The State of the State of our deer hunting

Once again our deer season has closed and I and many other Alabamians we reflection on our past season, look at our mistakes, tweak what can be tweaked and for some it might mean a whole new shift in direction. But we all have some reasons for concern as far as where we are headed into the future as you well know times do change. There is much to do about CWD. We are all a little nervous about how Alabama will approach this subject. Then there are the rising costs of land leases and hunting in general. There are issues that have to do with our phone in reporting system, and high fence hunting issues. And of course that doesn't cover em all. I really enjoy hunting this State and I travel abroad to some other States as well. That being said, I have to say I am prouder of a 120 inch Alabama buck than a 150 from the Corn Belt. Why ? That 120 from Bama is a very different animal than from the Corn Belt. Not that shooting deer up North is like falling off a log. But if you have hunter there I think you can relate.Something that troubles me though in our State is the cost of our deer hunting. Let me restate that. Cost vs.return. And we all know that our money is not strictly tied to a harvest. I enjoy the fellowship of other hunters, being in nature, away from everything,etc. And I really don't have to spend a fortune to do that. Heck a $600-$1000 club can accommodate that. But prices are rising. And in many places the hunting is marginal for both quality or quantity. I know someone will say. Well that's not my case ! I have just an awesome place that I shoot a 130+ every season and see all kinds of deer and yada yada. I too have been fortunate enough to have hunter some very good Alabama properties. Now I am a realist. Yes. There are some very good places to hunt but from my experience of 40+ years of hunting from top to bottom of this State I have to say in 2019 they are very few. And you have to remember I came through the "Golden Age" of Alabama deer hunting. If you got to hunt in the 70's, 80's and early 90's in some of our better areas you got to be in on some fine deer hunting ! So your definition of quality deer hunting may vary. But if you call quality deer hunting seeing 20-30 deer per season and a couple of 90-100 inch bucks ;we come from different worlds. And I am perfectly fine with lowering some of my expectations. Let me give you an example of some of my friends experience. You may can even relate. 2 of them leased a 750 acre plot at $8000 in Monroe county. They are very well accomplished hunters. Pulled 1 buck that might, maybe would bust 100 inches. Have another buddy who has invested $8000 in a few years in clubs and had yet to pull the trigger on a 120 +. That is his criteria. I do have a friend who got it done on his place in 2 years that cost him $5000 per year. It scored 125. That to me is a pretty poor return for a lot of investment. And I thought that lease prices might slow down if the quality of the hunting slipped. Boy was I wrong ! I firmly believe some of these guys will keep paying more and more for less and less. A few year ago I was given the assignment of helping a buddy lease some of his properties out for hunting. It was okay property but he wanted to lease it because it was a disappointment for his expectations. When these guys rolled up,it was a cinch. Showed them a few deer tracts and s couple of rubs and they about P'd themselves. If my buddy had the mind to he could have socked it to em on price and they would have had no objections. I'm saying: Wake up Folks. I know lots of you feel like, well if I don't pay it someone will. Let them. You can hunt public land and fare better in some cases. I think all of us can make a difference if we have cut-offs on what we will pay.

You hit the nail on the head with that post.

You are correct. I use the phraseology "hunting experience". It's just generally lousy nowadays, especially on public land. Seriously, we Alabama guys foam at the mouth to go to WMA's in other states, but our own WMA's are a joke. And the ONLY difference I see is the mentality of hunters. Bama boys think it's somehow "tough guy" stuff to act all badd@$$ against the DCNR (cue the "Chucky" jokes), we say some the stupidest crap about "any deer is a trophy blah blah blah". It's like the "lowest common denominator" hunting mentality on earth, and the experience here backs that up.

I’m blessed to hunt family land, so my cost is suppressed.

If I had to pay what some are paying (for return or the experience), I just wouldn’t do it.

Some folks down the road are paying 4 grand per person for a county that might produce a 150 every decade.

Same here having family land helps. It also allows me to trade hunts. I hunt private land all across the state every year and never pay a dime. Guess I just have good friends? The biggest deer I’ve ever killed (132”) was on 120 acres I hunted for free for 8 years. I lived across the street and noticed folks dumping trash and some shady drug activity going on in an abandoded building. Called the absentee land owner told them what was going on and that I’d stop it if I could hunt. Couple cable gate, no trespassing signs, and some gas and a match to the old building. Good deeds don’t go unoticed!

I've only been deer hunting for 12 years. The state of things now are all I've ever known.
I'm just happy with my 100" 7 point.

I would try to read that post if it had paragraphs...

From my perspective and it means nothing. We have had our place for 13 years now it was clear cut the year we bought it and replanted in pines. The first 6-7 years we saw and took several 200 lb+ 4-5 year old 140" bucks. Over the next several years the body weights of does and bucks have remained the same but the inches of antlers have decreased. Sighting have decreased, but that's understandable because you're not sitting on a 200 acre clearcut that you can see 1/2 mile. I 100% think the inches of antlers have decreased because the habitat will not support what the heard was 15 years ago. When you walk into the pines, there is simply nothing for them to eat. We have made the decision to start thinning the pines and start burning earlier than what most would just to get some sunlight to the ground and get the groceries back in the woods.

I think our situation is a lot like what is going on across the state. We have traded soybean fields in the 80's for pine plantations in the 2000's. Just last week my dad and I rode to some property that we both dog hunted when I was a teen in Talladega and drove past the fields that we actually put in beans and wheat. Now they are 15 year old pine plantations probably with the same issue of little to no food in the understory.

It is all about expectations, for the folks on here that have hunted what you would call expectional property in AL they have higher expectations than those that haven't. The vast majority of mature bucks in AL will score somewhere between 100-120 that is just the facts and if you are hunting in AL you should set your expectations accordingly. As far as numbers of deer like there was is parts of this state in the 70's-80's well the state took care of that and those numbers will probably never return on a large scale. If you are hunting in the Midwest the average mature buck will probably scores at least 120-140 and the numbers are good because recruitment is higher due to more available food and the deer are just easier to see. Everything is relative if you have only ever hunted poor ground in AL I could take you hunting in AL and you would think it was outstanding. If you hunted south AL 30 - 40 years ago or the Midwest you could hunt the same ground and think it was awful. For the most part hunting in AL is at best mediocre when compared to anywhere in the Midwest and always will be.

Truth is we as the hunting public have ruined the very sport we love. I too was fortunate enough to hunt in the 80's and 90's and during those times there were several key differences..

Well I'm glad some of you guys share the same sentiments. Thank you. You sometimes fell like a lone voice. But a lot of Alabama's hunters are getting smarter. And that's where it at. Some folks just need education. And this not all about 💰. I think many of us wouldn't oppose paying serious money for serious hunting. I am fortunate to hunt Family land in Illinois and as you know if you have done much hunting there it doesn't typically take very much land or an awful lot of time to close the deal on a nice deer. But I truly enjoy Alabama deer hunting and have taken some decent deer here. I don't have all the answers on how to move forward. If we could somehow convince some of our hunters to control their trigger finger it would make a huge difference. Me and 14 others shared 2500 acres this past season. We harvested 12 bucks and 5 does. Yes, we do need step up the doe harvest. But of the 12 bucks taken 11 were between 50 and 85 inches. That's beyond pathetic! One excuse after another. Didn't have much time to judge, wanted to get something for my money, bla, bla,bla ! And this goes on everywhere in our State. Yes there are some people doing better but there is still a lot of this kill em all mentality out there.

We used to be fortunate enough to hunt a nice family piece.... But that changed and we had to lease land. We do the best we can but i believe we spend too much for the return we get on the investment.

I would have to say when i spent zero on land we had more fun and the deer hunting was better.. Go figure.

complain about quality and your group does this? I guess these were all 4+ year olds

12 bucks off 2500 acres is WAY to many bucks to kill off that land!!! Clearly you should leave that club and find a club where you have like minded hunters who take trophy managing seriously. Those clubs are out there for sure.

In Alabama there are all different types of hunters. Many here have not evolved into the conservationist/land manager type. I think that is where you ultimately want to end up. When you get there, you really enjoy the herd management perspective almost as much as the hunt. The guys I hunt with do more planting and feeding of the herd than we do harvesting. All of us really get excited to watch bucks grow from year to year! A lot of the enjoyment we have is just pulling camera cards to see what we have on the property.

Now don’t get me wrong. I love slinging lead as much as the next guy. It’s just my perspective has changed in almost 50 years of doing this. I was in Auburn in the late 80s and early 90s and man there were deer everywhere and big bucks too!! I would wack em and stack em with everyone else! Once again, I have evolved and so have many others. I also think that lots of hunters did not get to experience those days so I do not judge a person for pulling the trigger.

I truly believe we should go to a tag system. That is the only system that works. This reporting stuff is crap and no one does it. How can they possibly think they are getting accurate data????? Go to a tag system like every other state and then increase the fines to painful levels if people don’t use it. Then we will have a true understanding of what is happening in our state.

Racksrus- This is a very loaded question and 1 that probably has no answer but what is a good return on investment. That is different for everyone I would assume. I passed on 3 deer for various reasons. Hunting for food is not a profitable option on feeding a family unless you live on the property you hunt, do nothing to supplement the game and process everything yourself. It's simply cheaper dollars ad cents wise to goto the grocery store.

Now if you factor into time that you spend getting outdoors and use that for determination of money spent. Taking your family if that's their thing. Just pure enjoyment, it's hard to put a price on that. My #1 passion is tractor time. I love playing on my dozier, skidsteer, mini -x and tractors. That's where I find my peace these days. I cannot put a dollar value on that.

So as long as I get to use my toys and see my friends and family at this point in my life every deer season is a success.

I put so much emphasis in deer hunting, I may be doing my kids a disservice. May need to hunt more small game. My hunting place is above average, but not superb by any means.

Been thinking hard about how to approach my future hunting....

X 2, good thread.

I have 2 boys. One is 6 and the other will be 12 next month. They could take to leave deer hunting, but they both love squirrel hunting. I bought and trained two treeing pups and let them help in the process. Several dads from church and their sons go with us all the time... and we always have the best time. Those two dogs have been the best outdoor/sporting investment I have ever made. Small game hunting is not taken too seriously these days, but it's what me and my boys look forward to the most.

I think I’m just going to:
* Hunt the 18 acre homestead.
* Hunt a little public ground.
* Take a trip every now and then, maybe one of those school hunts in January.

I’m not interested in the drama or expense of a club. I enjoyed hunting the Kentucky lease with outdoorobsession and chase last fall. But the way I work kinda hurt me on spending the kind of time I needed to spend up there.

I guess it's all in the way you look at things. To somebody who grew up hunting central Fl public land, Alabama hunting (even if it ain't what it used to be), seems pretty good.

The wife and I went in halves with my brother on 80 acres in south Alabama with plans to enjoy it recreationally for 20 years or so, then build a house and retire on it. The land prices in Fl are outrageous a 10 acre tract will cost you 10-15 thousand an acre plus. The city is gobbling up the country so fast its unbelievable. Traffic, even in the country, gets worse every year. Places that used to grow oranges and cows now grow houses like weeds. Leases in south Fl are 7-10 K per person, to kill bucks most of yall would let walk.. Leases in north Fl are usually 12-25 hundred to shoot "legal" deer.

I keep hearing how tough Al public land is to hunt and I keep thinking that it can't be tougher than the swamps and flat woods I'm used to. I plan to try out some of it next year.

My advice (for what its worth) is sure, do all you can to make your hunting better, but in the end don't stress about it too much. It will take the fun out of it. Make the most out of what yall have and know it could surely be worse.

And yes it could be worse. I am just to the point I'm not gonna pay much for sub standard deer hunting here. I can set my sights low and land in cheap clubs and or public hunting. And coming off the hip thinking it's gonna get you to the land flowing in milk and honey can be naive. And yes there are a few milk and honey spots. As said there is more to our experience than just the hunt. And those things can be accomplished without spending a lot. At core here is dropping large amounts of money. When I get in my pocket book heavy things have to pick up in the hunting department. Someone mentioned my group and our harvests. I was in no way involved in taking those scrubs. And everyone that did it boldly professed to not be those kind of hunters prior to the opening of season. Lesson there is actions speak louder than words.

I hope my comments only add perspective and don't sound too negative about AL hunting. However, being a military family, I've had the privilege of hunting a lot of states (and overseas). I've killed deer in NC, VA, GA, IL, WY, SD, CO, NE, AL, and NJ. (Yes NJ LoL). The only state I've lived in for any considerable amount of time and didn't kill a deer was FL. (That's mainly because I had a bang up place in Georgia to hunt near my work.) In AL, I have hunted Chambers, Randolph, Bullock, Coffee, and Crenshaw counties. All private leases or timber company leases. Mainly pine plantation, but some hardwoods/SMZs. Being not from AL and not growing up here; there aint no family/friends land these days. So mostly what's been available is pine plantation with thick understory (less than desirable habitat, and it's tough hunting). I think folks hold onto their leases whether the hunting is good, it's close to home, etc. Not a lot of turnover on good hunting ground. I'm sure there are some vacancies out there in some quality clubs, but I like doing my own thing, planting my own plots, and missing out on the drama.

Based on my 40+ years of hunting experience, with the last 6 being here, AL is at the bottom of my list for quality and quantity of deer sightings. I realize we have a lot of factors to consider. Weather, trickle rut, rut in hot weather that wears bucks down (possibly increasing mortality each year), but I firmly believe pressure is the biggest factor. We have a lot of "house" dogs and collared hunting dogs push deer year round. Not to mention the amount of coyotes and bobcats we get on camera too. Seems to be quite a bit of trespassing/poaching, night hunting, road hunting, and less than desirable activity. Not to mention there's scent in the woods from 15 October to 10 February each year. Thats the longest season I know of.

For whatever reasons, a 3+ year old AL buck is a whiley creature. If you kill him, you have done a much larger feat than if you kill a midwest deer of the same age. Even then, he's lucky to sport 100" of horn. There's just no way I'd pay what I'm paying for a lease anywhere else in the US for the quality of hunting I've experienced here...but if I don't, somebody else will. Either it's a guy down in FL who don't have much chance at good hunting close to home, or it's somebody local looking for greener pastures because it seems not many are satisfied these days.

Again, just my perspective. If you have a better experience, good. Be thankful. I'm hopeful mine will get better...somehow.

I don't get it....whats your point....Your upset because you pay a ton of money and dont shoot much...Or your buddies are paying a ton and you don't feel they are getting their moneys worth....What is the point of this thread... You mad bro.... Cost vs return on Deer Hunting never adds up...

When you start hunting for you and your enjoyment and not worry about crap you cant control youll prolly start killing better Deer and have a more enjoyable experience...02

Personally, I think the biggest problem is lack of trigger control and the I've got to get my money's worth attitude. I'm fortunate to live and hunt in black belt territory. If you give them time to get to 4 or 5 there's a good chance a buck will grow 120-140"+ and 150-160 are possible but those bucks don't max out until 6 or 7 yrs old. Regardless of genetics a 2 yr old buck will rarely get to 120. Most land around here is leased or privately hunted and leases go for $10-15/acre. Fortunately most folks around here are going for quality and not hunting for meat. Let em go, let em grow.
We probably don't kill as many does as we should but the coyotes do work on the fawns

Here is the bottom line. We all know its gonna cost something to hunt. As I've stated I don't mind paying. But a lot of folks are getting rooked . Simply put paying big money for leases in Bama is a dice roll. Prices are way too high for land, generally speaking. Especially for what you get. If you are okay with dropping big money and seeing a few 100 inchers then someone will definitely oblige you. I personally have not dropped what I would call big money in this State. Don't really have to. Our 450 acre Illinois farm has deer that will push 200 inches. Even though Alabama can't hold a candle to that caliber hunting, I really enjoy the hunting here. Just we need to our lease prices in proper perspective. And most of the people who hunt quite a bit know this. I think I'm accurate in saying that a lot you guys don't do that well in terms of quality and sometimes even quantity. I'm calling BS on it. Again we have some good spots but we got a lot of substandard ones. I can just hear Billy Bob Buck Teeth now. "Oh we got some Giants on our place "And just on and on with a bunch of talk. And this poor soul hasn't shot a decent deer in 10 years. And then he will go to Facebook and see a few snapshot's from a pool of a half million hunters and say "Told ya we had em" . And that's the point. Stop getting sucked in to a bunch of hype and get land prices their proper perspective.

What do you call big money? I would say that is different to who you are asking too

Our leases are 3-4 times what your leases are, a rich mans game now. In turn that hurts hunting by just taking bucks soon wont be any big bucks cause middle tier bucks all gone. It all goes back to hunter taking responsibility for managing what deer they have irrelevant of what neighbor does. Management starts with you.

Probably won’t kill better deer,but the more enjoyable experience.....yes

Yes Noble you are 100 % right. It starts with us. And someone has to take a stand or you will fall for anything. These same people who ask what's my point and won't oppose price gouging would raise hell if when they went to the grocery store checkout and started to pay and was told "Hey Bud we decided we are gonna charge you double and go put back half your cart". Don't be someone who says nothing or defends the way things are. Be like Donald Trump. Whether you like him or not he says Washington is a damn mess and needs to be fixed !
Well he is right ! Have to admire someone who don't just give us some smooth talk.

As far as the state of our State’s hunting at least in my area it is a shadow of what it once was and if / when my current hunting property in Alabama that I lease sells it will be the last property I lease in Alabama. I will hunt my 96 acres if I feel the urge , but I will not buy another Alabama hunting license to support a Department that has done so little to manage the deer herd across the State as a whole.

I'm not sure you understand how supply and demand works.................

Sorry for the slap of reality......high lease prices are here to stay. Lots of people with $$$$ in and out of this state willing to pay to hunt here. Prices only going up. Just the law of supply and demand.

I agree racksrus I told someone on lease forum other day I'd be more proud of 120 inch deer from my county than 150 inch deer from Illinois and they said they quit hunting lol...i reckon it's how u compare a trophy? I can guarantee that mine would be harder to kill where I hunt tho..etowah co don't have as many as some..and if cwd takes over theys plenty squirrel frogs and fish to get...hell I may take up trapping if that happens

Racksrus, first of all, if you hunt in a club where the attitude of: "I've got to kill a buck to get my money's worth!", is acceptable to the rest of your group or your board or president, I'd pack my stuff and find somewhere else to hunt. My club kills bucks based on bucks' age and not so much antler score. But like anything else, hunting is like this... the more disciplined, educated (abt your hobby), unselfish, work done, restrained on the trigger finger, etc... you and your hunting partners are, the better off you'll all be. I will NOT hunt in a club where 2 yr olds are shot!.

My club lets, for the most part, 3 yr old bucks and younger walk. Yes, there are some 3 yr olds that do get shot because they have an exceptional rack on their head and we're trying to address not shooting these potential monsters at 3 yrs old. Yes, we allow fist time hunters to shoot the buck of his/her choice. We have almost zero turn-over in members but if a new member joins, and he has a first time hunter, we tell the new member to not let his first time hunter shoot a two year old buck. I mean if he wants to, that's fine HOWVER, with only a few hours put in, that young hunter is guaranteed to see a 3 yr old with a decent rack within 100 yds.

I had a great year! Wanna know how many bucks I killed? ZERO, but I saw tons of immature bucks( this includes a lot of 3 yr old bucks I elected not to shoot) and I just couldn't make it happen on the mature bucks I did see. Granted, I hunt woods more then food plots and I bow hunt more than gun hunt.

Each year, my club's property (3000+ ac) has an age class that carries over to the next year. Because we shoot zero 2 yr old bucks or younger and very few 3 yr old bucks, we have a good crop of bucks entering the 3, 4, 5+ age class each year. It stands to reason that we kill some decent bucks. Our tops bucks are mid 130's but if he's a 4 yr old, hey, that's a trophy no matter what's on his head!

If someone makes a mistake and shoots an immature buck, it's not hell, fire and damnation if it's truly a mistake. Shooting an immature buck because you haven't killed a buck all year, will get your ass thrown out of the club as that's blatant disregard for our rules.

So, I hunt with like-minded hunters. None of us is greedy. We ALL want to shoot 4 yr old bucks. And, it's not that hard ageing a buck on the hoof. Esp in a food plot! In the woods, it's harder, certainly. Shooting 2 and 3 yr old bucks is not that hard to do... IF YOU HAVE THEM. They're like 16 or 17 yr old boys in heat... they don't think! When they turn 4, they're a different animal.

Anyway, if killing a 2 yr old buck is not against your rules or there are no consequence$ of shooting such, that's not good. But NTL, you have to hunt with hunters that understand the basic biology of whitetail deer and they better be willing to understand that you don't HAVE to kill a buck to have a successful season.

I enjoyed my year. Saw lots of bucks and had fun. The hardest thing is finding a club that manages based off whitetail deer biology and not coffee shop talk. If your club thinks that it can manage its buck pop based off genetics and killing undesirable "cull" bucks (IN A FREE RANGE), your club or club management isn't doing its homework and doesn't know deer biology.

If you ever hunt in a club where 80% of bucks shot are 4 yrs old, you'll NEVER go back to the level where your current club is now. The difference is night and day in hunter satisfaction.

If any club management starts talking about shooting culls, I'd look for a different club as that club hasn't done what it needs to do to manage a deer herd. Genetics is the LAST "hole in the bucket" you try to plug. Age and nutrition are what you really need to concentrate on! Try waiting until they're 4 yrs old before you shoot a buck. If they're not what you want in a rack at 4 yrs old, then shoot him as he's not ever (usually) going to be a great rack. And if he's a pretty good buck, you may consider shooting him anyway as you may not ever see that buck again! At some point, ya gotta pick the fruit! However, at 4 yrs old, that buck is a trophy. Maybe not in antler size, but a 4 yr old Bama Buck is hard to kill.

I pay $312 for out of state all game for what feels like the longest deer season ever, drive 787 miles one way and I’m in my stand before dark the same day, give my arteries a workout with nasty Conecuh sausage, kill some deer, small game, and predators, sit by the creek in the morn, watch the sunset from the hill in the evening, visit kin folk...

Thats my trophy and anyone that puts a score on a set of deer antlers needs their head examined.

Rinse & Repeat

Meh.

What does that mean? Practically?

I do hunt for my own enjoyment. For me to enjoy my hunting experience it requires seeing deer when I go hunting the more I see the more I enjoy it. To enjoy it more than that requires me to kill a mature buck 4 years old and up the more that buck scores the more I enjoy it. It is that simple.

Insert standing slow clap ovation.

You see. Some people don't even appreciate it when try and fight for them. I am on the hunter's side. Whose side are you on ? When we push for change and we disaprove of of things like high lease prices ,etc. We are taking a stand for our hunting. Its not about just wanting to bitch. You need to be thankful for the work people like Warren Strickland and others have done to implement changes in our deer hunting. He fought for us when the State was telling every hunter to go out there and kill every dam thing that that moved. A buck and a doe a day ! What some freaking Idiots ! And there were hunters who balled over that like a baby with a pacifier yanked out of his mouth ! Well its not perfect but Warren Strictland and others aided in stopping that BS. And I know we hunters can't control everything but we can do a lot. But we got to get on the same page. You can't be saying dumb crap like "What's your point" etc. Some of you guys have had my back in these forums and I appreciate it. Changes never come from people who want take a stand. Heck. Put up some kinda fight. Might lose but count me in !

Lease prices go up because supply and demand, the out of state hunters pay it ! It has nothing to do with the Alabama hunters. Travel the state in mid to late January and notice the Florida, Georgia, Louisiana license plates. I know of 3 leases right now that are Florida/ Louisiana hunters exclusively. They told me that they would pay 18-25 per acre if they had to. You see, the people that "own" the land doesn't care who leases the land, they only care who pays the most. SOOO, if us Alabama hunters "demand" something be done about lease prices, they will just lease to the out of state guys who are willing to pay it. Simple as that. JMO.

This is a good thread started by Racksrus.
Good discussion and provocative.

I especially liked BigBores comments about evolving into the Conservationist/Land Manager type.
Which is what Ron and BigBore were also saying. Letting bucks get age on them.

Mike and TheFive made good comments about managing expectations.

Putting this altogether it seems to me that still to this day, most hunters and lessees are still not managing people and managing the land.
I think it takes more then putting in some food plots.

While this might be hard to do for various reasons, the land itself needs to be improved to be good deer habitat.
With lots of ground cover and natural ground food.

Fire.
Lots of fire.
As much as possible will help this.
I think this is the single best thing to do.

Also, strategic timber cutting to get more sunlight to the ground and increase ground story.

And just don't shoot 1s and 2s.
And if you can help it, don't shoot 3s either.
That is where it gets tricky for most hunting clubs.
And really most hunters.

That is about all that can be done, other then trying to encourage surrounding properties to do the same thing.

The biggest problem, IMO, is people wanting to push the way they hunt and what they harvest on everyone else.

I value my freedoms way more than giving the government more control over deer hunting.

Well, the subject of this thread started by Racksrus is hunter satisfaction and high lease prices.
And people were complaining about low deer sightings, lease costs keep going up, few big buck opportunities, etc.

So everyone was commenting on that.
And making suggestions about what could be done to improve those things.
Without government involvement.
Although I would say that I think that a doe a day is uncalled for and counter-productive.

X2. Good stuff hojo.

Cry babies, cry babies, cry babies, waa, waa, waa,...

By god I believe everyone should think like me because I want them to and I want to kill trophies by god. Enough is enough!!!!!!

Nothing can be done to improve it on a large scale without government intervention. They tried no government intervention and virtually all the deer got killed.

Mike, so I think you may agree that one possible solution, not complete solution but something positive to do, is to limit doe harvest?
Eliminate the doe a day rule?

Yep, Leases are pricey in the BlackBelt, but well worth the price for the enjoyment it gives me.

Says the gentleman that has his location as land of the free because of the brave. Thank God they were brave and didn't want government intervention to handle it for them.

X2

Yes if the objective is to increase the deer herd. To only way to have more bucks and more does is to have more does having babies. The only way to do that is to decrease the amount of does that can be killed. The only way that will happen is for the state to decrease the amount of days a doe can be legally killed. A number of does won't work cause people will just print another paper and keep shooting like they do now with the 3 buck limit.

The people that have and still do sacrifice there lives and there time to keep this country free has nothing to do with the regulations enacted to protect wildlife resources and everything to do with your right to bear arms so you are able to enjoy the resource that is available because of the regulations. It is a fact that people can not regulate thereselves when it comes to hunting without exploiting the resource. If they could have done that there never would have been a need for the regulations in the first place.

Several things are true as far as the current state of hunting in Alabama.
A. The DCNR is NOT going to make any adjustments to the doe harvest no matter what data is reported on game check. It's too big of a selling point for leasers and license purchases.
B. Land lease prices are going to continue to increase every year, and there is nothing hunters can do about it.
C. The amount of available land to lease is going to get smaller and smaller and smaller every year, and hunters can't do anything to change that.
D. Habitat change and hardwood removal will continue, probably at an accelerated pace as long as the economy is booming, and there is nothing hunters can do about it.
E. With the smaller amount of land, much smaller amount of deer, the hunting experience that we had in the 90's and early 2000's is gone, probably forever, and there isn't much we can do to get it back without a wholesale change.

I spent 4 hours in a stand for 3 season prior to this one. I sort of missed hunting and decided to start back this year. I killed one pretty good 4 year old, and let 3 other good deer walk. One of the 3 I would shoot if I had a do over, but at least I saw deer, and to me, that is what matters. I was so disgusted with what hunting had become that I didn't want to even be around it for 3 years. I don't care if somebody shoots a spike, a 4pt, or a 2 year old 8pt. I do not care, but watching doe after doe, after doe, fawn after fawn after button head killed just because it's ''legal'' was enough for me to not want to be around it. I hunted 8 mornings and 3 afternoons all season, and only had 1 day that I saw double digit deer, and that day I saw 11. That is not good, I don't care what any biologist says. The experience to me is seeing deer, and I know for a fact the quantity of deer in most of the places I've hunted in the last 15 years is low, and I mean low. Maybe it's coyotes, maybe it's hardwood removal, maybe is CWD, Ebola, or Salmonela, Herpes, or HIV, I honestly don't know, but what I do know is that when point A above became the gold standard for the DCNR biologist, hunting went to S_________T.

The state of deer hunting in AL is pathetic. I can cross the state line into GA and see 75 deer in a 8 mile stretch. It would take me 2-3 years to see that in AL. The state says deer numbers are up and that we need to kill more. They say turkeys numbers are down and we need to kill less. They are clueless. I’m seeing more turkeys in AL that I ever have !!

I manage for mature bucks and we dont shoot anything we are not going to mount. I picked up 200 acres adjoining me this year and I paid the landowner $3 more per acre than what it was actually worth. I didn't offer the higher price but that's what the landowner said he had to have. I did it to keep some yahoo from picking up that little 200 acre piece and putting out a couple corn piles and killing 5 or 6 of the good 2 and 3 year old bucks that we are letting grow. I dang sure didnt need the additional acreage but it was worth it to us to overpay, by $600 on that particular piece, just to get the previous corn hunting, shoot anything group gone and to keep someone else from coming in and negatively impacting what we and our other 3 large landholding neighbors are trying to do. I wouldn't care if the neighbor guy killed a few young bucks here or there but when the 3 of them are shooting every basket rack 6 or 8 they see (8-10 and prob more each year) along with any doe that stands still long enough to get shot, and then every deer we kill on that side of our place is chock full of corn, my good neighbors and I can fix that problem.

It sucks for sure but more and more people are doing it and it is becoming the norm. The shoot everything crowd says they dont want to trophy hunt but they would be the first ones to ride a trophy all over town in their truck bragging about it if they did manage to kill a good one. It is my opinion that most dont manage or trophy hunt because they cannot afford to tie up large parcels and the expense that comes with managing the land and wildlife and I understand that. They make comments like " rich guys a ruining deer hunting". Maybe they should take a step back and look in the mirror. There is always someone with more money and willing to pay it no matter how wealthy or poor your group may be. People complain about lease prices and I completely understand and hate the current high rates/acre but the shoot anything group is hurting themselves as much or more than anything else.

Guys that control large acreages and have the money to do it are not going to just sit back and let a bunch of "shoot every buck they see" guys surround their highly managed properties and kill all the deer they are passing. It ends up creating a bad situation of limited opportunity for the guys that just want to hunt, but when the shoot everything guy doing what he wants to do, starts to prohibit mgmt guys from doing what they want and are trying to do, someone will always end up as the odd man out. It doesn't have to be that way. The unfortunate thing is that if the shoot anything guys would just back off on all the killing, just a little bit, they might have some great opportunities to enjoy some prime hunting that they otherwise might not be able afford, due to the sometimes prohibitive cost of obtaining a managing a 2000-5000 acre lease. A lot of people don't know or have access to 10-15 like minded guys to go in with them on a big lease. They could piggyback off the larger landowners mgmt efforts and enjoy the same quality of hunting on these smaller, more affordable 100 and 200 acre parcels, but to do so, they would/will have to adjust their mindset to fit in. I certainly don't mind a guy killing a young buck if that floats his boat but IMO there's no valid reason to try to kill every rack buck you see.

This is just my opinion but I can promise you that I honestly think that I could take a shoot anything guy, that is used to hunting small un-managed property and seeing maybe 2 or 3 young rack bucks a year and killing them all, for a couple weekends in a row on my place and sit with him and allow him to see multiple 3 yr old rack bucks (in all probability, bigger bucks than he has ever killed) feeding in a field in the broad daylight and Id' be willing to bet after seeing what is possible with just a little restraint, I could convert him and he would agree to get on our program and I could let him have that 200 acres and he'd end up being a good neighbor. IMO, the problem is that most people have not experienced hunting on a well managed property where it is really easy to see multiple 1-3yr or even 4 yr old bucks on a regular basis. It seems unattainable for them and it will continue to be as long as they maintain their I'm gonna kill 20 deer a year attitude.

And before someone brings it up, kids get multiple free passes on bucks as they work their way up to the same shooting standards that the adults have. You cant expect a young kid, who's only killed a few does, to pass up 100-110" 2 and 3 yr old 8 points while waiting on a 5 yr old and we dont make them. Like I said, my problem is not with guys killing young bucks. I'm happy for them if that floats their boat. It's with those that "have" to kill every buck they see. My other peeve is all the corn hunting, not supplemental feeding, but corn hunting that goes on in this state. It's a game violation that everyone has done for so long that it has become commonplace and accepted practice.

There's got to be come common ground somewhere but everyone is too selfish to find it without a bunch of state imposed rules. HAlf the state wants to kill every deer they see and the other half wants to protect all the younger bucks. We are our own worst enemies. GA has two whole counties that are trophy managed. When it was first proposed, there was a huge backlash from the shoot any buck crowd. Now those same guys are the biggest proponents of letting young deer walk and everyone, large landowners and small, are reaping the benefits of quality herd management and loving it. But they absolutely squalled like babies and were kicking and screaming those first couple years. Look up Dooley and Macon counties and what they've done. By the way, GA has a 2 buck and 10 doe limit. Statewide, no exceptions. The length of their firearms season is similar to ours with the only difference being you can only kill 12 deer a year total in GA whereas you can kill 121 in Bama. Go figure why our hunting is suffering. And for the record I'm not for making entire counties trophy mnanaged. While it would help what we are trying to do mgmt wise, It infringes on others rights and that's not right either. I don't know what the answer is.

Smh uh uh uh

All of that (which I didn't read) just to say "I don't know what the answer is" ??? Damn, you take this shlt waaay to serious.

^^^^ Best post I have ever read on Aldeer!

Agree 1 Million % Abolt!!!

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I think the only things to be adjusted now are:

1. Have a rational doe limit per hunter.

We should open a discussion about that.
And based on what a lot of hunters report we should discuss what if any areas of the State should have a more significant restriction or limit including open and closed doe seasons. Seems that might be more of an issue for the Northern Tier.


2. I was going to have a 2 and 3 but don't want to open up a debate on this thread about corn and Gamecheck.

4. Continued emphasis on developing hunters into the conservation and land manager/steward level and QDM (not neccessarily TDM).

Too many guys want to trophy hunt and will pay $2000 or more but feel they have to kill one,two of three bucks every "so they get their monies worth" . If you're spending that kind of money and everyone's killing 100 inch deer,then you're not trophy hunting and just kidding yourself but they'll still bitch and moan.