Unpopular Opinion

In most of Alabama, the population of mature bucks could significantly increase and the number of mature bucks killed by hunters wouldn't significantly increase. In most places, it's not the complete lack of mature bucks that prevent most people from routinely killing them. It's habitat, hunting styles and other factors. If you never see/kill mature bucks now, that would be unlikely to change.

I always say if what you doing ain't working change how you do it .

Having a higher number of mature bucks using your property would definitely increase your odds of killing one no matter how you hunt.

2+2=4

If you want to kill more mature bucks then you gotta see more of them.

Your hunting is only as good as your neighbors..... with baiting and liberal seasons the opportunity exists to decimate buck populations.

How do y’all think these snaggle tooth 8 year olds are killing Booners? You think they’re putting in 180 hours a month in the tree saddle 30 ft up? Or.....are they hunting phenomenal properties with a huge number of big bucks?

If we had more mature bucks on our place, we’d kill more bucks.

I've seen a half dozen picture of children under age 10 that have killed monsters this year. Let me kill the suspense...none of them were killed in Bankhead national forest, or Jackson county. They were all killed in the Mississippi Delta or prime Alabama black belt land.

II Have a problem with that! I like to hunt whatever size deer I feel like taking ! Its not up to you!

That's right Frankie.

Mike not if they never set foot in the area you're hunting during daylight.

True CNC, but having more doesn't insure you'll see more.

270 that's in line with what I'm saying. Those properties apparently lay out and are hunted in a way that's conducive to killing mature bucks. It's my contention that almost all sizable properties hold mature bucks but most are either difficult to hunt or the people aren't hunting it in a manner that leads to mature bucks being killed.

T-town I don't doubt that but I'm assuming you're already killing mature bucks.

In my mind, extra bucks would be in areas that already hold them and the hunters that already see/kill them would kill more, but if your area doesn't have any now or you never see them, I don't think much would change. I'm not talking about so many that the woods would be so saturated with them that they wouldn't have a choice but to inhabit your property and walk by wherever you set up.

It doesn’t take a savvy woodsman to smoke the 2-3 year old age class. Nearly every property I’ve hunted the older bucks were no harder to kill than the younger ones, except there just aren’t as many of them. You can’t kill what’s not there and there’s lots of places they simply aren’t there. The properties that consistently produce very nice deer all have one thing in common. It’s simple. They don’t shoot them until they’re big. Nothing spectacular. Average hunters can kill big deer where they exist.

Yeah , never leave out the,,,, luck factor.

Lot of simple things hunters can do to improve their chances

Where I hunt there will never be what i would call , a trophy class deer killed.

Some of the biggest bucks ever killed have been killed by the most unlikely hunters. Lot will say they didn't even know it existed like Milo Hansen? Now, just having access to the right property that is the most difficult part, imo. Some people just have the right property or habitat and on those any kid can shoot one, almost at their choosing. Not really that impressive to me! Like shooting fish in a barrel. Some properties are just loaded with deer others obsolete until.....boom or swack!

The three hardest things in deer hunting: Educating deer hunters, getting everyone you hunt with on the same page as far as goals and controlling that trigger finger. If you have those three things going for you, you’ll have plenty of mature bucks.

Truth.

People have to quit smoking the 2 and 3 year old bucks.

"liberal" season has nothing to do with it. Because there is a buck limit of 3.
The "problem" is all the great white hunters out there that smoke every 2 and 3 year old buck they see until they limit out.
Baiting could be an issue - and it should have never been legalized.

I agree with you. Very few mounter-racked bucks are killed on a greenfield, from a shooting house or ladder stand, that gets hunted every weekend, by every member on the club and their 463 kids and guests (with their Bad Boy Buggy sitting literally in sight) (and it was daylight when they walked in and out).

When someone says "hunting club" to me, I immediately think "food plots and ladder stands" and basically no chance at a mounter buck. No thank you.

Some of you want further encroachment on our hunting privileges, because you prefer a different way of hunting. You bow hunt, so let's limit gun hunters. You want a huge buck, so let's limit the numbers others kill. Go buy several hundred acres, manage it to the best or your ability, and then have some twiddle fart tell you that you can't kill bucks on it, because it isn't fair to them because they can't hunt that type land. Hmmm, sounds like a bunch of democrats to me.

Yeah, you can see all the Biden, Hillary and Sanders voters on here.

I know a couple guys that hunt about 1k acres. In the last 4 years they have killed 13 bucks one of those was aged at 3, two were aged at 4 and the other ten were aged at 5+. Nine of those were killed on green fields. The biggest obstacle to killing mature deer is having mature deer and it ain’t even close.

X2 on Mikes last sentence

I hav 2 properties and the property I hit harder - my very best deer stayed nocturnal

The other property I hardly hunted my best deer showing up often now and has been for a month

For me it pressure and wind and u hav to hav the deer first

My first sit paid off for me again this year which is often the case if Nobody else pressured

I don’t hunt the wind
I woke up late
I was hungry at 9am
I washed my cloths before season
That was my granddaddy’s stand.
That’s too thick to hunt
I kill what I want, I see mature bucks on camera and they ain’t easy to kill.
That kind of thing?

And the only way to have mature 4/5+ bucks is to stop killing all the 1, 2 and 3 year old bucks.

We've got a three buck limit.

Read more carefully.
The post was about the most common ages of bucks that people kill.
Most 1, 2 and 3 year old bucks are killed every single year by hunters.
Very few bucks are allowed to make it to 4 years old, much less 5 years old.

Yawn

Same people will be on here bitching about chuckie telling them what to do!

A 1.5-2yr old buck is way better to eat then a 5-6yr old and you save your does. Way better sausage also. A nice young spike is prime vittles. Just ask Quailman.

I know you can't kill them if you don't have them, but I figured most areas had some and they weren't all killed now. I thought by adding more mature bucks to the mix but continuing to hunt the same way in the same areas, you'd have the same results. Maybe I'm wrong. Definitely not advocating for more restrictions.

This comparison of deer management and political liberty is as preposterous as it is ignorant. A man advocating for conservative management of a shared resource can only be right.

And why is it that the argument ALWAYS goes this way??---- Two landowners side by side.
Guy A is virtuous and enlightened, an "if it's brown it's down, no rules" kind of hunter, a loving saint who pets lambs and feeds starving children and is the only kind of hunter who TRULY enjoys the outdoors, he knows what's REALLY important about hunting.
Guy B is an evil trophy hunter, a miserable grump who robs the fun from hunting and stomps on kittens. He has been brainwashed by Stan Potts and needs therapy to return to the grass roots pursuit of tasty venison
(yes, the sarcasm is intended because that's how y'all freakin' act)

Guy A ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS accuses Guy B of being a Democrat, a hunting Nazi, who advocates for more restrictions, and tells him he's being authoritarian and selfish. Because CLEARLY Guy A doesn't in any way, whatsoever, ever at all, affect Guy B.
Those deer cross the boundaries all day and night, every day for the entire lives, and Guy A shoots any of them whenever he wants. But Guy B is the selfish one trying to ruin it for everybody? Give me a break. It truly is just like politics after all, the very ones who are actually a negative affector, accuse the other side doing it.

I'm tired of being bombarded with the folks on hunting AND fishing shows telling me:
"What It's All About"... It's getting real old.

It’s all about what you want to get out of it Tree Dweller - it’s your hunting experience

It's the people that piss and moan constantly about a deer has to be X amount years old or have X amount of inches of antler to be killed. It's all about hunting and enjoying the time in the woods/outdoors. I don't have to impress anyone but myself of what I legally kill/ or don't within the laws and regulations of the state. Asshats that insist on TROPHY STANDARDS for everyone that hunts ARE the problem. Everybody wants to kill a huge massive buck yet to pressure yourself is one thing but insisting everyone do the same is not only wrong but hurting the entire deer hunting sport. Just like houses ,vehicles, etc, Everyone has the right to their personal standards.

I know of a pile of mature bucks killed on food plots over the past 5 years. Most never post pictures. I’ve personally killed 4 (5 year old) bucks in plots in the same period. My son killed 1 and missed 1 (he’s 11). The thing is we ONLY shoot mature bucks on those properties and we don’t shoot does AT ALL. But to say very few is just plain wrong.

Plenty of big bucks are shot on plots and shooting houses every year. Both my sons (8 and 10) shot a 4 and 5/6 year olds on food plots this year. Both were in broad day light too. People often overlook the most important part. That’s pressure, or lack thereof.

^^^^👍

Pressure n Wind

Thousands of 5+ yr old deer die on food plots yearly. Most of those die about 4:30 pm deer are dumb dont over think it

I think the problem is everybody is right in their own eyes and want their own way.

Tons of big bucks killed on green fields. Hunt how you want. Shoot what you want. No need for more regulations. Just need to go to a tag system and catch up with the rest of the states. If you shoot young bucks, you will have fewer old bucks. 1+1=2. Spend time improving your habitat and start a feeding program. You will get what you put into you land. Don’t just show up during hunting season and expect great results. Hunting can be 365 days a year. Trapping, planting, feeding, and timber management can and will help. You can only control your own actions.

This may be the truest post I've ever read on this forum.

Tons of big bucks killed on green fields. Hunt how you want. Shoot what you want. No need for more regulations. Just need to go to a tag system and catch up with the rest of the states. If you shoot young bucks, you will have fewer old bucks. 1+1=2. Spend time improving your habitat and start a feeding program. You will get what you put into you land. Don’t just show up during hunting season and expect great results. Hunting can be 365 days a year. Trapping, planting, feeding, and timber management can and will help. You can only control your own actions. Well Said Bib Bore

I agree!

Another problem that adds a degree of diffuculty with this is each individual's definition of trophy. I've hunted with longbows, flintlocks, and modern rifles. When I'm holding my 308 I'm likely not going to kill a buck smaller than my biggest buck. And even if it's close I'm going to pass. When holding a flintlock or longbow, my own definition of trophy changes. So one man has different definitions of trophy because he at times chooses to challenge himself by using primitive weapons. We simply cannot define trophy for everyone as everyone's standards are different, and may change from day to day. It's hard to manage everyone's hopes, wishes, and dreams.

Agree Treemydog

BigBore was spot on too - hunt how U want - me I like to mange and improve - that may not b for everybody - it’s your experience and hunt - you don’t hav to answer to anybody here

If you ain't got mature bucks, you ain't gonna kill one.
I have shot some good ones off greenfields and I have also seen greenfields where mature bucks have never and will never be taken.
Its all about letting them grow up and leave them alone until you hunt.

When someone says "I hunt how I want to, and you hunt how you want to", what do you ACTUALLY mean?

In contextual fidelity, I don't know how you make the jump from "I'd like the State to be more mindful of balancing the herd" (which is my truest wish for our game rules), to ""I hunt how I want to, and you hunt how you want to".
When you hear others talking about managing the deer herd, what is your fear?? I'm assuming that's code for "Let's manage for big bucks" to you?? And so what if it is???.....what is your fear?

The shoot anything that's brown, "gotta fill my freezer, I'm not a really man unless I kill a buck basket rack 1.5 yr old shooter", loves having people beside them that are managing. Means more and healthier deer for them to be able to shoot.

The I'll kill what I want guy (Guy A) above, is never impacted by Guy B. In fact, if he can hunt beside Guy B, he reaps all the benefits, without having to spend the time or money. See, in any scenario, the only person that is ever, in any way impacted, is Guy B when Guy A shoots all the young bucks that Guy B is trying to grow to maturity.

That is why we need a buck limit of 2 with a 4 year old minimum.

That's why Guy B needs to understand that if he isn't hunting/managing enough of an acreage base to have a decent buffer for the A Guy's who may be hunting around him, he shouldn't be upset or angry when some of the deer he let's walk winds up in A Guy's cooler. It's all understanding perception ... Guy B's 'he'll be a good one next year' may be Guy A's 'hey that's a really good 8 pointer' BOOM.

Case in point... when my 13 year old killed his really nice 11 pointer this year, I got a PM through the book of face from a neighboring landowner that saw the deer and recognized him from his cameras. He told me that he hunts multiple counties and typically only shoots 140s or better. We'll this 11 is under the 140 mark, but still a heckuva deer. My Neighbor was Guy B... and my son and I were A Guys... and we killed that deer before he got to my neighbor's standards. Does that make us the bad guys?

If your neighbor is complaining about any deer a 13 year old kills he’s not Guy A or Guy B. He is guy who needs a life.

Hail, hail and a tip of the hat to all us A guys.

Your the type that wants to limit everyone to measure up to your trophy standards yet never understanding that so many people that are hunting with limited time and places to hunt. If trophy hunters want to take the enjoyment of deer hunting away from people who just want to hunt deer regardless of the " inches of antler" what does that say about them? Trophy hunting is destroying peoples heritage of deer hunting. Beating a dead horse again I guess, but regulations are there for everyone, not just for people who can afford to buy or lease land to dictate what everybody gets to kill legally.

Let me clarify. My neighbor wasn't complaining.. if fact, just the opposite. Yet based on some of the responses here, I feel like there are some folks who probably would. And what if I had killed the 11, which I surely would have if he'd walked out on me that morning? A grown man killing a deer that was sub standard to my neighbor's? What then? Thats why something like "a buck limit of 2 with a 4 year old minimum" is, in my personal opinion, rediculous. BTW 3 biologists aged that 11 at 3.5... so he would have been an illegal deer should WmHunter have his way.

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I am not to worried about my neighbor - if he gets the big one - good for him - none of these animals hv name tags on them - if my neighbor ever poached then I would worry about them

I am not going to waste time worrying and complaining about what somebody else is doing because I can’t control that anyway - I got my own property to manage - I am glad I can still go and enjoy it

If I had to guess - one day we may go to 2 bucks - many years I hav never shot so it will not really matter to me. They will never put an age limit on it - may hav point restrictions but not age

Every kid, teenager, new hunter would and should get the first buck of their choice regardless of age.
The second buck would have to meet the 4 year old minimum requirement.
Congrats to your son.

If folks read this thread and still think we don’t need some agency mediating rules agreeable to all parties then I don’t know what to tell you.

The best hunters I know personally , that shoot the best bucks , seldom if ever pull the trigger now . But they all have piles and piles of different size racks big and little ,that they shot through out the years . If you hear them shoot now though ,you know it's going to be a Whopper . But they would be the last ones to say what other people should shoot

They can't pass a law they can't enforce. That's why agencies pass point restrictions and not age restrictions. Unless you know a deer very well, aging a deer is mostly opinion. Heck, even biologists looking at teeth sometimes can't agree on age. Nobody can prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that a deer is 4.5 y/o to be able to shoot him, and no GW could prove he's not to write you a ticket.

First thing I will admit is that I shot a whole lot of little bucks when I was younger. I was excited for every buck I killed. I look at thing differently now. But I absolutely do not think people should see things my way. They just need to hunt the way they want and do whatever makes them happy. I am happy for people when they enjoy hunting. Period. I do believe there is an evolution of a hunter. I enjoy planting and feeding them now much more. I truly like the management of the herd. My only shortcoming is that I don’t shoot enough does. Not that I don’t enjoy shooting them, but I am usually waiting on a big buck that I am hunting.

I’m in full agreement with you, but it’s amazing how the true inner person comes out in these situations. They are out at the local stores talking the other down and how they would have passed on it. And then they want to throw in the was it killed legally to try and smear the person that killed it.

The more deer I kill, The less I care about antler size. 2 and year old scraggly 5 or monster. Same result. Saw the antlers off, toss them in the bed of truck. Back the next day to do it again.

A lot of bickering can be avoided from either side, if people didn't feel the need to post everything they kill on social media. I kill deer that make me happy and don't give a flip about what others think. I'll show them to a few close friends and that's about it. Nothing good comes from showing off what you kill to people you don't even know.

This

I Lov looking at other guys deer pics on here - don’t know the guys but am happy for them - pumps me up

However U guys want to hunt is your decision- I hope u all kill a 140 plus

Very well said. 👍

I hunt for my enjoyment, not to show off what I kill.

I agree.

(coming from a primarily big buck hunter) Lord no! The dude who's hunting 140's in Alabama (heck, even 130's, or frankly even high 120's) is a crazy mofo. You can hunt your whole life, even be moderately successful and have an enjoyable hunting career, and never see a 140 in Alabama. An average "good buck" in Alabama is probably a 14'-15" eight point that'll dress 125-130 pounds, I'm going to shoot that deer most of the time. And this is really why I take such exception to the guys who get all pissy about the currrent DCNR staff trying to get a better hold on Alabama's deer, trying to increase the standards for Alabama's deer hunting. We ain't trying to become some dumb@#$@# trophy destination, nobody believes this is Saskatchewan. But damn, what's the point of shooting a yearling spike, or worse, a 12' wide 8pt that isn't much bigger than your yard dog??? Gee whiz fellas, I hunt public frickin' land and I see enough does every year to fill every cooler in my neighborhood if I wanted to. It's like you're missing some sort of competitive spirit when you'll shoot a pencil neck buck with basket rack. Like you're missing some common sense understanding of reasonable management. But again, I understand this is just coming from my worldview of how I was raised about deer hunting....deer hunting to me literally only exists for the thrill of the chase, it's ALL about the rush of a big rack (again, not a dadgum 140" buck, just a "good one" for Alabama). I cannot comprehend the emasculated view of hunting where you don't get a thrill from the sight of a big buck, therefore I cannot comprehend the dude who shoots the tiny basket buck ("for meat") and lessens his opportunities of seeing that buck later when he's bigger. Also, I cannot comprehend the man who only hunts truly giant bucks (I need more gratification, more often than that! LOL)

ikillbux , your not required to understand why people choose to kill small bucks. You don't know everyone's situations and time to enjoy their hunting season. All you need to know is that as long as they have the required license and follow the rules and regulations they can enjoy their hobby/sport in their own way. This bulldoodoo over antlers is destroying deer hunting and the enjoyment of this tradition we all love.

I'm going to copy Jim Shockey and Tom Miranda. Spend tens of thousands of dollars
to travel to the other side of the globe to shoot a Deer that weighs 17 lbs w/ 2.5" antlers.
That'll teach me !

That's not what we experience on our property. We see 2 & 3 yr olds all the time (with our eyes while hunting). A two yr old buck is as dumb as can be and anyone can kill a 2 yr old... if they're not already shot up. We let three yr olds walk. However, and here's my point... we don't see near as many 4+ yr olds except on camera. We have them! They're there!! But, those 4+ yr olds are harder to kill and we have a good many as we see them on cams at night. But when the rut happens, they do show themselves a lot more!

Yes. I would agree. From my own personal experience, mature bucks are harder to kill. They tend to be very anti-social. Once the velvet sheds, they even move offf of their bachelor groups. They tend to find places where people are not. Once again, this is not the rule but more times than not,it tends to be the standard. However,I hunted a real big buck on our land in Bibb county several years ago. One of our members shot him at 10am in one of our green fields. He scored 168”. I would have never thought he would have been coming to that field at that time of day.

The rut changes all of this of course!

No offence ,,,,,, but I keep hearing that and have heard it for years but I never see no difference . I ran cameras for 7 years and saw no difference .

As for as day light movement and Dec , when people say deer don't move.

Fences make good neighbors!