Percentage of mature bucks that score 140" or more.

Where you hunt or have hunted in Alabama what percentage of mature bucks not all bucks killed, let's just say those killed that are 4 1/2 or older score 140" or better.

For me I would say for where I hunt no more than one out of every ten bucks that is 4 1/2 or older that are killed will be 140" or better, so at best 10%

I don't think it's near that many where I hunt. I'd say 1 out of 100 (???).

I have no idea, and really couldn't give an educated guess. Probably nowhere near that where i hunt.

I would have to guess and just a guess 40-60% 4 1/2 year olds that make 140. Average buck I see killed tho is only 2-3 1/2 years old which sucks.

Mike i would say even less than that 5% i would say is stretching it .

If that is anywhere close. I am deffintly hunting the wrong part of the state.

You may be right I am just going off memory of last 4-5 years of bucks that have been killed. Sometimes my memory ain't so good. But I would almost guarantee in this part of state it is not more than 10%.

I like the 10% number

Probably 1%

Less than 5% where I hunt.

1% maybe.

In Baldwin Co it would be a small fraction of a %

Close to 0%

depending on the county I mean there are tons of 140 class bucks killed in Montgomery, Bulloch, Lowndes, pike, and Macon, butler county every year that no one ever hears about. I know of 4 or 5 killed just in Montgomery county this year that haven't shown up on here. all I'm saying is there are more than you think, couldn't even begin to give a %

Most seem to be in the 140's+ but it's because of all the ag land

I was talking about strictly where you hunt. Where you know how many bucks were killed how many of those were mature and how many of them scored over 140. I know there are a lot of 140's killed in every county but unless You know how many were killed in that county and how many were mature deer it don't give you any ideal of what % of bucks actually have the potential to reach 140.

Maybe some of the guys that work the WMA hunts can tell us how many 4 1/2 and older bucks get checked in and how many of them score over 140.

In Dallas Cty were I hunt I'd say less than 1%. We have several old paw paws running around that will not even come close to 140". I've seen a couple that might make 140 but they were all over 4.5. I've had to change my way of hunting on this property because if I held out for 140 or better I would pass up a lot of old deer and rarely pull the trigger. This is on AG land along the AL River. We either have way to many deer or lack the right minerals in the dirt. We have the age structure and then some so that's not the issue.

I would say around 5%.

I'd say about 25%.

0% here.

Some of you saying "most" or "40-60%" need a reality check. That is NOT the case anywhere in AL. Heck, it's not even the case in most of the Midwest. Having a bunch of 140+ deer killed in a particular area does not give anyone a glimpse of the actual average score, or percentage of score breakdowns. I can guarantee that there are more mature bucks under 140, than over. Way more. You may be selecting the 140+ bucks to kill, but you're leaving a lot of mature bucks in the population.

I'd say in our area it's probably 5%, maybe less than that. And we are in a good area with good genetics.

gotcha, in that case none of the bucks I have on camera that are 4-6 years of age would hit 140

I'd say you don't know what kind of deer I have where I hunt, cause you ain't ever been there and never will. But you're welcome to assume all you want. I don't care what percent I have, all I know is I got quite a few 3 y/o bucks that are close to 140 or right at it, and they get a pass, so I'd say that only raises the %

I've seen you post on here. You're young, and still have a lot to learn about deer. You have a great place to hunt, but that doesn't mean you know as much as you think. I don't mean that ugly, just being honest.

Considering I have access to data from the worst to best places to hunt in the entire state, and other states as well, I can confidently say that the majority of your deer walking around on the hoof will not hit 140". I am not making my decision on assumptions.

Seems like I read a report from the King Ranch that stated the average score for 5.5 year old bucks was around 115". I bet our Bama bucks aren't far from that. CD.

You are correct CD. I thought I remember in the article it was closer to 120', but either way 115-120" is the number they came up with on A LOT of deer.

This thread is all one needs to adequately determine that a whole bunch of people don't have a CLUE how to age a deer. The number of people that assume a deer is 3.5 years old because he doesn't weigh 210# and only has 110" of antler is mind boggling to me.

Please keep in mind this is on the Faith Ranch and not in AL. This ranch is amazing! A friend of mine is the biologist out there and they do some great research with multiple schools. This shows how the Bell Curve is represented in the buck population.

Research Paper

Yep. There are more 140" deer in the Midwest because there are more that make it to maturity. They still aren't the norm even though many southern hunters think they are behind every tree up there. I used to believe Jackson County was full of them until I realized I was hunting as fine a property as there was and putting in massive hours just to kill one 140" deer every other year. The majority of the 4.5 year old deer I killed were in the 130s and I'm sure I passed on quite a few mature deer that didn't have the kind of antlers I wanted. A 140" deer is a trophy any where in the world. More common some places but not the norm anywhere.

I love this....

The predominance of average individuals is a powerful force in nature. Nature tends to punish extreme outliers. With respect to deer, fighting the bell curve—and Nature’s continual efforts to reward the averages—is very difficult to do. Yet deer managers want more trophies, and they particularly want to produce extremely large-antlered whitetails—or outliers. But the quest for outliers runs up against a powerful tenet in nature: “Nature abhors outliers as much as she does a vacuum.”

On the private 5000+ acres I used to hunt in Jackson County, I don't remember any 8 point that broke into the 140s. I'm pretty sure it took a mainframe 10 to break into the 140s....what is the percentage of the occurrence of main frame 5x5s? In 8 years, I believe there were 4 deer killed that were 150s.

The vast overwhelming majority of 4.5 year old Alabama bucks will not reach 140. Especially if they aren't at least 10 points. This is especially true outside of the good soil regions.

Well, here's some stone cold rock solid data. I don't know the exact number of 4 plus bucks I've killed, but I know the top number in the equation of exceeding 140 is zero. Easy math.

Maybe one out of 1,000 maybe. In other words not even once in a lifetime for most people do they even remotely have a chance at a buck like that in Mobile county maybe in a few areas in Baldwin county and that is the only reason I did not say never.

My dad killed one in Washington county back in the 70's when there was agriculture growing everywhere so they at least had one once upon a time there lol

We have killed 300 + bucks on our lease in the 25 years and only 1 was over 140. 147 inch 10 point.

I reckon you had Satellites watching my property to make sure My deer weren't breaking what some study said about some deer in another state. Really you have to argue with anyone that gives there $.02. I knew my age structure I knew my Buck to doe ratio, Fawn ratio, And weights.

Just out of curiosity and for edification, what soil type and soil region do you have?

What kind of habitat?

And what percentage of those 300 bucks were legit 4.5 year olds?

Thanks.

I'm not trying to argue, only provide FACTS. Since facts are such a problem around here y'all can have this place. I'm out, the way everybody else that has tried to educate folks has gone. I spend more time on here defending data than having fun. If you want to think you had a place in AL with higher average antler scores than anywhere else in the country then go ahead. That's fine. Everybody on here can believe what they want to now, because I won't be here to argue about it.

One in a thousand

Dang Matt first Trent and now you with 5% that cuts my chances of killing a 140 in half. I may as well just start killing spikes they are a lot easier to kill and I hear they eat pretty good to.

Please don't leave...there are plenty of people on here that appreciate your knowledge and experience and research...some people just think they are arguing with their uncle Joe instead of someone that does it for a living.

If anyone on here produces multiple 140 class 4 year olds annually you are doing something nobody else is. I mean at least 30% of your 4 year olds making 140. I'll go further and say prove it...

Give info on your herd dynamics and then number of 140's. If you can't provide herd dynamics your boat is already sunk.

I hunt in Henry County. In 15 years of running trail cameras, I have caught one buck that went over 140. I was fortunate enough to take him last year. I've seen three during that time over 120. A very rare animal that makes it to 140 in Henry County.

Were you saying 40-60% killed, or average of ALL mature bucks seen while hunting and camera surveys? I would believe 40% killed for you and bamabucks14, but of ALL the mature deer on the property that number would be hard to believe.

Zero. A 120" deer is a good deer for the areas I hunt.

I agree with foldemup

40% of mature deer SOME folks (squeaky ) are killing might be 140 but that is a far cry from the topic we are discussing.

That number is still high IMO

I'd say anywhere from 1-5% depending on .......location, location, location. I think if you're getting up around 10% that's truly a special place and would be as good as can be had in the Heart o' Dixie.

What about YOUR location!

I agree and concur, foldemup.

At my place, 110 for 4.5+, maybe 110

Probably less than 1%

I've hunted Mobile County for the past 25 years, as well as some stints in Lowndes, Baldwin, and Washington.

I have laid my eyes upon 2, in the flesh.

O% in my neck of the woods

.5%, the other .5% is on the neighbors property in daylight.

I do not know Matt or anyone that does for that matter. Google says he has a degree in wildlife biology. That means he has the book sense. Google also says he has been a biologist at a WMA since 2011. That means he has, at a minimum, 3 years field experience.

I'll take his word on what the science and data says about the herd.

If I was Matt I would have given up on you 'tards a long time ago and gone silent the way of BSK and many of the other knowledgeable posters.

Most have zero desire to engage in the sophomoric posts in this "serious" deer talk forum.

Pearls to swine comes to mind.

It wouldn't be hard to believe, it would be impossible unless it was a enclosure full of breeder bucks. You can't convince some people that they don't have the one place in the world where genetics defies years of
scientific data.

Matt, I wouldn't worry too much about the detractors. There will always be those that will argue even when faced with superior logic.

I know him enough to also know he has a lifetime of "woods" experience, he's a very accomplished deer hunter and student of the animal.

And virtually everyone posting in this thread agrees with Matt that there are only a very small percentage of fully mature 4.5 year old bucks that make it to 140 in our State.

Keep talking and you'll have a lot less of them.

X2
Matt don't let them get you....

We get a buck or two a year on camera that may break 140, but they are almost 100% nocturnal. I'm guessing less than 1%.

He can barely get in the truck now

I agree with what most everyone on here is stating. I was fortunate to grow up hunting some of the most fertile dirt in the SE up and down the Miss River. Giles Island, Rifle Point, Glasscock Island, all before they became commercial operations. It was strictly from luck of the draw of the area I was born and raised in. We have also been fortunate enough to have a small tract of private ground in the Miss Delta for the past 4 seasons. In 25+ years of hunting, and running trail cams for the past decade or so, I'd say an average of 5% or less is pretty accurate. On highly managed properties in these areas, and with management practices becoming more widespread, that number MIGHT increase up to 15-20%. And that is on ELITE properties inside the levee. Our little place is surrounded by good neighbors and decent ag in close proximity, and I would venture that in 4 years and close to 100 different bucks, we might have 3-5% at 140 and ZERO over 150. These outlying numbers being given in this thread are not even believable. I'm with NH, prove it if you think your numbers are 25% or higher.

I'm confused? Let's say you got 500 acres and have a pic of a 140 in deer and claim 1 % in this survey. Are you not then saying that you have 99 bucks that are 4 1/2 but won't score 140? It's not the 140 that's so rare it's the 4 1/2 yr old bucks that are. I hope that makes sense.

Good point. I would like to know the percentage of bucks killed that are 4 1/2 or more in age.

That is a good point. We have a good percentage of deer on cam that are 4+. Still would venture to say max of 10% would make the 140 grade.

I was thinking of an area , whatever the size, that had 100 4 yo. Of that 100 what % are 140. Both 4Yo and 140" is rare in many areas. You guessed 25%, there very well may be small pockets that run that high. Those 40%+ property guesses, I would like to see some data also. All this is just guess work, makes for conversation.

I think I just confused myself.

I've been running deer cameras on the area we hunt in Morgan county for around 15+ years and have only had 2 deer that might make the 140 mark.

I'm calling BS on your story unless you have some kind of fancy high fence, million dollar a deer population. If so, this thread don't even apply to you so STFU!!

Matt some things and some people on here you can't pay much attention to. If all the good folks let all the crazy folks run them off what are we gonna be left with. And remember you can't fix stupid so if you have to you can always use the ignore button.

I don't know about anywhere but where I hunt. Where I hunt the majority of bucks that are killed are 4.5 or older not all some mistakes are made. We also don't kill very many bucks.

Y'all want to see a picture of a real Alabama 4 year old buck that has had well limed and fertilized summer and winter plots, and a pristine alfalfa buffet to eat for the last 3 years of his life? Free choice, calcium and phosphate boosted minerals to eat at will. A buck from an area with a low deer population, an area well below the carrying capacity of the land?

Yep!

We have killed 5 bucks 4.5 or older in the last 5 years and only 1 scored over 140 and he was the only 8pt but 7.5 years old. Using my trail cam pictures I have 6 bucks that I know are over 4.5 and only 1 will be over 140. The bucks where I hunt are 125-135 at 4.5 and only reach 140 around 6.5 years. I'm sure there are bucks that hit 140 at 4.5 but it would be the exception to the rule.

When I can get photobucket to cooperate I will post it up. I'm guessing he's pushing 200 lbs.

Boom. I just hope this doesn't drive up the lease prices around here. If you look closely, you can see what I think are fat rolls down the deer sides.

On my place in Nectar In 8 years I think we have shot 2 bucks one was my first bow kill that I shot for a doe and the other was a jacked up 3 year old my step dad shot for meat. We have pics of 4.5 plus deer but none of them will get 140. One might get 135 but that is pushing it. Most are about 120...

Fur, you do know THAT buck is NOT a four year old deer????

How old is he? I am just going by how he compares in size to younger deer. He dwarfs the 1 and 2 years olds. He's also much bigger than one I had pegged as 3.

Given the face angle, shoulder/neck junction, short looking legs...I'd put that deer at least seven years old. Face angle is a dead give away.....

Fur I've got one to. I'm not sure how old he is but I think he is past 4

agree

That deer is a freaking war horse. Look at the dang chest, legs and head. He's OLD...

I rarely say an age after 5.5 but I assure he is older than 5.5.

I see what you're talking about with the face angle now. His nose looks short. He'll probably never show his face in the day time but I've got a 12 year old son that would fall flat over if he could put a bullet in him.

You think a buck that's past his prime like this one could would change his territory after being beat down by a younger buck? I know antlers can change from year to year but I don't have a picture of a mature buck from last year that I can assign to this one, and this one is around every day.

That was lat year and the only pic i got of him. I have one picture of him again this year. I also had another old buck show up and have never seen him before. Here is what i think is that deer and another that looks to be much over 4 and neither touch 140.

I age like this. One's, two's, three's and 4+. I'm not good after that. I think the one in your picture is 17.

see how the angle increases from butt to head. A four year old will be dang near even front to back, as they get older they get heavier in the front, angle increases. This deer is well over five, I'd say six or seven.

here's a classic five/six year old, heavier to front but legs still look normal length.

That is one beautiful picture of a magnificent animal.

So how old do y'all thing this guy is, and what would he score?

how ya doing Bud??

nice buck, hard to age from that angle. 170-180??

post a pic of that big buck you killed several years ago.....

The picture of me and the buck in my avatar IS this same deer, shot two days after the trail cam picture. He only scored 167 3/8 P&Y and was aged at 4 years old.

I hope Matt comes back. Don’t let folks get to you. This site needs guys like you on here continuing to spread the truth and science of deer management. Just look at the folks that disagree with you as an opportunity that gives you a podium to preach that message. A lot more folks hear you other than just the knucklehead that’s calling you a moron or an idiot. Those other folks are the ones you’re really teaching….not the knucklehead. Keep posting dude and just let that ignorant stuff roll off your shoulders.

I think people need to stop being pansies when someone disagrees with them. And stop being pansies about "protecting" the pansies.

I ain't a pansy. Just got better things to do with my time.

I listen to enough grumbling from people in person.

It's all good.

Groovy!

.........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4d8PHDG4yE

Popcorn don't apply hombre.

Just joking around. Lighten up pansy.....

Glad you didn't tap out I enjoy your insight. Question: How many 4 1/2 yr old bucks have you checked in since you have been there at Black Warrior?

ok.

yeah Matt, ya pansy....LOL

Fifty three bucks over age 2. Sixteen of those have been 4-6 years old. Two of those 16 have scored 140 or higher. The majority of those 4-6 year olds have fallen into the 115-125" category.

That is a relatively average year. Last season I had several 150-170" deer brought in. This year's data and last year's are way different. Last year was a well above average year though.

I'll show you a pansy old man.

What do you think was the reason, if there is one, for last year's abnormalities? Do these type things go in cycles?

It seems to cycle. I'll say this though, there are several 150-180" deer walking around as I type this. They just haven't been dropped yet. If they don't real soon, they'll see next year if they survive the summer, poachers, and vehicles. We had all the variables this year to grow big deer(climate and weather wise, as well as low harvest last year), and they are here. They just haven't been killed yet. I have seen several grown uns killed on USFS land off the WMA. None of them have been the deer I know exists on the WMA though.

I knew you hadn't been at the WMA long enough to really trend it out. I didn't know what kind of records that the last guy left you. It'll be interesting to see how it trends while you're there. I hoping that one day there'll be so many 150" deer on the WMA that even I can kill one.

So on the on an average year 13 percent of bucks over 4 scored better than 140? A better than average year around 20.

yep, that coulda been a goodern 3 years ago!!

That's bucks killed and reported, which is way different than what the OP was asking. If you looked at trailcam pics by age class and averaged scores it wouldn't be 13% over 140" in most places.

Matt good to see you stuck around pal. I enjoy reading the information you share and your personal insight on big Bama bucks.

I'm gonna unscientifically guess a mid to low single digit on average.?.?

Deer hunter's in the south here is a good article I read today. Will be in 3 different posts.
Genetics
First, it is the doe, (not the buck) that contributes more of the genetic characteristics to the offspring regarding antlers characteristics. Until we get some way of looking at a doe, and can tell what kind of bucks she produces, genetic management will always be somewhat lame.

Second it is hard for most people to identify good genetics because the size of a deer's rack is affected greatly by the deer's age. If you have ever shot a spike that was chasing a doe in the hopes of keeping it from breeding, then you probably don't understand completely how to manage your deer. I am not saying you shouldn't have shot that deer, just that it was probably shot for the wrong reason.

Let me explain about Southern deer. Where I hunt in Alabama, the rut occurs very late in the year, usually in early January; therefore, the fawns are born very late. This means that that 8 point 1 1/2-year-old deer up north had 2 or more months extra to grow that set of antlers than the same 1 1/2-year-old deer in the South. So our 1 1/2-year-old deer will never be able to compete with the 1 1/2-year-old deer from up north. Now, genetically that spike deer could have been superior genetically to the eight point in Minnesota. You see, an individual buck's antlers are affected much more by age and nutrition than by genetics.

I don't think there are any 2 1/2-year-old Boone and Crockett bucks registered. If there are then it is at least very rare. As the deer age, the difference in antler size due to this buck being born early get less and less significant. It is not possible to make an educated guess about the genetic makeup of a buck until it is at least 2 1/2-years-old. Ever wonder why older deer have larger antlers than young deer? When a deer is young it is growing. It's body weight is increasing and this requires nutrients. Only the left over nutrients go to the antlers. So the younger and therefore faster growing deer need more of those nutrients for growing bones and hair. It is only after the deer's body growth slows that there are enough nutrients left over for a large rack. I have personally only seen one buck that had spike antlers that was older than 1 1/2-years-old. So obviously almost all of those spikes have the potential to be more than just spikes.

If you are still not convinced that you can't improve the genetics of the deer that are sired each year then maybe this will. Ever since modern deer hunting arose we have been selecting the best for death and the worst for procreation. If two bucks walk out, much more often then not the large racked buck is shot. If a spike walks out at 250 yards, there is a good chance that you will think it's a doe. So for at least 100 years we have been selecting the worst genetics for our deer herd. But in spite of this the genetics have remained pretty much unchanged. So if you think your hunting club can improve what 100+ years has not been able to accomplish (change the genetics) then you are sadly mistaken.

So the point is, be happy with the genetics you have or move to another area. It's that simple. Sorry for the rambling nature of this section, I just don't want to spend too much time talking about a largely pointless endeavor.

Post #2 Which I think is most important one.

AGE - Ok here is the real subject of deer management that will have the largest effect: age. Age, bar none, is the single most important factor in determining how large a deer's rack is going to be. To consistently kill large antlered bucks you must be in an area that has older deer. So to get larger antlered bucks it is quite simple to figure out which deer the hunters in your area should shoot and which not to shoot. If it's not big then don't shoot.

Ok, that's the easy part. Now getting that as an actual practice in your area is the tough part. Let me explain, just in case a hunter from one of our Northern state's is reading. In the south we have very long deer seasons. Bow season is open from the first week of October till the end of January. The gun season is from mid-November to Late January. That gives us southern deer hunters just enough time to kill almost every buck in the state. The last hunting club that I was in was killing 80% of the bucks each year. That's why I got out of that hunting club. I know it was 80% because we kept records of the slaughter. It made me sick because it had the most potential of any place I have ever hunted.

In the south most 1 1/2-year-old deer have about 4 points, so if you are killing most of the bucks each year, guess what you are killing? That's right spikes, forkhorns and small six points. So to kill larger buck we must stop killing the 1 1/2-year-old deer. It's that simple.

Unless you control a large tract of land then there is a good chance that you will not be able to have much of an impact on the deer herds age structure. There is a rule of thumb that you need at least 2000 acres before you can manage for big bucks. There is a lot of truth to this statement but there is also alot wrong with this generalization also. For the record let's just say that the more land you control the easier it is for your management plan to have positive measurable results.

Since most leases do not comprise many thousands of acres this article will try to address management from the more common or typical person's perspective.

Obviously, if you let all 1 1/2-year-old deer live you will get the best results down the road. But that is not practical for most places. With the rising cost of land and leases that approach is simply more restrictive than most people are willing to put up with. So, many clubs have some rules that will restrict the harvest of younger deer. Here is a list of some common approaches.

* 1. No spikes are to be killed.
* 2. Nothing smaller than a 6 point.
* 3. 8 point or better.
* 4. Deer must have a certain size spread.
* 5. You are not allowed to shoot a deer smaller than one you have already taken.
* 6. Two bucks per person.

Each of these above methods has its advantages and disadvantages. I am not going to endorse any one particular method as the best. There just is not one best method. It all depends on what you are trying to accomplish.

You must tailor your rules to your needs. For instance, the last club I left would not have really been helped much by going to a no spikes rule. Only a few spikes were killed each year. Most of our 1 1/2-year-old deer had more than spikes. So the benefit would have been small. The point I am trying to make is that every place is different so you must tailor your rules to your area.

Let me elaborate a little on some things that might help you decide what you want to do. Since deer don't distribute themselves randomly and evenly across the land, you might be helped by knowing a couple of things about how a deer sets up its living area. First remember the big bucks don't set up shop in the best areas for food and cover. Why don't they you ask? Remember, even that 18" 10 point was once a small puny buck. When a buck is born it first lives with its mother. The mother will eventually drive the youngster off. This is when it sets up what will be its home for the rest of its short life. So when it sets up its house, it is at the bottom of the pecking order. Also this is nature's way of dispersing the young bucks away from their mothers to prevent inbreeding. So that spike you passed up early in the hunting season could very well locate off of your land.

But let's say you have put in a management plan and have a number of large bucks that call you land home. Here comes blow #2. That large buck that you saw all summer but has eluded you so far on your lease should be getting love sick soon and hopefully will make a mistake. Unfortunately when large bucks get in the mood they often become nomads of sort. So those meat hunters down the road could very well end up with your wall hanger in their freezer. Bucks tend to have very unique personalities just like people so don't lose all hope.

If you only learn one thing from this let it be that getting your neighbors involved in a quality management plan will yield more results than the most restrictive plan you could possibly implement on your land with no help from your neighbors.

So your neighbors aren't willing to do anything but shoot everything that moves! If that is the case there are a couple of things that you can do to help out the situation. First you must shoot does. Otherwise there will be no vacancies for new bucks to set up in. If your club shoots only big bucks and club 2 next door shoots everything including lots of does, guess what? All the bucks will live on their land. So you must shoot does unless you want to raise does so they can raise offspring for those outlaws next door.

You can also pull a fast one and make sure all does that are killed on your lease/land are killed near the center of your land. This is so that when a young buck sets up shop it will most likely be in the center of your land. This will minimize the time that he spends off of your land where he would be fair game.

Post #3

FOOD - The third thing needed to produce quality bucks is food. Fortunately most areas have enough quality food to produce decent antler size without any hunter intervention. But supplemental food plots can give deer more minerals and protein then they would get from native plants. Deer are just like athletes, to reach their potential they must be on a good diet.

Although food plots can increase weights of deer and increase antler size also, it's harder to get this affect then you might think. A food plot here and another there just isn't enough to have a huge effect. It has been shown that sprinkling an area of woodland with a few scattered food plots doesn't have any 'measurable' effect on the noted deer weights. To get a noticeable improvement in body weights it takes about 1 acre planted and fertilized for every 40 acres of habitat. This is a ballpark figure so don't argue that it is 1 to 30 or 1 to 50.

An important note is that to have any real effect these food plots must be productive year round. It does little good for a bucks antlers if you feed him well during the fall but the rest of the year he must rely on native browse. Now what you hunters down south must realize is that our deer face different problems than the deer up north. Up north a deer during the winter might face outright starvation. And winter die offs occur quite regularly due to starvation. We do not face that same situation in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama etc. When our lands get overpopulated the deer do not starve. They will have plenty to eat but it will be of low quality. Therefore the body weights and antler sizes suffer severely.

I have seen areas in Louisiana that you could expect to see 50 deer per day when hunting, but most were does and rarely was a decent buck killed. Racks were small and body size was small also. None of these deer were in danger of starving they had just been slightly malnourished. Refusal to kill does leads to this type of situation and no type of restrictive buck kill will help.

My point is that even though food plots can be quite effective at increasing herd quality, it is more productive for most people to focus on food quality by limiting herd size, i.e. doe harvest. You see, there are many different plants that provide food for deer. Of these hundreds, some are more nutritious than others. The most nutritious ones are the hardest hit by the deer. So if the herd is to large then only the low value plants will be available for the deer.

I am not saying don't plant food plots just realize what it takes to increase body size and antler size. There are many reasons to plant food plots other than these reasons. One good reason to plant food plots is to keep the deer on your land more often. This will lessen the likelihood that someone else will kill them as well as increase your chances. Another is why most people plant and that is simply to see/kill more deer. That 8 point in your clover field may not be bigger because of the plot but at least he is in your plot.

And referring to genetics section earlier, I am not saying not to shoot that 200-lb. spike. But cull it to make room for another buck that will have a large rack.

Also, if you do control the timber on your land/lease remember that deer don't climb trees. Mature trees, even oaks, don't provide nearly the pounds of food per year that the same area of cutover provides.

we have a healthy number of mature bucks…don't kill a lot, but have quite a few…about 1 in 20 give or take would be my guess. This is in Jackson Co. and based on getting pictures of mature bucks year after year. I'd say our avg. score for a 4 year old would be around 120. Very few under 110 and like I said maybe one in 20 140+

No way to get an idea without game cam pictures. Most people high grade, so what you see dead is skewed. A lot of guys with good land will pass on quite a few 115-120" 4 year olds during a given season waiting on the small percentage that actually make 130+

your arguing with real statistics and one of the most knowledgable people on this site. He doesn't need to go to your property, unless it's in a high fence… They did a study at the King Ranch and I think the avg. 4 year old was around 125, if I'm not mistaken. You will not even get 40-60% in the best area of Iowa.

Good point, but for us 4 1/2 year old bucks aren't that rare. I guess we suck at hunting, so plenty of them make it to maturity. What that does allow me is the ability to get plenty of pictures of and track quite a few bucks from young to middle age to maturity and not very many will make 140. I struggled with this a few years ago, but now I just accept the facts and realize that any mature buck with it's chin on the ground is a quite an accomplishment. But again, this is just on our place… but also what I've seen on a couple of other very good places I've hunted in other areas of the state.

Correct.

This is very true where I hunt also. I also struggled with this for several years I thought if I could afford to or just be lucky enough to get in the right club where they only shot big deer I would be able to kill a 140 + every year. I got to where I could afford it and now I have now realized that is an unrealistic goal in Alabama. Now I realize that if you are in the right club you can have an opportunity to kill a mature deer every year but odds are he will only score 115-125 took me while but I have finally accepted that fact and hunting is a lot more enjoyable now the way it use to be when I was much younger and just wanted to kill something with horns. I would have loved to have hunted some of the places that these guys talk about years ago when you could set on a field one afternoon and see 40-50 deer but I think those days are pretty much gone.

Bamakis,
What is the source of your article?

It's not impossible but it is tough. There are places in Bullock Co and Jackson Co that you should expect a 130+ every year if you put in the time and a 150+ occasionally. I had a place in Jackson that I killed 11 over 120" in 9 years with only 2 of them less than 130. It was very good hunting but I've seen some that was better, especially in Bullock in a little area near Fitzpatrick. It is all private land and they still see 25 and 30 deer a day frequently. If you are lucky enough to get in a club over there it will be $3500 minimum and likely $5000.