CWD

MS and TN are both finding new cases, especially TN. Has Alabama found any cases. Hope it will not be kept on the down-low if they do discover any cases.

I believe unless it’s changed Alabama has to notify the public within 24 hours, or that’s what I remember from the response plan.

Oh it won't be kept on the down low

Yep...they'll make a big announcement shutting down baiting.

Funny thing will be when clubs are shut down due to bait being present inside of 10 days of removal...especially if it happened during the peak of the rut.

Be a chit storm for sure.

We have 3 Tn counties on the state line that are positive. I was thinking today I can’t believe we haven’t heard of a Bama deer yet.

The only way the disease can appear in Alabama is if it is brought here, knowingly or unknowingly, said Chuck Sykes, director of the state game department’s Wildlife and Freshwater Fisheries Division.
“I am confident that the only way Chronic Wasting Disease will get to Alabama is it will be brought here,” Sykes said. “It will be that negligent, uncaring hunter who harvests a deer out of state and doesn’t take the time to properly handle the carcass. And once it gets here, we can never put that genie back in the bottle. It will have unforeseen impacts on a multibillion dollar industry, not only economically but culturally.

Doesn't matter that it's in 3 counties on the state line. A CWD infected deer won't cross the state line.

It's here, just hasn't been found yet.

What a tool. He’s already blaming it on the hunters. The closest case is 36 miles away from Alabama’s northwest corner. I am confident by the laws of science that CWD will get to Alabama via yearling buck dispersal sooner rather than later.

Not that many have been tested...

dumbest chitt he has said yet, and that is saying something.

The way it SHOULD read......

The only way the disease can appear in Alabama is if it is promoted/fostered here, Chuck Sykes, director of the state game department’s Wildlife and Freshwater Fisheries Division SHOULD have said.
IF he were honest he WOULD have said "I am confident that the only way Chronic Wasting Disease will get to Alabama is through negligence on the part of my management and DCNR policies. It will be that negligent, uncaring government agency, the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, that doesn’t take the steadily growing evidence in bordering states and make the right decisions to guard Alabama against CWD. And once it gets here, we can never put that genie back in the bottle. It will have unforeseen impacts on a multibillion dollar industry, not only economically but culturally. However, I believe that making money for DCNR via a Baiting License that brings matching Pittman-Robertson funds is more important than any plan to negate congregating deer and the likelihood of spreading the disease that accompanies baiting."

Doesn't matter that it's in 3 counties on the state line. A CWD infected deer won't cross the state line.

To me, this can be interpreted 1 of 2 ways.

1). Sykes is telling the people that CWD can not spread from area to area. It has to be carried by humans. Thus, " the only way the disease will appear in Alabama" comment
OR
2). He knows it will be here on his watch. He knows the CEO, head coach, or whoever is in charge gets the blame..Right or wrong doesn't matter. They take the check to take the blame. He is trying to put the blame on the hunters before it happens. Deflect, deflect, deflect. He also knows when it gets here, there will be no way to prove where it came from. So, he can say what he wants without anyone proving him wrong.

There are no counties touching Alabama with positive tests. They are all well west of Alabama and north.

Yep.

I still haven’t heard a coherent explanation of how a dead deer riding across the state line in a truck infects a living deer in the wild...

Dead deer with CWD infected with nonliving protein prions that are discarded into an environment without those prions. Those prions don’t have to be transferred from a living deer to another living deer. There are indirect modes of infection.

What's more plausible: CWD infected deer walking down here from Colorado or someone bringing one or parts of one from an infected area?

You have a point. I didn't realize the closest deer by walking distance was in Colorado with CWD. In that case, then yes, it will be brought in by a person. A deer is not walking that far. I could have sworn I heard is was closer to Alabama than Colorado though.

CWD ain't going to arrive via a dead deer carcass. Scientific evidence is that it may of been transferred by carcass ONE time MAYBE. Transfeeal by live deer brought into the state in a trailer is way the hell more likely...and Sykes knows it. Walking in from Ms or Tn is also way more likely than by dead carcass, but walking in or truck transfer don't help support Alabamas ban on deer carcass's coming in from out of state. Anything the state can do to prevent CWD from coming into Al is fine but don't piss on my leg and tell me it is raining.

Colorado is where it was first discovered.

If the state requires processors to properly dispose of bones/guts/skulls then where does the risk come from? I’ve seen more deer skeletons left on the side of the roads since the law was passed. I wish someone along the way would have thought about a system using a check system with the processors. There’s several processors and taxidermist that are out of business now directly because of the law. Also last time I checked deer don’t know where the state lines are.

That has nothing to do with how it will get to Alabama. May not even have to do with where it originated.

Lol. Ok.

So when it’s found here, will I still have to debone meat from out of state? They say that it is found in spinal tissue. Isn’t spinal tissue nerve tissue? Isn’t there nerve tissue contained within deboned meat??

I wonder if the DCNR is working on a plan and regs for the day that it IS found in AL deer. Or will it be knee jerk/jump thru their ass and come up with something on the spot.

Here ya go, Marlon.

Alabama's Response Plan

https://www.outdooralabama.com/site...lan%20-%20Master%20Draft%207-09-2019.pdf

CWD is probably spread in ways that are yet discovered. Nature will find a way.

Thanks, Billy.

My new/next question........Does anybody know what buck to doe ratio has to do with CWD?

GW's Need to kill all buzzards at state line instead of looking in truck beds. They could eat an infected animal and catch a jet stream and come to AL and chit on a corn pile. Deer eats it and we all gonna die

Nothing to worry about.

Deer don't cross State lines.

Sincerely,

1/2 a dozen people on the Skyline WMA thread.

I read an article today stating Mississippi has found forty new cases of CWD. Mostly in two counties adjacent to Tennessee.

Please link that article.

Thank you.

I am not the best linker, but I believe I read it in the clarion ledger newspaper online. You can probably google it.

to quote dirty Harry. "do you feel lucky, well do you punk?"

Some of it is just how long it takes naturally to make its way in and some of that is luck (or randomness if you like that). In a few of the heaviest testing areas in Missouri less than 1 per thousand deer is positive. So, to get a positive male that is the random member that exhibits the "long-dispersal Genes" and then for him to meet others and infect them after dispersing and traveling miles and remaining alive is difficult.

I have no reason to doubt state agency disease biologists, but I have been looking for some kind of concentric pattern of spread in the highest tested areas. Or spread along spatial boundaries. So far there are clumps of positive deer but it is hard to see the pattern of dispersal in the spread of the disease. Almost makes a person believe it is just underlying in the overall population (test enough and find it) or the spread is from transport of infected specimens.

I admit I don't spend much time on this issue and it has been a while since movement ecology. So just some thoughts when I look at the data and maps.

This article I read stated that the first and second CWD cases found in Mississippi were 160 miles south of the recently found forty cases. It will cover every county in the state before you know it, if it hasn’t already.

CWD is not underlying in the overall population. Study the progression in the Wisconsin deer herd over the last 20 years. Some counties have a 50% percent infection rate in 2 year old plus bucks. Missouri fits the early infection profile.

I am at the end of my deer hunting career, killed my share and processed or had processed every one I killed. Not anymore.

How are they testing? I killed a deer in TN last year and they wouldn't process it until I registered the harvest. Sure isn't what they do in AL.

You have to turn in the head. They test the retropharyngeal lymph nodes, I believe.

http://www.mdwfp.com/media/news/wildlife-hunting/hunters-needed-final-push-for-cwd-samples/

I killed a deer back during Christmas break and took the head to a processor in northern Lamar Co listed as a collection site for CWD testing. I was told by the processor that "we don't participate in the testing anymore". He said he was not aware that his operation was still listed as a drop off site for deer heads to be tested, on the DCNR website. He said processors would suffer the closure of their business if word ever got out that an infected deer had been processed at their facility and he was not in favor of making the test results known to the public.
He told me if I'd fill out a tag and leave it with him that the guy in the county who still does participate in collecting heads would be buy every Friday to pick up heads for taxidermy. I left the head but I doubt seriously he did anything other than dispose of it. If I don't hear from the area biologist about test results in a week or two, I'll know for certain.
I just can't believe that anyone would rather not know of a diseased deer heard in their area, and take their chances hoping nothing bad ever happened to them.

I don't doubt your info. I probably need to look into the issue more. But I still wonder if Alabama tested 100k deer over the next 3 years if they wouldn't find .0005 positive rate. Which is what I meant in the underlying in the population. Just by my (not too detailed) observations it doesn't seem to be a natural dispersal cause of several newly infected areas.

Informative article, but not the one I referred to.8

Here is something interesting to watch on CWD https://youtu.be/qNcru0XITcM

I hunted in Nebraska this year and the guys I hunted with had killed a mule deer. After hanging in the cooler for 2 days and not getting stiff like all the other bucks, they took it to the biologist and had it tested. It was confirmed to have CWD. I'd never heard of them not setting up rigor mortis until then. Idk much about CWD, does all the cases do this?

never heard of that and I damn sure wouldn't eat it.

talk about an agenda!!!! Absolutely full of half truths and damn lies driven by a self serving agenda by a bunch of deer breeders.

"Wyoming doesn't have any CWD positive tests in any high fence facility"(high fence breeders aren't at fault for CED there)....while that may be true CWD infected deer were shipped from Ft Collins in the late 60S to areas of Wyoming, and southern Wyoming is just north of the release area of infected deer by Ft Collins in the 60s. Infected deer were there before any high fences.....

If you tested 100k deer, one may very well test positive for a prion disease. Prion diseases per se are probably natural to all mammals. In humans, roughly 1 in a million people will develop spontaneous CJD which is caused by just rogue prion in the body that starts replicating itself. It’s not supposed to happen but think along the lines of cancers - eventually with so many healthy cells/ prions you are going to get a rogue one.


CWD is a very specific type of prion disease. At some point in time, CWD arose from one of these “1 in a million” cases.....but unlike any prion disease we know of , THIS ONE, the one we call CWD, is highly HIGHLY communicable. It has even changed into district strains like a virus does.


So your research was half right- prion diseases themselves are natural to mammAls, including deer, but CWD is an entirely new prion disease, one that is rapidly expanding in geographic range and density. It’s a whole new nightmare.

CWD didn't come arise from a "1 in a million" rogue prion....

do yer research, digh real deep...it came from the research pens at the State of Colorados Foothills Wildlife Research Facility at Ft Collins in mid 60s after researchers put healthy mule deer in pens that had held scrappy infected sheep.

They didn't. They were suspicious of it. DNR called him a few days after taking the sample and confirmed what they thought. He showed me the video of it. It was still limp as a noodle 2 days after.

You pick me apart every time I oversimplify to make a point Fred. I didn’t actually say it started with deer though....

I agree, the research facility is almost certainly where a sheep-borne prion disease jumped species to whitetails. Prion diseases have shown the ability to move somewhat fluidly between different mammal species. At some point in that mammal chain there was a prion mutation, that “one in a million” that became highly contagious. It either started with sheep or passed through sheep and then onto whitetails. Though technically you could of had that “one on a billion” arise at the exact same time deer were housed at Fort Collins with sheep carrying scrapies , that is extremely unlikely.

It was first detected there. That’s all anyone really knows...

Swampdrummin, didn't mean to pick at ya

I've been studying CWD since 1980, have read ALL the early literature before it was whitewashed or deleted. And most of the literature since then also. There has been a LOT of whitewashing and downright lying from a bunch of folks about the role Ft Collins played in the start of CWD. Hell, I read a paper from a fella now at Ft Collins that said there were never any scrappie infected sheep at Ft Collins in the 60s. You know, the old democrat tell a lie enough and it becomes fact.

ONE of the grad students at Ft Collins was a woman named Beth Williams, who later earned he PhD and was the person who discovered that the unknown disease in the Mule Deer at the lab was a TSE disease like Mad Cow and , lo and behold, scrappie in sheep. Beth was later killed in an auto wreck which is unfortunate for the loss of someone with her knowledge of CWD. Beth said in one of her early papers that she feared that they, the researchers in the mule deer study, had set the stage for the birth of CWD in deer. She and her study team put healthy mule deer does in a pen that had held scrappie infected sheep, and the deer later showed signs of an unknown disease( later named CWD) . Ft Collins shipped deer to a handful of other states and two Canadian Provinces in the late 60s. They released the original mule deer does after they gave birth to fawns and weaned them...they released those deer just north of Ft Collins. Look at a up to date CWD map and see the concentration of CWD in THAT area. In the 90s one could back trace every known incidence of CWD directly or indirectly back to deer from those research pens. Pretty damning evidence.

NOBODY in the game and fish or biology business wants to admit that the scientific community at Ft Collins is responsible for CWD....

It's coming, don't think really matters in my opinion who to blame or how it gets here, never stop it from coming with open borders. I love deer meat ,going to miss it. I believe any money or energy spent on anything other than the ability for hunters to have their harvest tested quickly, and convienantly is money and energy thrown up a bulls ass

Since CWD's discovery in 1967 there has never been a case of a human being infected from a deer either by handling or consuming. Based on statistics, thousands of CWD positive deer have been handled and eaten since then. I hunt in the CWD counties in TN. We process our own, debone and freeze the meat until we get the test results back. All 5 deer we killed were negative. If they were positive, I wouldn't have consumed the meat, but I'm not scared to death of it.

I wonder how many hunters have died since 1967 falling out of stands, wrecking while driving to hunt, being struck by lightning while hunting? CWD to humans is at this point one of the least dangers to deer hunters....

Then why all the fuss about it....It aint ever hurt nobody.....Right?

Based on what's occurred in WI and Michigan, it will decrease the number of older (trophy) bucks in a herd and decrease the herd numbers somewhat but it's certainly not nor should it be the end of deer hunting.

JMW, CWD has proven to be able to jump the so called "species barrier" way easier than Scrappie or Mad Cow. Mule Deer to Elk toWhitetail Deer to Moose to Reindeer....and beyond in the labs. And some of the human TSEs have 40+ year incubation periods. So yer sure it won't jump to humans???????

So, in the old testament god punishes the greedy, those putting other gods in front of him, and those that worship false idols. Those antlers have sure become worshiped and the Lord only knows how many sabbaths have been unobserved during the rut. Not to mention how greedy hunters can be with land access. It all adds up. Cervids may be the tool of our own destruction. We should just all repent and pray for a long incubation period.

Easy for me to say because the rut has been over for 2 months where I hunt.

It is at this point a just in case, they haven't documented yet or determined yet that humans could get from the meat. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened, doesn't mean it has. About the testing,, It's my understanding that the testing not sophisticated enough yet to pick up CWD very early stages. I might not be right about that, so you need to check. My understanding is half the reason on most response plans for killing deer is to kill enough to determine the prevalence rate. My thought has been ,what does that do for you, it don't get rid of it, don't slow it down much .

[quote=BhamFred]JMW, CWD has proven to be able to jump the so called "species barrier" way easier than Scrappie or Mad Cow. Mule Deer to Elk toWhitetail Deer to Moose to Reindeer....and beyond in the labs. And some of the human TSEs have 40+ year incubation periods. So yer sure it won't jump to humans???????


I don't doubt it can and will jump species eventually. I'm actually amazed it hasn't shown in cows or pigs yet. I'm just saying that at this time one is more likely to get food poisoning from eating deer meat than CWD. If deer are tested negative (which I'm sure isn't 100% accurate) I think the fear of eating venison is ungrounded compared to the other relative risks one assumes to get said venison. I personally won't eat any deer that hasn't been tested.

If and when it does jump to beef, we'l see research and breakthroughs immediately....

Mississippi needs more deer tested for CWD, so they increase the bag limit. On February 8&9 in the north CWD zone hunters can take an additional seven deer along with the normal limit. All deer killed must be tested. Dang, them boys must have a lot of deer.

I haven’t heard this. Good to know. But there’s not a ton of deer in those areas.

You can google Clarion Ledger (you get three free articles) just look around and you will find the article.

Pigs can get it. Why that isn’t bigger news is because the study that discovered this did not let the disease “run its course”. Rather, they slaughtered all the pigs before they went clinical.

As far as accuracy, prion diseases start with a single warped prion that turns into, let’s say, a billion warped prions. The only way for a deer to test “ positive” is for enough prions to be present so that they can reliably be observed. For the first 3-4 months a deer has the disease, it will test “not positive” because the level is somewhere on the low end of one to a billion. It’s kinda like finding a needle in a haystack that first 3-4 months. Nevertheless, if you eat the haystack, you’re gonna eat the needle. No test will ever be able to rule out CWD because every single prion protein in the deer would need to be inspected.

Thus if you are afraid to eat a deer that tests positive, you should also be afraid to eat the negative ones in an area where the disease is prevalent. That’s because roughly 1-4 or 1-5 will have it but test “not positive”. Think about it this way, if your hunting camp kills 20 deer in an area like the outbreak in Tennessee that has a 25 percent infection rate and everyone just eats deer that that test “not positive” then one of you is still probably eating a CWD positive deer that season.. This deer contains infectious proteins that have been shown to kill macaque monkeys and spider monkeys over an extended incubation relative to their lifespans. Those infections proteins have also shown the ability to mutate into different strains that infect species previously immune.

Humans are eating a lot of deer with CWD across the country. Each and every consumption is a new experiment. One researcher called the continued consumption of deer in CWD areas the largest human experiment of all time.

Somebody tell Mississippi they won’t get rid of it by testing.

Question, do you eat vinison? Have you ever eaten vinison and if you have stopped eating vinison is it because of CWD?

I've stopped using processors. I don't see any sense in exposing my deer meat to 1,000 other deer that may have CWD.

I have eaten venison (a LOT) all my life. I will stop eating it the day CWD is found anywhere near to where I kill a deer. I won't stop hunting big bucks but I won't eat them.

Did someone say that the human incubation for this would be maybe 40 years. If that is true might die of something else first. I'm not going to chance it myself,. There really isn't enough information yet to make a good judgment. That's why I believe these different DCNR responses in all these states are half baked, if you don't have all the information you need, you are just shooting in the dark hoping to hit something. I say keep your powder dry until you can see what your shooting at.

a human form of TSEs is called Kuru, a south Pacific TSE. The incubation period runs about 40 years.

On CWD in deer it runs 2 years plus to 4 and more.

Troy ,explain to me what knowing the prevalnce rate does, it certainly will not get rid of it, once you have ,you have it.

It helps understand how quickly the disease spreads. Monitored over time it can help determine if management actions are actually working. In Wisconsin prevalence rates are approaching 60% and its greatly impacted the percentage of mature animals in the population. In areas of Illinois where the state has taken measures to decrease deer populations and minimize direct contact between deer the prevalence rates are 30-50% lower than they are just across the state line in Wisconsin, where they’re doing nothing.

Mr. Brock, Wisconsin has had it longer if I am not mistaken. If I remember correctly Wisconsin started out with a very aggressive approach ,sent teams to try to eradicate the deer in positive areas . I appreciate you answering ,but I was asking for Troy's opinion. Not that yours doesn't count. I know Troy and was curious about his thoughts on it. .

If all deer get it and die I could wake up tomorrow just fine

If all deer get it and die I could wake up tomorrow just fine

Wanna say that again 257 🤣

Yes. I’ll be fine. Reckon there was glitch in skinny’s fine run show here

Just want to say I appreciate these threads. I've been out of the deer game for a while and pathology/disease ecology was never my thing anyway. While it is fun to shoot off about personal experiences these threads have spurred on a little research. Thanks guys. Though I probably need to spend that time working on my current topics it is always good to get back up to speed.

I used to eat a lot of venison. You could copy Fred’s answer for mine with the exception that yes I have stopped eating deer from areas with CWD or areas close to CWD. Knowing everything I do about CWD and the mechanisms of prion disease, I cannot rightfully continue to eat venison from such areas and expose my children to it. CWD is not a conspiracy. It is a true-to-life disease straight from the pages of a science fiction horror film.

Again, prion diseases are caused by infectious mammal PROTEINS - the very building blocks of our bodies.. Normally, prion diseases are one in a million mutations that are diseases of a single person. These do not have the opportunity to change and evolve because they die with the person. Kuru - the most famous human prion disease - was snuffed out of existence when the natives found out about the disease and stopped eating each other’s brains.

CWD on the other hand is different. It is contagious between at least a dozen known mammal species including the only two primate species that have been tested. In deer it’s contagious with simple contact not brain consumption. Because it’s contagious it has the ability to mutate and change overtime. It can also move through one species to kill another species it couldn’t before. For example, hamsters could not originally get CWD from a deer but they can get it if it passes through a ferret first. So maybe humans can’t catch CWD from deer. But pigs can. This changes the game because maybe humans can get it from a pig that got it from a deer. Repeat this for all the mammals we hunt. Maybe humans can get it from a rabbit that got it from a deer. Maybe humans can get it from a pig that got it from a coyote that got it from a deer. Hell, maybe humans can it from a deer that got it from a pig that got it from a deer. The possibilities are limited by your imagination.

Prion diseases also kill quicker the more times they pass through a species. In other words, the incubation period shortens the longer the disease is around. The fact that CWD is going to eventually be in millions of deer - and thus have millions of times to evolve and mutate - should concern every person that eats meat. This is a disease that changes and kills mammal species based on our very protein structures. Not fish. Not reptiles. Not bugs. Not birds. Mammals.

It was first discovered in Wisconsin in the fall of 2001 very near the Illinois line. It was then discovered in Illinois in the fall of 2002 very near the Wisconsin line. The two states would probably dispute where it actually started but the point is probably moot. It started close enough to the line such that the two states present a very interesting case study in disease management. Wisconsin did start out with very aggressive management plan. It was very unpopular and they abandoned it in favor of no disease management. Illinois started off with and has continued with a very aggressive management plan including using sharpshooters in known 640 acre sections. It was and still is very unpopular but people have accepted it. In the roughly 20 years since it was discovered on the line, the disease has traveled like a wildfire through Wisconsin. It has saturated counties, has high prevalence rates, and a farther geographic reach. In Illinois it’s the difference between night and day. Low prevalence rates, low county saturation and lower geographic reach.

Thank you sir. I don't know if you are or aren't an employee of W,F.F, but that is a DCNR talking point, I am not saying it is not a valid point in any way. But l am looking for a different perspective. That is the DCNR point given to support the current response plan. Its not that I think Illinois or Alabama copying Illinois is a bad idea, just exploring what and if there are alternatives,that might prove to be even more effective.

For example, I have heard that since CWD infected deer tend to wander like an Alzymers patient,and go much further than their normal range, that not banning feeding may keep them closer to where they were infected, thus hypotheticaly, not spreading the disease across a larger geographic area as fast

I’m not trying to support anyone’s response plan. I’m stating facts from what’s nearly been two decades of data collection. I have sat through presentations given by these states on their responses and there is no agenda.

Im sure Illinois has probably employed other measures other than just shooting deer to isolate the disease in areas it is found. May turn out to be the only way, don't know.

Self-employed attorney and no affiliation with any game agency. I used to live and hunt in Illinois somewhat close to the disease. I’ve followed it there for about a decade.


My wife is a neurologist and was concerned about CWD before me. She sees the human version of CJD - a disease that slowly destroys everything that makes you a human being. Believe me, I looked at every angle to convince her it was overblown. It took a while for me to let go of my feeling that it just had to be overblown. Funny thing emotions are. The bigger a hunter you are the more you don’t want to accept the facts. If you gave me a button to push to give me back my ignorance, I’d be tempted to hit it.

Not trying to be argumentative, but those presentations can themselves be biased. How data is expressed, based on agency goals can sometimes lead to poor decision making. I was in a meeting today concerning presentations and how agency goals were possibly skewing the recommendations.

While I'm not saying there is ANY evidence of that in cwd studies (and to a man agency employees are doing what they think is right) there is some public skepticism that comes with info originating from State and federal agencies (right or wrong). Many times that skepticism leads to less public support for management recommendations, but it seems the "managers" many times bristle to that rather than embracing the underlying distrust. ( not saying that has anything to do with your posts but rather a general perception that agencies)

No one has accused you of that Mr. Brock. Nor am I accusing you or anyone else of any agenda. I'm pretty sure I thanked you. i can only guess that you are taking humbridge with my statement about talking points.. That is the most often cited example. I went on to say I didn't think it was bad etc. So exactly what is it you are unhappy about

Thank you sir, I am aware of the danger's CWD poses, not one that denys it. What to do about it ,is what I am inquiring about.

Illinois increases doe season in the infected counties to reduce the deer population generally in those counties. So step one, it decreases the population in roughly a 700 square mile area surrounding the disease. Step 2 Illinois aggressively targets specific sections of land where the disease is detected. When I say section I am referring to the plat map terminology, being 640 acres or a single square mile, which is how all counties map out their land. Here they often deploy sharpshooters to drastically reduce the population in that 1 section out of 700. Step 3 is banning transportation of carcasses out of these areas. This general and surgical approach has been very successful.

The Achilles heel to the Illinois approach is yearling buck dispersal.. Yearling bucks will disperse 10-20 miles in farm country, maybe 30.. This results in “sparks” where the disease sparks from one controlled area, let’s say an infected 640 acre section, to another area. So now you have 2 sections out of 700 to sharpshoot and they are 20 miles apart. While the surgical approach has been very successful at containing fires as they appear, the sparks from the yearling dispersal can be reduced but not eliminated unless you just kill all the deer in infected areas. Eventually it will reach the point where, not unlike a wildfire, certain areas will need to be abandoned and a new “firebreak” established. There will invariably be sparks and a new firebreak will need to be established and so on and so forth. Absent a cure, it’s all about buying time and killing deer, especially where the disease is located, is the only viable way to buy time. Illinois has bought itself decades compared to Wisconsin with its approach. This is not a point of view or a talking point. It is cold hard scientific fact supported by the real life evidence of two different approaches

For what it’s worth, Illinois also bans feeding in the whole state while Wisconsin allows feeding and only bans it an area once the disease is located within 10 miles. A widespread baiting culture, and the resulting congregations of deer, may very well help account for why the wisconsin counties are so densely infected with the disease. When baiting is so common place, an infected deer is a new area is sure to come into very close proximity with most of the deer in its home range. As for the argument that baiting would keep Alzheimer’s deer from roaming... ...isn’t that kind of self defeating? Even if it isn’t, Deer at the “Alzheimer’s stage” may spread the disease further but if it does so, it does so at a walking pace that is stopped by the first coyote it comes across. The bigger threat posed by feeding is congregating other deer in the home range. I.e. the same area, that the infected animal spends 99% of its time. The 1 percent exposure from rutting when he is rutting or a walking zombie is negligible in comparison.

Thank you, maybe talking point was a poor choice of words because of the conatations that go with it. I am not attacking the methodology Illinois employs. I am certainly not advocating Wisconsin's approach. The corn speculation was not mine , it came from within, I Don't believe it was ever seriously considered,. Just thrown out there . As far as facts , Illinois methods are for a fact have proven to be better than Wisconsin's. I would even agree that at this time, it may be the best method.It is not yet a fact that Illinois method is the only viable option that will ever exist. I learned a long time ago to stay away from absolutes if possible. Alot of of solutions and inovations have come from the private sector. Being open minded ,and inclusive I believe will lead to a even better way to contain, etc the spread of CWD

to me all it does is tell you how damn far behind we are. It is not going to do anything as far as fighting it longterm. Once it is ON the soil it is IN the soil for a unknown very long time and can infect new healthy deer down the road...so eradicating ALL the deer in an infected area will not do anything towards reintroducing healthy deer back into that area. They will still get it. This is a very bad disease for deer hunters and game agencies.

Once it's in the ground, it is bad news.

Also, if it's in the soil will other animals contract the disease? Lots of animals eat deer corn and graze on clover or beans.

Thanks Troy, that all makes sense. I feel like that if Agencies would be a little more open minded some better solutions might come forward. I saw some research from that lady from Colorado you mentioned where she found that certain elk with a rare DNA profile for that herd didn't get it or were very resistant to it.

Thanks Troy, that all makes sense. I feel like that if Agencies would be a little more open minded some better solutions might come forward. I saw some research from that lady from Colorado you mentioned where she found that certain elk with a rare DNA profile for that herd didn't get it or were very resistant to it.

I don't think axis deer get it.

and scrappie was bred out of existence here in the US. Deer breeders are looking at the same thing, selectively breed deer that are very resistant to CWD.

We will be dealing with this a long time without some breakthrough. That long incubation period will drag out the time frame for populations to increase genetic resistance.

Have heard that some are optimistic about the progress in ultimately curing the disease. Not that we are anywhere close, but just that if we can hold it back for another 20+ years there may be light at the end of the tunnel.

Amazing how fast we can alter genetics with animal husbandry....though maybe some transgenic methods might help in the wild population's cwd problem. (kind of scary to think about though)

Troy did you sit in on a presentation, sure you qualified to have any thoughts on the matter

You’re funny.

To answer your previous question I’m not unhappy about a thing. I live a happy life. The impression I got from your inquiry was that you were accusing all state agencies of holding the talking point line they’re given and that you were not interested in hearing that perspective, which is fine. I’m not unhappy about it. I was just trying to help you understand the question you asked.

Grow up partner, I didn't ask you the question, I didn't ask you to help me understand anything, I was a GW for 30 years. I retired in Oct. I acknowledged and thanked you when you responded, The talking point statement was not in a reply to you, nor did I say the talking point was bad or accuse anyone of anything. I wasn't asking you for your perspective, I was asking Troy, who I worked with and have known for 30 years, who earned my respect.I'm well aware of the biologists position within the Department.I was asking Troy. You chimed in and got butthurt because I didn't fall all over you and acknowledge your expertise. You are very arrogant young man and forgotten that you work for the hunters, you are not their superior, you are not here to tell them what to do and what to think, you work for them, you have no job without them.

I’m the arrogant one? You’ve never been so wrong about anything in your life as this ridiculous garbage. I’ll not respond to anything else you post. It’s obvious it strikes a nerve for some reason. Thank you for your 30 years of service.

daumn....

red, I spent hundreds of hours studying CWD since 1980. At that time I had access to all of the original writings on it...before the information was scrubbed and cleaned to get the monkey off the State of Cos back. Most of the old stuff, esp Beth Williams stuff is no longer available. And a LOT of the newer stuff is coverup and lies(history part). Damn shame.

I'd bet hard money that Matt knows more about the last 10-15 years of CWD developments than I do, a good bit more.

I have had a good bit of personal conversations with Matt over the last several years and find him to be very knowledgeable and not the least bit arrogant. Yer milage may vary....

Sgtred was one of the good guys in the dept for years.

Ya'll play nice

Mr. Brock , again I made no definitive statements about CWD, I poses a question to Troy, When you answered that question for him I kindly thanked you, and went on to say, I appreciate your answer . I then responded to another fellow that I had already heard those talking points. I then clarified my use of that term, explaining I was asking for other ideas. You are the one who responded to my posts unsolicited and took offense to things I said. I never asked you anything. I stand by my statements to you.last Post on this subject.

Have any of you ever met or listened to Bryan Richards, Emerging Disease Coordinator at the National Wildlife Health Center? He’s a legit authority on CWD. The rest of us are just dilettantes on the subject. I first caught him on the Joe Rogan podcast a couple of years ago. I think the Tube has several of his talks video-archived. Check them out...

Sometimes I wonder why you even try. But thank you for doing it, MBrock.

Well as all things usually go with beaurocratic idealogues. Who claim to have the data and have analyzed the data and have a definitive approach to the answer. Time elapses, lets say a decade. The infected species is abnormalized and there is a strange phonomenen affecting the humans that consumed meat from infected animals harvested years earlier. It is not even safe to eat fish regularly from local lakes and rivers. Who is to say that venison consumed today from a supposed safe deer will not kill you in the future.

X2

I have. He’s the picture of a scientist, chooses his words carefully to avoid saying something that isn’t supported by evidence and points out where it isn’t. I enjoy listening to him, Rogan needs to have him back for an update.