Deer with Radio Collars

There was a posting in another section on ALDeer that was discussing the presence of radio-collared deer here in Alabama, and I wanted to bring this discussion into this section, where more people likely read the posts.

We are conducting a study with ADCNR, Westervelt, and two private groups to study movement patterns and survival rates of bucks and does on public and private lands in Alabama. We are working on Barbour and Oakmulgee WMAs, as well as on two conglomerates of private lands in Pickens and Marengo counties. These data will help the ADCNR with their management decisions in the future, and provide insight into how deer move relative to hunting pressure.

There are two graduate students on the project, and they have been working incredibly hard over the past 15 months to get these collars out. The goal is to have 60 VHF collars and 30 GPS collars deployed this fall. The VHF collars are brown, and the GPS collars are orange. The brown collars are being used to examine survival rates,a nd the orange collars are being used to examine movement patterns. If you see a deer with an orange collar...PLEASE DO NOT SHOOT THAT DEER. We are hoping to get 2 years of movement data out of each of these deer. If you see a deer with a brown collar, then make your decision to shoot regardless of the collar. If you would normally shoot that deer, then shoot it. If you would normally pass it up, then please pass it up.

Some individuals have indicated that these collared deer would make a great trophy. I'm not sure why the presence of a collar would make this a "cool trophy" in anyone's mind....especially considering that you would be biasing the data of two grad students that have poured their lives into this project. Additionally, you would be cheapening the study that the state and these other groups have so graciously funded to collect data about your hunting resource.

You may have heard last year that brown-collared deer were not eligible for harvest. This was because of the presence of drugs in some of these animals for a period after they were darted. This year, all brown-collared deer will have been darted well prior to the hunting season, and so will be fit for consumption. YOU CAN EAT THE BROWN-COLLARED DEER. Some orange-collared deer might have been darted during this upcoming season, so not only would you be hurting our data collection, but you may very well be harvesting a deer that is not fit for consumption.

Please pass the word along. Brown can be harvested...but only if you would normally shoot it. Orange...DO NOT HARVEST. If you do harvest a brown-collared deer, either contact someone with the ADCNR, or call the phone number that is printed on the collar. The number on the collar is my phone number. I'm sorry, but you will be asked to return the collar so that it can be deployed on another deer following the season. If you shoot at one of the collared deer, and you wound it (evidence of blood, etc.), please let me or the ADCNR know. It will help us to interpret the data we collect. And NO...we will not come out and help you find your deer. That would bias the data we are collecting.

The two students will be writing their theses from these data sets, and these will be available to the public both on our DeerLab website, and at the AU library. I will post links to these theses when the studies are done. But, they won't be completed for several years. We will also be preparing some articles for public reading, as well as for some scientific journals.

If you have any questions about the study, or concerns, do not hesitate to contact me. If it's a general question that everyone can benefit from, then post it here. And, don't hesitate to shoot me an IM to let me know that there is a question waiting, as I can't monitor this all day. If you have a specific question for me that would only relate to you, then it may be more efficient to contact me at ditchss@auburn.edu

Here are examples of an orange-collared deer and a brown-collared deer. The deer with orange collars have bright ear tags to help you differentiate between the two. The brown-collared deer do not...so as to make them less conspicuous.

thank you Steve.

what drug are ya'll using to dart with???

We are using Telazol and Xylazine, with a reversal of Tolazoline

That is awesome Dr D. I can't wait to read the results. Thanks for all the hard work y'all do. War Eagle.

Thanks for the explanation and keep up the good work!

I'm just doing what they pay me to do. The grad students are the ones slaving away on this one. We need to thank their wives!

Why do tall use a 2 piece tag like the y-tex? Why not use a one piece tag like a Z-tag. Wouldn't that be less of a chance to loose the tag, and also set up a ear infection? Not judging, just honestly asking.

We have had great luck with the two-piece tags. We use these same ones in our DeerLab deer. We recapture these deer approximately 2 out of three years, and have very high retention rates.

Wow! Good deal. They don't have the fence and stuff, like livestock to deal with, so they may very well do better. Neat thing yall doing by the way.

Doc, you said the brown collared deer were not allowed to be harvested. Were do we find that information? I had no clue there were deer out there unsafe to eat!!!

The brown-collared deer ARE allowed to be harvested...and they are safe to eat.

Fascinating work. I hope the study goes as planned.

Hey Doc, is this the first study on public land? Also if you have any data from prior studies I would like to see them or tell us where we could find them.

This is the first study on public land looking at movement and survival of adults that I am aware of in Alabama since I've been here. However, there have been other deer research studies on public lands in Alabama recently...they have just looked at different questions.

There have been numerous studies around the country that have studied movement and survival of adult deer on public lands.

With associated cost of a program like that I would have requested that ALL collared deer be non shooters unless the hunter wanted to pay the fine to have another deer tagged and collared.
After a year or two will the collars fall off after the screws rust out or something? They look a little tight.

Well, part of the research is to examine survival rates (including harvest rates). That is the purpose of the brown collars.

The collars need to be snug. They do have the ability to expand (on the other side of the collar), and they slide high on the neck during the rut. I have used these same collars (although non-expandable) with a larger subspecies for 5 or 6 years, and we had no problems.

The orange collars will fall off at a predetermined date (it is programmed into the collar), but the brown collars will stay on. However, most of these deer will be harvested within a year of the closure of the study.

Poor deer, no doe in her right mind would let a buck with one of those ugly things on, near her. Make for some fine chasin! LOL Great work, look forward to the info.

I'm excited to see the results of the student's research. I'd love to be doing a thesis on this. I wonder if it will confirm what we've always thought about deer patterns, movement, and survival or will it bring definitive new information to light? I guess we'll all just have to wait and see!

You absolutely need to blast this information via social and print media to every hunter that hunts in that area. Some yahoo will see an orange collar and blast away thinking he's killed a "trophy" when all he's done is take out a subject in the study. I look forward to the eventual results.

Dr. B

I commend the effort and time and dedication put forth for this study. Great job!

Can you reveal more specifically what areas of Marengo and Pickens county the deer were collared?

Just out of curiosity what is the estimated age range on those off limits orange collared deer?

Great stuff Dr. D.

Awesome! I'll be on the lookout for the deer collared around the oakmulgee. As someone said before you (or whoever) need to get this message out on facebook ASAP and get it circulating well before bow season. Even in some of the most remote parts of the state people still have smart phones and facebook, so social media could really help in getting the message out. Can't wait to see the results!

I would be concerned with deer being let loose that are drugged to the point of not being fit for consumption yet the public has not been properly notified. What happens if someone gets sick? Is auburn liable or the state.

nothing they are using to sedate those deer will hurt folks if they eat the deer....

If that's the case.. Why are they saying to wait a year before consuming..... Let me guess... A retired GW knows more than the professionals.... Maybe you went into the wrong profession since you're an expert....

Is this information found anywhere else on the net? I just looked at the Deer Lab site and didn't see it posted there. I can't get outdooralabama to pull up right now. I'd like to email a link to some friends and acquaintances that I dare not direct here. This place has enough foolishness as it is.

I don't know if it will or not, just going by what the people drugging them said.

you really do not mind showing how effin stupid you are do you???

The orange-collared deer range in age from 1.5 to about 4.5. There are some decent bucks that are collared. Sorry folks. The plus side is that they will be much larger when the study is completed.

There are no concerns with the sedation of these animals and them being fit for consumption. Every precaution has been put in place to ensure that there is zero risk.

We are not saying that one has to wait a year before these deer are fit for consumption. All deer that are harvested this coming year will be months past the date at which they were consumable. The prescribed waiting period for these deer is 30 days following their sedation...and 30 days is in all probability an exaggerated number. Once again, every precaution has been taken, and this protocol has been approved by a multitude of experts on the subject.

That's fine...Not arguing but... Why then why this statement...


I never saw in your post anything about 30 days until just now... Is the only way to know is call?

That is why you don't shoot the orange collared deer. Sounds as though they may be trapping/collaring during the season which could lend itself to deer being harvested within a 30 day widow of of being drugged.

That is how I understand it when I read it...

I understand it....there was no mention of the 30 day window until a few posts ago... Most likely there will be someone take one and disregard the tag anyway....

We will still be putting out a handful of orange collars during the hunting season. The thirty days is irrelevant for these collars because nobody is supposed to be harvesting them.

Probably won't need anyone to shoot them once the collars get hung up

10-4...

Interesting work and good job.

But I have a suggestion that you folks may have already have thought about and may already in the the works, and if so then disregard.

There seems to be no advertising on the study and no information dissemination to the public. I understand this may be by design. But if the researchers didn't want the orange collared deer to be shot then it seems they would inform the public. There is nothing on outdooralabama.com that I can see. There is nothing in the hunting and fishing digest that I remember. And there is nothing in the latest AON magazine that I have seen. I'm sure there will be signs posted on public owned hunting grounds in the study?

Not bashing anything and please do not take it that way because that is not my intention, but if many of the orange collared deer get shot then it will likely be because the hunter didn't know a thing about it.

I understand your concern. There is a game plan regarding talking to landowners on private lands, and talking to hunters on public lands.

You know......

Dr. Mirarchi was a friggin genius!!!
He told us that managing wildlife was relatively easy and all the challenges lie with managing PEOPLE!

Awesome thing you are doing Doc!

Thanks Doc for all the hard work and sharing that information with us here. Please thank the grad students as well. Looking forward to seeing the results of the study.

Please keep us updated on this, thanks for putting forth the time and effort to practice these studies. I'd like to see a lot posted here when this is complete. Thanks again.

We will be trying to make the results available to the public, but it will be quite a while before all of the data are collected, analyzed, and conclusions can be drawn.

The public will never see the results. Just like the public doesn't know about the collared deer or that they might not be fit to eat. You shouldn't have to happen by a post on a private Internet site to find out about things being done to public resources and public funds. They have public websites available for that but apparently don't have anyone competent enough to get the websites working most of the time.

I have to agree with a lot of this statement. For something that was funded, even if partially, by the state then I feel that there should have been a better plan for education for the public. If it was released on public lands then adding a note to the WMA maps would have been a great idea.

Agreed..... If these deer get shot and the students lose valuable info for their thesis.... It will be because of people who don't visit this sight and have no clue what's going on with this project.... Especially with all the Florida and Georgia hunters on the Eastern side of the state who have no clue what's going on..... I hope the students do well...but if they don't....their grade lies in the hands of the person who decided not to make this public information.....

Stupid question that may have already been posted. Is it illegal to kill the orange collared deer? Not asking if you want it to happen because obviously you don't but you did collar some 3 1/2 plus year old deer if I read correctly.

It should not be illegal. The laws are written by the legislature not some researcher at a school. I wouldn't shoot it now, knowing about it but if I saw one before this year I probably would have, thinking some dumbass collared a deer and let it loose.

It is not illegal........ They just don't want you to shoot them since they are in a study being conducted by AU grad students...... That's what we are talking about here..... The only people(hunters) that even know about this are the aldeer members..... The rest of the hunting public has no clue.... Which means the general public hunters may most likely shoot them being they don't understand the reasoning behind the collars.....

Agree, a little PR in the areas where the studies are being done would have gone a long ways. Word of mouth by hunters would do the rest.

I'm sorry everyone doesn't agree with the manner in which this project has been publicized. This topic has been discussed by the parties involved, and suffice it to say that is has been publicized in a lot more venues than just aldeer.com. From a scientific perspective (how it impacts the data) in studies that involves the harvesting of research animals, there are pluses and minuses to publicizing the study prior to and during the project. This influenced much of the way in which it was publicized. But, once again, there are still things taking place (many of which have yet to occur) to make hunters in the areas aware of the study. Here is one example (and there are others):

Al.com article

Hope this helps alleviate some concerns.

I imagine about 90% of hunters get a rules and regs book every year. Wouldn't have made since to publish a article in their about this? I mean they Already waste space with all that Outdoor Alabama stuff in there.

there's a guy near me that raises deer and tags them . i never kill them .course aint no big buck with a tag in his ear walked by either . lol

if you mean a REAL reg book Daniel you can change those numbers to less that 1% get a reg book.......

Tru-dat.

Steve, did ya'll or some group you are familure with eartag some deer in dallas county 3 to 5 years ago? If so, number 9 he's dead.

I was never involved with any deer research in Dallas county. Sorry, and thanks.

What part of Dallas County?

Crumptonia

lol . . . . that struck me funny

Are the orange tags reflective? Just kiddin. Look foward to the results.

Honestly, I never thought about it...but I sure hope not.

So what you are saying. "If it's brown it's down". Not sure we need to teach that. That is precisely what we are trying not to teach our youth. Lol. Maybe a better choice of color on harvestable deer next time. Maybe orange and blue. RMFTR! I can't keep a straight face. Good job Doc. Look forward to the report.

Lmfao

How many is in Marengo county? I hunt in sweet water.

This past weekend I stopped by the Ace Hardware in Linden. They had large poster board with pictures similar to the ones Steve posted and it described the outlines of the deer study. It is quite possible they are putting the word out in the counties involved in the study but not the state as a whole since the study is being conducted in probably less than 5% of the state.

I didn't know deer were going to wear hunter orange too. I hope nobody mistakes me for a deer they saw wearing hunter orange.

They are trying to get it out there...

Bham News Spot

This whole thing is fascinating and I don't know how it's being handled with the Westervelt clubs. But with the world of game cameras and people making "hit" lists and such. I'll have to say, if a 4 year old plus buck gets tagged where I'm hunting, the collar will probably not deter my original intentions, whatever the color. Now maybe the club got a lease discount or something, but we don't have those details. I hunt in Marengo County, but not overly worried about seeing one. However, I bowhhunt only and a 4 year old is a trophy for me, no matter the antler quality. I paid my dues for a club, no Marengo County discount, and much more throughout the year. Basically to summarize my thoughts, I don't wont to have to deal with an orange collared deer, but if I do.........

nice "me" attitude here...^^^^^

I know it'll be quite some time before data is collected & reported but I'm very excited to learn what information this study brings. Great work!

Ok, provide a well thought out rational counterpoint then.

As far as "me" attitude. Not even close. I've killed 1 buck in the past 3 years and passed on the opportunity to harvest a lot of deer since I started hunting. Not quite the selfish hunter you assume I am.

Based on the knowledge we have currently, there are scenarios that could be difficult for hunters.

Dr D asked us not to shoot the orange collared deer....try a little respect for the man and what they are trying to do.....

Im an AU grad and support AU.

Based on what we know, here are two scenarios that could happen. If this is not true, tell us.

1 - Hunter in club across road from large tract where deer are being tagged has a pic of a mature buck in September that he would love to harvest. Reads about study by chance. Deer walks by during season and all of a sudden has a orange collar.

2- Father and son in same club have a similar encounter while father was helping son harvest first buck. Son doesn't understand about a study. Father asks him to go again next weekend, and son says he's just not as interested.

I just don't wont to be either of these guys.

Be open minded

Nobody seen or shot one of these yet?

Please don't tell anyone else you graduated from AU...

Why?
Do you hunt where this could affect you? Think about someone who does.
You can't make snide comments about people who want to bring logical conversations to the table. Or is that not allowed here?

You must think only your opinion matters. You must be a dog hunter?

I don't have a dog in the fight. Well actually, I guess I am supporting the study 100% but if you don't see turkey's point, you're blind and stubborn.

Yes, the negative impact on these deer are probably going to be pretty small but chances are there it could be there.

He's just saying there is a chance.

Ok - I apologize to Daniel for this one - just a little testy.

Let me try again.

Why not say I'm an AU grad?
What do you know/ perceive about me?
What part of the argument do you disagree with?
And again - do you think this will affect you where you hunt?

What else do we really need to know about deer?

I just realized my I put slap and not a smiley. I was just picking about you making a little sense and I see your point. No hurt feeling here. I forgot to put smiley behind it. It was early in the morning. But I do see your point.

Yes I'm a loud and proud outlaw dog hunter. Killed a pit bull last year that scored 150" j/k

You and shooters getting tight???

Thats a negative Ghost Rider.. Unless he wants to put a starter on a Yota for me..

I wouldnt charge nobody 60 dollars to put on a toyota starter. Not even DW!

Between the dogs and hurtin you two put on asses I thought y'all were new Joshes

Im going to hide the steps to your loc-on's AFTER i get threw hunting them!

My brother in law shot a doe yesterday with the brown collar.

hope those FL boys hunting Barbour county dont see the collared deer.....they will shoot anything.

Well, I know one is down.
My buddy, Clay Nettles, killed this one yesterday!

Any updates on the Program?

It was 48#

They did a similar study in Maryland (of all places) several years back. They collared bucks of all ages groups from a large hunting club to see what the patterns of those bucks would be by age group on bucks before, during, and after the hunting season. The results were very interesting. I read an article on this study (I think it was about 10 years ago)but I don't remember who published the study. The thing that stuck out the most is that bucks moved more during the day than previously thought, however the mature bucks rarely (only twice if I remember correctly) came within shooting range of an established club stand during daylight hours . However, these same bucks would visit those club stands nightly, almost as if they were checking to see if anyone had been there. Which explains why they would avoid those areas during the day.

I have since tried to find the results of that Maryland study online but haven't been able to find it. I have found a bunch of other deer/buck movement studies, but couldn't locate that particular one. I liked how they had all of the GPS coordinated of established club stands and tracked buck movement in relation to those. I haven't seen any other studies that looked at that data, just overall movement in general of bucks throughout the different times of year.

Are the collars better braised, grilled or fried?

Brief update...

There have been a number of collared deer harvested this year, at each of the 4 study sites. Most individuals have been fantastic about calling us when they harvested one so that we could arrange to get the collar from them. Thank you for your help.

Surprisingly, there have been less collared deer harvested than I had originally thought. unfortunately, it will be a while before we collect all of the data from this year, and we won't be able to really report any results until we have next year's data also...then we will need to analyze the data.

One thing to note...if you do harvest a collared deer, the collars can be easily removed from the deer with any pair of pliers. Just unscrew the two nuts down near the base of the collar. There is no need to "cut" the collar off with a knife. Please spread the word.

Were there any collared deer harvested this season that were reported?

Yes. There were quite a few deer harvested that were reported. I will post these numbers when I get them.

Here are the number of collared deer that died this past season:

Since the beginning of bow season in October, we had 18 hunter-related mortalities and zero natural mortalities. The observed mortalities included legal harvests (13), illegal harvests (4), and an unknown harvest (1). A mortality was considered a “legal harvest” if it was known to have occurred by legal methods during legal season dates. A mortality was considered an “illegal harvest” if the harvest was known to have occurred outside the legal season dates or in an area where the hunter was not authorized to hunt (i.e. safety zone or private property). We had 1 “unknown harvest” which could have occurred by legal means, however the deer was not checked in and the collar was found cut and lying in the woods, which might also imply illegality.

Of these mortalities, 8 were bucks and 10 were does. Harvested bucks ranged in age from 2.5-4.5 years-old and harvested does ranged from 2.5-6.5+ years-old, which is fairly representative of the sex and age distribution we had collared and available for harvest. Looking at the harvests by study site, 4 occurred at Barbour WMA, 6 were at Oakmulgee WMA, 4 in Marengo County, and 4 in Pickens County.

Thanks Steve
AU '87

Just curious about the percentage of collared deer that were harvested? It would be real interesting to see the numbers by age and sex.

Thanks for the info.

Right now the data are way too preliminary and the sample sizes are too small to draw any conclusions. Sorry, but I would prefer to provide more detailed information after a second year of study, and after the data have been analyzed.

Also, just to keep some of ya'll patient.
I'm sure Dr.D can't really release any of the major findings to the general public until after he has reported the findings to the various agencies and academic institutions involved in the study. That takes time ya'll, be patient.

Thanks for the updates Dr. D. I think you should collar all the does......Makes em easier to drag.

I have several of these deer on my game cameras. They are on there just about every time I check them. I have both does and bucks with both the colors of collars. I can't wait to see the data also.

Any update on this study as we approach opening day?

Sorry for not responding...I haven't been on in a while.

Not much to update at the moment. The students had 90 collars out at the end of the summer season. they worked extremely hard to get all the collars out. Now...we wait. We will be documenting mortalities, as well as collecting the movement data from the collars at the end of the season. It will still be a while after that to compile, analyze, interpret, and prepare reports.

So, I'm sorry to say, everyone is going to have to be extremely patient.

Thanks for the update Steve.

Can't wait to view them and thanks for your time and effort in doing this.

Orange collar spotted on a buck at Oakmulgee on 12/20/15. Deer got a pass.

Was it close to where 49 runs into 50? I saw one in that area last year

About a mile from there.

We have pics of #22 on our farm the last two days. Amazing all year we have no pics til now.

Sorry to say but my 13yr old son shot #8 Saturday the 23rd. He was a nice 8 point. He said he feel asleep and when he woke up and looked in the field he seen a nice rack and a heart shot standing behind a pine tree. He said he never seen the collar or ear tags because his head was behind a tree. I got on him pretty good about it. We both went from top of the mountain high to rock bottom when we seen the orange collar. He shot the deer in linden. Sorry I don't know how to post pics or I would.

Why you upset? Congrats to your boy on the kill, to my knowledge the study includes deer harvested by hunters. Will be a unique kill yall will always remember!

Post up some pics Larryj

I don't know how to post pictures. The reason I'm upset is because the land owner told us to shoot anything we wanted except a collared deer. I know what my son did wasn't against the law, but when a man gives you free range on his land you need to respect it and him! He learned a very good lesson in this.

Understood!

I saw a doe with a orange collar on hwy 10 about 3 miles east of Abbeville this morning around 515 a.m.

Here is an excerpt from an article on the qdma website about some collared deer in Alabama. I'm assuming these are the same deer......
27% – The difference between daylight and night movements of 19 bucks and 19 does on weekends after the start of rifle season in Alabama. Kevyn Wiskirchen of Auburn University tracked the GPS-collared deer on four study sites, two of which are WMAs. Though daylight movement was 27 percent less than night movements on weekends, the rates for day and night were essentially the same on weekdays during the same period. In fact, the lowest point of overall weekly deer movement rates was immediately following weekends in hunting season. The highest? Thursdays and Fridays before the hunters returned in force. Go ahead now and request vacation days from work on every Thursday this fall.

Any update on this?

How many bucks did you tag in Pickens County (Gordo) ?
Another buck showed up at my farm with ear tags. He's an 8 point. Picture is blurry so we can't see the number. We had number 22 show up last year. Was wondering he he turned into an 8 point. No collar now.

We collared a total of 11 bucks in Pickens County. Based upon the information that I have right in front of me, 5 of those animals are known to be dead. That means that there are 6 that could possibly still be alive, and some of those may have been wearing a collar that has since fallen off. WE also likely ear-tagged a few more buck fawns that were accidentally darted as does. These animals could now be what you described.

Sorry that I don't have more detailed information for you.

Steve, question were these deer tag during deer season, or before . I hunt Barber wma would or could it effect the hunt.the deer movement.

The deer were all captured and tagged several years ago, and their behavior during deer season should not have been affected in any way.

Update?

I'm pretty sure that I already did this, but below are links to the two student theses using data collected from the radio-collared deer (FYI...ADCNR funded this study).

Todd Jacobsen's thesis

Kevyn Wiskirchen's thesis

I guess we need to pass on the collars

Gotta be a good thing!!!

May I ask why you don't use Bam ??? I wouldn't use Telazol an d Xylazine if you gave it to me Just wondering why you use this Thankyou

I saw a doe with a collar in Chambers County around 93-94

What town Morris I'll send this info to my buddy in charge of that gig..

I may have missed it But why are yall using Telazol and Xylazine to dart deer Just wondering about that thanks in advance ??

thats what I asked. BAM is 1000% better than that. Rompum(Xyalzine) can, and will cause heart damage in darted deer, esp if they are agitated at all.