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QDM in the era of CWD

Posted By: Remington270

QDM in the era of CWD - 07/08/19 03:56 PM

The QDMA mantra has always been to let young bucks walk. The age structure that's best according to them means you have some older bucks that live. Conveniently, this also means that hunters got to shoot bigger bucks, with bigger antlers. This was thought to be biologically responsible, and I'm sure it is, or was.

Now with CWD, the older bucks are the ones that generally carry the disease, and travel further from their home to breed. This, in theory, spreads it further, and quicker. Tennessee now has an "Earn-A-Buck Program". They are encouraging hunters to kill more bucks. A 180 degree reversal from the old way.

Which way is correct? Kill more bucks at a younger age, or kill less bucks and let them get old? I'm sure that bigger antlers complicate our decision making.
Posted By: Hix14

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/08/19 04:57 PM

I'm not so sure we aren't doing both now. Lots of clubs promote killing "mature deer" only, while other clubs go state game law only.

I've said it before that I'd rather see a spike killed versus a 6 point. 6 point is only a year or 2 away. Spike is 3.5 years away. Lot's of folks don't see it that way, but it's MY personal opinion. Oh, and I don't remember the last time I killed a spike or a 6 point.
Posted By: Clem

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/08/19 05:38 PM


The older bucks are more suseptible to CWD, too, from whatever's been researched so far.

I say we shoot what makes us happy, whether it's a spike or 180-inch Booner, and stop trying to "grow big bucks!" all the time.
Posted By: Goatkiller

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/08/19 05:40 PM

Most QDMA clubs shoot all kinds of stuff.. They are typically hail bent on killing does and that means a bunch of buttons get smoked for "meat" and then of course there are the 20 "cull bucks" that they kill every year.

In my opinion you'll find that QDMA clubs that kill more deer than just normal clubs with out real restrictive antler rules.

Why? They incorrectly believe they can effectively manage their deer herd by their trigger finger.

The result is typically fewer deer overall and no better mature bucks getting killed than they would have otherwise.

Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/08/19 05:50 PM

And just how does it spread again?

And what about research with tracking collars that show extensively without questions that old mature bucks move less, and breed in heavy cover and thats why they become old mature bucks?

What about the same studies that show young bucks are more aggressive breeders this have a wider range?

What about research that shows during the rut a buck loses a substantial amount of body weight because they simply don’t eat so they wouldn’t be hanging around other deer?

What about the fact nobody knows how in the hell it spread?

All of this crap is speculation by snot nosed liberal wildlife biologists that don’t know jack crap outside their desk and computer.
Posted By: Remington270

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/08/19 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by JohnnyLoco


All of this crap is speculation by snot nosed liberal wildlife biologists that don’t know jack crap outside their desk and computer.


I've met several state biologists in Alabama and Mississippi, and they know a lot more than I do.

But I do think the game has changed, in terms of what is biologically wise, now that CWD is here.
Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/08/19 06:01 PM

Just because they know the latin name for a buzzard or maggot don’t mean they know crap about hunting or animals.

Its spread how?

Its a plot to control lands and hunters. Luckily I believe in my God given right to feed myself and that would include eating game personnel.


Originally Posted by Remington270
Originally Posted by JohnnyLoco


All of this crap is speculation by snot nosed liberal wildlife biologists that don’t know jack crap outside their desk and computer.


I've met several state biologists in Alabama and Mississippi, and they know a lot more than I do.

But I do think the game has changed, in terms of what is biologically wise, now that CWD is here.

Posted By: AlabamaSwamper

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/08/19 07:08 PM

They don’t know anymore than anyone else on CWD

Pure and simple.

Areas that’s had CWD for decades in the Midwest and plains still have a rather high population of older bucks. They all still have high deer populations in 25 year hot zones. The only decrease in deer numbers was caused by bullets and dumb regulations. Not CWD

That is a fact
Posted By: timbercruiser

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/08/19 11:27 PM

I would guarantee that Blue Tongue kills a LOT more deer every year than CWD.
Posted By: Clem

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/08/19 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by JohnnyLoco
Luckily I believe in my God given right to feed myself and that would include eating game personnel.


How do you cook game personnel? On the grill, smoker, slow cooker or perhaps sous vide?
Posted By: Antlerfluke

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 12:06 AM

Some of you people need to work for CNN. Downplaying biologists' roles or their expertise in wildlife mgmt? Let someone come into a mechanic's, electrician's, Heating & Air guy's, etc... space and that someone start claiming that they know more about those disciplines than the men/women that work in those areas and there would be an uproar.

QDMA is NOT about killing bigger antler bucks. Killing bigger antlered bucks is a bi-product of killing mature bucks. QDMA is about the healthy mgmt of a deer herd. Not Jackie Bushman, "How to kill a big buck!". Deer biologists study deer for a living. They get up in the AM and they study deer. It's their job. I'm amazed at how many people discredit them because the biologists' proven wildlife mgmt principles differ than someone's desire to burn powder. Believe it or not, there are hundreds of thousands of VERY specific and controlled deer studies that have been conducted at universities all over the USA. They study deer as medical professionals and universities study humans. And I don't confuse biologists from MSU, AU, UGA, Universities in TX etc... with liberal biologists from maybe Oregon or USC and that ain't U of South Carolina!

QDMA does NOT prescribe the killing of every doe you see. QDMA strives to keep a deer pop within a given area's carrying capacity and having a more balanced sex ratio with a balanced age structure for biological reasons too long to mention in this reply. If you (or your club) needs to shoot more does, then do it! If not, have the discipline to NOT pull the trigger! And use proven biologically sound methods as to if you need to kill more does or not.

QDMA works and it all ain't about the size of the antlers although ALL of us would rather kill a 130" buck than a 95" buck.

My hunting clubs is a QDMA club and we shoot bucks by age and you CAN age a buck on the hoof. No, my club doesn't like to kill 3.5 yr old bucks and we target 4.5 yr old bucks. We see LOTS of bucks and we kill a good many good quality bucks and NO, all mature bucks are not going to be 140" or better bucks. We kill a lot of 115" bucks that are 4 yrs old and we are happy about killing a trophy 4 yr old buck as that's what he is... a trophy at 4 yrs old.

Are there supposedly "QDMA" clubs that don't do the right thing? YES!! Culls????? That is TDM!!!!! I'm sick of the ignorant hunter or club that claims he or she or they (meaning a club) kills "culls". BS! Culls are for TDM. You ain't going to change genetics killing culls unless you have a high-fence and you control everything. Free-range is a different story.

My club doesn't shoot "culls" and we accidentally shoot very few button bucks because we don't shoot "lone does" as lone does are, 9 time out of 10, button bucks. Education! When someone brings back a button buck, we'll ask: "Was the deer by itself?" More times than not, the answer is yes. There's a biological reason for BB being by themselves. Don't shoot lone deer!! My club's BB numbers went way down when we educated all the hunters in our club.

My hunting club has almost zero turn-over of members. We are happy with what we are doing and greed doesn't sit well with all members. We kill some nice bucks and we SEE A LOT of bucks and if you kill a 4 yr old 4 pt, we're celebrating! If you kill a 2.5 yr old 8 pt, no, we're not happy but we know mistakes happens and mistakes are not hell, fire and damnation.

QDMA works for us. We are NOT a TDM as TDM is something totally different. We don't shoot every doe we see.

If you wanna bash a deer management philosophy, make sure you know what you're talking about. Know what QDMA supports and don't confuse those that practice something else but calls themselves QDMA supporters.

And yes, we let first time buck hunters shoot anything they want, but if the parent would preach a little discipline and patience, the FTBH has a GREAT chance at killing a 3.5 yr old buck. Hunting is no different than life... you get out what you put into it!!! The QDMA's philosophy works so don't show your ignorance by misrepresenting it.

And, without doubt, hunting clubs that practice true QDMA philosophies CAN mange their deer herds by their trigger finger by pulling and NOT pulling it!! When a hunting club with 10 - 20 members has zero or 0.05% turnover, you're doing something right. The number of mature bucks on our property keeps members coming back. And mainly, the member's kids are killing nice bucks with some occasional studs. QDMA's philosophies works for us.

Posted By: bigcountry692001

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 12:41 AM

Originally Posted by JohnnyLoco
Just because they know the latin name for a buzzard or maggot don’t mean they know crap about hunting or animals.

Its spread how?

Its a plot to control lands and hunters. Luckily I believe in my God given right to feed myself and that would include eating game personnel.


Originally Posted by Remington270
Originally Posted by JohnnyLoco


All of this crap is speculation by snot nosed liberal wildlife biologists that don’t know jack crap outside their desk and computer.


I've met several state biologists in Alabama and Mississippi, and they know a lot more than I do.

But I do think the game has changed, in terms of what is biologically wise, now that CWD is here.


There’s a lot of biologist that would disagree with you and probably tell you that you’re a phucking idiot
Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 01:41 AM

You have to bleed them first and then cook them. Every human I bit a chunk out of in combat taste coppery and not too swuft raw.

Originally Posted by Clem
Originally Posted by JohnnyLoco
Luckily I believe in my God given right to feed myself and that would include eating game personnel.


How do you cook game personnel? On the grill, smoker, slow cooker or perhaps sous vide?
Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 01:44 AM

Antlerfluke, I know plenty of high school drop out mechanics and HVAC folk that don’t know their ass from a hat. I even beat one down right after I retired because I wanted one quart of synthetic mixed with my regular oil. He got pissed because he thought he knew better and made the mistake of coming for me with a crowded waiting room. He lost everything, got locked up, drank from a straw for a while, is blind in one eye now, and I sued him and the Jiffy Lube, and won.

I only knock liberal biologists having a role in hunting programs.

I don’t give a rat’s behind about herd management for large racks or healthy herd and if Alabama did they wouldn’t have passed baiting. Baiting just artificially ups the numbers of all animals by supplementing the food source beyond what is naturally sustainable. Same thing with minorities and white trash !!!!

HOW IS CWD SPREAD AGAIN???
Posted By: dead_eye

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 01:57 AM

Damn there's a lot of words in this thread. I'm just going to shoot whatever I want within the legal boundaries. It ain't that difficult.
Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by dead_eye
Damn there's a lot of words in this thread. I'm just going to shoot whatever I want within the legal boundaries. It ain't that difficult.


You would think that should be good enough but our sport is increasingly under fire from liberals, know it alls, and supremacy.

You need a matrix to map out all of the waterfowl hunting rules these days.
Posted By: Remington270

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 02:03 AM

Originally Posted by Antlerfluke
Some of you people need to work for CNN. Downplaying biologists' roles or their expertise in wildlife mgmt? Let someone come into a mechanic's, electrician's, Heating & Air guy's, etc... space and that someone start claiming that they know more about those disciplines than the men/women that work in those areas and there would be an uproar.

QDMA is NOT about killing bigger antler bucks. Killing bigger antlered bucks is a bi-product of killing mature bucks. QDMA is about the healthy mgmt of a deer herd. Not Jackie Bushman, "How to kill a big buck!". Deer biologists study deer for a living. They get up in the AM and they study deer. It's their job. I'm amazed at how many people discredit them because the biologists' proven wildlife mgmt principles differ than someone's desire to burn powder. Believe it or not, there are hundreds of thousands of VERY specific and controlled deer studies that have been conducted at universities all over the USA. They study deer as medical professionals and universities study humans. And I don't confuse biologists from MSU, AU, UGA, Universities in TX etc... with liberal biologists from maybe Oregon or USC and that ain't U of South Carolina!

QDMA does NOT prescribe the killing of every doe you see. QDMA strives to keep a deer pop within a given area's carrying capacity and having a more balanced sex ratio with a balanced age structure for biological reasons too long to mention in this reply. If you (or your club) needs to shoot more does, then do it! If not, have the discipline to NOT pull the trigger! And use proven biologically sound methods as to if you need to kill more does or not.

QDMA works and it all ain't about the size of the antlers although ALL of us would rather kill a 130" buck than a 95" buck.

My hunting clubs is a QDMA club and we shoot bucks by age and you CAN age a buck on the hoof. No, my club doesn't like to kill 3.5 yr old bucks and we target 4.5 yr old bucks. We see LOTS of bucks and we kill a good many good quality bucks and NO, all mature bucks are not going to be 140" or better bucks. We kill a lot of 115" bucks that are 4 yrs old and we are happy about killing a trophy 4 yr old buck as that's what he is... a trophy at 4 yrs old.

Are there supposedly "QDMA" clubs that don't do the right thing? YES!! Culls????? That is TDM!!!!! I'm sick of the ignorant hunter or club that claims he or she or they (meaning a club) kills "culls". BS! Culls are for TDM. You ain't going to change genetics killing culls unless you have a high-fence and you control everything. Free-range is a different story.

My club doesn't shoot "culls" and we accidentally shoot very few button bucks because we don't shoot "lone does" as lone does are, 9 time out of 10, button bucks. Education! When someone brings back a button buck, we'll ask: "Was the deer by itself?" More times than not, the answer is yes. There's a biological reason for BB being by themselves. Don't shoot lone deer!! My club's BB numbers went way down when we educated all the hunters in our club.

My hunting club has almost zero turn-over of members. We are happy with what we are doing and greed doesn't sit well with all members. We kill some nice bucks and we SEE A LOT of bucks and if you kill a 4 yr old 4 pt, we're celebrating! If you kill a 2.5 yr old 8 pt, no, we're not happy but we know mistakes happens and mistakes are not hell, fire and damnation.

QDMA works for us. We are NOT a TDM as TDM is something totally different. We don't shoot every doe we see.

If you wanna bash a deer management philosophy, make sure you know what you're talking about. Know what QDMA supports and don't confuse those that practice something else but calls themselves QDMA supporters.

And yes, we let first time buck hunters shoot anything they want, but if the parent would preach a little discipline and patience, the FTBH has a GREAT chance at killing a 3.5 yr old buck. Hunting is no different than life... you get out what you put into it!!! The QDMA's philosophy works so don't show your ignorance by misrepresenting it.

And, without doubt, hunting clubs that practice true QDMA philosophies CAN mange their deer herds by their trigger finger by pulling and NOT pulling it!! When a hunting club with 10 - 20 members has zero or 0.05% turnover, you're doing something right. The number of mature bucks on our property keeps members coming back. And mainly, the member's kids are killing nice bucks with some occasional studs. QDMA's philosophies works for us.




Everybody knows what QDM is. I started the thread because CWD appears to throw a monkey wrench in the "older bucks are better" mentality.

....and yes I understand CWD is incompletely understood. If we all understood it, we wouldn't have to talk about it.
Posted By: dead_eye

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 02:20 AM

Originally Posted by JohnnyLoco
Originally Posted by dead_eye
Damn there's a lot of words in this thread. I'm just going to shoot whatever I want within the legal boundaries. It ain't that difficult.


You would think that should be good enough but our sport is increasingly under fire from liberals, know it alls, and supremacy.

You need a matrix to map out all of the waterfowl hunting rules these days.


You're right about the waterfowl. You need a PHD to be legal. It's taken the fun out of ot for me.
Posted By: AU338MAG

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 02:30 AM

Originally Posted by JohnnyLoco
And just how does it spread again?

And what about research with tracking collars that show extensively without questions that old mature bucks move less, and breed in heavy cover and thats why they become old mature bucks?

What about the same studies that show young bucks are more aggressive breeders this have a wider range?

What about research that shows during the rut a buck loses a substantial amount of body weight because they simply don’t eat so they wouldn’t be hanging around other deer?

What about the fact nobody knows how in the hell it spread?

All of this crap is speculation by snot nosed liberal wildlife biologists that don’t know jack crap outside their desk and computer.

I agree 100% All of the little deer that show up pre rut could be from 5 miles away. They're young dumb bucks just roaming anywhere they smell some tail. Big boys stay home until the real rut begins.
Posted By: Clem

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 02:45 AM

Originally Posted by JohnnyLoco
You have to bleed them first and then cook them. Every human I bit a chunk out of in combat taste coppery and not too swuft raw.

Originally Posted by Clem
Originally Posted by JohnnyLoco
Luckily I believe in my God given right to feed myself and that would include eating game personnel.


How do you cook game personnel? On the grill, smoker, slow cooker or perhaps sous vide?



I hope after you bleed them you soak them in a big cooler with lots of ice and a little salt for at least 7-10 days, draining the water and adding more ice as needed. Gotta get all that gamey flavor out of 'em.


Italian Dressing for the marinade?
Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 03:07 AM

No game flavor, don’t everybody from Bama use Dale’s Sauce? It makes everything taste like Dale’s sauce, consistency is key.
Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 03:10 AM

Heck, even those studies are by biologists.

Butter is good, butter is bad, butter is good, butter is bad...

Originally Posted by AU338MAG
Originally Posted by JohnnyLoco
And just how does it spread again?

And what about research with tracking collars that show extensively without questions that old mature bucks move less, and breed in heavy cover and thats why they become old mature bucks?

What about the same studies that show young bucks are more aggressive breeders this have a wider range?

What about research that shows during the rut a buck loses a substantial amount of body weight because they simply don’t eat so they wouldn’t be hanging around other deer?

What about the fact nobody knows how in the hell it spread?

All of this crap is speculation by snot nosed liberal wildlife biologists that don’t know jack crap outside their desk and computer.

I agree 100% All of the little deer that show up pre rut could be from 5 miles away. They're young dumb bucks just roaming anywhere they smell some tail. Big boys stay home until the real rut begins.
Posted By: WildlifeBiologist

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 12:03 PM

This discussion thread demonstrates what happens when someone knows just enough to be dangerous. wink

There is a clearinghouse for CWD research. Bookmark the site: CWD-info. It is a good way to get informed on this topic.

Here is an example that addresses prevalence of CWD in older bucks and its implications for buck harvest goals. CWD study. Here is an excerpt,

"We have more to learn about what factors cause the increased infection in males,” Hauge said. “For instance, if environmental transmission plays a role in spread of the disease, then it follows that males, who have larger home ranges than females, would logically experience more exposure. Another scenario that needs more investigation is the potential of females transmitting CWD to males during the breeding season. Once again, males cover a lot of ground during the breeding season and contact many different females physically as well as through urine scenting or other behaviors. A third possibility might be male-to-male transmission in the bachelor groups that form in late winter to mid summer.”

While the data indicates that older bucks are more likely to be infected than does, Hauge said, researches do not think that killing just all the older mature bucks would solve the problem.

“CWD is also present in other, more common, segments of the population. From a disease management viewpoint, the priority is to reduce the overall population numbers and reduce the opportunity for animal to animal contact. Landowners and hunters can really help control this disease by maximizing the harvest of does on their lands in the infected area,” Hauge said.



Posted By: bigcountry692001

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by JohnnyLoco
You have to bleed them first and then cook them. Every human I bit a chunk out of in combat taste coppery and not too swuft raw.

Originally Posted by Clem
Originally Posted by JohnnyLoco
Luckily I believe in my God given right to feed myself and that would include eating game personnel.


How do you cook game personnel? On the grill, smoker, slow cooker or perhaps sous vide?


Do all spec ops guys do this or is this just on certain occasions?
Posted By: Antlerfluke

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 12:40 PM

I and "we", which would be a approx 15 ppl or club members care about herd mgmt. We don't shoot immature bucks and we do kill a limited number of does but probably, not enough. We're happy with QDMA philosophy results and we're happy with the number of immature bucks we see and we're happy with our mature buck harvest.

We don't believe in shooting every doe we see and we're within our carry capacity based on known data we collect and our observations. And, as I mentioned in a previous post, we do NOT shoot "culls". If he's 4 yrs old, the buck gets shot and we're happy no matter what his antlers are. We are a disciplined and realistic hunting club and our membership hardly changes.

CWD won't change our deer mgmt or deer harvest rules.



Posted By: Goatkiller

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 01:27 PM

If you will quit killing everything you see on your QDMA club you will have better deer. You can't override mother nature with your trigger finger. Stop shooting and your age structure and your herd will be in balance 100% for your property. You don't have to do anything else.

If you want bigger deer focus on food not piling up does in the back of your truck.
Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 01:39 PM

Whatever the opinion, I don’t care for big brother nor supremacism attempting to decide my pursuit of happiness.

Originally Posted by WildlifeBiologist
This discussion thread demonstrates what happens when someone knows just enough to be dangerous. wink

There is a clearinghouse for CWD research. Bookmark the site: CWD-info. It is a good way to get informed on this topic.

Here is an example that addresses prevalence of CWD in older bucks and its implications for buck harvest goals. CWD study. Here is an excerpt,

"We have more to learn about what factors cause the increased infection in males,” Hauge said. “For instance, if environmental transmission plays a role in spread of the disease, then it follows that males, who have larger home ranges than females, would logically experience more exposure. Another scenario that needs more investigation is the potential of females transmitting CWD to males during the breeding season. Once again, males cover a lot of ground during the breeding season and contact many different females physically as well as through urine scenting or other behaviors. A third possibility might be male-to-male transmission in the bachelor groups that form in late winter to mid summer.”

While the data indicates that older bucks are more likely to be infected than does, Hauge said, researches do not think that killing just all the older mature bucks would solve the problem.

“CWD is also present in other, more common, segments of the population. From a disease management viewpoint, the priority is to reduce the overall population numbers and reduce the opportunity for animal to animal contact. Landowners and hunters can really help control this disease by maximizing the harvest of does on their lands in the infected area,” Hauge said.



Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 01:41 PM

I’m a human first before societal obligations, I do what I need to do to further the survival of my kind.


Originally Posted by bigcountry692001
Originally Posted by JohnnyLoco
You have to bleed them first and then cook them. Every human I bit a chunk out of in combat taste coppery and not too swuft raw.

Originally Posted by Clem
Originally Posted by JohnnyLoco
Luckily I believe in my God given right to feed myself and that would include eating game personnel.


How do you cook game personnel? On the grill, smoker, slow cooker or perhaps sous vide?


Do all spec ops guys do this or is this just on certain occasions?
Posted By: gene60

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 02:44 PM

who is this antlerfluke dude. I know every club has one . he knows everything about everything. he says ralph you are not doing this correctly. do it my way. every piece of property is different. let him come to Baldwin county and try this crap and he will be looking for members every year. a trophy is different to each person. most trophy clubs are morons that have the money to do it. thanks antlerfluke people like you deserve each other.
Posted By: gene60

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 02:52 PM

hunting is supposed to be fun. know it alls make it
bad for everyone
Posted By: Hix14

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 03:04 PM

I don't know about the rest of you, but I always like to see pictures. A lot of people have different ideas on "mature deer". Post pictures of some of the "mature deer" please. I just like to see it so that I can relate or not.
Posted By: Antlerfluke

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by gene60
who is this antlerfluke dude. I know every club has one . he knows everything about everything. he says ralph you are not doing this correctly. do it my way. every piece of property is different. let him come to Baldwin county and try this crap and he will be looking for members every year. a trophy is different to each person. most trophy clubs are morons that have the money to do it. thanks antlerfluke people like you deserve each other.



The deer mgmt philosophy I follow, is NOT mine!! It's biologists that "hunt" and their results in research that combines hundreds of thousands of man hours and they strive to LEARN!

gene60, seriously, you can do what the heck you want to do. I don't give a RA. I'm not downing what you're doing. I'm NOT stating that anyone is doing it wrong! But don't MISrepresent QDMA. QDMA doesn't say to shoot every doe you see. QDMA doesn't push the killing of cull bucks!!! And if people would listen, they would shoot way less button bucks. YOU gene, seem to be against any ideas that YOU don't subscribe to. How dare I suggest trigger restraint, right? Hell, shoot that 2 yr old buck if you want, gene!!! Shoot'em all!! IDC! Really!

If you want to shoot every stupid (and that's what they are) 2 yr old buck you see, then do it!!!!! IDC! I'm not here to condemn you so don't put words in my mouth.

I'm just saying that the hunting club I'm in doesn't shoot 2 yr old bucks and it IS a fact that we have and see a lot of bucks when we hunt. We have a "more" balanced sex ratio (you'll just have to open your mind as to why that's important and research it yourself, which you probably won't do) than any club that shoot 2 yr old bucks.

YES, hunting is supposed to be fun and IT IS at my hunting club. WE SEE A LOT OF BUCKS and we kill some impressive mature bucks. That's our experience and that's all I'm stating.

Do what works for you!!! You sound like a liberal democrat attempting to display me as telling everyone that our/my way is better. If I had to check a box if QDMA is better than "shooting whatever makes you happy", I'd check QDMA. But do what works for YOU gene! I'm fine with that.

Here's the truth... I don't give a dang what you do as I am NOT judging YOU for your deer mgmt philosophy!!! But you think it's ok to judge/condemn me for my club's deer mgmt?!!? I NEVER condemned shooting what makes hunters happy to shoot! Implement the deer harvest you see fit, that's fine. I just shared on this public forum (imaging sharing my beliefs, Mr. Antifa) what success we're having.

Do WTH you want to gene! I'm not going to condemn you as it's YOUR choice!! Don't condemn me for the kind of deer mgmt I or my club practices.
Posted By: AU338MAG

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by WildlifeBiologist
This discussion thread demonstrates what happens when someone knows just enough to be dangerous. wink

There is a clearinghouse for CWD research. Bookmark the site: CWD-info. It is a good way to get informed on this topic.

Here is an example that addresses prevalence of CWD in older bucks and its implications for buck harvest goals. CWD study. Here is an excerpt,

"We have more to learn about what factors cause the increased infection in males,” Hauge said. “For instance, if environmental transmission plays a role in spread of the disease, then it follows that males, who have larger home ranges than females, would logically experience more exposure. Another scenario that needs more investigation is the potential of females transmitting CWD to males during the breeding season. Once again, males cover a lot of ground during the breeding season and contact many different females physically as well as through urine scenting or other behaviors. A third possibility might be male-to-male transmission in the bachelor groups that form in late winter to mid summer.”

While the data indicates that older bucks are more likely to be infected than does, Hauge said, researches do not think that killing just all the older mature bucks would solve the problem.

“CWD is also present in other, more common, segments of the population. From a disease management viewpoint, the priority is to reduce the overall population numbers and reduce the opportunity for animal to animal contact. Landowners and hunters can really help control this disease by maximizing the harvest of does on their lands in the infected area,” Hauge said.




Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I understand from this is CWD should not affect which deer to shoot, just keep the population balanced and in check. Business as usual on QDM managed properties.
Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 06:30 PM

What I shoot is decided at the moment my trigger surprises me, how long to supper, or if I feel like hauling a deer out of the swamp.

Its usually a yearling for my smoker or cast iron pan
Posted By: Goatkiller

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 06:31 PM


Good to know it's Tuesday and we are still have a pack of dumbarses in charge.

Wasn't just shooting all the deer you possibly can proven ineffective by other States? Correct me if I am wrong but the result of that was they still have CWD just a lot less deer in general and hunters are irritated at best in those places.

I do feel sorry for all those in NW Alabama you are about to feel this before the rest of us do. I guess the plan is going to be shoot anything and everything that moves. Good Luck guys.
Posted By: Hix14

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 06:57 PM

Maybe Joe Biden can cure CWD when he cures cancer.

But seriously, our farm in Illinois was hit with "blue tongue" about 6 years ago. Wiped out a ton of deer. Last year, we finally started to see the numbers get back to where they once were. So it took 5 years to restore what was lost in our area, strictly from a numbers stand point. So I'm afraid when CWD finds it's way to the heart of Alabama, we are in for a long, dismal ride.
Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 07:07 PM

Prions are good with Tabasco sauce
Posted By: bigcountry692001

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by JohnnyLoco
Prions are good with Tabasco sauce

So.... you were not in military were you? I’m starting to think a three letter agency maybe.... CIA, DIA, NIA.... possibly
Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 10:01 PM

I had the unfortunate task of working with three letter agencies. They are on par with wildlife biologist, LEO’s, and liberals, I despise them.
Posted By: therealhojo

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by JohnnyLoco
I had the unfortunate task of working with three letter agencies. They are on par with wildlife biologist, LEO’s, and liberals, I despise them.


I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I bet the feeling was mutual...........
Posted By: TurkeyJoe

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/09/19 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by JohnnyLoco
I had the unfortunate task of working with three letter agencies. They are on par with wildlife biologist, LEO’s, and liberals, I despise them.


I’m curious mister, you got some good reasons for despising wildlife biologists and police, or you just naturally hateful?
Posted By: timbercruiser

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/10/19 12:54 AM

If you were a certified pecker checker you would be pissed at everybody also.
Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/10/19 12:57 AM

I don’t have the emotion of hate, only love, affectless, and disdain.

People worried about wildlife management or law enforcement are usually motivated by the emotional spectrum of the following:

Anger
Superiority
Inferiority
Fear
Envy

Both are really only good for writing reports.

I sure hope this helps...

Originally Posted by TurkeyJoe
Originally Posted by JohnnyLoco
I had the unfortunate task of working with three letter agencies. They are on par with wildlife biologist, LEO’s, and liberals, I despise them.


I’m curious mister, you got some good reasons for despising wildlife biologists and police, or you just naturally hateful?

Posted By: bigcountry692001

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/10/19 01:32 AM

Originally Posted by JohnnyLoco
I don’t have the emotion of hate, only love, affectless, and disdain.

People worried about wildlife management or law enforcement are usually motivated by the emotional spectrum of the following:

Anger
Superiority
Inferiority
Fear
Envy

Both are really only good for writing reports.

I sure hope this helps...

Originally Posted by TurkeyJoe
Originally Posted by JohnnyLoco
I had the unfortunate task of working with three letter agencies. They are on par with wildlife biologist, LEO’s, and liberals, I despise them.


I’m curious mister, you got some good reasons for despising wildlife biologists and police, or you just naturally hateful?


I know a lot of guys on both sides and I can honestly say that they are not motivated by any thing that you have listed. Have you ever actually talked to a biologist or an LEO?
Posted By: cartervj

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/10/19 02:14 AM

https://www.qdma.com/cwd/
Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/10/19 03:20 AM

I feel the same way across the board about Ragheads, LEO’s, Kid-Diddlers, Skunks, Drunks, Drug users, Lawyers, Wildlife Biologists, Snakes, Heathens, and Commie Liberals. I’m not passionate when I talk about them and affectless concerning their final disposition, but have a slight disdain for them otherwise.

Usually “a good one is...”

Originally Posted by bigcountry692001
Originally Posted by JohnnyLoco
I don’t have the emotion of hate, only love, affectless, and disdain.

People worried about wildlife management or law enforcement are usually motivated by the emotional spectrum of the following:

Anger
Superiority
Inferiority
Fear
Envy

Both are really only good for writing reports.

I sure hope this helps...

Originally Posted by TurkeyJoe
Originally Posted by JohnnyLoco
I had the unfortunate task of working with three letter agencies. They are on par with wildlife biologist, LEO’s, and liberals, I despise them.


I’m curious mister, you got some good reasons for despising wildlife biologists and police, or you just naturally hateful?


I know a lot of guys on both sides and I can honestly say that they are not motivated by any thing that you have listed. Have you ever actually talked to a biologist or an LEO?

Posted By: Remington270

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/10/19 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by cartervj


Thanks. It doesn’t really mention any changes in the core principles, which I wouldn’t expect at this point.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/10/19 02:56 PM

Johnny Loco...Am I to understand you dont like or respect Law Enforcement Officials? Really?

And there are a few wildlife biologists on here that are great guys and friends. Your painting with a broad brush there Johnny.

You should stick to checking peckers..honestly. Something that youre obviously good at and even certified for! thumbup loco rofl
Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/10/19 04:46 PM

[Linked Image]
Posted By: WildlifeBiologist

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/11/19 02:11 AM

JohnnyLoco, which 3-letter agencies did you work with? What was your role?
Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/11/19 02:18 AM

Shipping chemical weapons to Iraq by way of Argentina, killing nuns in Honduras, working with Escobar escorting drug shipments, hauling cash to the Clintons, feeding other guerrillas one banana clip at a time, frequent flyer miles on Evergreen International Airlines. I also helped exterminate loose ends of the deep state by zip tying their hands behind their backs and mowing them down then pushing them into a hole and covered them up, so I can drive heavy equipment too.

My Primary role was Air Control, Explosive Demolition, and Munitions. I was an “Advisor” and a damn Gopher (go fer dis, go for dat)

Feel free to ask me anything, plenty more examples.
Posted By: WildlifeBiologist

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/11/19 02:26 PM

Again....which 3-letter agencies did you work with? And what was your specific role?
Posted By: bigcountry692001

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/11/19 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by WildlifeBiologist
Again....which 3-letter agencies did you work with? And what was your specific role?

He’s never worked for, with, or by any 3- letter agency or the military it’s clear that he does not understand how any of them operate.
Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/11/19 05:29 PM

Sure I do, but y’all don’t.

Hell, eventhough I’m retired I met in the Yuengling Brewery’s caves a week or so ago with Infantry and CIA concerning upcoming events. I’m so damn good at what I do, they still consult with me. After that we all partied hard at Moose’s LZ at the “Gap”.



Posted By: Bamabucks14

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/11/19 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by timbercruiser
I would guarantee that Blue Tongue kills a LOT more deer every year than CWD.

This
Posted By: WildlifeBiologist

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/11/19 05:47 PM

Hopefully the site moderators will help JohnnyLoco find a place to play other than the Serious Deer Talk Forum.
Posted By: Remington270

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/11/19 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by Bamabucks14
Originally Posted by timbercruiser
I would guarantee that Blue Tongue kills a LOT more deer every year than CWD.

This


To be honest, I don't care how many either one kills. My only concern is deer to human transmission. And no one knows...
Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/11/19 06:00 PM

I started out just as “serious” as you folk. Nobody has anything other than speculation. I’ll repeat my question...”How does it spread?”


Originally Posted by WildlifeBiologist
Hopefully the site moderators will help JohnnyLoco find a place to play other than the Serious Deer Talk Forum.
Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/11/19 06:02 PM

Even with all of the empirical evidence you guys are citing, its still a philosophical conversation, JUST LIKE LIBERAL GLOBAL WARMING BEING CAUSED BY ?
Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/11/19 06:03 PM

Dat serious enough for ya?
Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/11/19 06:05 PM

Are you pouting because your education and/or position in society is possibly not justified nor superior? RE my listed behavior patterns for such beers


Originally Posted by WildlifeBiologist
Hopefully the site moderators will help JohnnyLoco find a place to play other than the Serious Deer Talk Forum.

Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/11/19 06:06 PM

This is all that really matters


Originally Posted by Remington270
Originally Posted by Bamabucks14
Originally Posted by timbercruiser
I would guarantee that Blue Tongue kills a LOT more deer every year than CWD.

This


To be honest, I don't care how many either one kills. My only concern is deer to human transmission. And no one knows...
Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/11/19 06:50 PM

Just like we post deer crossing signs so the deer know where authorized crossings are, I like putting the CWD responsibility back on them too.

[Linked Image]



Posted By: bigcountry692001

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/11/19 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by JohnnyLoco
Sure I do, but y’all don’t.

Hell, eventhough I’m retired I met in the Yuengling Brewery’s caves a week or so ago with Infantry and CIA concerning upcoming events. I’m so damn good at what I do, they still consult with me. After that we all partied hard at Moose’s LZ at the “Gap”.




Yep.... that’s legit.... the infantry because there’s only one.... and they are partnering with the CIA😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/11/19 11:58 PM

A lot of things take coordination. Just the way it is

Primarily the 28th ID, never said just one infantry brother. Nor was the meeting with brain dead cannon fodder grunts, only key personnel.

Hey, whats that got to do with serious deer hunting.







Posted By: Swampdrummin

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/15/19 10:40 PM

Johnny Loco....the guy that shows the crazies just how they look to others. Keep on shooting that sass.

As for your question, CWD is spread when an infected animal passes infected prion proteins to another animal. Kinda the same principal as all diseases.

Just think, how did you get the flu? Never got the flu? How did you get herpes? Deer can get it all those possible ways with the added twist of prions don't die outside the body like the herpes or flu virus. If a deer spits on the ground, dies, poops, etc. those little prion proteins can infect other deer for decades.

CWD can also be spread to other mammals, prion diseases are more of a disease of mammals rather than a single species.

I know you know all this but gosh you keep asking.
Posted By: timbercruiser

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/15/19 11:28 PM

If it were that easy for a deer to transmit CWD then there are parts of the country that wouldn't have a single deer in it.
Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/16/19 12:18 AM

The question ain’t what I think, its what you think brother. If you are satisfied with your scientific hypotheses on how CWD is spread...

MORE POWER TO YA !

I had a troop that was in love with a Turkish prisoner that was paying her debt getting loaned out as a whore. He indulged in the buffet and never got sick, then he changed to the anal menu and was sent to SAMC here in Texas with some stuff that Mr. Clean wouldn’t wash off, meningitis and some wild crazy pecker infection where they had to spit him like an Earl Campbell sausage to drain the juices.

Maybe it spreads when they sniff a butt? I don’t know, and the experts don’t know, but you seem to have the answer my “slept in a holiday inn express last night” brother.

Originally Posted by Swampdrummin
Johnny Loco....the guy that shows the crazies just how they look to others. Keep on shooting that sass.

As for your question, CWD is spread when an infected animal passes infected prion proteins to another animal. Kinda the same principal as all diseases.

Just think, how did you get the flu? Never got the flu? How did you get herpes? Deer can get it all those possible ways with the added twist of prions don't die outside the body like the herpes or flu virus. If a deer spits on the ground, dies, poops, etc. those little prion proteins can infect other deer for decades.

CWD can also be spread to other mammals, prion diseases are more of a disease of mammals rather than a single species.

I know you know all this but gosh you keep asking.

Posted By: Swampdrummin

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/16/19 12:23 AM

A
Originally Posted by timbercruiser
If it were that easy for a deer to transmit CWD then there are parts of the country that wouldn't have a single deer in it.


Look at the progression, eventually there won’t be . You have to you cross all the numbers in between when you go from zero to 100.
Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/16/19 12:26 AM

The question ain’t what I think, its what you think brother. If you are satisfied with your scientific hypotheses on how CWD is spread...

MORE POWER TO YA !

I had a troop that was in love with a Turkish prisoner that was paying her debt getting loaned out as a whore. He indulged in the buffet and never got sick, then he changed to the anal menu and was sent to SAMC here in Texas with some stuff that Mr. Clean wouldn’t wash off, meningitis and some wild crazy pecker infection where they had to spit him like an Earl Campbell sausage to drain the juices.

Maybe it spreads when they sniff a butt? I don’t know, and the experts don’t know, but you seem to have the answer my “slept in a holiday inn express last night” brother.

Originally Posted by Swampdrummin
Johnny Loco....the guy that shows the crazies just how they look to others. Keep on shooting that sass.

As for your question, CWD is spread when an infected animal passes infected prion proteins to another animal. Kinda the same principal as all diseases.

Just think, how did you get the flu? Never got the flu? How did you get herpes? Deer can get it all those possible ways with the added twist of prions don't die outside the body like the herpes or flu virus. If a deer spits on the ground, dies, poops, etc. those little prion proteins can infect other deer for decades.

CWD can also be spread to other mammals, prion diseases are more of a disease of mammals rather than a single species.

I know you know all this but gosh you keep asking.

Posted By: Swampdrummin

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/16/19 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by JohnnyLoco
The question ain’t what I think, its what you think brother. If you are satisfied with your scientific hypotheses on how CWD is spread...

MORE POWER TO YA !


Hey man, if you want to play this “experts don’t know diseases are passed” nonsense then more power to YOU. Keep on with that sass.
Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/16/19 12:53 AM

Is it a game?
Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/16/19 12:55 AM

Your repeated use of the word “Sass” concerning philosophical differences and my particularly unappreciated humor definitely outs your personality.

Shall I profile you ?

I say you swampdrummin, shouldn’t sniff deer butts and you might avoid the prion to human jump. I’m guessing folk with your personality type just can’t help themselves.
Posted By: Swampdrummin

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/16/19 01:06 AM

Originally Posted by JohnnyLoco
Your repeated use of the word “Sass” concerning philosophical differences and my particularly unappreciated humor definitely outs your personality.

Shall I profile you ?

I say you swampdrummin, shouldn’t sniff deer butts and you might avoid the prion to human jump. I’m guessing folk with your personality type just can’t help themselves.


It’s kind of one of those words you hear but never figured you’d use, but then Johnny loco comes around calling basic disease transmission “philosophy “.
Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/16/19 01:12 AM

If you have the conclusive transmission and cure information by all means hurry to Fox News.
Posted By: Swampdrummin

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/16/19 01:33 AM

Originally Posted by JohnnyLoco
If you have the conclusive transmission and cure information by all means hurry to Fox News.


thumbup
Posted By: JohnnyLoco

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/16/19 01:40 AM

Is this you?


https://www.realtree.com/sites/defa...ntent/products/realtreemaskbowhunter.jpg
Posted By: Swampdrummin

Re: QDM in the era of CWD - 07/16/19 03:31 AM

Yeah that’s me.
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