The State of Waterfowl

Excellent! Any of you who are lifetime waterfowl hunters owe it to yourself to follow it.

Features 2 lifetime waterfowl biologists from the US and Canada, Larry Reynolds of LA, Paul Link NAWFP, Jim Ronquest of RNT, and Cason Short of Bill Byers Hunter Club.

Roundtable discussion of all the issues we THINK affect our hunting and their take on it backed up with data in most cases. They cover why ducks and geese are not in LA, TX, ARK as in the past, shortstopping (not), Agricultural practices, the effect of Canadian hunting on the resource, telemetry (which is awesome), pressure, and more.

And the devil himself, SWD's (not to be confused with CWD or STD lol) which have been around in numbers since the late 90's...lots if not all hunters under 35 have never seen decoys out without them.

Cason is Bill Byer's grandson and works the farm and the Hunter club. He is posting the discussion in easy to listen to 10-20 minute segments on the Bill Byers Hunter Club Facebook page. Bill was a huge proponent of rest areas and feed. We used to ride to Hunter just to see the waterfowl all around his place there in the 80's.

Start at the beginning and progress It's up to 11 clips right now

Interesting. Anywhere to listen to it other than Facebook?

Yes...Express Boats on YouTube. State of waterfowl.

Thanks for the heads up.

I recall all the guide services I knew of and or hunted with had resting ponds and avoided them at all cost. Casons place hunted til a certain time and that was it.

We used to never stay in our holes past 8 in the early season and 9 in the later part of the season. Now folks stay all day. Chase ducks up and down the river. Even shooting into rafts of ducks.

Its no wonder they no longer stick around.

Used to flush them out and shoot them when they back. The aide days have been long gone for years now.

We used to do that a lot around the islands over BB Comer Bridge in Gville.

IMO SWD’s and hunting pressure are the 2 key factors affecting ducking hunting. Use to 1-2 blinds on 1000 acres that only were usually hunted by friend and family. Now that 1000 acres has 5-6 and some big wig is paying $65,000 for it and has 4-5 SWD’s in each blind. Can’t call? Just put a SWD out. Wanna be a guide and can’t call? Put a SWD out. When birds stop coming in to late in the year they blame it on birds getting smarter. Wrong, it’s the fact most of the young birds are dead by the end of season. It’s sad to see where duck hunting has ended up. Amazing I guided 10 yrs and rarely used a SWD, never grew a beard, painted my face, decorated my gun with starting stickers, carried 10 calls, had a shock collar on my lab or shot 3.5” shells.

It's shocking to me that SWD's were ever legalized. You can't use recorded calls, or even lead, but a battery powered decoy is legal.

Lots of truth here Spec! I carry one duck call and one speck call and since all we hunt is specks I could do without the duck call. Shoot a 870 that i have had for 46 years. Trained 2 HR dogs with no shock collar and quit that game and judging when they started handing out passes for participating. We shoot 2 3/4" BB's and kill em over the decoys.
Before this SOW, I had 3 things that in mind that made duck hunting what it is today. !. SWD's were the devil reincarnated. 2. Canadian hunting of waterfowl was a very bad influence for several reasons. and 3. Every parcel of habitat is hunted from Canada to Venice, LA and birds can't rest anywhere unless the season is closed.

When I see face paint, 3 1/2' guns with ultra-tight chokes HeviShot, see 40-11 calls on a stiff lanyard, backpacks with MOJOs, mud motors where they aren't needed, wearing waders in the truck, dog in the box wearing e-collar, $500 parka when its sunny and 50 degrees...I think back to a 15 ft aluminum boat with a 25 Johnson and pushpole,, a pump gun, 18 Flambeau or G and H decoys (which you couldn't beat the paint off of), a jerk string, sitting on my waders with the dog sitting at the front in the bottom of the boat to level out the ride and how simple it was and still can be.

Toys can never replace Know How and Google Earth can never replace boat in the water or boots on the ground...

I can agree with everything that has been said but...…………...what the hell does an ecollar on a dog have to do with being a new duck hunter? I have a freaking field champion that is also a Grand Champion and that joker will have an ecollar on his neck anytime he hunts. That's about the most ignorant argument I've ever heard

Until someone throws/drops their gun down to hurry and get their hands on the remote to correct the dog, and the muzzle winds up in your ear or ribs or it splashes down in the bottom of the pit or you are staring down a round black hole, you probly can't appreciate it. Dogs barking on a hunt is for squirrel, deer, and hog hunting. I just don't need it or tolerate it.
It's hunting not trialing/hunt testing. It's just a personal view. There's no training like hunting though. Can't be duplicated...and it teaches good dogs bad habits...all trainers, PRO's especially know that. More than 25 years ago you seldom heard of a dog running straight white coat field trials that went hunting.
The last correction I witnessed was a nice dog with a speck in his mouth 100 yds out. dog stopped and started shaking his head...that's strange right...then starts a little dance...then drops goose and goes into a yelping tailspin. Much ado followed of course. dog did NOT bring in the bird. When asked why he corrected the dog he replied that's not the mark I sent him on....some laughing ensued and then he was told that's the only bird that fell!
Nothing like hunting with a trained retriever, we will all agree on that!

Sounds like you’ve hunted with some dummies. I maintain a standard whether in training or hunting. I expect all my dogs and the ones I train to operate the way they are trained. We don’t make concessions during a hunt. We also never get out of the pit to get a bird. If it falls it gets recovered because we have the dogs talented and trained to do it. Who said anything about barking? What does that have to do with a collar?

To your point about the dog being corrected with a bird in its mouth. The dummy running the dog should have his dog equipped to run a poison bird blind before he took it hunting. Takes a real dumb ass to blow a dog up that’s already gotten the bird they weren’t sent for. I train all the dogs that huntin my group. I also run the dogs, it just works a lot better that way for everyone. I can’t atand chaos on a duck hunt and a dog is the first thing that cause it if it’s untrained or being handled by an idiot.

Regardless saying ecollars mean the Hunter is a newbie is ridiculous. My dogs run field trials and they also hunt. I’d have a monster on my hands if they weren’t held in check while we hunt.

I agree a million percent with everything else. I’d pay good money for spinners to be outlawed. I hate those things with a passion

So you don't own or use one?

We do use them but I don’t like to. I never said they can’t be effective but I still want them outlawed. When I’m alone there’s is no motion anything but a jerk rig. I’m not the only person in my club so it is what it is.

The season of hate is getting close isn't it?

I do not use them either. Jerk string only. There is a generation of younger duck hunters that grew up no knowing you could go hunting without one...like Florida and Texas deer hunters with no corn! LOL

I call it the Phil Robertson effect.

I can assure you the craziness surrounding duck hunting has been around well before duck dynasty.
I quit going to AR in the late 90s because of all the boat ramp and timber hole fighting. I actually rarely went duck hunting in the early 2000s.
Crazy is an understatement and the shear amount of money involved is dumbfounding.

I tried to get a wealthy guy to buy Greenbriar when it was up for sale way back when for 1.6 million. He’d made a small fortune if had bought it back then. Not like he needs any more money.

There was time when Waterfowling was Gentleman's sport, then the competition began and it has been a race to the bottom since.

I could list numerous things but those that have been around already know.

I've talked with guys that have 20 plus in whole, rotating out so others can't get close. They'll pay hole sitters and then wear em out. I doubt many ducks stick around the area as this continually happens.

That’s all I needed to hear as a guide “ my dog is a grand national/ hunt trial champion “. My response is bring your waders cause I’m not getting out of the blind and I am dang sure not listening to a whistle every 2 seconds. My dog retrieved birds not plastic bumpers. Yes I had him on a whistle but only if I needed to direct him. I did learn he knew where the birds where better than me. I’m not saying your dog isn’t great. I’d rather someone talk about my wife than my dog. I am saying my dog had more than 16,000 retrieves in 13 seasons. That includes teal, bid duck and goose season. BTW never used an e-collar or threw rocks.:

What does this mean?

It took awhile but turkey hunting has gone the way of duck hunting.

Primos first video launched that craze.

if you take a close look at the Duck Dynasty thing, they never even duck hunt really. Just sitting around laughing at Si and his sweet tea out of a Tupperware cup from a bygone era. Phil had some good videos. Him and Warren Coco shooting humpback 16's with lead sitting on buckets amongst the decoys....shooting deer out of the duck blind...spitting in a shell hull...it's raining jacks boys (may be my all-time favorite).

DAMN guys, thread went to hell quick didn't it?

I have not been around any GREAT dogs, but have been around some good ones. Whining in the blind I cannot stand. Dog busting out of the blind as soon as someone stands up to shoot is another one.

One thing you have to remember, duck hunting will evolve and change like deer hunting. Some will stick with it, new ones will enter the sport, some will quit, and some will just start loosing the passion, like me. But, before I started loosing the passion, I passed it to my Son who is eat up with it! He is so obsessed, he has been to North Dakota last two years with his friends and loved it.

Wish I still had a hard on for it like he does....................................................

One of my favorites too. I enjoy those videos.

Don't let ignorance get in the way of a good story. I have no idea how many ducks any of my dogs have picked up hunting but I know I can only count a couple in the timber that didn't get recovered over their lifetimes.

And do me a favor, if your going to make fun of a dogs accomplishments try and get it right. Juice is an FC GRHRCH, the only one in the history of the world. I don't send semen all over the country because he's common. You sound like the one guide I hunted with in my life. After the first few volleys he realized my dog Rowdy was just a bit different than his dog with thousands of retrieves under his belt, so he said anyway. Ole fido didn't get sent anymore after the embarrassment wore off and he finally choked down his pride. The guy would have fainted had he hunted over Juice

Duck hunting has changed a lot just in the last few years. The public woods we hunt in Arkansas have turned into a circus even more so than they were already. The 4am rule has just made it worse if you ask me. We have a couple field leases just as a byproduct of the woods being so crowded. Id much rather be in the timber than a pit but there are times you can't even get around on the black thanks to the crowds. Years when there is low water its even worse--everyone is condensed. Let the river get out and it helps a lot.

As far as the dogs--no one should have to put up with a vocal or breaking dog. There is nothing worse than listening to noise--most people have no idea how to address it and therefore they let the dogs turn into monsters.

Folks used to pay guys to sit on their holes overnight to hold it--some still do I'm sure but your not supposed to be in the GTR's after 1 anymore. Not long ago you could stay in a hole overnight if you felt like it--that's what they are referencing.

Juice is right about breaking dogs. When dogs break they can create unsafe conditions really fast for themselves and the hunters. Dog breaks from the box in a pit when some teal come by low puts himself dead level with the shotgun blast. in other situations, he can run into shooters with guns coming up and the safeties being knocked off.

And in the end he will be the worst marking dog since he couldn't mark what he didnt see!

I rarely have to deal with a break but one of the young dogs is going to try it at some point every year. I absolutely crucify their ass when they do. It is not a pretty sight at all lol. Most of the guys I hunt with train with me a lot and come work their dogs so they get to see corrections and some of the things that take place training. Folks that aren’t prepared for a big correction will have eyes as big as saucers lol. They don’t break but once though.

Forgive me for the text last nite, should’ve put the phone down after #2 Tito’s and cranberry. I do agree about dogs breaking. Mine would break the first day or 2 of season and then would settle down and yes he was almost killed doing so. I do get upset about where the sport has ended up. I have a 7 yr old that is ate up with hunting. He’s already killed a pile of deer but really wants a dog and start duck hunting more. I hate telling him no but my goodness even a crappy blind over here is $5K.

I’ve never had a dog that hasn’t broken on a duck hunt. Juice has never broken in his life at any event but he fair caught a teal last year while I was taking a piss.

What part of Louisiana are you in?

This thread is great. Y'all keep going.

But please, encourage your kids to do it. We've gotta get the next generation in, whether you agree with their approach or not.

I agree. We get a bunch of kids out every year and you hook a few and some you don’t. A few youngsters had their first hunts last year on a morning we just happened to kill 60 big ducks by 10. Wind was wrong and they were shooting em in the ass but it was a good day. I got to run my dogs and let them get worn out, shot a couple ducks and watched a bunch of 10 year olds blow through a case of shells. It looked like a war had taken place when we cleaned up the shells!!

My Son was 5 when I took him the first time. His first name is my call name on here. He is now 20. Still has his Charles Daly 20 youth. It has killed hundreds of ducks. He can run a call at his age way better than I ever was even when I was hunting 30+ days a year. I have got some pics of him on youth hunts at a friend's place holding three straps of Red Heads! Man that was a good day for the youth on that hunt. He had several more close to it until he turned 16.



There is one thing I will have before I check out of this world, hopefully. I want one more good dog. Period.

Mine are 23 and 20 now and they have killed way more than their fair share of deer and hogs BUT they will leave with me and drive all night in time to get their feet wet. We've carted quite a few of their friends along over the years and like Juice said some of em get hooked, some of them don't. The ones that don't I've always believes had DNA issues! LOL

Damn whats dun happened in here?

Lafayette. That is funny you say that about the dog and a teal. One of the last years my dog hunted he was swimming toward a downed bird and a about 5 green wings came in and lit on the water in front of him. He caught a drake by the ass. I would have mounted the bird but he beat his wings so hard I swear he only had a few feathers left on his wings.

I’ve never hunted over that way any. I have a buddy that lives at shell beach if you know where that is. Closest city I can remember is Violet. They are outside Levi protection right on a canal. They have some private land near hopedale and we hunt the Biloxi marsh also. It’s been hit and miss and mostly miss the last few years. That Biloxi Marsh is pretty awesome though. Barely any hunting pressure compared to what we deal with in Arkansas but it’s one hell of a boat ride getting out there.

Juice you think there is no pressure now...shoulda been there late 80's early 90's. I guided 3 winters in the Biloxi marsh and you had to get near stump lagoon before you would even see a duck hunter. We kept our barge close to where Bayou Grande crosses SW branch of Bayou Biloxi right in the middle of the whole 80,000 acres. of course it was 3 duck days and we rarely shot small ducks, Gadwalls and mottled ducks. 10 or so mallards and pintails per season with 18 possible limits each morning. We saw more game wardens than hunters. a few fishermen

It was culture shock the first time I went out there. We found a lot of gray ducks near stump lagoon and smoked their ass for 6 days. We didn’t see another boat for 3 days and then we had some company. I kept waiting for the shot chasers to find us. I can only imagine 20 years ago. This was 6-7 years ago I hunted down there for the first time. Last few years birds just haven’t been there good.

First ever time hunting in La we were in Delacroix hunting a “lease”. 10 years ago maybe. Come to find out we were trespassing bigger than hell the whole time. They do it a little different down there lol

I’m slowly making my way through these videos on YouTube. Interesting stuff so far.

One thing that hasn't come ou yet and may not but i had a lengthy email conversation with one of the scientific members of that panel 3-4 year ago and he staed that it was obvious from band return data that goose wintering grounds are shifting roughly east and ducks to the west. the first 3-5 episodes almost have to muxh info to digest at once especially the stats on rice, crawfish ponds and habitat in LA

I’ve heard that for several years now. I wonder how much truth there is to it.
I can assure you the ducks I seen here in the 80s are no longer for whatever reason. I always blamed them traveling the Tombigbee instead of staying on The TN River.

I’m agreeing with a majority of what the discussion is saying. SWDs have never been that big deal with me. These days they scare more than they bring in from my personal experiences.

Where we hunt in MS the landowner said first specks of any numbers showed there around 2000. group of 20 stayed close to his house field...every year they increased until now its not unusual for there to be 25,000 in the area when they are at there peak in mid December. We have hunted only dry ground geese since 2010....about 1 duck hunt a year. In that time 16 banded birds, 3 of which were banded at Pacific flyway Banding locations or so I'm told. Near Deadhorse AK, west of Prudhoe Bay, AK, and Shageluk. We also killed a banded lesser Canadian (cackler) which was the first band return from MS in the last 30 years...maybe ever..not that there haven't been cacklers there before. We have killed 3 in that time. We stopped duck hunting due to the extreme lack of huntable numbers. There is very, very limited habitat due to the change in farming practices. Some duck leases that plant do have some good hunts but not much rice grown in MS anymore and beans are harvested in late August and September most years making waste grain a zero factor by winter.The snow geese which used to dominate the Katy Prairie area in TX pale in comparison to what they once were as do the Specklebellies and ducks in SW LA. Lots of duck hunting in Oklahoma that hasn't historically been there also.
If you do Instagram give the Osborne Lab a follow. If you look back to last year in their posts they had a sequence of total band return maps posted showing snapshots in 10 year sequences since the 70's I believe They are with the U of Ark at Monticello and turn out some unbelievable research concerning a lot of what the SOW is talking about. And as I am, they are all intrigued by the specklebelly goose and just did a huge banding in NE AR with telemetry units put on alot of the birds. 4 years ago i killed a banded bird in MS and 7 days later was really close to where they just banded them and killed another and the band numbers last digits were 22 and 25 and banded same day 6 years previous.
I think there is definitely some validity to the thought

That’s pretty compelling.

Byers place always seems to hold a large number of specks. I wonder if that still holds true. I’d seen where they’ve been doing a lot of telemetry work with the specks.

I’d heard Kansas and Oklahoma are hotspots these days for ducks.

The snows and specs started flying thru Alabama in the mid 2000s if I recall correctly


Here’s the question and my lowly perspective. Has hunting pressure changed migrations that much. I know AR doesn’t seem to plant as much winter wheat as they did in the late 80s and early 90s. It’s evident just riding around. Could hat also be a reason the geese have gone east?

Dry field ducks is the norm in the upper Midwest yet it’s a rarity down this way. I remember my first trips to AR and seeing ducks with geese in dry wheat fields. I can’t recall any recent years of seeing that. Also the geese would be right at the road side when it was bitter cold. Never could figure that out either.

I’m enjoying the series since I’ve been asking questions for sometime.

I killed 2 specks at Millers Ferry in I think 97. Bitter cold those geese sometimes use the road bed as a windblock and feed on the leftover dandelion greens too. in MS they do it with turn rows in the same fashion. Byers place probly holds more specks than ever especially now due to they flood up and have food, water, refuge...of course they spread out when the shooting starts. Another IG to follow is Paul Link who is on the series at plinkthebander.

Duck hunting sucks!!!

I came just for the dog comments! I’d invite anyone to see my boy WORK. Collar, no collar, however you like it.

that was a good one. I replayed the part when the doe got rolled running across the slough a million times lol

Speaking of dogs best I ever saw was when I hunted in Gueydan La once. The guide would point his foot toward where the duck went down and shine his foot with flashlight. That damn dog found every duck. Then he rolled in a skunk that night and proceeded to sleep in the bunk house with us lol

That’s the difference in a dog that is raised in a duck blind and spent every minute with the owner learning things everyday and a dog that was sent to a trainer(not that there is anything wrong with that) to retrieve. It’s nice to watch these field trial dogs running their tests for about 10 minutes and then it all looks the same. Their is a huge difference between a true hunting dog and a field trial dog. A hunting dog never has to be told a word and a field trial dog is lost without the handler. Oh and don’t tell me I’ve never been around them because I’ve seen some of the best field trial dogs money could buy and every one of them had to be sent to where the bird fell. It’s amazing how well a good trained trial dog listens but that’s not what I want in a hunting dog. I want my dogs to do it all on their on. This is why I train my dogs mostly at night to teach them to use their hearing. Also only use a dead duck and only throw it in y’all grass for them to learn to use their nose. As said earlier, nothing prettier to watch then a well trained field trial dog, but for me I don’t want a trial with a bunch of whistles and yelling and jumping up and down. I want a dog to just go get the duck and bring it to the blind fast so we can move on to the next group of birds.

You should get out more

You probably haven't ever hunted over a good dog would be my guess. A trained dog marks well and gets the birds they see fall on their own. If they don't see it fall its called a cold blind--you simply handle the dog to the bird. If the dog is well trained and any good its pretty damn simple and quick

Explain doing it on their own--so if your dog doesn't see a bird fall you just let him run and flop all over the field until he stumbles down wind of it?

I talked to my buddy that hunts out of shell beach. Went to the Biloxi marsh opening weekend and didn’t fire a shot. He said birds were non existent in the area he hunted.

Trust me I get out plenty.

In the 22 years that I was a duck hunting guide at one of the best hunting camps in SW Louisiana I’ve hunted with some great dogs. I’ve should have worded it differently. Most had the best training money could buy but as soon as the dog would leave the dog stand the handler would start the field trial test. The poor dogs couldn’t go 20ft without the whistle being blown the told OVER or BACK. It would just get old and they were all the same hence the reason why most guides don’t like hunting with someone else’s dog. There was a couple guys that had good dogs and they would just let the dog do what it was trained to do.
As far as what I mean about the dog doing it on their own is, a dog that marks the bird or birds either by sight or sound. Dog goes get birds and brings them back, puts it in my hand and goes back and gets other birds if multiple were killed. A dog that stops hunting and watches for new birds when the calling starts and knows to get the bird it was after before going after bird that was just shot. A dog that knows how to work the wind and use their nose to find birds. And do all this without me having to give the dog no attention other then to get bird from it and throw it in the pirogue. A dog that will get in said pirogue and will sit and not move until I get the dog across the pond for a lone cripple. A dog that knows that when the pirogue gets to the marsh it knows why we are there and it hits the marsh hunts that cripple duck up fast. Gets back in duck in mouth and holds it till we get back to the blind. A dog that does all this because it is what it loves and was bred to do. Not because someone forced it to learn how to do it. A dog that will do all that everyday of the season and just like the first day, it will be waiting on you in the boat on the last day of the season. A dog that when the work is over is there with you everyday just being a companion and doing what most dogs do. A dog that will play with the kids, ride the 4 wheeler and tractors or anything it can ride on. A dog that has such a great temperament that everyone that knows it loves it. A dog that just wants to be a family pet until the duck season starts again and gets so excited to be back in the marsh hunting. That’s what I can a good hunting dog. I’ve been bless more then I deserve with some great hunting dogs but I can tell you this dog I have now that we got from some great people on this site is just simply amazing. I don’t duck hunt any more and I do regret that because this dog is a machine and I have nothing to do with that other then letting her do what she does. This dog is a hunting machine whether it’s doves,hogs, deer or retrieving geese that I shot while they were flying over my place. Hell I think this dog taught me way more stuff then I taught it. Lol. I said all that to say I appreciate a highly trained dog if the dog can do what it is trained to do. I guess it’s the handlers of the dogs that I didn’t really want to hunt with. And just for the record the most I ever payed for any of my hunting dogs was $50.

Oh ya. Our waterfowl season opened this week end. I heard of a few decent hunts but talked to lots of very disappointed hunters who saw very few ducks and geese this weekend.

I can vouch that Marshmud gets out plenty. We guided at the same club and I even guided my last few years in his old blind. Very few people will ever experience duck hunting like we did. When you can kill limits of duck everyday (and most days specs too) of season out of the same blind it’s something special. Trust me as guides we heard about how much money this dog cost and how much training that dog has and 99.9% of time they sucked at hunting but it was a site to watch them retrieve bumpers. I’m not putting down anybody’s dog but it does take a special bond between guide and his dog to do what they have to do every day of season.

I tell you what... I've got a blind on Reelfoot so I have gotten to know a LOT of people. I hunt in Arkansas and MS all the time on private holes. People that have hunted with me on The Foot. I also hunt down near Marshmud some... I have a guy down that way I hunt with about 2 times a year. I also hunt at White Lake about every other year.

Duck Hunting in 2019 is nothing like it was 30 years ago. Nothing like it. We don't have the ducks because the 60 day seasons sealed our fate.... everyone North of us who didn't bother building and flooding wintering habitat today floods every thing they can flood. Farming is not what it use to be and some of these people make as much or more off their hunting leases. It is a big part of their income. There is so much habitat flooded north of the Mason Dixon line today you can't image the difference as compared to what was going on in the 80's and maybe through the late 90's. That's why we don't see the wintering duck numbers we use to see. I think they still get good counts on the refuges but those ducks don't leave the refuges like they use to. Hunting pressure has played a big role in that and is an secondary factor/issue here down South.

As for Dogs they are fine in a flooded field but once they start swimming I'm done with a dam dog. Forget it... you aren't hunting with me. I'm not going to stand around out there all morning listening to you yell at your dog swimming all through the decoys getting tangled up and blowing yer little whistle while I'm trying to duck hunt.

On The Foot we go get them in the boat. Most do not have a dog they are a 100% nuisance trying to swim around through 400 decoys.

Just going to put my $.02 in the mix. You don't need a dog in open water. A boat is quicker and you can shoot diving cripples. I don't hunt open water because I don't hunt without a dog.

Having very highly trained dog does not mean the dog will work for the owner. A field trial, hunt test dog will do a great job hunting for the individuals that take the time to learn how to handle the dog. Knocking the dog because the owner can't handle it is like knocking Benelli shotguns because the owner can't shoot.

Man don’t be knocking a Benelli!!!! LOL

The newest segment sheds some light on harvest locations and how the local numbers may vary while the overall harvest remain steady.
Thanks again for the heads up. Very informative talk.

I think most great “duck” dogs are essentially very good marking dogs to begin with. There is no difference in marking in a field trial vs a duck blind. Any great field dog will make a great duck dog when they realize what they are there for. No duck do will ever learn to run run a blind in a “duck blind” that’s learned in the field training. For people to say that blinds are not necessary in duck hunting situations is crazy. YES you need a whistle to send a dog on a blind retrieve but the whole purpose is to put them in the scent cone not on the duck. To think that a dog can pick up every duck from a blind and not handle is ridiculous.

You can handle a dog without blowing that irritating whistle every 30 seconds and screaming at the dog. None of me dogs ever new what a whistle was and never had a problem handling my dogs at the blind. I good dog that knows how to hunt doesn’t need at that. I never sent my dogs on long crippled birds by themselves. I always went with them. I always kept my dogs in sight or earshot. Especially if it was kinda warm. To many gators in the marsh. The biggest this is a dog needs to be able to watch everything that is going on so I always had them where they could see 360. It does help when a dog hunts the same blind everyday. That makes it a lot easier on a dog. Did they always get every bird every time. Of coarse not. If they didn’t get it, when the hunt would slow I would send them to get the missed birds. Most people that have highly trained dogs need to be highly trained to work the dog. I just gonna leave that right there.

If you have to go with your dog to pick up a bird then I rest my case. I dont give a rats ass if a bird falls out at 400 yards. That sucker will end up back in the blind in short order and my fat ass won’t do anything but stand up and make a few quick handles. The sole purpose of dog training is to recover game. It doesn’t matter if it’s hunting or trialing, the reason behind it is the same, to get the birds back as quick and efficient as possible. I hate losing birds that’s why I only bring well trained dogs to hunt over. We never lose birds at all in the rice fields and I can absolutely recover any bird with little effort as long as my dog can see me and hear the whistle. I’ve had occasions when a dog picked up a long sailing bird they never saw at such long distances that we shot into multiple volleys before they were able to get back.

You’ve never seen a well trained dog with a competent handler.....that’s an absolute damn fact.

A dog in open water is pointless. The dogs going to freeze to death trying to swim around all day and cost you birds. The point is efficiency, if the boat is a better way then that's what you should do. Dogs are used when its most efficient and to better the hunt.

As I said earlier that a well trained dog and a person that knows how to handle the dog is great to watch at a duck blind. Apparently you have never been in the marshes of SW Louisiana and must not have hunted much if you have never lost a bird. You will not see your dog much farther then 40-50yds in most areas here hence the reason I walk with my dog to get it to the area the bird fell. I would love to see you work that dog on a 400Yd crippled duck from the blind out there. Oh well I’m gonna let you have it with your world champion dog. I’ve realized that I could never ever reach your level of hunting or dog “handling”. Have a great season.

One of the best things about duck hunting is seeing a well-trained dog do its job. But the flip side of that coin is having to listen the incessant crowing and bragging about the damn dog from its owner. I don't give a chit what ribbons the dog has won or how many abbreviations you can put beside its name. Did it get the bird? Good dog.

A dog is like a hammer. Good for a specific set of circumstances. Like field hunting... that's where you want one and I enjoy not having to wade a muddy rice field going picking up the birds.

Hard to drive a deck screw with a hammer though.

Pond or pothole is probably ok..... but any kind of big Open Water = Leave dog at home.

Y’all want to talk about dogs. I have one for you. He’d pile up in a layout boat with his hunter. A big golden in fact. Doubt I’ll ever see that again.

Same guy had the first Golden to ever achieve numerous hunt test. I’m not sure if all of them but Lardy wanted Bailey on his truck but Dave didn’t cause he liked hunting Bailey too much.

I’ll dig for some pics of Tanner in the layout boat.

I know exactly what its like hunting in the marsh. I've never sent a dog on a bird past 150 yards out there and that was an open water swim. I lost a dog for 3 days around Hopedale a couple seasons ago. He got back to the grass with a gray duck in his mouth and after that I don't have a clue what happened. Knowing the dog he probably got after a nutria rat. That was shaping up to be a beatdown that morning--gray ducks were just cranking up around 9 and we had shot into back to back volleys of 25-30 and they were steady pouring in while we were looking for the dog. Ended up renting a heli out of New Orleans and found him in no time. I walked my fat ass all over that marsh looking and we burnt no telling how much gas running around by boat. That marsh is a miserable place when you have to walk it. Saw some big ass gators while we rode around those days too--I assumed he was in one of their bellies in all honesty

To clarify on the lost bird thing--I've never lost birds in the marsh when we were hunting one of my dogs. Lost plenty over some others we hunted--I haven't really hunted my dogs out there much at all though. Im not big on gators and seems live every trip ive made the temps have been in the 60's during the days so I usually dont hunt a dog. And I agree completely about the distance thing on the retrieves--my first ever hunt out there we had one sail and drop out around 100 yards in the grass to our right. We got the bird but I learned a good lesson about what not to do.
I lost sight of the dog once he got maybe 30 yards deep in the grass. That stuff is alot taller than it looks. I could see his head pop up every once in a while and was able to handle him down wind of the bird but those cripples bury up something fierce out there. Makes for some tough birds to dig out. Another thing out there is the wind--you can't appreciate how hard it can blow until you've seen it blowing good out there. The marsh is by far the toughest environment I've ever hunted when it comes to dog work. There is nothing easy about that place

I’ve found that most people that constantly beat their chest about a dog tend not to have a very good one. I haven’t ever found much to brag about on a dog while we’re hunting. They get the easiest retrieves they can hope for and don’t get challenged much at all compared to what they are put through in training. They are just doing their jobs is the way I look at it. I’m a lot more likely to get on their ass than the alternative.

Yep.

My policy is to only brag on dead dogs. May add retired dogs to the list this year.

Mark, I’m pretty sure I’ve heard you say that before lol.

I know this thread turned into a chit show, but I want to thank JayHook for putting this up. This series put on by Express is excellent. 20 episodes in all, I think. Focuses on Louisiana and Arkansas but they talk about the whole MS flyway.

First episode is here.

https://youtu.be/uW735AsYYGE

The conversation being had in the forum is also a pretty good indicator of the state of waterfowl.

With a lot less science though.