Throw and mow summer edition

Ok guys I miss the good parts of this thread so we are gonna start doing fall and summer threads. Leave the bulldoodoo for general this is for experiments of all kind right or wrong as long as we learn something from them. If it gets stupid like the other thread one of the mods will be asked to fix the issue. I learned a lot from this mindset old or new it works and that’s all that matters. So let’s get back to helping anyone who would like to know more about it and their experiences.

Sprayed fields last weekend and wanted to plant this weekend but dang it’s gotten dry on us. Anyone got anything going yet?

Yep
Got a whole bunch of corn (35 acres) planted last week of March/first of April. Put the final spray on it a week ago, fertilized half of it yesterday and will do the other half next weekend.
Going to plant some chufas next weekend as well

We're right on the front edge of a natural transition period when the winter stuff begins to brown down......

I spread some millet two days ago on some fields that are thin. Trying to add some biomass with it. Was hoping crimson clover would do the trick last fall but the deer demolished it.

Add a little hairy vetch into your fall mix this year....It'll help fill that void some. Inside of my fenced in yard I had crimson clover that got 15-18 inches deep...It never got over 1-2 inches on the outside of the fence

My crimson and white clover were both knee high when I sprayed last weekend.

That sounds like a good situation just to leave it as it is....Did you have a good bit of white clover?? Was the crimson turning brown??

So don’t take this as harsh criticism…..this is just meant to be constructive conversation. Its just my opinion by I think the best situation that most of us can shoot for from these plots in the summer is to grow a “weedy” patch of white clover…..transition to cereals in the fall….crimson and white in the spring….back to weedy white in the summer. If I had to guess I’m assuming you’re about to plant beans, sunflowers, etc……What will likely happen to them though?? For most folks on small plots those are just gonna be wiped out with nothing left behind….What about your summer biomass? What about the soil improvements from those plants?? None of that is ever seen in this situation. The money spent is just a simple snack for the deer and serves no other purpose. If attraction is what you’re shooting for then you’d be money and time ahead to just take a bad spreader full of corn out there with you every now and again and spread it off into your weedy white clover….The weedy white clover is gonna feed deer and produce biomass, diverse root growth, etc….Its gonna accomplish all of our goals for us.

Going back with I/C peas sorghum and maybe soybean and sunflower. At the lease I’m going with peas sorghum and brown top.

So again this is just for conversation sake….try not to let it make you defensive…..We’re just talking and learning……

How is that mix better than white clover and natural vegetation???......Actually instead of looking at it as simply "how is this is or that better?".....Instead look at ALL the pros and cons of each mix and compare those


If I had to start over again there’s some products out there that I believe would benefit a lot of guys who are in the first few years of this process. One would an inoculant to help bring back the microbial community faster. The other is a black granular product that simulates organic humus. I believe it basically increases your nutrient and water holding capacity. One of the hurdles many have in the beginning is growing enough biomass to get out of the hole. This would greatly help with that I believe. I think this would be money better spent in the beginning rather than trying to grow sunn hemp, sunflowers, peas, etc…. and just watch them get eaten to the ground in a short period of time

Just sprayed a field today that I’m going to t&m brown top millet into for a dove field. I usually disk my dove fields but I’ve gone all t&m on my deer fields so I’m going to give it a shot

I want to get me a good heavy duty finishing mower that discharges the cuttings neatly out the back.....That's way better suited for this than a bushhog....Probably gonna sell or trade my Hustler zero turn and get one soon.

Why don’t you buy an old cotton stalk shredder. They can be bought for next to nothing.

A finishing mower is gonna be a dual purpose piece of equipment for food plotting as well as maintaining the mowing on my property.

If your winter grains and clover are thick enough then you don't have to spray to transition to a crop of millet. Once the clover and grains go to seed and start browning down then their life cycle is finished and mowing will terminate them.

I’m actually dragging thatch more then mowing now. I can’t get a even coverage of bush hogged thatch.

What are these products you’re referring to?

I don't remember nthe specific names....I bet 257 knows the black granular product I'm talking about. As far as the microbial inncoulant.....there's likley multiple ones on the market now. We'll have to do some research

I've never used either one of these type products but I think they would probably be well worth someone trying. When I look back on the important milestones in the process....getting the microbial community going again and increasing my sand's holding capacity were two big ones. If these products can help you restore that quicker then it may cut years off of your initial rebuilding process.

It looks like there's several sources to get these type products from online but here is an example.....If you'll notice they also have inoculants as well. I don't know anything about this company....its just the first one I pulled up.....Need to do some research and check out others I'm sure. Maybe the feed and seed folks will begin to carry these type products in the future so that everything doesn't have to be ordered over the internet. Again these things will need to be experimented with but I think MOST folks would be a lot better off spending money on this than on peas and such in the summer....

https://vitallandscaping.com/product/baseline-granular-humus/

Humic products. Products I carry are hydra Hume and resurge. They raise CEC type properties of soil. Water holding and nutrient retention are the main take aways from using these.

On the idea of innoculants…..What I think most people will find is that when they first start out they’ll likely be heavily dominated by bacteria. As time goes on though and as higher C:N ratio plants begin to establish and restore carbon back to the soil….then they’ll be swing to a more balanced mix of bacteria and fungi. When this happens then you’ll likely notice new plant species beginning to emerge in the summer time….lots more native broadleafs….I don’t think I saw this happen for at least 5 years though….maybe more. If the cost is reasonable I’d go back and inoculate my soil with the missing microbes early on instead of waiting for them to come back naturally. Now it may be that you have to do this a couple of times….I’m not sure but the microbes need a home and if soil conditions aren’t right for them then it may be a short term gain that has to be repeated. This is where experimenting will have to come into play.

We call it bugs in a jug. Some are legit. Some aren’t. But there’s merit and science to support the legit products.

That's pretty much what I ended up doing last year. I experimented with just broadcasting which worked fine in my conditions but I couldn't see the deer because the standing veg was too thick. I ended up just using my front end loader in reverse and pressing it down.....One of these little roller crimpers suited for a 4 wheeler or small tractor would be the bee's knees for just pressing a crop down like you're talking about. The only problem with dragging is that stuff will pop back up on you. The roller/crimper puts a crimp into the stalk and terminates it.....put its down for good. They'll be new things like this that will emerge eventually that'll help this method out. It'll always be possible to do it with as little as you choose though as long as you have the knowledge of the principles.

That lil thing heavy enough to do much good?

The guy who made it said that filled with water its 360 lbs......there's possibilities for adding more weight if needed too

I plan to make a roller out of 10” drain pipe filled with concrete for that.

If you know how to weld I bet it wouldn't be hard to make one of those crimpers like this guy did. Its those pieces of flat steel that really do the trick. Its doing more than just laying the vegetation down. Its crimping the stalks of the plants and terminating them as well. Either way will get you by...the crimper is kinda the Cadillac way

Yeah that’s a big negative on the welding

Here's a short little video showing the big boy version being used...…

We’ve tried em. Didn’t really work as advertised. Now we just plant into it standing green and run sprayer behind planter killing the green cover

That's the first I've heard of someone not liking them. They seem to be one of the more coveted pieces of equipment amongst folks moving to these type planting.

Looks like a mini drum chopper...drum choppers are usually worthless

Keep in mind that we're talking about food plotting and not cleaning up a clear cut or something. All.most folks are gonna need it to do is efficiently lay down the standing vegetation. Heck many of us are doing it with pallets and such now. The roller crimper would just be a little more neat and efficient way of doing it versus a pallet. It would also offer some ability to terminate standing veg without spraying. That's what was demonstrated in the video

I’ve already mentioned this but “timing” is a big variable in all of this that you can use to your advantage. With farming they’re constrained by the cash crop they’re growing and when they want to harvest it, etc….With food plotting you don’t really have to worry about that. The easiest thing to do is to time your transitions with nature and the natural transitions. Instead of planting at the end of April and having to spray to terminate a crop, etc…..wait another few weeks and let the winter grains and such terminate themselves naturally. Same thing in the fall….instead of rushing in to plant in early to mid Sept….wait another few weeks and plant with the natural transition that occurs as the summer veg seeds out and naturally begins to terminate. Of course this is gonna vary a little depending on your location

Wouldnt a disk harrow very shallow do the same thing?

Somewhat yes…..I tried it one year and it still tilled my sand up more than I wanted it to. Sand is very fragile. I don’t know that a disk is gonna give you the same crimping action on the plant stems either. For sure don’t throw your disks in the pond and make reefs out of them though….they’re a tool like anything else and may be used for other purposes.

They used something very similar in the old days to break up corn stalks. Probably thousands of them sitting out in the woods or been taken to the scrapyard

Planted an acre plot with i&c cowpeas/buckwheat/sunn hemp on a field near camp that I can run sprinklers on. Been watering since Monday. I sprayed, waited 10 days and dragged a screen panel over the thatch. Layed it down pretty as you please. Looks really good. Went from raining every day to drought. Showing rain for Monday, so will plant other plots Sunday.

I'm going with nature's own 30 way blend again this year.....Right now I'm smooth covered up with blackberries around my place.....Most I've ever seen.....We picked some of the first ripe ones yesterday and made a little pot of blackberry preserves.....It didn't last long.... Had to just eat it on some whop biscuits but it was still come count.

Soil temps are still pretty cool.....I was just reading that for millet you want soil temps to be 65 degrees or better. Soil temp map is showing us still being in the 50's. It's getting hot though so maybe it'll warm on up pretty quick

No way soil temps are in the 50’s in AL anywhere. We’re planting heavy cover no till ground and it’s 67 at 10 Am. That’s when you take soil temp. Worked up ground in low 70’s.

Maybe it was just for this one particular day I happened to look at the soil temp map...….

http://dtninfo.alfafarmers.org/index.cfm?show=1&mapID=20

Fake farmers news network. They can’t beat boots on the ground. Plant away

I thought that was suppose to be pretty accurate......Soil temps are measured at like 7 or 8 o'clock aren't they?

No sir. We take em at 10 Am at 2” depth.

That's the standard that everyone goes by???? I may just be remembering it wrong....it been awhile since I checked any soil temps but I thought I remembered it being earlier than that.

frak man whatever. Go argue with a wall.

I'm just simply asking a question....Isn't there a standard that everyone goes by? There would have to be....You can't just measure it at any given time of the day or at any given depth.

I edited my original reply. Yes. In farming there’s a standard. It’s 10 am at 2” depth. We don’t plant seed 4” deep. You can argue whatever. You think you know the answer to it all. You got another throw an mow thread you’re hoping goes 144 fraking pages again. You’re shucks is old.

How would y’all mix these I/C peas, sorghum and sun hemp? I have 7 total fields between 1/2 and 1/4 acre each. The plan is for biomass and browse so don’t want to plant too thick or too thin. What do y’all suggest on pounds per acre of each?

I planted 50lbs peas/10lb each of sunn hemp and buckwheat per acre. Not sure about the sorghum.

If I were growing those plants on that size plot and wanted to accomplish the goals you listed.....I'd put up an e-fence around them until just prior to fall planting....That's when I'd take the fence off and let it start concentrating the deer on it.....I'd then broadcast my fall cereal grains mix into into it as the deer were bringing down the summer crop

If I can get the peas over waist high they will do ok with my browsing pressure. I plan to use the plot saver system this year to help get to that point

Harold, that's exactly what I do, except I dont need a fence. They dont annihilate the peas and buckwheat until august. First time to plant sunn hemp on this property, so we shall see.

I spread seed at the house right before dark yesterday and drug it this morning. Got a nice slow rain on it after spreading and a good bit before so hopefully we will have lift off soon. Couldn’t get any sun hemp yesterday so went with I/C peas and sorghum 50#\25# a acre. I’ll probably add something else if I can find hemp or buck wheat.

I have sprouts 2 inches high coming up thru the thatch. Put out my trophy rocks yesterday. They're suppose to do some clear cutting on the property, too.

I believe I’ll have some good growth by next weekend with all this rain. I’ve got to fertilize now but it looks like the rain will stop by the weekend so next chance I guess.

Our co op in Andalusia had buckwheat and sunn hemp.

Thank God for all the rain this week. Got about 6 acres covered last Saturday in either PeaPatch or in pea, milo, and sunflower blend. They got good start if nothing else

I did a T&M summer plot with WMS pea patch at end of April. Rained like hell the next day. thought it was going to be perfect. Didn't rain but maybe a trace for about two weeks. Sprinkled again a week later, and then finally deluge this weekend. It's not looking good. Only time I've had much luck with this method for warm season plots is when it rained a bunch.

Peas seem to be one of the seeds folks usually have success with.....Ate the deer browsimg it already? Do you think they could be already having an impact? Something everyone may want to think about if you're planting in April is double checking your soil temps.....Soil covered over with organic matter will take a little longer to warm up.

I’m very particular about my summer planting timing. If we don’t have some moisture and a good bit of rain in the forecast I won’t plant. I planted Friday and Saturday so should be in great shape as long as we don’t go dry for a month. I will wait for the next good rain before fertilizer though.

I always plant with a significant rain event in the next day or two. I'm talking a couple day rain event. That's not hard to come by this time of year. All of mine are up 3-4 inches. Btw, I never plant until May.

Mine are jumping now. I put out milorganite to keep the deer off them but they should look great in 7-10 days. I would like a decent rain next week though just to help them.

Two weeks in and I’m happy so far except one field. The first pic I figured the peas would do better in the pines but in the open field it is full of peas. Not really sure what’s the reason on that.
My best field actually laid down on me before I had enough rain to plant so I’m really thin where I didn’t get good soil contact. There’s way too much rye grass in that field that I’ve got to take care of next year earlier. I can’t wait to see what the fields at the lease look like cause they were jamming last weekend.
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Pines are highly acidic, plus it'll shade the peas.

I figured I would give a better explanation. Peas are a legume. Like all legumes, they like soil with a ph of 6.5 to 7 for optimum growth. If I had to guess the soil ph in those pines is probably in the low 5's. That along with shade and competition for moisture is why the field is doing better.

I’ve been liming the field periodically so that shouldn’t be the issue. The ones at the lease are in way crappier soil and doing great.

Must be the shade then.

Well they look great for only the second throw and mow planting.

Let me throw this out there for y’all to mill over as you watch your plots do what they do this summer……One of the most important aspects of this whole process and probably the one that is the most underappreciated or misunderstood….is the importance of producing biomass at the end of each growing cycle. Simply “not tilling” doesn’t in and of itself improve your soil. You can “not till” for the next 10 years but if you end your growing cycles each time without recycling significant yields of biomass back to the soil….then you’ll barely be any better off than you were when you started. It’s the plant matter that gets added back to the soil that builds your soil and your fertility….If there isn’t any left over at the end of summer or if you’re not allowing your cereal grains to mature and make a crop of biomass…..then very little is going to change…..”Not tilling” is simply helps conserve the soil that you’re building. Just keep that in mind when you plant peas and sunflowers and this and that….That’s all good and fun but if you don’t end up with any left over then you’ve lost the chance to improve the soil with that cycle….You’ve accomplished nothing or very little from that standpoint…..and in exchange for what??? What real changes did you make with the ½ acre of peas??? More than likely none from that standpoint either…..Sure it was fun….but at what cost??

Its more important to grow a bunch of something rather than a little of nothing…..Even if you do still feel like you have to call them “weeds”…….The taller stuff is about 3-4 acres of second year growth….I haven’t bushhogged it down in the last couple years…..I’ll reset it after this season…..The shorter area is about an acre that is being set back annually. Its clover in the winter and grass, broadleaf mix in the summer…..The back of the field also has a couple acres of annual plot. I’m trying something BSK mentioned one time about having multiple stages of early successional growth…..allowing some to grow for 2 maybe even 3 seasons before doing anything to it….while having other areas set back annually…..

Just a side note….someone may notice and say….damn that’s a lot of grass in the short area….keep in mind though that its pure clover during the winter and spring….The heavier summer grass crop balances the carbon/nitrogen cycle. Its starting to get a good amount of a broadleaf component coming in now though so its still a mix of deer food/soil food. The deer are hammering any and everything this summer and wiping out a lot of stuff I normally see in abundance.

I put out a mix of sunn hemp, buckwheat , black oil sunflower and soy beans on 2.5 acres and mowed it in today. Hopefully with the rain we are having it will do something. What we broadcast into and mowed looks like the left hand side of CNC's picture.

Cereal rye seems to be making a excellent thatch producer to go along with the diakons.

One of these days I'm gonna invest in some E-fencing. I'm gonna grow a jungle of beans, suflowers, , etc during the latter part of summer that you could get lost in. Then I'm gonna take the fence down about 2 weeks before bow season opens and let the deer hammer it while I layer on my cereal grains letting the deer mob graze and process the vegetation for me. You could probably do really well just fencing off some native vegetation allowing ice cream species to establish that may not have otherwise.....Probably be good to do just to promote and establish that diversity that the deer may wipe out without protection. I may broadcast some millet in my lower field just get some more growth going because they're wiping it clean of broadleaf's this year

These are from last weekend at the lease. I put brown top in all my thin areas to thicken them up which I expect to really have taken off [/[url=https://postimg.cc/kB1xqzvq]