The Fourth Leg of the Triangle

For years now we have all heard that there are three major components to growing quality deer……..Age, Nutrition, and Genetics.

I believe there is a fourth leg that needs to be added to that triangle that we should look to manage that doesn’t get talked about very much but likely plays a significant role……..It’s “Stress”…………and stress can come in different forms at different times of the year. If we want to manage for the highest quality deer herd on a property then we need to become managers of stress and reduce it wherever possible…..

That "Fourth Leg" has been discussed and analyzed a million times in a million ways.

It is called PRESSURE. And people have been talking about how to minimize pressure forever - low impact hunting, pulse hunting, minimum human sound, minimum human scent, not hunting crappy warm days, don't blast every doe, don't shoot does on food plots, don't wear a place out before the rut etc. IT IS OLD NEWS. And yes, everyone should seek to keep pressure to a minimum if they are serious mature trophy hunters.

Stress is more than hunting pressure. Overpopulation creates stress. Weather extremes create stress. Competition for food, mates, etc creates stress.

Every time a 6.5 creed is purchased. the hair stands up on the back of a deers neck and a stomach ulcer begins to form..

Absolutely.........also add stress from coyotes to the list.....especially during critical time periods like fawning and post rut. I believe on some properties they're applying a good deal of stress on the deer herd......

In these type discussions, no one ever mentions shooting fewer deer. I guess it's not exciting to "not" pull the trigger. The best deer hunting in the nation, is in places with massive deer populations.

If anyone listens to the MeatEater podcast, a frequent guest on there talks about his area of Wisconsin having 60 deer per square mile. They have phenomenal hunting in terms of quantity, and quality. For reference, that's probably 4 times as many deer as huge swaths of the state of Alabama.

I don't think the state should limit deer killing, but land owners should consider it.

Great post Rem.

That part of Wisconsin is Probly blessed with super amounts of row crop food and protection buffers. That really helps that kind of situation

Could be.

The point I’m trying to make is we say we want bigger deer, but we also want better hunting. That means seeing deer regularly and several of them. Huge chunks of the state are nowhere near that.

I don’t know a single person that says “man, I hunted 3 days in a row and only saw one deer but I know there’s a big deer out there, I’m pumped!” The best places to hunt have the most deer, period, end of story.

I know a guy that got permission to hunt several hundred acres for meat, meaning he was willing to kill anything without spots. He didn’t see a deer until his 7th hunt, and killed a spotless fawn, or whatever you call the smallest possible deer

Now that's good right there!

Before the every day doe season I could go see 30-40 on a hunt on some of the better places I hav hunted but we did not hav huge deer then. One of the spots was shoot only if you mount and we did not shoot much but we did not hav 170 inch deer running around

Wisconsin - Iowa - KS etc a hole other stratosphere of deer hunting and that has nothing to do w trigger pull

Heck Arky did not hav ton of deer - but where I was they had better deer than central Alabama and that did not hav anything to do with trigger pull

As far as pressure goes - When I control property - I minimize the pressure and hunt wind - results hav always been good

Lov first time sits on spots not hunted yet or low pressure spot in the rut

There’s plenty of places in AL that support 60 deer per sq mile and more. There’s VERY few places in AL that have 4x less than that. Perception and reality are often very different.

You can’t compare anything in Wisconsin to anything here. You’ve got some of the most fertile soil on earth up there. There’s a reason parts of Wisconsin lead B&C and P&Y entries. The soil and vegetation can support a lot of deer. They also have a 9 day gun season. If we had a 9 day fun season we’d have more deer than the place could support in a hurry.

Best places in Alabama have insane deer numbers, is my point. Y’all can have the 12 deer per square mile. For my money I want acreage with 22 deer in the field at dusk. I’ve spent enough days of my life leaving an empty field at dark

Thanks Mbrock- exactly

X2

I'll show you a few places

Rotten corn piles because no deer ate it, etc.

I've personally got good places to hunt now, but hunting places with low deer population is just sad.

They are out there. I can name a few myself. It’s typically the result of terrible habitat with assistance from small acreage ownerships and heavy pressure.

Cnc i used to watch those high fence deer breeding shows some. They go out of their way to see to it those deer are comfortable. Ive heard them talk about deer being less stressed making them more healthy. Same with cows and about any other livestock. I reckon stress would work on a wild animal the same way it would work on us.

CNC, one of the biggest stress factors I have ever seen is a family that could hunt day or night 24/7 adjacent to a small farm I hunted for a season. They worked for themselves, could take off the whole season if desired, and named each deer, leaving just enough to have a few for next year. They would re-define the word meat-eaters. Another predator stood no chance of competing for food with a deer on their place, so the deer was stress free in one way, until they ended up on the dinner table.

I'm a tad different than most when it comes to hunting...I love eating and I love killing big deer...I won't shoot a doe around here cuz we don't have many deer but ill take a 2yr old if my freezer is low, i lay off hunting different tracts until my freezer is good then save the best areas for last...if it's a good day for hunting I'll hunt my best areas and let deer go bigger than what I may have taken a week earlier...ill also let go a young buck that I think has potential to be real big

I’ve often wondered what percentage of mature bucks are lost after the rut due to rutting. I’m guessing it’s higher than most think. I watched a documentary on a whitetail buck that laid down and died after living to be 4 or 5. Only stress was predators and breeding. I think it was a Marty Stouffer production.

Like Brock mentioned WI will hurt your feelings with their soil. Deer hunting for me went downhill after seeing first hand up there. Most of the gun deer hunters hunt opening weekend and that’s it. The wolves have changed the north woods though and deer numbers are much lower now.

Everyone wants to compare us to the midwestern states, but doesn't want the season laws that would partially get us there.

Can you imagine the uproar here if Alabama instituted only a 9 day firearms season like Wisconsin. Or, even better, did like Illinois and have NO rifle season...and only like a single weekend shotgun and mz season?

I shouldn't have compared Alabama to Wisconsin.

I'm comparing the best hunting in Alabama to the worst. The best hunting areas have many, many more deer than the crappiest areas. The deer are bigger "and" more numerous and the hunting is about 400 times more fun.

The black belt and swampy areas have plenty of this, I've even seen it in Elmore county too. There are some big deer in Alabama with great racks. Part of the problem is being next to someone that is still of the mindset, "If it's brown, it's down."

You would hav a hole bunch of outlaws if you did that Hunterbuck - 9 day season a no go

How bout Nov 19 to 28th then dec 24 to Feb 10

U did not do anything wrong Remington 270 - good debate and u had some great points

Dang it’s turkey hunting weather out here today - I so ready

I agree you cant compare them But I get what Rem is saying.
if we limited the number of trigger pulls in Alabama we would have more deer right?? I mean makes sense to me.
Not advocating for any kind of new rules or legislation or anything else... i am merely agreeing with the post.

Great point Hunterbuck.

But there in lies the problem. If the DOC told the Alabama Hunting Public that we needed to change our seasons length or harvest amounts we would have a serious problem. Because MOST people in this state do not like being told what to do and most of the time fight over it. "i aint doing i aint doing that" Even if its for the best, they would fight it tooth and nail.

Yep, and it always seems like the "neighbors" are always the problem. Kinda like...."I don't want things to change for me, but the state's gotta do something about my neighbor killing all my deer".

I have come to the same conclusion.

Definitely more than we think it is.

Exactly.

More significant than most realize. And it’s even worse in areas with sex ratios heavily toward females.

It really sucks in years like this one where it was storming both weekends and the bucks were locked up with does during the week. 1 week makes it tough to go after specific deer especially outside of ag country. If I could have used a gun instead of my bow I'd say I could have killed 10+ 135 inch deer. One that supposably will go 180.

However, if the midwestern states went to a month-long plus season none of those deer would have made it past 2.5 years old anyway.

For me the worst thing that has happened in deer management is the inclusion of crossbows into archery seasons. It has increased pressure 3x or more. Every tom, dick, and harry now can stink up the woods for 4 months. It is a dang travesty.

Ha ha

A whole lotta truth here!!

You're on it. One reason those mid-west TV star bucks will walk out in a wide open field , come to the most awful sounding grunt call, look up at the hunter and stand there like a dummy is they aren't harassed 4 months a year.

----->>> ON THAT PROPERTY.

I think they are already messing with us too much with this deer check in app.

Overall they aren't harassed like ours on any property. I don't think I've heard a hunter who hunts Mid-West and points North say those deer are as wary , cautious , nervous , whatever as ours. The ones where I hunted weren't even close.

Yep. Freedom is tough stuff.

The properties we hunted and the properties the guys still hunt in Missouri are not hunted by anyone until the opener of the firearm season. That was some unbelievable hunting. They are still killing really good bucks but the numbers aren’t like they used to be. However I see and kill all I want on our place in Alabama. Some bucks I’ve killed could use another year or 2 on them but I am very happy and proud of everyone. We enjoy hunting and have a dang fun time doing it. It’s all about the excitement when someone kills a deer that makes all the work worth it.

Hunting related stress comes from the pursuit of the animal and is based on the actions of the hunters. The manner in which the animal is ultimately killed is irrelevant. I don't see how bow hunting would be any less stressful unless you're banking on people not going at all.