Skyline WMA

Seen pics of a nice buck killed there today. Surprised nobody's posted them yet 🤔

Seen them myself. Ol dude hit the skyline lottery.

Absolute giant it’s on the dnr website so it should be ok to post .

That's a heck of buck

That there is a dandy

[img]https://www.instagram.com/p/BNX_nQdj1M_/?utm_source=ig_embed[/img]

That's gotta be bankhead lol

Thats a dang good deer, but as said above..he hit the lottery. I dont know if they had a rifle hunt this weekend,tho im assuming they did because i was up that way hunting and i bet i saw 50 trucks in and around scottsborro pullin 4 wheelers an treestands..not to menrion all the ones i passed on my way there headin back to central marshall county

Escapee from one of those inbreeding deer farms.

Nice buck right there.

The taxidermist that is mounting it posted on FB that it scored 165 6/8.

If they had a gun hunt this weekend, I didn't hear a shot fired. That buck wasn't killed far from where i had the little 7pt bed up with me.

Huh????

That rascal must have jumped somebody's high fence

me too D...

Something something mounting the deer.

So....What are you trying to say....SHITTHOUSE luck or what...

You know which zone of management area the deer was killed on?

Would've been a goodun next year.

Every big deer killed in AL is an escaped captive. That makes me laugh.

Nice Buck!

Did you get well CRIP?

They ain no nice deer in alabama...only big spikes and little spikes

Dang right

TN Deer genes if I had to guess. I am not saying we can't grow bigger deer in AL because we can. But we will have to change our habits. That's not the point.

TN can keep it's deer in TN bout like you can keep them on your property.... They are rutting on the other side of the mountain.

Nice kill. Congrats to this fella.

where did all those monster bucks killed before high fences escape FROM?????

I’m not sure. I just scored two huge deer yesterday, and saw a local collection that included a 167, 172 and 190 that we’re all killed in the 90s and early 2000s. Guess they were escaped captives or TN deer too. Lol.

One thing they ALL have in common is they’re all 5-8 years old. I stand by my comment that trail cams keep us from having really big deer. Everybody does their dead level best to kill every 4 year old they see. Some have gotten dang good at it. If you wanna kill 150”+ deer you gotta let them see 5+

If you want to kill a 120 inch deer you gotta let them see 3.5 just the same. We don't even do that around this State.

Help us out Matt. Help put an end to the "see deer, shoot deer" mentality you guys have bred with all this free range doe blasting y'all allow.

We can grow decent deer in this State, not 200 inchers but respectible deer..... but not under the current regs and bag limits.

I have a 170ish inch killed in Jefferson County hit by a car last year. Looked to be about a 5 year old nothing special just a healthy deer. The reason we don't have more 120+ inch deer running around this State is because they get shot.

Period. End of Story.

The deer just North of Skyline / Hytop on Carter came from the deer released just South of the border which came from LA. I can show you a gross 180 that was one of the young bucks released at the second restocking of Skyline . Where did the big buck genes from Lower PRV come from, North and Central Sand Mt? Bout 6-8 years ago back to back Harbin deer contest winners came from central Sand Mt. How bout central Jackson County 15 miles either direction of Belfonte , they have some native genes in them , this was told to me by Chris Cook. Very few people knew there were a few native deer up and down the river before restocking. River people like commercial fishermen did.

It is 32.4 miles from Winchester to Skyline.

To think the genetic influence of deer stocked North of the State line on essentially the same mountain 50 years ago have not gone 30 miles is....

Well, Stoopid.


Take special note to Figure 3 there 2Dogs. The influence from TN deer is all up and down the Valley IMO. I'll go with logic over some tall tale you herd:

Nobody in this thread suggested that deer haven’t moved 30 or even 50 miles. I certainly didn’t. But to think every big deer killed in AL is a descendent of a restocked deer from up north is even more well, what you said. There are Dang fine deer killed every year in this state, and a whole heck of a lot of them have been killed this year, that are nothing more than native deer with age. Some of the best deer killed every year are killed in counties with little to no restocking documented. I worked on Black Warrior WMA, where some of the best deer from the whole state are killed annually. They still have genetic influences from Michigan deer. But, you travel 100 miles in every direction and there’s deer equally as impressive killed that come from what God put here in AL. I remember why I quit wasting my time posting on this know it all board now. Y’all carry on. I’ve got meaningful things to do.

MBrock, how many do you reckon die of old age and squirrels eat their horns? I think most folks might be surprised how many big bucks are right here and nobody ever sees them. I dont know where they go or come from but ill get a picture or two of atleast one deer every year that makes every other deer look like babies. The kind of deer you know youd hear about if somebody killed it

Just so you guys know, my first post on this thread was of total sarcasm. Just so you know...

Hey Mbrock, do you have any idea where the deer in SE Alabama were stocked from? I've always wondered.

Pump the brakes here just a dern minute:

I never said that every big deer in this State was from Up North or somewhere else.

Never even implied that.


What I said was the deer from Skyline likely has some TN influence because they stocked deer with better genetics within 30 miles of where it was killed.


There is no disagreement between us Mbrock. Alabama can grow respectable deer if they some how can make it to maturity. Your agency has made that unlikely.

Where we disagree based on recent commentary is your agency believes shooting more "deer" leads to older age class bucks and I think that is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my life. 100% dumb as shait. But we went over that already.

Here is what I said:

What tall tale , I posed facts, most from DCNR. Show me . That about 6 years ago a clean monster 5X4 was killed near Pisgah that was in the 170's ? There's been bucks killed in the city limits of Scottsboro bigger than the one this weekend from Skyline.

You need to read the paragraph just above figure 3 , the part about where the state of Tennessee thinks the only area that still has Wisconsin gene influence is . Marion County is not a surrounding county of Cumberland and Morgan counties. Way my simple mind deciphers it is Tenn DCNR doesn't think there's still an influence in Marion and that's where a few were released. Do some research on the high end bucks out of the Cumberland and Morgan counties area, they are superior to Marion's offerings. That's the area Bobby Worthington killed some of the largest bow kills in the state.

In the sample deer y'all have taken from Belfonte NP and the Jones Farm in Lower PRV, have you ever detected "Northern Genes"? Or any other locale for that matter where they can be traced to Marion County TN?

Heck yeah! What a buck deer! Congratulations to the hunter.

2Dogs, we did genetic testing several years ago with MSU. The only location I remember still having genetic markers similar to their stocking source was Bankhead. Most other deer populations in the south don’t show any genetic markers to their stocking source. Most deer are what they are, natives from the remnants of what was left before stocking or a hodgepodge of different stocking sources. I’ll see if I can locate the full report.

Goatkiller, that’s not an official policy of the state. It’s a management scenario I recommend on some properties. Not all. Not even most. We make recommendations according to what ppl want to see. We base that off of individual objectives. If you want to grow and see more mature deer there are other things you have to sacrifice. If you want to hunt and have a good time and occasionally kill a mature deer that’s MUCH different than an advanced QDM or TDM property. The state is not in the business of managing for trophies. That’s your job as a landowner. We have a 3 buck limit. You get to decide which 3 bucks you kill. If you want them all to be 120”+ I’d suggest locating a property that provides that opportunity. It’s not something the state is going to mandate over the general hunting public.

Never mind, I found what I was looking for. Looks like mostly Clarke county...very few introduced from out of state, according to my source.

I believe the larger antlered bucks taken in Jackson Co. and close proximity are the products of age and nutrition using the genes stocked from LA and what native deer were still around. There's pretty good nutrition in the limestone hills and soils along the Tenn River. And lord knows we have the hiding places to allow some to grow old enough to maximize their genetic make up. Back before they were restocked from LA they might have shown the same antler size had the lived long enough and gotten better nutrition . Everytime a full grown buck hit's the ground in Ol' Hi-Jackson it doesn't have "Northern Genes" That's not to say it couldn't be an influence in a small area in NJ, maybe. That's my logic and I'm sticking to it.

To me the difference in Jackson county and most other surrounding counties, comes down to below.

Good genetics
Good feed, agriculture and acorns. Not pines
Good soil along the TN river, could go with above statement
Relatively low human population, with largest city of Scottsboro. Also one of the larger counties in AL.
Excellent terrain features to allow hard hunter access, which allows an older buck class structure
From my experience, *in general*, show a little more trigger restraint. I think that decision is made by the above factors and hope of a big buck.

If you can consistently kill mature mountain bucks in Jackson county in 50,000 acre blocks of woods you can kill deer anywhere in the United States . Same goes for turkeys Come kill you a limit of Appalachian foothill birds in a season and you are one of the elite turkey hunters in the country .

Were iare bankhead and skyline located? What weapons are people using primarily on these places.

Gulf Shores/Orange Beach area

Primitive weapons only

Just an FYI, the local biologist aged this buck at 3.5 and so did the taxidermist.

Bring lots of food. No where to eat down there at all.

I don't know the dates through which the data was compiled but the AL whitetail records has published a map of the state by county record book deer. To my knowledge this is 150 inch deer or larger. It was in AON magazine so y'all get mad if you want about what I'm going to post here but it is public knowledge.

Bankhead (Winston) has genetic markers for northern deer ( admitted previously in this thread ) and has produced 31% fewer record book deer than Jackson.

The good soil in the PRV you can see out your truck window. Mountain dirt is poor dirt I've never heard anyone in my entire life say mountain dirt is good dirt that is a first.

Dallas county has good dirt. Black Belt. They have produced 44% fewer record book deer than Jackson Co. Call me crazy - but that's an example of predominately Alabama genetics.

If you want to believe these record book deer came from genetics derived from a couple native AL deer hiding in a slew down by the TN river that's fine with me.

If you want to believe these genetics came from deer from Mobile that's fine too. What happened to the rest of the State?

What I know is that TN stocked the deer less than 30 miles away from in-state sources. They stocked Middle TN with deer from Ft. Campbell. Those deer were from TX and Oklahoma. TWRA states plain as day the majority of their deer's genetics are North Carolina, TX and OK.

Calcium actually binds to the tannin in acorns and inhibits antler growth.

I heard Dr. Grant Woods say that. He said acorns to deer are like fudge to us. They'll eat it up, but that doesn't mean it's good for them.

Yes..rocks and spears..

North slope mountain dirt grows enough types of flora to keep a botanist busy for a lifetime. You gotta be goofy if you don’t think there’s any rich soil anywhere in these mountains.

Very true Brent. Not uncommon to have 40+ different species on a 1/100th acre plot(which is a 11.78’ radius plot) on a North facing slope close to a big drain. Find the ginseng or any of the trillium species and you find good dirt is a good rule of thumb.

I would think this helps a little as well, “The top 5 soybean producing counties in Alabama are Jackson, Madison, Baldwin, Limestone and DeKalb counties”.

That mountain soil in Jackson co is extremely fertile

You stay out of jackson county...too much killin like it is😁

Y'all need to start bagging that Jackson County dirt and selling it next to the bags of corn in neighboring counties and you can probably retire within a year.
I need royalties for the idear.

Jackson county dirt...what about jackson county cwd testerd breeder deer pen dirt..so the genetics can just filter up through there noistrils while they eatz corn....$1500 per bag...maybe mix it with some...call it racker attacker soily corn snacker...trademarked..and patent pending

Do any of y'all know the story of how Skyline, AL came to be established?

No, but id like to hear it.

The Skyline Farms project during the depression? I’ve heard old timers talk about it but I’ve never studied up on it. I’m bored at work today, I may look into it.

Skyline farm

Very intresting

Just saw it scored at 166 6/8, and it was killed with a muzzle loader. Heck of a deer!

Yep

Socialism put to the test thanks to FDR and proof that it fails when "big government" tries to run things and help.

Truth!

A 5 minute glance at the soil survey of Jackson County says:

Everything BUT the bottomland is classified as Sandstone Plateaus and Rough Mountain Slopes. The bottomland is undulating and designated as limestone valley. It is very fertile everyone knows river bottom land is good dirt.

But y'all are talking about mountain dirt:

"On the higher areas most of the parent material has remained in place where it was weathered from rock. Soils formed under these conditions are commonly designated as soils of the upland and are classified as soils of limestone valley uplands or sandstone plateaus. In general, the soils over sandstone, shale, interbedded shale and limestone and interbedded shale and sandstone are shallow to bedrock and moderate to low in fertility. Their slope ranges from undulating to very steep."

"low in fertility"

Some of y'all should work for MSNBC. You've missed your calling.

Goat killer I can’t tell if you are serious or fishing 🎣 there is every type soil from red clay,actual sand,sandy loam , pure rock &black dirt in jackson county . Even on the mountaintops .

No good deer , or soil in Jackson county people. Move on along. Next thread.

I’d definitely take the internets advice over landowners, farmers, and biologists about soil type, and then type it out on a public forum.
Did somebody mention MSNBC??

Yeah , that poor Northern and Eastern aspect soil on mountains along the Cumberlands is where some of the best hardwood on the planet grows. Not only is it good, many areas it grows pretty fast, allowing saw log harvest every 20-25 years. Cha-Ching.

Yep, and there was a couple more of them in other parts of the country , I think they failed quicker than Skyline.

There’s a historical marker in front of the old Skyline school that tells you about it. I had no idea until I read it and Anthony ( 2Dogs ) gave me a history lesson on the area. Very interesting.

We all know growing large antlered bucks is a three legged stool , it takes nutrition , age and genetics . Goatkiller's theory appears to be only Northern genes from Marion Co. TN. Northern influence that the State of TN says is no longer exists in the area on their side of the state line. Northern genes Alabama says is only found in the Bankhead area. He's now discounting good soil ,which translates into good nutrition in the area. Next it will be there is no good cover to allow bucks to get some age on them in the rugged and remote areas of the Northeast corner of the state.

Age

X2

Biologist aged it at 3.5

All incorrect.

Deer were released in Franklin County and Marion Counties in TN from Ft. Campbell. Those deer came from TX and Oklahoma. They were released closer than 30 miles from the area we are discussing into the same mountains. Look at a map.

TWRA says the deer in their State are TX and Oklahoma genes. The only native deer are East TN up in the Smokies. Read something before posting garbage that is incorrect but fit's a narrative.

Soil fertility on the side of a Mountain in Jackson County is junk compared to Black Belt land. Dallas Co is universally recognized as one of the State's best areas with native genetics and fertile soils... Yet as I stated earlier Dallas County has produced 44% fewer record book deer than Jackson.

Y'alls argument is that there is no influence from an entire herd of deer established less than 30 miles away with much better genetics. That's what you are arguing if you can't follow yourself. Which some of y'all can't obviously.


I have backed up everything I have posted with references to factual data and provided the source. You are arguing against the U.S. Geological Survey published by the Government, The TWRA and the AL Whitetail Records.

I'm just stating facts. Nobody else is. Prove what you say.


CNN has a job opening.


Go.

Here’s one that will blow your mind goatkiller........ there are plenty of folks that would argue that the little pocket of native deer in Jackson county around the Tennessee River has better genetics than the imported “northern deer” you keep mentioning.
Of course they can’t show you a book that says that. They’ve just seen the deer.

I’ve seen them, but I can’t prove they are native vs spread from TN. I believe I’d trust the people that’s been hunting and owning land in the area for 50 years over a book. Do we know exact location(s) and what years these TX/OK deer were released? After hunting about 7 years up on Jacobs Mountain and 3 more years down by Tennesse River, I feel like there were two different looking deer I would kill, just on the Jacobs Mountain Tract. I killed several bucks over 200 lbs that seemed to have bodies that were longer and racks tended to be high and tight with more mass. I also killed several that were 150-170 lbs that just simply looked smaller, shorter, and seemed to have wider racks with less mass. And I’m not comparing 2 yos to 5 yos. I had gazillions of pictures of the deer I’m talking about.

You'd trust people that have been hunting the land?

I've been hunt on the TN side of the same mountains my whole life. I have also hunted all of Jackson. Be hunting there on the TN side Thursday morning. 12.8 miles from Estillfork by the way the Crow Flies.

If I could ever get 2Dogs to just send me a map of his property I could show him some good places to hunt.

What year did these deer from TX/OK get released? Are they killing the same quality of deer in Franklin and Marion County where they were released? I know Lincoln County does, but what about the counties north and east of the release points? Or do they only spread south? 2dogs doesn’t have any reason to tell you where his land is.

The answers to those questions are self explanatory if you care to research it.

This is 2Dogs and his couple equally expert on everything sidekick's argument. If they can't come up with anything better what someone heard from a commercial fisherman down at the boat ramp by the TN river then I guess we are done here.

We see just the opposite where I’m at in Tennessee

Our are heavily influenced by the Alabama restocking in Lauderdale. On my side of TN HWY 13 (17 in Alabama), the body sizes are smaller and antlers per age class than west of the HWY. the west side is influenced by the Wisconsin and Ft Campbell strains as well I’m sure of the northern strain restocked at Lauderdale WMA.

Alabama restocked I believe Coosa County deer according to their site just below the state line.

The rut in both sides vary from extreme late November to mid/late December like Lauderdale county in Alabama. Who knows why

Go north of Hwy 64 and it’s mid November from there to Canada.

I have officially scored , multiple 160 inch bucks and literally a pile between 140 and 160 gross and you're gonna show me where to hunt on my own property , now that's rich. I'm now 100% positive YOU ARE FULL OF $HIT !

Chris Cook says DNA samples taken from Bellfefonte Nuclear Plant confirms there are native genes in the area. I guess you know more than Chris Cook and his team of Biologists .

Casey, Jacobs Mountain is just bout 1/2 way between where they were released at Hytop and the Jones farm. I think the deer in those two releases came from different locations in LA . Just saying.

Surely you ain't just now figuring that out.

This made me laugh

We never started really. Nobody up this way has paid any attention to your bloviating for quite some time now.

Now this made me laugh.

Here's the question we all want to know the answer to, WHAT THE HELL DOES IT MATTER WHERE THEY CAME FROM? They're here and now.