Farming Ag Fields vs Managing Wildlife Plots

Do you see there being a difference in the two?..............Should wildlife managers be “farming” for wildlife and mimicking what the farmer does? Is that the best approach to managing wildlife plots in your opinion?

Just for a couple examples to scratch the surface and get the conversation started....The thread on hairy vetch got me to thinking about this.....If hairy vetch is a bad option for the farmer....then is it also a bad option for the wildlife manager?....Should we approach "weeds" the same way the farmer does? If the farmer says pigweed or thistle is bad....then is it also bad for the wildlife manager?

Benton Farms between Selma and Montgomery on Hwy 80 (once the largest cotton farm in the state) was founded by the grandfather of the two current operators. He came to the area and found a lot of "worn out" dirt. He planted vetch and then turned it under when it got big to restore some organic matter to the soil. I probably have some of these facts a little off, and I'm sure 257 will be along directly to clarify.

The patriarch claimed the vetch improved the soil tremendously. His grandson's were also pioneers of the no-till movement in the Central Alabama area.

As to your second question, yes. Managing the soil health is as important as anything else we do. Farmers (good ones anyway) are extremely interested and involved in the soil health on their farms. We should be too if we want the maximum return (bigger, healthier deer) from our lease investment.

Two completely different things IMO. If i'm growing food, I want every inch of the field planted for volume. With a plot I don't have to have every square inch planted. I don't mind weeds, because neither do the deer. In some cases, deer like the weeds as well, if not better than what we have planted. I would agree that soil health is key to both being successful.

Similar , yet different, I'd say kinda like managing beef cattle V milk cattle. They're both cattle , some things would be the same , some different.

Hairy vetch isn’t bad for farmers, it depends on what your goals are and how you manage it. I like to use it as a companion with clover and rye or oats to make a mulch for no till vegetables and corn but to wheat and strawberry farmers it’s a weed that needs to be eliminated as to your larger point i don’t manage my food plots as intensely as cash crops but do give them a fighting chance, a few weeds don’t upset me unless it’s pigweed. I’m beginning to believe cover is more important for me to others food may be more important.

Pigweed can be a pain in the butt but everywhere I've ever had it, the deer loved it, especially if its in a fertilized plot. First time I realized deer ate it was in a chufa plot. Every time I checked on the chufas, there were deer in the plot. I eventually realized they were browsing on the pigweed

Clarify. There’s redroot pigweed. Not so bad. Then there’s Palmer pigweed. Public enemy #1. It’s from the devil himself.

Yep. I feel the same way about ragweed I know deer will browse but I can’t even breathe when I see that stuff.

Heck no. It’s awful too

Its redroot pigweed. I'm not a fan, but we have it in summer plots. We try to control it but every plant I see has been browsed on by deer. I'd damn sure trade our sickle pod for it and be real happy

My idea of managing food plots has changed tremendously over the last decade and its still evolving even now. I see there being a lot of similarities in what we do as wildlife managers compared to the farmer but I see a lot of differences as well. One of the biggest differences is that the farmer likes everything to be nice and neat….while the food plot manager would probably benefit from just the opposite….even though many folks still want to mimic the neat clean fields of the farmer. I’m far enough along in my soil rebuilding process that I think I can probably grow a pretty decent field by simply broadcasting my seed before a good rain. All of the conditions and variables of my field should set up well for that. What I’m looking at now is incorporating “structure” into my food plots instead of having them be bare open circles. 2dogs and others compared deer to fish in one of the other recent threads and talked about how each one liked to use structure. However, how many of us are making food plots that mimic a pond that’s nothing but a bare clean circle….like for watering cattle. Is that how you would set up a killer bass pond?

I think I’m gonna try leaving the “structure” this year……….

Harold, I thought a couple years ago you left some strips of dog fennel in your plot behind your house, but you noticed that the deer didn't like being in it with their head down. Or am I remembering that wrong? You leaving strips this year or just a screen around it?

You’re right… I forgot about that. For whatever reason….the grain inside the strips did not get browsed as hard as the open areas. I attributed it to them feeling vulnerable as prey….kinda like a turkey does....and preferring a little space between them and the thick areas where they could be ambushed when they had their heads down. I’m just sitting here thinking though…the pic of those deer is twenty yards in front of my stand…..If I go mow all of that cover down and open it up….would he still walk that same line afterwards?....Likely not. I was thinking about just filling the hopper up on the tractor and broadcasting seed in amongst all of it…trying to avoid taking down the dog fennel and other plants that are giving the field some structure. I have dead hay across the whole field just under knee high that should protect the seed and create a greenhouse effect underneath. I think there’s enough light getting through for the grain to establish and once it does the deer will beat down the rest of the hay. I do wonder if they’ll feel as secure feeding in it though now that you mention that other experiment.

I’ve got an idea Blum…….Now that baiting is legal anyways……I’m gonna mix in a couple hundred pounds of corn with a couple hundred pounds of seed and use the deer to help me plant. About to plant my field using dgallow’s mob grazing technique he uses with cattle. The deer should beat down the hay and hoof my seed into the soil enough to get things established. Watch this!!!

Costa to much to plant a crop for deer in a traditional farming style. Seasonal burning wouldnbe tha most cost effective method. Plus droughts wont cost as much in the end.

My answer to this question is its all about your spceific situation. Whats your property, topography, soil, field size, financial, equipment and so on situations. All these are the main factors that dictate want a person can do on his property. The biggest problem I see that wildlife managers make is to try to do something on thier property that they saw on TV or read in QDMA that somebody is doing in Illinois or Iowa. When I look a a piece of property I always start with the cheepest and easiest thing to fix not get my drill and plant 40ac of beans. There are so many factors the go into I can't cover them all but the most important thing I tell people is plant what grows best on your place in your soil and think about quality tonage first not attraction and everything will work its self out. Now as far as my place no club, no pay hunts, and no guest, just me and my partner on thousands of acres with a big budget and big boy farm equipment and dozers and big fields in great soil. I basically row crop farm 50 to 80 acres every year mainly planting forage soybeans because fake farming is my passion. I turned every field thats less them 2ac into ladino clover fields years ago. All the big fields are beans and every fall I over seed the clover plots with wheat and Elbon lightly and take portions of the big beans fields this year the whloe fields and over seed Elbon and drill all kinds of suff. I use corn and egyption wheat as brakes and edges in large field but our deer aren't pressured and will just walk out in the middle of a 15ac field anyhow. We have about 100ac in plots or AG of some kind and would have more but my partners family has cow on some of his place. The size of the field basically dictates what we do if its small we lean toward perenial legumes if its big 5ac plus we put beans in it and cover crop it in the fall. This is a short explanation of what we do AG and Plot planting not the whole shabang alot more goes into it. Our place is bad to the bone because of a lot of factors but being able to grow a pile of soybeans every year is definitely a big key to the size of our deer and all the small clover fields really help during a time of year they have nothing else to eat. I do understand that we are the exception to the rule and are extremely blessed to have what we have essentially at an age we can enjoy it.

I also haven't plowed anything other then fire lanes in 4 year and my soil fertility and health is through the roof. I no till and throw and mow/cover crop everything inculde ladino clover field and yes they look unbelievable. Ive had guest hunt my place and couldn't believe that I didn't plow the fields they look so good. My soil Ph average on 15 fields that total about 100ac is 6.9. I have a 20 foot IH fold out disc and a 7 1/2 brown so I don't do it because I have to I don't plow because its the best way to go.

If we had to go back to tillage in farming they’d all quit. If I had to go back to tillage in deer plots I’d quit hunting. Tillage is needed in some spots in some cases but not wall to wall like the old days. And even zone tillage is about all we’ll do

You hit the nail on the head. The only reasoy I would plow is if a field was to ruff to drive a tractor over just to level it out then no till from then on. Im like you I couldn't imagine lfe without my 10 foot 1590 with the native grass box it makes my old TYE drill feel like a 2 row Covington planter.

This is spot on here ^^^^^^^^

Something else I see happening a lot too is that everyone of these videos or ads selling seed and equipment are always filmed on some plot on some high dollar farm that has the best dirt in four counties. They show the process and then present the results as if it were all because they used the “Plotmaster 3000” or the “Big Buck Seed Blend”….$29.99 retail……..When in actuality, the results were far more due to the great natural dirt they were plotting in. Folks watch them and then try to replicate it on their old worn out sand pits thinking that the plotmaster 3000 or big buck blend is all they need to grow plots just the same. It’s a bit of a sham. Let’s take those same products and go film a few episodes at a random hunting club on a random food plot like most folks are actually dealing with. Now that I might be excited to see the results of.

Strong dirt covers up many a farmers (or plotters) mistakes. Put a poor farmer on strong dirt and he can make it. Put a great farmer on marginal dirt and that’s a spectacle to watch make it work.

No different from seeing hunting tactics on TV in Illinois and seeing a giant buck come to the super plot , passed the same tree, at the same time every afternoon. Then the TV star has super buck munch his way to him , stop raise his head look right at him and pose for the shot. Exact reason I quit watching hunting TV years ago, it's hunting Hollywood.

I have t had the outdoor channel or others for 2 years now and I don’t miss it. But I don’t hunt much anymore either

24 petrol station near me

We have kinda been keeping this under our hats so far.
But, we are working real hard to improve the soil on our place. Most people have no real concept of planting in ‘Sandy Soil’ until they actually see it. It provides some unique challenges! To show what we are starting with, this is a plot that has not been disced since last Sept. it was mowed once and burnt down with Gly before no-tilling last weekend. We have designed a seed mix that should help and are applying some products from a resident guru that may, or may not, decide to chime in. That is on him!
But, we have ‘bought in’ and I am trying to document the Progress with pics, notes and soil samples. I hope to have good things to report in the future!!

From what I’ve seen through traveling around blood tracking for folks is that a LOT of folks actually do have a concept of what its like plotting in sand……it’s just than very few of them know how to deal with it. All we’ve ever been taught is the traditional methods of tillage and results are vastly different in sandy fields using those methods as opposed to when used in what 257 called strong dirt. I think most folks have just accepted chitty results as the norm and don’t know any better. The funny thing about it is that if you start talking about alternative methods that would help them out….most folks will look at you like your crazy….like there’s no other way. Human psychology is a fascinating subject and plays as much of a role in all of this as soil science does.

For example, there will be some people who will never accept or even begin to consider doing things a different way no matter how many success stories get posted up. It’s all psychological too. It’s as if their brain can’t allow it to be real. Doing so would cause a major conflict with what they have always perceived and had ingrained in them as “the right way”. I actually find the phycological aspect of all of this to be more interesting than the soil science. Soil science is kinda boring really but to watch humans mentally deal with change is far more entertaining.

Good luck with your fields Hogwild…..Grass biomass is your best friend in the beginning

I’m betting 70% of clubs have never soil sampled either. PH, EC, OM etc. throw money up a hogs ass.

Preach!!

The vast majority of the ones on sandy soil are likely gonna have an OM% that comes back <1% and that will be the root cause of most of their issues.

But my grand daddy said to just put out triple 13...........

Triple 13 has to be the most over rated and over used fertilizer in history.

You can’t get out enough plant food using triple 13 economically. It’s nice being able to blend a 40-30-30 or what ever and not break the bank.

It entertaining trying to explain to someone that N leaches so fast that they don't even measure it in a standard soil test, they just give you recommendations based on crop/soil type etc. And that P leaches so slow you can actually build toxicity if you actually used enough triple 13 to give your crops the amount of nitrogen it needed. But people are extremely set in their ways when it comes to planting. Before i saw the light we starting doing soil samples finally and found we had unreal high levels of P in most of our fields because it had always just gotten triple 13 even with the people who owned it before us. I think it took 5 or 6 years before i ever had to put P in a field.

Its also mind boggling why people wont at least try the throw n mow or something similar on a field or two just to see if they like it. It is just so much easier and quicker. I have dumbed our planting down so far at this point that we can plant all of our stuff in less than a full day. Used to take 2 tractors 2 weekends. I had to use that strategy with my dad, just let me try it on 2 fields and see what you think, then it was half the fields and now its all and he actually sold the tiller and may be selling the disc. It is just so easy. Especially since you are just feeding a dang deer.

Sold my disk last week.

I feel you on that one. I’ve sat back and been baffled many times reading threads where folks are going to all kinds of extraordinary lengths to keep doing it the old way and at no point do they ever even entertain the idea of trying something different. It seems so simple but yet its not due to the psychology of it. Add male pride to that it makes it all the more interesting to watch. It’ll get really entertaining in another 5-10 years when these ideas become the norm and yet there’s still folks clinging on to the old ways only because changing would in essence mean admitting they might have been wrong.

I thought about selling my disk but decided to hold on to it. Its getting a little rusty but still functional. I see it simply as another tool and I may need to use that tool again someday for a reason I might not foresee yet. It deosn’t necessarily mean that I’m going to till my whole field up….it may just be that maybe I need to process up some biomass a little more than I used to, etc….I don’t know yet where things may eventually take us will all of this.

Our OM was between a low of 0.9 and a high of 1.5.
And, yes, the Phosphate was high.

But, we are working on it.

I haven’t had my OM% checked in a while but through the first 5 or 6 years I was able to raise my OM around 0.7 – 1.0 % annually on average. I was putting down some pretty massive crops of crabgrass and cereal rye each year though. One in the spring and one in the fall.

When I had a farm in Clark County, I only planted Abruzzi Rye and Winter Oats....Never had an unproductive field...Fertilizer was a must!...I planted seed, fertilizer, and ammonia all at the same time...But the best hunting I ever had was in Aliceville ,Al...hunting the big fields that the Mennonites planted was the best.....Peanuts, Corn, and cotton...some shots were up to five hundred yards.....