shooting does

No matter how many times I tell myself I am going to shoot a doe today I seem to talk myself out of it. Killed one with bow and need meat but I have lost the need for blood in my truck!!! Anybody else??

I only shoot one when it's convenient. Early in the day and where I can pull the fourwheeler close to it.

Has been 3 or 4 years since I shot one and I used to kill 10 or so most years. Now it just seems like a lot of work.

why
the taste better then a buck but meat is meat

I hate having to drag one a long way but I still shoot several a year and say why did I shoot her back here.

I usually shootem when I have a guest so they can help.

We've stopped shooting does. We prefer to actually see deer most hunts vs decimating our herd. We have a low population to start with.

I don't shoot many, and I just never kill one with a gun. For me it's because nobody else in the house eats deer, so I don't ever have one processed (I give them all away, or donate it to the Helping the Hungry program). It's just a "cost vs benefit" analysis for me... isn't enough fun to justify the work. I've killed does before in the evenings and tried for hours to find someone who'd take her.

Then also for me, I'm mostly hunting on two places now: One of which doesn't allow doe harvest, and the other place is has a low density, so I choose not to kill them there. I'm just sorta "horn huntin".

I have so many hunts where I don't see any deer that when I actually see something I have a dilemma. I really want to shoot because I hunt so hard without seeing many deer but I feel guilty if I shoot a doe because I'm just adding to my first problem.

Does anyone know an estimate of how big an effect killing one doe has on the population in 5 years? I bet it's close to 15 less deer and keeps growing exponentially.

I'm not against shooting does but the places I hunt (mostly public land) there seems to be a low population.

Have killed 5 so far and may kill 20 more. Just depends on what the properties need. Much rather have doe meat in the freezer for sure.

When my wife isnt pregnant(we have a 15 month old and another due in march) I have no problem filling the freezer. She hunts to kill.

Have not hunted any properties in a long time that needed does harvested for management purposes so it has been a long time since I have shot a doe. The few we are allowed to shoot I leave to my members that need the meat more.....

Barry, are you still in charge of the BHA hunts at oak mountain?

I have been trying to kill 3-4 for the freezer since season opened and have only seen one I could get a shot at all I have seen is small bucks go figure you would think killing a couple does would be a lot easier in a place that is overpopulated.

Nope .

X2.

I've killed 4 and just getting started. I don't have a problem killing them except the fact that I can longer kill two a day. That hurts.

Yup, when I'm in the mood, I'd just soon deal with two as one.

Our doe population is pretty level this year and I am a firm believer in waiting for something to join her in the field. Also, we typically take two weekends out of the year and run down to the farm in andalusia for all the meat we could ever need.

I usually shoot one but been telling myself I was going to buck hunt this year. I haven't ruled it out. One thing is no one much in family likes the meat but me and my daughter. But I've got a hankering for some deer jerky. Next one I kill I'm saving the back straps and making jerky out of the rest. Both kids and I love the jerky. It's just a lot of work and kind of expensive to make with the cost of the marinades.

Two a year for the freezer.

Hunt for a big farmer on some of his land and I tear them up. At my place I'm more selective.

I don't shoot them, even with the bow. I guess it is something inside me about killing females, but shooting a doe does not crank my tractor. I personally would not drag one out of the woods for two of them. My area can't stand the loss of female deer, so they all get a pass. It is also surprising what is usually following those does come Christmas time. Just ask my son what follows and he will tell you why we want unpressured does on our properties. My daddy always said where you have women you will always have a few old men hanging around. He was right.

I passed that on a few years back.

I have killed 5 so far but they have been off of 4 different properties in 4 different counties in Georgia and Alabama. I try not to kill many off one place. I believe hunters in general have gone overboard with the doe killing.

I shoot a few every year but I'm in one of the higher deer density areas of the state. That being said, we still remain conservative with our doe harvests as a club. We don't shoot does off of greenfields and we harvest around 12 total off of 1400 acres. We harvest them within the first couple weeks of gun season and then close doe season for the rest of the year. We set our own "doe days" even though the state allows doe harvest all year in our area. .

I don't have any moral or ethical issues with shooting does. But, I think that in general, they are extremely over-harvested on most properties. We kill a couple on our place as the situation dictates. But, we do not shoot them on food plots as to keep the hunting pressure off the plots.
I have not killed one in a couple of years. I try to let guests and kids take the ones that we do take.

Hogwild wrote, "But, I think that in general, they are extremely over-harvested on most properties."

I'm not arguing with you at all. However, I find it interesting that this is true because of all the hype about bucks across the entire industry, from magazines to websites to marketing of products -- how to shoot the biggest bucks, hunt does to find big bucks, don't shoot does before/after a certain date so you can get the biggest bucks, use this product to get the biggest bucks... on and on. I also see a lot of buck fever on forums like this one. Again, I'm sure you're right. I'm just finding it fascinating that with all the hype and talk of shooting the biggest buck around, does are still over-harvested. Could be because they're daredevils; they're always the first ones out of cover, and seem to be the ones most likely to be hit by a car.

I'm unabashedly out here specifically for does; I'm not interested in paying to have a deer mounted, and if I did it probably wouldn't get displayed. I'm here for the venison, but mostly for the excuse to get outside and enjoy nature.

Nobody's saying you shouldn't be able to kill a doe or two for meat. What most people have thankfully realized is that if you have a total of 5 deer on 500 acres, killing 3-4 does for the purpose of trying to increase your deer herd makes no sense at all. Not even a little.

I haven't shot one in years. When I can only get 2-3 does per week on my trail camera and see about 5-10 per yr while hunting, the population can not stand to lose many where I hunt. Plus, with the low number of does and overall deer we have, they tend to get the bucks moving much more than in areas that have decent populations.

Killed 3 in GA with my bow. I'm done with does. Not going to shoot any in AL. Haven't seen enough in the past few years to justify it. Glad to see the state back off the 2 does/days. I would like to see us go back to "Doe Days". I struggle to see deer period in AL now.

I agree cgardner. I see a lot more deer in Georgia too.

I don't shoot does. Myself and my friend have 1100 acres and we have shot 5 does in the last 8 years mostly guests and mostly during youth hunt, as a result we see a lot of deer on each hunt and kill some nice bucks yearly. Remember for ever doe you kill it stops that doe from producing offspring. Don't believe all that stuff about shooting does to make better bucks. BS

Going okay until you said this^^^

It all depends on whether or not you are at or near CC for your property. If your property is at or above CC you can absolutely improve the health/quality of your ENTIRE deer herd, not just the bucks by removing a proportion of the antlerless population on your property. Simple, proven and repeated science.

Location, location, location.

I know it's hard for some on here to believe but there are places in AL that NEED to kill more deer. Removing mouths does indeed improve herd health. And populations with fewer does is the ideal situation for killing a mature buck up on his feet, NOT having 25 does in a field as a "lure".

I haven't shot one with a gun in years. I try to kill a couple each year around the house with a bow.

Is this by counties or just on certain property within counties?

In your opinion, what percentage of the state would be considered over populated? I've hunted most parts, and I would guess less than 15% was over populated. The problem that I am seeing is that kids are going out and not seeing deer and getting bored with it. I still have not been able to get my boy out and see a deer from a stand.

Maybe I am just lucky but I see deer on almost every hunt. Today with the temps in the 70's I shot a coyote & still saw a spike & 2 does. We shoot a lot of does & eat lots of venison. Give lots of deer away also.

My properties need more does harvested not less. But the key to seeing numbers of deer is not over hunting the area. Taking a child or 2 & shooting 3-4 does puts much less pressure on a place than shooting 4 does in 4 days. Same net harvest but considerably more pressure.

Good post.

Folks also need to understand if you have a lot of deer , you better have a lot of food for them. Does all of these "under populated" areas have the habitat to support a big increase in numbers?

HUNTERS ARE SPOILED.

It's not gonna kill anyone to go on hunts and not see deer. In the early 70s in Jackson Co. the herd was only 10 years from being restocked. If you saw a dozen deer a year it was a good year. If you killed a spike it was a big deal. And when someone killed a 120" buck, we thought it was a state record! Now we have more than plenty, we can shoot 2 does a day up in these mountains and never kill them out, just too much terra with too much area to hide.

Over populated is also a term that can mean different things depending on your objectives. You can have “healthy” deer that are decimating the habitat. From a state perspective, biologists also have to look at the long-term effects on the forest. For example, when deer populations get too high then oak regeneration becomes nil. Long-term this type of browsing pressure changes the make-up of plant species diversity. This may not even cross the mind of someone who’s only goal for “management” is to have a lot of deer.

I hunt one such property just like Matt and NH are describing. I lease 1400 acres in in a high deer density area. The land belongs to a good friend of mine’s family. Previously to me leasing it as a club, the land was only hunted basically by my buddy. The land had very, very little hunting pressure and no significant amount of deer had been harvested off the property for years. After running cameras during late summer, we were shocked at how few mature bucks we photographed. I assumed it would be over flowing with mature bucks since it was virtually untouched land. The reality though was that you could count the number of mature “shooters” we had on camera on one hand. Things changed when the rut kicked in and new bucks showed up….but prior to the rut, you were basically hunting mature bucks that did not exist on our land in any significant numbers.

Here’s what I attribute that to. When you have plenty of deer and you let the does get old, then they become aggressive and territorial. They will claim the best bedding and feeding areas as theirs. Each year about this very time of the year…..young bucks leave their mamas and disperse to find a new home. Picture it like a bunch of ants randomly running around on the aerial photo of your land as well as all the surrounding land around you. So what determines where these little young bucks finally settle down and establish a core area? It depends on the amount of aggression they receive from doe groups and old matriarch does. The young bucks will find a feeding/bedding area and give it a try. If there is an abundance of old does that have already claimed these areas as theirs, then the young bucks will be kicked out and sent down the road to find another spot. Often times this is on the neighbors property who has been shooting does. Why? Because there are “vacancies” there to be filled.

If you are trying to “manage” for mature bucks then you want to recruit as many of these young bucks as possible during buck dispersal and then raise them up to the age class that you are managing for. This means taking out some of the old does in order to open up holes for the young bucks to move into and establish core areas in. Again though, we're talking about areas with plenty of deer.

This is the 3rd year of our hunting club, we’ve taken out 11 does the first season and 14 last year. The first doe I shot last year was estimated to be 7 years old plus looking at the jawbone. Our goal this year is approx 12 does. So far this year, the number of young buck sightings seems to be on the rise compared to the last two years. We’re also seeing lots of twins and one club member even saw a doe with triplets. That’s a really good sign of herd health. I shot a doe over the weekend with twins that had fat on her rump like an old buck. We’ll see how things play out over the next few years. I think by taking out some does each year will allow us to have more bucks with their core area on our property.

I can't answer that because I don't know. It is certainly site specific, property specific.

A few things.

People completely take what Bios say out of context. If managers partially put into place what is recommended, or apply a biological concept of deer management wrong it can have bad or unintended results. That happens a lot. Deer management is very easy. Keep deer below or at what the habitat can support. Kill whatever fits your management criteria. That's it. You can do ALL that and keep people happy. Problem is folks take biologists recommendations too far, or not far enough. I can't tell you how many site visits I make and never hear back from the folks. I have no idea if they applied what I said, went way overboard, not enough. They might think I'm an idiot and don't know what I'm talking about. Fact is, biologists make recommendations based on scientifically proven results. If you want some dang fine hunting in AL, provide enough food for your deer by either increasing harvest to bring the herd down to a manageable level, or provide more food for the deer you have. Best thing to do is a combination of both. Monitor your results every year and make necessary changes. It's easy. If I suggests a landowner kills every doe he sees. That doesn't mean do it into eternity. That means take advantage of every opportunity to lower the deer population now, monitor, slack off if necessary, and monitor more. Deer management is very fluid. You're constantly tweaking harvest according to trends. Another issue is large areas of small land ownerships. That's a disaster waiting to happen with very liberal bag limits. That is what has happened over large areas of this state. Every 40 acre landowner can not continue to kill 5 deer per year and sustain a deer herd. Other areas in the state have large land ownerships, and not enough hunters to kill what is needed.

Too many folks make it way too hard.

Nighthunter, reckon we can count the contacts that read this thread in our tech guidance report?

You bet...

Maybe a few will listen.

Matt's point about land ownership patterns is spot on in my experience. I believe it is more important than a lot of people realize.

Sadly, I don’t think there are very many people who are actually hearing what you guys say. It’s crazy how stubborn we are as hunters. Folks act like you’re just making stuff up and pulling chit out of thin air. Either that or they don’t really comprehend what you’re trying to tell them and then they take what you said off into left field somewhere, completely bastardizing the message you tried to relay to them. People want to blame the state all the time on here and say that the state is mismanaging our deer herd. If there is any mismanagement going on, it’s being done by the individual hunters. Too many folks who won’t hear anything different than what they “believe”.

I'm glad it's not just me. I've hunted about 7 days in Alabama this season and seen 4 deer. 1 buck I killed. 3 on same day (1 doe and 2 small bucks) all got a pass. I hunted in Illinois this year for the first time. Actually expected to see deer there. Saw 30 in one day. Alabama needs to figure out what they do up there (7 gun days) and imitate it

Very much so.

Can not compare AL to the Midwest. They have more food up there than the deer can eat. They also have far less cover. You see deer in that habitat type because they have nowhere to hide. If a deer gets out of its bed you see it. Because there is far less available thick cover and a LOT of food, cutting deer off is as easy as putting on your pants.

Everyone one wants to kill does when it's not on their own property, and then when you tell them not to shoot does on your place you get the standard QDMA answer, that's why you don't see bucks, your sex ratio is off, that's why you don't see a rut.....nah it's beacuse y'all shoot everything that walks and just like to kill.

The more management and work I do on my properties the less I want to kill the deer.

Until the deer begin to die from starvation on my place I'm gonna limit doe harvest.

If you've never hunted a property that had very liberal doe harvests, a balanced sex ratio, and a 4 year old buck behind every tree then you're missing out. IT WORKS. And it's amazing to see the things you see on places like that. Can't knock it if you've not tried it.

We've harvested anywhere from 25+ does per year to 0 does a year on my place over the last 15 years. We haven't seen any difference in the number of bucks we kill per year or size of their antlers. We weren't seeing bucks like we wanted and did the standard state bio thing. Told us to kill 25/year. We took weights, collected jawbones... Sent them away and year after year the recommendations never changed. After 3 years of killing 25 a year not only were we still not killing bucks, but we weren't seeing deer at all. We've slowly decreased our doe harvest to where we now kill 6-8 a year. Only difference we have seen is an increase from about 75lb average weight of a doe in 2000 to about 95 now.

****** has not made one bit of difference in our buck hunting, or the size of our bucks********

Location, location, location you either got it or you don't.

You made a big jump, so I am going to jump with you...

When the deer are dying from starvation on your place, your grandchildren will not see the habitat back to a "normal" structure after the deer have degraded it to that point. It is all in you personal goals but if you want to allow deer to destroy your habitat, they absolutely will. Once they do, the damage takes years to reverse and some important indicator/historical species could be extirpated from the local fauna.

As has been stated over and over and over again, it varies by location and herd and habitat health will tell you how to manage your population. It has nothing to do with QDM.

healthy habitat = healthy deer --> you add trigger restraint and you have a well rounded management plan.

Those are great points, but I've hunted places in AL where I could see 150-200 yds through thinned or mature timber and still don't see many deer. Food definitely helps but we just don't have the numbers they do. You can't see tons of deer if you don't have them no matter what the landscape. My point was 2.5 months is a lot longer than 7 days and has a real, negative, and visible effect on the population.

It takes many years. If you started with too many deer that had already degraded the habitat, you are not going to see changes in buck size/antlers until you manipulate the habitat to a better state. You're also not going to see more bucks by killing does alone. It takes correcting the sex ratio, AND trigger control by not only you, but your neighbors. Bucks seek out the most productive habitats available, not the ones with the most women. They eat 12 months a year. They chase tail for a couple to a few weeks. It's all about resources. Food and cover is more important than women.

I see you live in Cullman. If that is the county you hunt then you have a low deer density, and some of the worst habitat in the state. Cullman will never have high numbers of deer. There are pockets of good habitat in that county, but most of it is marginal at best.

This is why the deer population where I live is very low and will remain to stay low. I have had a camera out for at least 7 years on a corn feeder and I have got one picture of one buck that I would consider a shooter.

A 4 year old buck behind every tree I have definitely been missing out.

I'm honestly not sure what to do on our place. I've got two young ones that enjoy seeing deer each time they go. I've hunted places where I've sat an entire season and counted less than 10 deer. I've also hunted places where I've seen 100 deer/day. We've been "managing" our place going on 4 years. We average somewhere between 7-9 deer a hunt. Some hunts you might not see any, or maybe just one. If the stars align in late December, it's not unusual to see 25-30 in a sit. We have taken one, six and one doe off the property over the past three years. Our ratio is about 1 to 3.5. We feed year round and although our plots are eaten to the ground already, there is no browse line in the woods. I just enjoy seeing deer, and plenty of them, to go postal on them. I feel like we have a good balance and would rather err on the side of too much trigger restraint than too little. What should I be looking for in order to see if we need to take more does? Body weights are average for the area, although I feel antler sizes are below average, even with year round supplemental feeding. We also have the best fawn recruitment this year that I've seen since we've had the place. Most does are leading twins around.

I live in Cullman, but hunt mostly public land. Bankhead the most because I can be there in 30 min. That's good to know though. I live in a bad county to deer hunt and there are lots of hunters. Will bankheads numbers likely improve?

Sounds like you are seeing plenty of deer. What are they? Does? Young bucks? Do you get any mature bucks on camera?

I'll say this too, just because you have mature bucks on your property doesn't mean they will be hanging on the meat pole before the year is over. They are extremely tough to kill even when your property produces them.

The idea that We can "self regulate" our deer herd to its best potential is obviously not working. While the rest of the country's deer herds improve ours is in decline. I myself am sick of seeing less deer/bucks while the neighbors self declare a high doe population as an excuse to shoot their guns.

It's obvious this is an issue. We have a couple forum biologists telling us how great the "science" is and the majority of the states stakeholders observing a decline in deer numbers and quality.

I can pick my nose and call it scientific research. We want to SEE results!

Pump the brakes there guy... So you are telling me that you want the state to regulate what is being killed since self regulation isn't working? That's a far cry from what most people want.

Deer management is just as much people management as anything, the problem is people have free will and are going to do what they want anyway. We can't force change. We are trying our best to re-educate if you will, the hunting public. My gut tells me that it will take 10 years to get people in this state to buying in to what our Dept. is telling them. That said, we are going about things in a whole new way. Give us time, support us, even be suspicious if you want, just give us input and work with us instead of against us and take part in the changes to come.

Perfect example of taking things we say entirely out of context. I've managed properties for several years now and know how to manage deer. The problem is when you the entire public flexibility they abuse it. Half the people who are against government collecting data and requiring all deer be reported are the same people screaming we done killed to many! Which is it? You want the state to regulate and manage the resource or step out of private land business and let people do what they want? That obviously don't work.

Like I said time and time again, deer management is site specific, and you can not base your deer management opinions based only on where you hunt. It could be right the opposite 10 miles away. If you're not talking to your neighbors and trying to form cooperatives around your hunting area than there may be an over harvest of deer in that area. Keep in mind that is not the case everywhere. Some places in this state are extremely overpopulated still. I hunt managed and unmanaged properties and I don't struggle to see deer anywhere I hunt. I actually struggle to kill enough because the habitat indicates there's too many. And the whole time I may be seeing a half dozen or more deer per hunt the adjoining landowner may be crying about seeing no deer. Its not that the deer aren't there. Their hunting strategies are little to be desired. Some people just can't hunt or rely on deer to walk out into pressured areas. It don't work that way guys. I've conducted site visits to properties that claim to have no deer. As soon as I get out of the truck the dirt roads are littered with tracks, there's an obvious browse line, and all they hunt is plots day in and day out.

I'm confused, was that a joke? The state regulates ALL natural resources both hunting and fishing, to insure that all individuals have equitable access to these natural resources.

The state sets season and bag limit "regulations" that already exist. The part I disagree with is having such liberal doe limits with the idea that the public can ajust the harvest for some sort of optimal performance. It just isn't working and never will.

Matt beat me to the punch.....This will piss some folks off I'm sure but part of the issue is that many of the hunters in the woods just aren't good enough hunters to kill the deer that they are wanting to kill. I've seen it in my own club over the last couple years. One guys comes in reporting seeing 5-6 bucks chasing one doe while another guy stands there and talks about how he hasn't seen a racked buck all year. Then you get the lunch time circle of bull chit talk about all the things that need to change in order for them to be able to see deer. Its never them. Its always something else.

This is not only a Alabama problem. Many other areas of the country are seeing declining numbers. Dr. Kroll ( aka Dr. Deer) is doing a series of articles now in NAWT magazine about this very subject. Pick up the last 3 magazines or they may have them on their web site.

Let yer neighbors blast away, can't stop them and worring about it won't help. If they have food make yer place be the cover, if they have cover, make yours have the food. Or make yours have both, sanctuary with food. Keep pressure down by not hunting much till rut. Then go in and load the truck.

Habitat enhancement and a change in hunting tactics can work wonders.

Guns coyotes and mother nature play a role in this as well thats the only thing that concerns me about killing to many does .
I agree 100 percent with Matt on trying to manage correctly , if you start seeing less body weights on your does etc then you probably do have a to many deer , we just need to be careful when trying to reach a happy medium .
I have been in situations where we see 25 does on a food plot and no bucks but i have also experienced 8-10 bucks eating in a
food plot and no does . I would like to know if you do a study and on your place you dont have numbers but you go to your neighbor and he is feeding 9 months out of the year and his numbers are excessive how many is he dragging off your property ?

No joke. You are saying you want MORE regulations on harvest, right? You want tighter doe restrictions am I wrong, or have I misunderstood you?

I passed on a decent doe opening weekend because it was a long drag back uphill and I didnt have any help

When you're able to walk down a wooded road in Jan and not take a step without stepping on a rotten white oak acorn is when you know you're not over populated with deer!! I have noticed this on many tracts of land throughout the state. I have also seen a steady decline in the number of deer I get on game cameras.

We have been killing around 25 does a year on 2000 acres of planted pines for about 20 years and letting small bucks walk.35 plots 5 buck only and 2 does max on the other plots then they becomes buck only. Plant the best food we can, keep the ph up high so the grass is sweet. soil sample often. No corn. This year we locked our place up the first week of Oct. after planting. No human traffic till opening morning. Sure was nice to walk to my stand on opening morning and see no boot prints or 4 wheeler tracks. Every buck shot must be at least skull mounted and hung in the camp house for everyone to see. This is working for us.

Sounds great, I like it. Ya'll gonna shut it down 2-3 weeks before rut and then bring the shock and awe?

I don't believe that is what the state is doing nor is it supposed to. Read a book on the North American Model of game management. There is NO equitable access nor should there be. See what happens when you kick 49r of this site!! Heresy!!



They have to allow "lax" regulations since you might want a LOT of small deer on your land and manage for spikes and little does, and I might not want but just a few deer on MY land next door supporting large deer and a lot of bucks. I should be able to shoot my deer herd down to the size where they are not eating my bean garden for instance. If you don't like what the neighbor does, buy up more land or move!

I like the liberal regulations but I think in the past the idea of shooting does was overdone. It heard it said that you should shoot every doe you can or that you can't shoot too many does by legal means. According to what your goals are, I don't think that is true.

I think education is the key, not regulation. I can see Matt and Nighthunter educating on this site that doe harvest is a site specific issue. I'm not totally against going from 2 does a day to one....from an education standpoint it sends the message that maybe we have overdone the doe harvest at least in some areas.

Education not regulation X2. However, some folks just can't grasp that there are areas that can support a 2 a day limit. So they complain and complain and DCNR changes the whole state to one size fits all.

I agree with you 2dogs but in reality I doubt 2 a day or 1 a day makes a big difference. Most people shoot a certain number every year and then stop. Most hunters don't even shoot a deer every year and for others most only shoot a doe or two and that is all they want.

It might keep some of us legal. When I'm in the mood to do crowd control I want shoot more than at a time.

Which is one reason in west Tennessee, basically half the state from Nashville west, has a big deer problem and liberal daily doe allowances ... and still can't get numbers in check. Hunters can't and won't shoot three does a day for multiple days even if they can donate them or have folks who want them. That's a lot of work and it also begins to hit the psyche ... "Dang, three deer a day? That's too much" even if it's not.

Gobbler, If you think those are "your" deer on "your" land you are mistaken. The dirt and grass are yours but the deer are not. If you would like to test this theory walk out of your back porch in June and shoot one of "your" deer that are harassing your aforementioned garden. The Game warden will clear this subject up for you.

"They have to allow "lax" regulations since you might want a LOT of small deer on your land and manage for spikes and little does, and I might not want but just a few deer on MY land next door supporting large deer and a lot of bucks. I should be able to shoot my deer herd down to the size where they are not eating my bean garden for instance. If you don't like what the neighbor does, buy up more land or move!"

UNLESS they happen to shoot too many bucks or run dogs.

THEN you go to your wealthy buddies on the CAB and have limits set and ban dog hunting so the Law will protect 'your' bucks and take others Rights away to enjoy their property how they choose.


j/s

Yes and I still should be able to shoot the States deer herd down to the level I want on MY land, within MY management objectives!




Funny how my wealthy buddies on the CAB would not know me from Adam I am so tight with them. The only one who knows me by sight is Moultrie and I have not talked to him in years. While I did participate in the committee that ultimately made recommendations for buck restrictions, I have never weighed in on dog hunting not have I ever gone to the CAB to lobby for any changes in hunting regs... Ever!

Didn't necessarily mean YOU, per say!
But, that post you made does reek of elitism. And, is more than slightly hypocritical in light of the increasing Regulations.

Didn't mean it personal, though!

How can you make such an absurd statement? You obviously have not hunted and are not familiar with Cullman Co. Cullman is the #1 agriculture county in the state. 1000s of acres are planted in corn and soybeans every year. The county is home to an excellent population of healthy deer and turkey. We kill several 120+ class bucks every year and usually at least one 150 class buck every year. Alluvial river bottoms full of hardwoods and abundant pine forest driven by one of the largest pine buyers in North Alabama. Your comment is not only wrong, it's ignorant for a person in your position to post such a comment

Good grief. I said there are pockets of good habitat in Cullman County. The areas in Cullman county I have visited and conducted site visits on is NOT what you described at all. Most of it west of 65 is cattle country, reclaimed mine land, terrible managed timber, developed around Smith lake, etc. That is NOT good habitat. They have a LOW deer density. Low deer densities do produce good quality bucks. I'm not surprised at what you kill. Calling my statements absurd, wrong, and ignorant is very far fetched. You may have an area like that in Cullman, but understand most everybody else does not.

Cullman is the largest agricultural producer in the state because of two things, which are cattle and chickens. Horse grazing is also big. That don't make deer habitat.

Beef, Poultry, and don't forget sweet potatoes!!

Carry On!

I want to know where this GREAT deer habitat is in Cullman!

Matt don't know you & don't where you have been in Cullman Co but no reason for you to criticize our hunting. You are just plain wrong. We are not in the black belt but have just as healthy deer habitat & population as anywhere else in the state. Just don't understand why u criticize my home town

South of exit 299 just a ways, you can see it from I65

I think there may actually be a shooting house you can see...

I can see lease prices going up in Cullman Co since now everybody knows the deer hunting there is as good as anywhere in the state.

If your habitat was as good as any in the state, ya'll would kill more than a few 120s and one 150 " buck.

Ok I give up. Leave Cullman to the locals

I'm not trying to be mean, but I have to laugh about you saying I'm criticizing your home town and hunting. It's almost like you read my post and said,"heck no! You ain't attacking me!" That wasn't what I did at all. Cullman has terrible deer habitat, and a low population in a lot areas. Those are facts. Not an attack on your hunting. Because the population is very low in areas there are some great bucks killed. I'll give you that, but to claim that cullman has the same deer numbers as other parts of the state is false. It don't.

How would you know

Maybe I don't. This whole time y'all had me thinking I killed the last doe on the Cullman/Blount county line.

Yep, either side of the interstate is prime habitat there, if you can get in the fence

Riverwood......Have you ever been to Bullock Co?

Yes I have. Why do u ask?

2-1... 2 Does for each buck...

I grew up in Marshall Co. I've been to Cullman Co many times. I've lived down here in south Alabama now for the last 15 years. The amount of deer habitat up there just doesn't compare to areas that really have prime habitat. I think Bullock Co is one of or the biggest county in the state and its nothing but tens of thousands of acres of habitat just about like what Gobbler posts pics of. Nearly every county around it is just about the same. That's way different than what exists up there. I was asking if you had ever been to Bullock Co just to make sure you had a comparison of Cullman Co versus a county with real deer habitat.

CNC have you ever been to Cullman Co?

You see what Mr. Brock would have you believe is that there are reasons why you should never expect any more out of your deer herd than what you currently have. Because if you believe it should be better and you see that it's not you might start questioning the management of the state. Well we can't have that...

FH308,

How about quit bashing Matt Brock. He has been absolutely professional in every response and has continuously provided suggestions, recommendations, and advice on what INDIVIDUALS can do to make THEIR hunting property better. You on the other hand have done nothing but complain and dish out personal attacks.
How many CAB meetings have YOU attended to present your point of view?
How many phone calls have YOU made or letters have YOU written to those in charge to offer your point of view?
Have YOU discussed any of your opinions with your adjoining land owners to try to get the folks in your area on the same page?
Can you name ANYTHING that YOU have done other than come on here to bitch and complain about "The State"?

If you don't like what he has to say, then why not just agree to disagree and move on.

You questioned above the "management of the state". I personally don't want the state "managing" anything on my property. However, I do appreciate the tool box they have provided that allows me to LEGALLY take pretty much however many deer I feel need to be taken from my property. I rarely take a doe from my personal property, even though it's legal to do so everytime I step in the woods.

My only point is that saying Cullman Co. or any county for that matter, has a certain deer population, or a certain habitat, is just making a very broad statement. Areas in South Cullman Co have habitat and deer populations that rival anywhere in Alabama. There are large contiguous landowners who cooperate and practice QDM. Thousands of acres of soybeans planted. What makes you think this is any different than anywhere else in Alabama. Only reason is that you haven't been here

BTW contrary to popular opinion, we also have blacks & Hispanics in Cullman Co

Scrub buck, I have not personally attacked anyone. I am merely challenging the ideas that have failed. My fear that is becoming real in a small way in this thread is that because no one will say "we were wrong this doesn't work" we will continue down this destructive path.

And again I will repeat a fact that does not seem popular around here.

They are not "your" deer they are "our" deer!


Thread after thread, person after person gets on this forum and says that in the last several years the population of deer they hunt has reduced to a level they are not happy with, by far an overwhelming majority of people here.

Personally I don't want to tell the "good ole days" stories to my kids about how we used to see deer when we hunted. I want to take action and leave the good ole days for them to enjoy!

Message from Cullman Co dept of tourism. Cullman is
a progressive County. Things have changed since Matt's
last visit. Now you can 1. Buy beer. 2. Date a minority. And
3. Shoot a 200+ class buck

Yeah I guess it must have been pretty hard to date a minority in Cullman when you didn't allow them to stay after dark.

Where in Cullman Co is there thousands of acres of soybeans.

Along the river. Granted some of it is done in 20 -100 ac fields but there are still 3 big farmers who do it every year. And they did make us take down that sign

So we've went from one 150'er a year to 200"ers, progressive is an under statement.

http://www.nass.usda.gov/Statistics_by_State/Alabama/Publications/County_Estimates/AL_SOYBEANS13.pdf

6300 acres of beans in 2012. 7000 acres in 2013. They do have a very competitive yield compared to the rest of the state.

You don't hear that from NA fellers. In some areas the herd is still expanding. In others the numbers are about right per the biologists . When the state had the "citizens committee" meetings last year, I was told there were no complaints about low numbers from NA. The good ol' days are now in NA, I know I started hunting in the early 70's.

Our doe season got changed anyway, even though no biologist or hunters called for it.

200s just co$t more. You can get anything you want in Cullman now

How many landowners can you get who own 1,000+ acres in Cullman Co?

So there are 200 inch plus free ranging bucks in Cullman county?

There are 3 land owners in So Cullman Co who own and cooperate on over 12000 contiguous acs. Parts are in enclosures but a most is managed free range. There are several other hunting clubs & smaller landowners mixed in. Another 2000 is contiguous just across river in Blount Co. Same deer herd.

Never seen a 200 class deer anywhere free ranging in Alabama. However they are available here in Cullman

As a comparison…..I think some of it may have been sold or split but Sedgefield Plantation alone is/was 13,500 acres. Now that’s just one of several hunting plantations in Bullock Co….. Branch out from there in every direction and there are endless amounts of landowners who own 600 acre…. 800 acres……1700 acres……4,000 acres…..Hell, I’ve got two “neighbors” who own over 5,000 acres each myself. That makes a HUGE difference compared to an area where the habitat is fragmented with lots of individual 40-80 acre “farms”. You may have a decent area of the county where there is some good habitat, but from a county wide basis, the potential for having a large deer population is going to be limited by that factor.

I agree & like I said yesterday, this can't be compared to the black belt but will compare favorably to anywhere else in the state. Few counties outside the black belt still have tracts the size Sedgefield USE to have

We have 800 acres together with 200 of it still being farmed every year with standing crops most of the year. We have taken 12 doe and 2 bucks so far since the opening of rifle season. Normally we take between 20-40 deer a year off the property. Three years ago we took 35 deer off of 350 acres of it and only noticed a small decline the following season when we took 20. Back up to 28 last year. It all depends on where you are,deer density and the food available year round.

Wow! That sounds great!!!! Me and some of my buddies gonna head up that way and see what we can find to hunt. You don't get a chance at a 200"er everyday! Thanks for the tips!!

Some good one's on Brad and Stan's place for sure.

I think that Cullman County and ALL the Counties North of Hwy 80 are the GREATEST and everyone should hunt up there!

No need in leasing land down here in the South with these few tiny deer that we have!

Preach on Brother, preach on.

i often say the same thing to myself as i read thread after thread of people gripping about not killing or seeing deer. Be it due to dog hunters, neighbors, trespassers, or whatever. It is always the fault of someone else.

Yes exactly. They show up 45 min after shooting light and are eating a buscuit at Church's by 8:30. They drive their 4- wheeler across the property and park 10 yards from the stand. Climbing into the tree they notice their Tasco rings are rattling from when they banged on the ladder stand. They climb down shoot 3 times at a stump to make sure its still on and then back in the tree. I just dont know why some people have such bad luck.