Westervelt Lease News

Got a friend who leases a track from them that showed me a letter that he got from them at the end of last week. Starting immediately they are banning all baiting, supplemental feeding, mineral sites, etc. on all of their properties due to CWD being found within the state.

A private, land owning company, stepping up and doing what the state hasn't done, so far.

Interesting.

Wonder how soon the other big land owning corporations in the state will do the same?

Here is a PIC of the letter that someone posted on FB.

Wow!

No way to stop the spread just like Rona virus. It's going to happen. When it does...... less deer equal less demand for leases equal less money for said lease. They are just trying to protect their income.

David

but.....I thought they were a timber company.

That is what they say if you have a complaint about timing of timber harvest

How do you remove a long standing mineral site?

There’ll be some leases available this and next year. They’ll be some just give them up but think how many are going to try to get away with baiting and will get caught. Start saving money!!! Going to be prime land coming in the next couple of years!!

600000 acres X $10 per acre......... (conservative) They can add 3000 acres per year to their land total with the money from the leases, and they still can cut the trees.

I wonder how they plan to enforce that? I have existing mineral sites. Guess the state will probably follow suit?

$10/acre??????? You'd better check again. Avg is prob going to be a lot closer to $15/acre.

Yeah I don't think mine is $10. I need to find a private land owner.

The DCNR isn't going to ban baiting (or minerals) statewide.

Too much money involved for them through the "privilege license." They're not going to give up that gravy now that it's available. They already sold their biological-disease risk principles about baiting for the money, anyway.

The other thing is the baiting "privilege license" was done through the Legislature. The department is not going to buck the legislators unless there's a clear reason to, such as CWD. And then they can point to the CWD management plan for any bans or restrictions in specific areas.

Westervelt is doing what can be done by anyone - making their own decision.


Prohibiting baiting, feeding or minerals won't stop CWD, though.

LOL, you dont know much about leasing land and lease prices do you?????? Most good private stuff starts at timber company rates and goes up from there.

I guess that worked out pretty good if you're their neighbor.......

The state is not giving up the 15 dollar baiting permit.

Depends. I’ve got really good land for Winston county and I’m at or below timber company prices. Put a lot of effort into finding the right landowner. My landowner and I share information and talk twice a month at least. I put more effort into maintaining that relationship than I ever did finding clubs or timber land but it’s worth it

That was kind of my point. Most good private land leases are relationship driven. If he is looking for private land that is just listed out on the open market, if it is even remotely decent, it's going to be high as giraffe ---sy. Take a look at the rates on the stuff that Tutt Land leases for private individuals, look at what the AU and Power Leases go for every year, ever seen a really good deal on any leases listed on AFOA??? As much trouble as he has had with his lease, you think that if he knew a private landowner that would lease to him, he wouldnt already be doing it?????

What makes you think that? If I am willing to buy a tractor, trailer, and a garage full of implements, plus spend $3K a year over my dues, why would leasing land that costs more than what my lease is at now bother me? What kind of club could I get into with a tractor, a good work ethic, and $3K + a year in dues? I realize I am not 5 Star Plantation $, but I would be an asset to any club anywhere in my area.

This rule change won't phase me a bit. Rather than spending money on feed, I will invest it in better soil tests, and crops. I am not going to grow monster bucks feeding corn all year anyway. More challenging will be the mineral side, but it doesn't sound like it said no salt.

What exactly do you think a mineral site is?🤔

I hope this does free up some in my area, I have been looking since I moved to AL, I figure some people will just give them up.....on the other hand, when they ban it on their properties and a lessee continues to do it and gets caught, I guess they will terminate the lease immediately.....

Well should be some good deals on slightly used feeders coming soon

Exactly, if I had to guess a lot of folks will try to get away with it and them companies are going to be running folks off with no refund and turn right around and lease it again. Go ahead and save the Westervelt search page, the getting is fiddin to get good.

No surprise. They were talking about this back when they started having meetings talking about CWD. What a shame.

LOL... they're still trying to locate the first deer that CWD actually killed.


It's hoax... even more so than the Corona virus.

I for one am glad to see westervelt step up and do the right thing. I hope the state follows suit.

I haven't checked it since the bait law came out, but alabama differentiated between mineral and salt licks. You could put out white salt blocks and hunt over them, but not the brown mineral ones.

Since the law made a distinction between the two, so am I.

I've got news for you. A private land owning company, like Westervelt, can define it however they see fit, regardless of how the state differentiates it.

They just did that very thing with the overall bait permit made legal by the state legislature.

I would say, keeping within the context of their letter, that any mineral site will be prohibited, including salt.

Their "intent" is to lessen the concentration of deer within a close proximity to each other.

It makes no difference if the mineral is white or brown, they concentrate close to one another in the use of the site where it is distributed.

That's just the way I see it.

By the way, I have never stated that I agree with or disagree with what they are doing or whether I think it will help or not.

I just shared the letter information.

Doesn’t matter to me. I’ve killed a pile of them without corn. Just hope the doe groups get the message about not congregating together and they don’t feed too close to each other in the food plots. 🤣

Do you think they'll ban food plots too??

Maybe the deer should just wear masks and social distance.

So all those west and midwest states have been lying since 1997....... I had no idea.


David

They already do to some extent. They tell you where and how much you can plant. You can't just go clear a spot and plant, or burn, or spray.

Actually, that is not 100% correct. They give you area's or fields that they won't disturb. You can go plant log decks and logging roads all you want. Met my new lease manager last fall, and he told me I should clear off this one side of the road opposite a field and plant it. That means they may come in there later and log the area and disturb it. My club map on their site lists 7 greenfields. I have 24. He even gave me suggestions about other ways to plant things and increase my planted acreage. I think they number I saw was they would give you 1%. Even with 24 fields, I am probably just bumping the 1% number.

When they cut mine this year, I am going to try to get the loggers to cut it or run a few skidder roads that are long and go north south so I can plant them. My biggest problem is stumps. Even our skid steer guy has a tough time with some of them, and he's got a 90+ hp machine. After about 3 years, he can blaze thru them.

Need to outlaw oak trees and definitely fruit trees.
No hunting over any food source that congregates deer. They won’t get sick if they congregate and you’re not hunting them (only if you’re locked and loaded).
But green fields are allowed….
Dig up all mineral sites (natural and man made).
If you have a naturally occurring mineral site hazmat needs to be called in for removal.
Oh yeah, all mud puddles and water sources smaller than 1/8 acre in size must be drained and/or eliminated.

I’m sure a lot of their food plots are pretty small areas that concentrate deer if that becomes the definition folks start using……I’d bet if they banned food plots they would see an even bigger reaction from their lease holders too than the one they’re likely about to see if the state doesn’t follow suite……Interesting move…..Someone must have a lot of expendable income in which to make a statement with and/or either they figure it wont matter…….someone will lease it…..I’m guessing whoever it was that pulled that trigger isnt riding the “Chuck Wagon”… …They definitely just stirred the pot with that one….Whatever happened to go old fashioned political cartoons??

Did you not see where I said “to some extent?” Then you go into 2 paragraphs explaining exactly “to some extent.” You still have a manager telling you what you can and can’t do. I never said they tell you you can’t l, I said they limit you.

And good luck with getting those loggers to do what you want.

Things like this are why I don’t do the club thing anymore. Got tired of paying 2 grand and up to watch average deer and deal with too many people. Throw in now this that’s not backed up with anything to justify it. I love being in the woods as much as anyone but I carry mine out of state now or hunt my land however I want. It won’t ever happen but would be nice to see them timber companies not get that lease money

Let’s put this into a sports theory.

Alabama season tickets. At one point there were 40,000 people in the waiting list with ticket prices going up every year.
They just built new sky boxes that sold for millions. They thought it would take a few years to sell them. It took months.

Same thing will happen to these leases.

To make this apples to apples those leases would need to produce record book bucks every other year, much like Alabama wins it all every other year. 130” deer and under ain’t gonna cut it

There was a waiting list when Shula was there too

Cwd cannot be stopped. It would just have to run its course. As someone stated earlier about mineral sites can’t eliminate those and it’s the same as a green field or a corn feeder. Just more stupidity. Just curious do they have documentation that deer 100% transmit this from corn feeders, mineral sites or green fields also they group up away from these places. I would guess they don’t which maybe I’m wrong. I know it’s their land but lease holders might should ask them to show proof of this documentation or peer reviewed studies on this issue just to see the response. I’m sure the response would be because we said so. U guys dealing with them should just tell them it will only take 2 weeks to slow the curve then it should be fine to start feeding again

Hunters want land. Any available leases will be snapped up.

It's the same reason Daiwa now has a $950 fishing reel. They know people will buy it, just like the however-many thousand dollar Garmin LiveScope and $2,000 shotguns and $4,500 rifles topped with a $2,500 scope on $150 or more rings-bases.

There's a market. It's not for everyone. Some hunters wouldn't pay the prices for whatever Westervelt leases come up, or private landowner prices. They'll hunt friends' land or public land or crappy land or quit. And some others will plunk down whatever the price is to get a lease.

Westervelt knows this. St. Joe knows or knew this. It's just simple supply and demand with a variety of price points. All of the literal decades-old carping of "It's a rich man's ..." whatever hasn't killed anything yet and never will. Someone will pay it.

If other companies start doing the same then its gonna cause a big ruckus amongst hunters about private lands getting to bait while public and leased dont......

What Clem said. If you don’t believe it. Let your lease go, you will never get it back. It’s gone forever!

If hunters get in a twist because they can't bait on leased-public lands, find some new land to lease. Otherwise, be quiet.

That's the agreement you signed. It doesn't matter what private landowners do or the DCNR does with WMA-public lands. The only thing that matters in that situation is what's in the contract you agreed to and the landowner-lessor says.

Just curious, with as many of us who hunt Westervelt property has anyone else received one of these letters?

If you havent gotten the notification yet, it is coming. They didnt agree with the baiting decision to start with but went along with it when the state passed it. There was and is, no sound biological reasoning to allow baiting of deer. Political and monetary reasons yes, but biological (here in the SE United States), no. This private company made the decision to go back to the way it was and the way they had managed their property for the past 100 or so years or however long Gulf States Paper has been in business. It's their land, they can manage it however they want. If people dont like their decision, they can drop the lease and go find somewhere else to hunt. Rest assured, in today's market, it'll be leased to someone else before you hang up the phone or put your letter in the mail.

One of the guys in my club got one yesterday.

Oh you mean the states that it's "existed in" for 40 years and they still see zero impact from it? Those Midwest states? 🤣

Please site the source where they confirm it to have killed, a whitetail, mule deer, elk... or anything for that matter.

And you're damn right they've been lying. I'm sure you believe everything the media tells you too.

EHD knowingly kills hundreds of 1000s of animals each year but you dont see anyone trying to stop that.

CWD is laughable. And these states are going to use it to further manipulate your God given rights as a hunter. And if you don't see it... you're Hellen Keller blind.

Sure did, and I also saw where you said I couldn't just go plant an area and you are wrong. I can. I have 17 just such area's on my lease that no one asked permission to plant. We might have to do some work to make them happen, but none the less, they are planted.

And when they cut me, if you think I will only add the 2 fields they are giving me and that's it, you are also wrong. But until I see what it looks like, I won't know how many.

As for the loggers, one thing is certain, if I listen to you and don't ask, then the answer is for sure a no. Perhaps it costs me a few cases of beer, or some BBQ or something, but I bet they will want to help out a semi senior citizen who is out there on his subcompact tractor trying to create a deer hunting utopia......

https://www.realtree.com/brow-tines-and-backstrap/has-cwd-ever-actually-killed-a-deer#:~:text=%E2%80%9CI%20put%20it%20to%20you,actually%20dying%20of%20the%20disease.

Article did say more deer die from other shucks due to the disease causing an animal to become weak. You know kind of like AIDS does people. Doesn't really matter if the prion causes the deer to die or it dies from a weak state, it is still a dead deer.......

I said this in another thread, but it is a hoax...just like covid....I agree with whoever said that above

It's not any different than your employer forcing you to get a vaccine or wear a mask. Either comply or hit the road. There's not really any recourse on your end.

The State saw how easy it was to manipulate people with covid and now the AWFF is trying it with CWD. It's not some big secret. Go listen to them talk about it on any social media outlet. It's hilarious, but it's even funnier that some folks are so stupid that they actually buy it(just like covid) All this looks like is a private company buying a popular a narrative that the state has put out.

The world we live in now is simply one big façade. It's almost like I am watching a terrible soap opera. Everyone acting like the narrative makes sense when everyone knows it really doesn't



Kill deer so they don't die of CWD
Wear a cloth mask to prevent the spread of covid
Stop artificially feeding deer to spread them out even though they get over there under the ole oak tree and spit, pee, jizz, and crap all over each other because they are animals

Talked with my lease manager about it today. There will be no baiting or supplemental feeding on their property. I’m perfectly fine with it. We never baited but we did feed in off season. Just have to plant more summer fields now. Some of you act like you can’t hunt without corn. I’ve killed em for many years before all this baiting crap started. People don’t wanna learn to hunt. They just wanna sit over a pile of corn and shoot deer. That ain’t hunting.

Agree....

Sure but while this is a silly argument, by the time Shula was there Alabama still had the most in the nation in national championships, bowl appearances, bowl wins and were 3rd overall in total wins. I’m in complete agreement with you all these properties will be leased, heck I personally will lease whichever ones I can get my hands on, but my point is that I believe once hunters see the rules are different on private land vs timber land the demand will eventually change, therefore changing prices. I also believe they are nearing the breaking point on cost for average joes. They’ll try to push it higher and a bunch of good uns with more money than sense will go pay $25-$35/acre to shoot dinks.

Ok……..

They will just go sit on a green field then.

How will they police this on all the properties. Send people in weekly to walk the property or fly helicopters over to scan the area. Seems it would be a huge inconvenience to do it

Not quite the same as hunting over corn IMO.

When did Fauci go to work for the DNR? Are they going to impose a 6 foot rule for deer? Will we have to shoot all deer standing within a certain distance of each other? 🙄

No difference. None..

I agree. Deer have to have greens.

Or sitting by a dropping oak or watching a patch of kudzu or honeysuckle. Food is food does not matter how it got there, if your hunting it it is because deer are drawn to it to eat.find it, plant it, dump it on the ground they are coming for the same reason.different means to the same end.

I will just never be convinced that killing off a 1/4 acre or more of dirt, tilling up, fertilizing, planting and liming for months of grazing nutrition for multiple species is ever the same as taking 5 minutes to dump a bag of corn out. Never will come close in my mind

What about if we increase the size of the corn pile??

Yes Planting a green feild takes more time and effort than dumping a bag of corn out but it doesn't take any more skill to hunt one or the other.

Ours was received yesterday

Green field is way more beneficial though. Especially if you get it limed properly and plant something the deer like.

Hahaha, you got me there

it doesnt take any significant amount of skill to kill deer period. Let's see, walk the roads, woods and fields looking for sign, check wind, figure out where deer is most likely to come from, have enough patience to wait until conditions are right, ease in, sit until he walks out or by, and pull the trigger or release. It is honestly that simple. I hunt big woods, pine thickets, creek bottoms, roads, and fields. I hunt from the ground, from climbers, from Loc ons, ladder stands, tripods, and shooting houses. Not a single one of those locations or methods requires any more "skill" than the other in order to kill a deer. I just laugh when someone says "it takes more skill to kill a deer in the woods than it does from a field". It absolutely does not. All it takes to kill deer is patience, time on the stand, a little effort and hunting smart. With a field, you put in the effort liming, planting and fertilizing. In the woods, the effort consists of finding the sign and hanging a stand.

The only real skill involved in killing a deer is marksmanship which judging from what I see from people shooting off benches with sandbag rests, anytime I go to the range, is a skill that very few people have. If I had a dollar for every person I've seen that hits the range to check their scope (generally less than a week before the season starts) and puts 5 shots all over an 8" pie plate at 100 yds and says "yep, this baby is still on, lets go hunting", I'd be pretty rich fellow.

Ok so maybe a dumb question and it could have been answered …..who is going to check to see if you have corn out? What happens if you are caught?

Drone, timber guys, biologists. Heck, hire a helicopter for an afternoon and you can check multiple counties of owned properties if you are just going from one parcel to the next. Wouldnt cost much to do it that way. Put a cell cam up on your entrance roads and you'll be surprised at how often you'll see timber trucks coming in to check roads, culverts, cogon grass spots, tree growth, looking for beetles, etc. Most timber companies do not play around with lease violations (especially with the lease market like it currently is) and if they took the time to send a formal letter, right or wrong, they are serious about it. I doubt they will send your lease manager out to look your place over on foot but I'm betting that they will just pull the lease, no questions asked, if any of "their people" see any evidence of feeding. Areas that are continually baited are blatantly evident, even a month or more after the bait is gone, and to even a casual observer.

Unless you are on the ground with a recurve or spear...STFU. None of it's "hunting".

I hope they ban all doe harvests on these leases. That would really protect the herd.

I heard that if found within violation they were just going to go up on your lease each year. Oh wait.

Better start doing away with the licking branches too.

Also that NOSEY neighbor whose been eying your lease for 10 years 🤣 Sumbitch gonna be flying drones all year long 😅😅😅 But seriously i know some low down bastages who would actually do that smh

If the stuff I transmitted through saliva, I guess the water hole is not safe either.

2 weeks to stop the spread

This is absolutely fact. Those clowns would be first in line, probably even offer to help you move your stands and stuff off.

As for the whole Westervelt bait prohibition, I really dont know how i feel about it either way. My gut tells me it has less to do with CWD and more to do with their core beliefs as land resource managers. Either way they are the landowners and they can make the rules as they see fit. They really don't have to worry about the property being leased or not, BECAUSE IT WILL. My .02

I am more concerned about what happens if you have a rogue member and they (Westervelt) find it. I think the people running clubs will have to police the property to make sure that you don't have a member cheating. And you will probably have to have a zero tolerance policy.

I have been putting out minerals for 4 years, so its not like I won't have activity on those sites for a number of years forward. So if they come out and happen to come across them, they will see activity. I freshened all mine up in February.

You silly

I wonder how many people will be willing to pay the same club / lease money to hunt straight pine plantations when they ban food plots. Most pine plantations become pretty unhuntable 3 years after clearcut and re plant. Sure, road crossings and DMZ offer some promise, but eliminating food plots seriously changes the game in a pine environment.

Well I just signed our lease, and based on the language, I don't see that yet. I could see them going to requiring a food plot to be a certain size to limit concentration of deer. If your lease is like mine, it has long established mineral sites, so those will still be used, and mine are already being used based upon what I saw today.

There is no way to limit them coming in contact with each other.

What it will do is force people who feed protein to look at other ways to improve their deer herd. The state biologist I talk to says none of this will impact my deer herd, like getting on a planting rotation that is high in protein.

You could always plant corn, and then run in and bush hog it. I didn't see any language that would prevent that.

I don’t have a dog in this hunt as I lease from a private individual, I heard about this Westervelt situation a few weeks ago from a friend who had spoken with one of the state wildlife biologist. He also said that the same biologist stated that if this doesn’t help slow the spread that his opinion was that they needed to eradicate all deer. Personally I think they are doing more harm than good since the prions will survive in the ground and deer aren’t going to practice social distancing.

I can't see them doing that. Deer hunting is big business.

I don’t either, but I was told that this particular biologist is bit of an a-hole.

Yeah after your neighbor poured the corn out.

Guys i live an hunt in west lauderdale county 2 miles from where cwd deer was killed. We had 2 tested positive out of thousands killed. None the local hunters pay much attention to that crap unlike all the news media tells you. Nobody went out an blasted all the deer like they wanted us too. We don t see the big deal. I have friends that hunt in hardeman co tn where it supposed be bad. They still do the same as before.i don t see where a timber way south of here starts worrying bout cwd. Since the baiting law came into effect it hasn t changed the numbers killed in my area anyway . just have pay extra 15 bucks for nothing cause we don t feed on our club. Me personally is only on that feed.i use it to bait hogs an i do that after deer season but now we supposedly can t do that . Pisses me off. Can t put feed out over 100 ft of my house. Wth!!!

Maybe should require feeder timers to go off at midnight instead of peak hunting times. I’ve watched deer and hogs come to the sound of a broadcast feeder go off. They become conditioned to that sound.