hunt. Eufaula was good 80% of the days I hunted it over the years. The difference? Swan had better habitat and way more birds in the area, but it was a free for all and got hammered every day of the season which pushed all the birds onto wheeler. Eufaula limited hunter numbers, limited you to a box of shells, and only hunted each side one day a week. Night and day better than swan.

Could only tote 15 shells in Bayou Meto.

Competition hunting has changed things.

They do the same thing on public land in Arkansas. Goal is to keep a group of hunters from setting up and sky blasting all day long and harassing the ducks and other hunters. Encourages folks to THINK about their shots. Its public land and they are trying to make the best experience for all and also help manage the resource. Great concept to keep it a free for all and to open it up to everything for everyone all the time, but the reality of that type of situation creates chaos and a degraded experience for most. The locals I have talked to in Arkansas like the box or shells or less on public land rule.

Side note - Heading north across the TN river on 65 on Sat AM about 7:30, I saw a flight of about 25 Sandhill Cranes.

Kind of defeats the purpose though when you can have a case of shells in your truck. 5 minute boat ride each time and you can sky bust for hours.

I began hunting at Swan in the late 1970s. I know about the skybusting, calling other birds over someone else's blind, all the stuff good and bad. My father hunted there for 20ish years prior.

Regulating ammo is a slippery slope no matter how anyone wants to couch it. "You don't need but ..." comes into play. But it's the DCNR's call on the lands it manages, and it's done a good job of brainwashing some of y'all into thinking that limiting your ammo is a good thing. Perhaps it should limit deer hunters to one arrow or two rifle cartridges on WMAs, too. Because if you have to really think about your shot, and are proficient, you shouldn't need more than one arrow or a couple of cartridges.



As for Arkansas, the AGFC did that because Bayou Meto is THE place every duck hunter wants to hunt. It's like getting a chance to take batting practice at Yankee Stadium or play football with your pals on Tuberville Field at Bryant-Denny Stadium, or play hoops with friends at The Forum or Madison Square Garden.

Y'all know about all the chit at Bayou Meto - fights, sleeping in trucks, leaning against a tree 150 yards from someone. It got stupid - pretty much like what was going on in Jackson County's WMAs. The only difference in Swan Creek WMA and Jackson County, and Arkansas, is no one travels from Arizona or Ohio or south Florida to Decatur to hunt at Swan Creek. But they go to Bayou Meto and elsewhere in Arkansas because it's "the" destination. The pressure there was unreal.

Credit to DCNR, I guess, for creating yet another great experience. That's what today's young hunters and the mid-age Millennials want - the "experience." If it was about conservation they'd whack off another day, further limit the number of hunters, plant more food for migratory birds and perhaps even have a stricter state limit than the feds allow. Who needs six ducks? Four would be fine. Maybe even three. Because that would be good for the birds.

In reality, it's more regulations, more restrictions and fewer days of hunting opportunities.

Clem - Comparing duck hunting to deer hunting is, well, like comparing duck hunting to deer hunting. As you well know, two totally different things with their own unique sets of difficulties and challenges. In my mind, setting reasonable limits on the number of shells in certain situations does not equate to brainwashing. It might just be the appropriate response to addressing an issue and creating the best hunting experience for all. After all, that's why we all go, whether public or private hunting, is a good experience and the chance to take a few ducks or a deer.

As for 'experience', as public landowners, all of us should expect some sort of decent user experience. Maybe that is places to hunt, days to hunt, types of game, appropriate regulations that give everyone a relatively even playing field and managed and available game. I get the Libertarian take, since most people I hunt with fall into that category to some extent, even myself. I have no doubt that if everyone were like Clem or Overland or 75% of the people on this site, there would be no need for limits on shells or game or other such regulations. Times change. A lot of folks aren't like the aldeer crew, the skies and fields are not limitless and regs/rules have to adjust to make sure its here and accessible for all who want to take part in it.

I’d guess that as limits and number of days have increased from 3/30 to 6/60 overall hunter satisfaction has probably gone downward.

Carter, you likely saw the old days of lead and points give way to a 1-bird day and then gradually increase to what we have now. We've pretty much run the gamut. I'd agree with you that the generous limits probably have helped decrease satisfaction to some degree.

I'd have to look at the numbers but we've had 6/60 for several years. At first blush that indicates population numbers over the long term are good and can support those days and limit(s). I'm not green enough to think, though, that money and Big Waterfowl Industry hasn't played a role in some way in keeping those generous days-limits in place over possible biological concerns. Cutting to 40/4 or 30/3 would hit everything from guns-ammo to lodges, travel (gas, hotels, food) and Big Waterfowl would holla.





A lot of gun control regulations are instituted or proposed because of the bad people, which leaves the good people affected.

Same with hunting. I'm damned sure not in favor of "I shoot everything, gotta get my limit every time!" for ducks, or deer (or anything). It just sucks that another restriction has been implemented and more days have been taken away from hunters, who already have limited seasons.

Maybe it'll help. I guess we'll find out in 15-20 years when the next generation has another set of restrictions implemented.

It was much Simpler and much more Special here in East Alabama when all we had to hunt was Quail,Doves,Squirrels,Rabbits. Ducks: A couple barrel blistering wood duck roost shoots per season.....Occasional small pockets of Mallards and Black Ducks. Deer and Turkey Screwed all that Up....

I don't like the hunting on certain days only because of like stated earlier the timing of the fronts and actual good weather days that seem to come on non hunting days . I prefer out by noon . I also don't mind the shell limit of 15 to 25 as that should be a plenty . Not sure about the 6 duck limit it may need to be dropped but I'm not for reducing the length of a already short season . Much rather see more effort put into Swan and other North Alabama areas as it has more potential than is being realized . Want be like a Flyway state by any means but it can be better .

If you can’t kill a limit of birds with a box of shells I’d tend to think maybe duck hunting isn’t your thing. Personally it wouldn’t bother me one bit if they’d reduce it to 15 shells. Be a whole lot of folks working birds more and being a lot more selective with their shots.

Fifteen? Why 15? If you're a good shot you only should need six shells. Why allow more than double? With just six shells, there'd be a whole lot of folks working birds more and being a lot more selective with their shots.

Yea I have been very fortunate duck hunting, we've had some incredible years of duck hunting. One reason I mention here what I did, my 2 duck hunting buddies are now saying they're done. I've talked with several young guys saying that it is not worth it any longer. I wonder, actually I kind believe that we are our own worst enemies. Like it has been said here before, if you want to screw something up just add people!

An apparent irony is that when I started duck hunting in the mid 80's I had a bunch of old timers telling it was a shame to start since the duck population was not what it once was, yada, yada, yada.

I get what you're saying about rules, the deer club I was pres of, we started with a 1/2 page of rules. 10 years later when I left we had 5 or 6 pages and more disgruntled folks than I thought possible. I wasn't making the rules, the board was. We were reminded constantly by one guy that we didn't need all those rules.

Flash back to a QDMA meeting when NW Al folksier wanting to implement AR rules. One of the presentations was by 2 guys from Westervelt. What they said is burned in my brain, "any time more than 10 people are in a lease trouble begins." "you can't get that many people to agree on everything"

So I guess the real question is what the answer is, I'm sure there will be way more than one wants to hear.

As far as duck hunting the State of Waterfowl is definitely worth watching.

My personal opinion, there is WAY too much pressure on waterfowl. Like one of my buddies said yesterday, there is NOT a hole he has seen that does NOT have blind on it.

My other buddy that hunts Arkansas, says the same thing for over there.

We rarely hunted past 8 or 9 and we would leave, more ducks could then use the hole.
These days, I hear about it took till 1 for everyone to get their limit. Some stay all day. Yet even more frustrated or whatever chase ducks down in their boats, flushing them at best and shooting at them at worst.

Ducks get zero rest around here compared to the past.

The local number of duck hunters today compared to the 90's is a significant increase.

License, HIP Permit, WMA permit, WMA license, WMA daily check in/out bs, non-toxic shot, state stamp, federal stamp, restricted days, some areas restricted hours and ammo

35+ years ago = hunting license, WMA license, WMA permit, state-fed stamp, go hunting

So, yeah, I can see where all the added stuff along with the increase in people would make some want to give it up. Especially if you have to hunt on public land.

Honestly I’m lost as to what the correct answer is

I’d venture to guess the hurdles are not that big a deal with the younger generations. They’ve shown they are willing to forgo personal liberties.

The complaints I’m hearing have more to do with no ducks.

A bunch of young guys I talked with yesterday have some primo private land to hunt and it’s spread out around the county. They hunt the river and said that definitely wasn’t worth it any longer.

Just saw the AGFC report from Arkansas that says they observed/estimate more geese than ducks there now. Between all the water spreading them out and slow or no migration to speak of for the second year in a row (at least), that makes it tough and frustrating.

Agree. They have no qualms about being tracked online, losing data, freely giving over data to fed-state-other agencies or companies, and believe it's no big deal.

Over commercialization just like the Eastern Shore was once the place to hunt Canada geese. As the population dwindled the pressure shifted to the Midwest and the Eastern Shore warned them. The Canada goose limits were cut and the shift was on toward the ducks. I’m betting one of the reasons the short stopping began.

Migration patterns have changed for other reasons too. We winter white pelicans these days never seen one until recent years.

You mention AR report. No surprise there. The places spending a ton of money and have resting areas with high energy feed seem to be doing well. Others not so much and more like luck of the draw. My buddy had a lease for 18 years and lost it to a higher bidder. Then again when you’re killing more than the high dollar clubs something will happen.

The good days will return and the fussing will subside.

Merry Christmas