Magnum calibers??

For those that use them, why? I personally believe a .308 is more than enough to kill anything in alabama, having said that. I killed my first deer with a 7mm mag and watched it get knocked backwards. Thoughts?

I don't hunt with a magnum cartridge. The .257 Roberts through .308 range of cartridges work just fine for me.

Love the 7mm Rem. I wanted 1 rifle I could hunt everything in North America with. There has been a time or two I wish I had more gun but it all worked out.

Wouldn't tote one in the hills and hollers of Northeast Bama if you gave it to me.

They are better for LONG range shots. Plus everybody within 50 miles hears you when it goes boom and slides you backwards.

because i like em....I shoot a 7mmRM and a 264WM, either is worlds better than a damn 308......

I'm with Fred,I shootem cause I like em.

The knockdown by a 7mm STW is unreal, even out to 500 yards. I prefer them to go down where they are hit instead of heading down into a deep briar choked bottom.

Because I can.

As for your .308, they are fine for coyotes, bobcats, squirrels, etc, as long as you use heavy for caliber bullets and keep your shots close...within 60 yards or so.

Love my Ed Brown 300 Win Mag ! Carries like a lightweight 270.
Shoots like one also.

well said.....

This^^^^.... With all the cutovers and power lines and gas lines we have to hunt.... 300 yard shots are almost the norm in some clubs..... I shoot the 7mag for these long range shots....less drop and and compensating I have to worry about....

This plus I like shooting my 300 RUM, IT MAKES GREAT LONG DISTANCE CALLS

Not saying I didn't like them. Just thought they were overkill in most places in bama. I like most of you like to carry whatever you want or feel comfortable with. Just thought that maybe y'all had issues with smaller caliber not being enough and maybe losing a deer or something .I'll be toting a 6.8spc on a few hunts this year which I imagine will be more than sufficient to kill one.

I also have a 7-08 that I use for greenfields and shorter range shots.... I just prefer the magnum for anything 200+ yards....

I use a .308 cause I can and I like it. If you don't think it will more than adequately do the job that's you opinion. Bullet placement is what matters more than anything else.

A 308 is plenty. Ain't gonna argue that. I've killed em with a 45 gr 22-250. I just like my 7 mag.

I hunt with what I like, my first rifle ever and still my primary is my ruger 7mm remmag, gonna use my new 7-08 this season too. Sure glad I had my 7mm when I came across this guy at 300+ yards. Longest shot I've ever took, was still hunting and saw him in a cut down corn field. He ran about ten yards to the tree night and was not far in the woods, after cleaning him, he had a hole in his heart.

I don't care what anyone shoots. Shoot what you like. I figure there's more than one caliber rifle because not everyone wants to shoot the same thing. I do find it amusing that many people think that a 300 yard shot is something that only a magnum caliber is capable of. As long as most anyone can hold the crosshairs steady a 300 yard killing shot is no problem with most popular high powered deer calibers.

A 300 yard shot is no more of a challenge for a 30-06 than it is for a 7mm Rem Mag. With a 200 yard zero, in most loadings there is only about 2 more inches of drop on a 30-06 at 300 than there is on a 7 mag. Same with a 7mm 08 compared to a 7 mag. Two inches of drop has rarely caused a deer to be missed. Too little trigger time causes most misses, not caliber selection.

I disagree FurFlyin, a 2 inch drop can make a difference. Say you shoot with a 7mm at 300 yards and hit the very bottom of the heart. If you would have had a 30-06 you could have made a flesh wound. The deer would live, get ate by coyotes or possibly get an infection and die. My 7mm's scope is set at 100 yards so a 300+ yard shot took some thinking of where I needed to aim. Not all hunters are reloaders and bench shooters. But I do agree that everyone should shoot want they want and what's best for their terrain.

You just gotta decide how big of a hole you want thru your deer. I find that my .308 makes a big enough hole to suit me.

I don't do the magnum thing....

If you hit them right...ain't an issue

To me all a magnum will do is push a BIGGER bullet faster. I would have to look at the ballistics, but I would imagine a 150 grian 30-06 is running close to a 180 grain .300 mag. Like a 130 grain .270 would be close to a 150 grain .7mm.

I, like Furflyin aint got nothing against them, but I feel like I can hang neck and neck out to 300+ yards with my .270 or .243 as any magnum. Just whatever someone wants. If I did get a magnum it would be 7mm or .300 WM. Just because of shell variaty and affordabilty, when it comes to magnum calibers.

looks like a ballistic tip entrance hole.....

I'm not saying it takes a magnum caliber to kill a deer. That's obvious. I'm just saying I like having one. Again, it's all in the opinion of the owner! However when I go moose hunting, glad I don't have to buy a new rifle, I'd rather take one with a bow though. But if that doesn't work, my 7mm should. But that moose hunt is a loooong time away! I think the whole caliber thing is nothing different than the ammo debates. A lot of people but the ballistic tips, silver tips etc. but my regular soft point in 7mm rem mag have always been amazing, makes a smaller hole than Poorcountrypreachers picture. So I guess I save a little more meat with a overall more useful caliber.

Here's something to chew on. My 338 RUM has 4555 pounds of energy at the muzzle and still has 2785 at 400 yds. Yes accuracy is very important but at longer distances the more shock the more blood vessels ruptured and a bigger blood trail assuming there is an exit wound. That is unless a perfect head or neck shot can be made. I'm not bashing a 308 because I've got 2 of them and still hunt with them. But at shorter distances I use a 45-70 and the 45-70 can kill any game in north america. However it isn't ideal for long shots because it is a slow moving round. The bottom line is shoot what you want, drive what you want, eat what you want.its personal preference.

180 grain premium bullet out of an ought 6 will kill any bull moose that walks the face of the earth deader than a hammer.

There is no doubt about that with the advances in todays premium bullets. With the popularity of .30 cal. it probably has a bigger selection of quality bullets than any other. But when I started using a 7mm Rem the people I knew living in Alaska swore by that cal. When we tested bullets back then it consisted of stacking up Sears and Roebuck catalogs and shooting into them. Then you could see what penetrated best and weigh the bullets for weight retention. I think things have changed a little. The .284 bullets changed also so there was no need for me to get another cal.

Bullet selection and confidence/accuracy in your rifle has much more to do with it than caliber size. Put the "right" bullet in the "right" place, and magnum/non-magnum doesn't matter. I've probably helped trail just as many deer shot with magnums as I have non-magnums...possibly because the folks with magnums were willing to take more marginal shots due to thinking that the "magnum" delivered greater killing power. Here's a good article for all to read....

http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_bullet_killing_power.htm

whats the biggest moose you have killed in Alabama and did you weight it on accurate scales??

Yea it's hard to find accurate scales for those alabama Moose!

I think you two are inadvertently making a case against magnums in Alabama. No Moose, no magnum.

I killed a 990 lb heifer with a broke leg, does that count? Put one in her gourd.

How far of a shot was it!? Lol

I like magnums because of human error. The biggest buck I have ever taken I gut shot because of human error. He ran about 200 yds before dieing. If I would have been shooting a non magnum I believe he would have made it to the river and I would have lost him. But I am shooting a 270wsm now instead of my 300rum.

A lot of hunters feel that a magnum makes up for human error, nothing could be farther from the truth IMHO. This type of thinking tends to lead to poor shots being made by the hunter thinking that the larger caliber will compensate.

In my experience magnum rounds leads to increased human error. This is only based on my first hand knowledge. That said, I do carry a 7mm win mag to Colorado.

You are correct, Sir. I used to hunt with a guy that toted a .300 mag. in the Jackson Co. mountains. He always said he could shoot them anywhere and kill em. Most times he either wounded them or clean missed. He rarely killed one with a well placed shot in the "kill zone". He could talk a mean game though.

That's a big Negative Ghostrider. IMHO

only calibre I've ever shot deer with that made up for human error was a 25/06. Loaded with 100gr Hornady bombs at 3400fps it would stop a guy shot deer in his tracks, easy finish off shot. Done it twice in over 100 kills with that rifle. You did NOT want to be the one to guy that deer either.......

Most magnums won't do this because you are shooting a heavy, slow expanding bullet that actually does less damage that a 270/130 combo. Match yer bullet type and weight to the game and distance for best results.

or just shoot a Nosler Partition.....

I've killed deer with a 243 up to a 300 ultra mag. they all kill deer just fine. the 243 is my go to rifle.

I shot a 7mm stw with partitions for one season and under 150yds you couldn't tell the difference between the entrance and exit hole, way to much gun for a typical oat patch

Right company; wrong bullet if you want him DRT.

You CANNOT kill a deer with anything less than a 300 win mag. Y'all just ask my buddy and he will tell y'all all about it. All you have to do is hit the deer and it will be dead rite where it was standing. BUT last season he shot at 3 deer. Killed a doe at 60 yds in a green field, shot at a 6pt, hit it and lost it. I told him he had to have missed it. He argued he hit it. Than I reminded him of his statement he made. Yes he shut up. Third deer he just missed because he said he flinched. He cannot shoot the gun to sight it in, more than 3-4 shots his shoulder is killin him. He sure catches alot of heck from us about that gun. I have a 7mag BLR that is just deadly on deer, but I don't like the way it destroys so much meat. I have a bad habit of takin shoulders out and it make a big ole mess.

you mean an Accubond??????

350 inches away

I'd say that counted......

Trying a 7 mag this year. I was surprised by the lack of recoil. Maybe it's just my rifle.

What rifle did you get?

7mm isn't bad on recoil if you stick to 140 grains or less.

I get the arguments about how magnums increase the human factor....bad shot placement is bad shot placement. Period. Don't matter if is is with a .22LR or a .300 Mag. I also understand that the foot pounds you get with the magnums helps with bad shot placement. But, the bottom line is if you make a bad shot DO NO FREAKING PUSH THE DEER!!!!!!! Give them time, and go get your dead deer.

If skinnies can kill elephants and Cape buffalo with a bow or spear .....I think a .270 should be able to handle a deer without an issue

Just my thoughts

Test Barrel (24") Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
2940/2687 2747/2345 2562/2040 2384/1767 2214/1523 2050/1307


Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
- 1.50 1.60 0.00 -6.90 -19.80 -39.90

this is for the 270 Win 140 gr InterLock® BTSP

very capable out to 300. especially when you shoot as good as me and shooters

But the point is some of the bad shots are caused by the shooter flinching, and anticipating recoil of the magnum.

i have even saw some close their eyes before pulling the trigger .

You guys are taking me the wrong way. I think that the vast majority of "human factor" bad shot placement is due to folks not having enough trigger time (me included). When you couple that with the recoil of a magnum rifle, you are setting the stage for the shooter to just in general pull the shot, mess the shot up, etc.

I know I should shoot more than I do. I wish I had the time. That said, I don't want to compound my already lack of shooting frequency by having a gun that knocks the piss out of me, therefore making me do something stupid...like close my eyes, etc. Which is why I use just a plain old 270 Win. I've killed deer out west and in Canada with it. No matter the size of the deer (or animal, for that matter), the result is still the same: you perforate their lungs, they ain't going far....and are gonna bleed plenty

I believe if you can handle the recoil and precisely aim a 3.5" 12 gauge turkey load you can do the same with a rifle. My 300 rum has a little thump to it but my turkey thumper rattles my teeth pretty good!

An older 700 bdl

The recoil pad on my 700 xcr 338rum tames the felt recoil to about a 12 ga.

Too many people rely on a good recoil pad. Not enough people learn the fundamentals of how to actually firmly hold a gun to your shoulder so that you don't have to worry as much about recoil. First gun was an old remmy semi in 30-06. That thing would beat the tar out of you if it wasn't held right. But by the time I was 13, I could take a nanner and her yerlin in two consecutive shots and it had no recoil pad. Learn how to tame your cannon before you bring ethical harvest into play.

Do what??? Recoil pads are there for a reason not for looks. I guess too many rely on muzzle brakes also ( which i will not have on any of my rifles) Yes it matters how you hold a rifle but recoil is recoil.

proper holding can reduce "felt" recoil......

Ballistic Gel. One of these is not like the others.
257 Weatherby
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg6kcw6o9kk
270 Winn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goYr5WB98P0
308 Rem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znrBbdxngIk

Stock design and fit has something to do with felt recoil too. Why put a muzzle brake on one to soften recoil, doesn't that reduce the velocity enough that you lose the benefits of a magnum caliber. I've seen around 200 fps loss and that is significant from what I've read.

Percussion from a muzzle brake is something not to fun either.

no one is doubting that. But so can muzzle brakes, recoil pads, and Caliner.

I hate muzzle brakes, and refuse to shoot a rifle with one or be near anyone else shooting one.

I thank I'm gonna get me a .950 JDJ to hunt deer with.

No recoil pads or brakes allowed

Magnum condoms & rifle here

If you want a big magnum and shoot it well then no harm, no foul. But here are just a few random observations from my experiences with some people I've known who use them. Your mileage may vary.

1. I have never understood the line of thinking that goes, "well I got a 300 ultra mag because one day I might go on an elk hunt and I can use it for that too". Me, I pick a caliber for what I'm going to do with it all the time not what I might do with it once 15 years from now. I also find it hard to believe that there are very many people in Alabama that can afford to go out west on a elk hunt yet can't afford at least two rifles, one for deer and one for elk. That's a pretty narrow financial category right there.

2. I have listened to many friends, family and acquaintances talk to me about how little the bullet from their new uber mag drops at 400 yards and the amount of kinetic energy it still has at 400 yards. And all the while I'm listening to them talk I'm thinking (because I know first hand) you have never even taken a single practice shot at 400 yards in your life. So what good is all that stuff going to do you?

3. I have seen people have bullet performance issues on our small southern deer from one end of the spectrum to the other with big stomper magnums. Many of the premium bullets designed tougher for magnum velocities and big game like elk or moose just strip through the rib cages of 150 pound whitetails without much expansion. On the other hand at close range were the velocity of these magnum bullets is still very high a standard cup and core lead bullet can over expand and fragment terribly. I've seen deer shot broadside behind the shoulder at 70 yards have fragments of the bullet perforate the stomach and bowels. Also seen standard soft lead bullets or ballistic tips out of these magnums destroy half the edible meat on an angled shot as well.

4. There was a time when there were not many bullet options out there. If you wanted to do more harm or get deeper penetration all you could do was use a bigger bullet; push it faster; or both. But with the wide variety of bullet options available out there today I can take a 7mm-08, 270, 308 or 30-06 and make any kind of wound channel through a deer that you desire.

5. I have gone to the family gravel pit to shoot with people who had such a wicked recoil induced flinch it was comical. Seen some that were jerking their whole head out from behind the scope for fear of getting eye gouged. They would have been so much better off with a milder recoiling rifle. But noooo, a 7mm-08 is a woman's rifle. They wanted a manly gun. They did a lot of manly missing and gut shooting too.

6. To me big magnums are good for one thing. To hurl really heavy big bullets faster than standard calibers can in order to kill really big animals or shoot things at extreme ranges. For deer, out to 300 yards, I just don't see the need.

What the heck is overkill?

Is that like more deader?

A magnum caliber in the Alabama woods is like a TV on your wedding night. NOT NEEDED!!
Its all in shot placement.

Where is a magnum caliber needed then?

I didn't need a tv on my wedding night, but i had one in the room i stayed in, and was there if i wanted to watch it.

horsechitt!

In the Alabama woods when ya hit'em in the right place with anything from a .223 and up and they are DEAD! If I'm wrong then prove it but you know I'm not. Deer are thin skinned, light boned game animals not 'dangerous' game with heavy muscle and heavy bones like a mature bull elk or the big bears.
But, if shooting a BIG magnum caliber makes you feel more macho then by all means load that heavy, hard kicking, muzzle blasting mother up and fire away!! That way you can tell your buddies you shoot a "fill in the blank" magnum when you deer hunt.
Dead is dead when ya hit'em in the right place, no horsechitt!!

I watched Bama get beat by Hawaii on my wedding night.

My 270WSM reaches across clearcuts. And I like that.

yeah but i don't have wait on the RIGHT shot . i can burn him from any angle , try it with a 233 or a 243 , ect . see where you get . lol

Fixed it for you.

What about GA or MS woods? Can I shoot one in MT? and since you are the expert, just how far am i shooting in these here AL woods? What kind of cover am I hunting in? What kind of exit wound am I getting with my .223 when I shoot one in the boiler room at 400 yards, and he runs 75 yards into a head high clear cut and dies? And why wouldn't I want to shoot a rifle that pushes the exact same bullet as a non-magnum, faster, flatter, with more energy, and lest wind drift?

If you hit any animal in the right place, and from a close enough distance, with anything from a .223 and up you will kill it. Elk and big bears even. No horeschit!!!

I shoot a magnum, and will continue to do so, but I have to admit that I am pretty macho, and make a distinct metal clinking sound as I walk.

how you get it will be marginal ? i allow that ever body has common sense . the right spot he was taking about with a 223 is not the same spot with a 7mag

you guys that say any gun will do try this with your little 223 243 ect .. next time you got a nice buck quartering away and you got to put that bullet just in front of hind quarter or through the hind quarter to get to the sweet spot . pull the trigger and see how it works out .

Bingo!!!

Red Monkey - That's not really why many people use magnum calibers. Of course if hit reasonable with most any caliber they are dead. Most people are aiming for more forgiveness, and the ability to anchor a deer on the spot when hit either at long range or slightly off from a CNS shot. If you are adjacent to a thicket and they run 80 yds you very well could lose a deer.

I've only killed deer with a 30-06 before, and I've never lost a deer. But I've ALMOST lost a deer after lung shots twice. They ran into some really thick stuff and I nearly lost the trail. It was simply a matter of the distance they ran, even though seconds after they sent out of sight they were dead.

I bought a 7mm mag and will try it out this year to see if (with proper bullet) it results in better blood and/or shorter trails (or DRT). Shoulder shots are always DRT with any centerfire but sometimes you don't get that option.

I disagree with this.

Like you say you have to damage the CNS for something to fall in its tracks. There are plenty of centerfire calibers, and bullets, that don't have enough energy to reliably do what you say. Plus you have to figure distance into this statement also.

I'm going to agree with monkey as I'm taking his post at face value.....in the "woods". In the woods to me means just that, a shot over 100yds would be very rare. Woods to me , does not mean what used to be woods and is now a pine clear cut in LA. A clear cut you can shoot 400 yards ain't woods. But if ya wanta tote a .50 cal in the "woods" have at it.

I'll agree with you - if you miss the spine on a high shoulder shot and don't have enough energy to "shock it", then yeah a smaller caliber won't drop it. I guess I was referring to successful high shoulder/base of neck spine shots.

If we are using the term "woods" to assume thick cover and limiting shots to 100 yards (which is not how I use the term), I still fail to see where more power is a bad thing. I want a bullet to penetrate through a deer every time, especially in thick cover so I have a nice obvious blood trail to follow should I need it. More power equals better penetration.

I spend thousands to hunt deer each year, why would I want to limit myself when it comes to the capabilities of the rifle I am carrying? My magnum has killed them from less than 10 yards to a really long ways.

A high shoulder shot is tough for them to shake off

dang right. That high shoulder is sorta my sweet spot. If I could find a deal on a 7mm or a .300 wm, I wouldn't mind having one just to have and maybe hunt with some.

I'm not taking that shot, regardless of the caliber rifle I'm toting.

I hear ya DW. I went from a 270 win to a 300 RUM, and it is incredible how much harder the 300 hits them in comparison.

I killed more than my fair share with my 270, and dropped most of them with shoulder shots, but the 300 just flat out puts them down like a ton of bricks when you put it in the shoulder.

I watched my brother in law drop a 300 lb nebraska whitetail in his tracks at over 300 yards with a little ol .243. I'm pretty sure it's plenty for these pine goats.

I watched a guy drop a 1,200lb steer with a 22lr.

In fact, the rancher we were hunting on has a barn full of mule deer antlers and all were killed with a.243.

I don't own a smaller caliber so I'm not biased. I've had a.300 rum and it was a beast. ...... that kicked and cost $4 a round to shoot.

I never killed a deer more dead with it than any other rifle I own.

Smaller calibers loaded with the right bullet ate just as deadly on any angle as any other caliber.

That Berger blowed through both shoulders and jello the vitals. I was impressed.

I've never been in any woods I could shoot 300 - 400yds and beyond, MOF 100 is about as far as I've ever shot one in the "woods". And that has only happened twice and it was really large, mature hardwoods. What is your definition of "woods"? And what is the magnum limit for deer in woods, 300 mag, 338, 458, bigger?

There is nothing wrong with small or non-magnum calibers. I started off with a 257 Roberts, moved to a 270 win, then to a 300 Rum. and now a 264 win mag as my primary deer rifles, and have never had a trouble with not killing them; however my range and DRT shots have increased with the caliber I shoot. You can kill anything with any caliber under the right circumstances.

I prefer to carry a magnum as I feel it increases the circumstance under which I can make a kill. I spend a lot of money, and loose a lot of sleep every year to kill deer and want to be as effective as possible. $4/round ammo doesn't bother me, as that isn't even a drop in the bucket compared to everything else it takes to deer hunt.

To say that something isn't needed or overkill is comical to me, as I can't see where having more power is ever a hindrance.

Folks say it is macho or an expression of manliness to carry a magnum. I will counter that and say there are a lot of folks who shoot small calibers to drag about their marksmanship abilities

Edit: Oh yeah, and the guy I watched drop the 1,200 lb steer with the 22lr, had a freezer full of really good steaks

i will ever day of the week and twice on sunday .

I refer to the "woods" as a place, where deer live and I hunt. To me that can be a clear cut, hardwood bottom, or pine plantation. I refer to the woods much like I would use the term city, which could be a park, neighborhood, industrial park, etc...

As far as magnum limit, I never said there was one. Shoot what you like. There are some on this board who shoot 338 Lapua Mags, and I say good for them. I'm certainly not going to say they are not needed, as their deer are just as dead as mine.

OK, woods is all inclusive to you, any terra. When I'm in a bean field in the "woods" where I have 400yd+ shots I'll break out the 7mm short mag with a hubble telescope on top. When I'm in the "woods" woods I'll tote a .308 bush hog.

2dogs, I used to carry two rifles with me so I could do what you do. Now I am old and fat and just carry the one that will do it all. I do carry my Contender in my pack 100% of the time, and shoot it almost exclusively out to 200 yards or so, if I have enough light to see through the scope.

Um, not necessarily. Depends on the bullet. The faster you drive bullets the more they expand on impact. I have seen standard cup and core lead bullets or ballistic tips over expand and even fragment badly from magnum calibers on close range shots. I've seen a 170 pound buck shot behind the shoulder at 60 yards with a 300 WSM and the bullet did not exit.

I can take a standard caliber like a 7mm-08 or a 30-06 and make any kind of would channel you want through a deer just by varying the type of bullet. Want to shoot one in the ass and have it come out their nose then use a Barnes TSX. Or if you are one of the energy dump aficionados use a ballistic tip and explode his insides (although I personally don't like them).

I have seen people buy a big stomper mag and have the overexpansion problem I spoke of above. So they switched and started using a tougher constructed premium bullet. But to my eyes those tougher bullets didn't do any more damage at the magnum velocities than a lighter constructed bullet did at standard velocities. More flinch inducing recoil; 68 dollar a box ammo; and at the end of the day they weren't doing anything to a deer that I couldn't have done with a 308.

I don't hunt bean fields, I hunt woods. That 7mm short mag is a elk killer. I did take it to a plot one PM , shot a doe behind the ear, just about cut her head clean off. The "Bush Hog" might have left a larger piece of skin attached.

If a shoulder shot were all you could get then a magnum would be preferable and a 30 caliber one or larger. If you want to neck shoot with a 223 then by all means knock yourself out.

Sorta like a sling blade, "that second whack plum near took his head off" UMMM... I reckon..

The context in which I was speaking (or typing :)) was comparing magnum to non-magnum calibers shooting the same bullet. So regardless of the bullet, if I am shooting a 165 grain whatever in a 30-06 and the same bullet in a 300 RUM, the Rum will offer more penetration. True you can expect more expansion at higher velocities, but the bullet will also have more energy behind it to make a bigger and deeper hole if it doesn't pass all the way through the deer. Bullet construction is very important and I agree you can find a bullet to do whatever you want.

For the sake of poops and giggles, I can also hand load my RUM to 30-06 velocities. Lets see you load a 30-06 to RUM velocities

I shot a doe between the eyes once at about 60 yards with my RUM. It sounded like you had a hand full of twigs and snapped them all at once. I couldn't really believe I heard it, but it was kind of creepy. Her head looked like it had been put in a vice when she hit the ground.

I tend to be more concerned with the weight of the rifle. I spend a lot of time carrying it. If I were buying one just for long range the .300 WSM is a good round.