30/30 shot at close range (35 yards)

A friend of mine shot a deer with a 30/30 yesterday, close range (35 yards or less), and only got 3 drops of blood. He says he put the crosshairs right behind the deers shoulder, and the deer mule kicked when he shot. He couldn’t find any sign of a hit where the deer was standing, found the 3 drops where the deer entered the woods. Never found the deer or any more sign.

I’m wondering if the deer was so close that the bullet didn’t mushroom and create a good wound channel? He was shooting 150 gr Remington Core Lokt bullets. Same thing happened to him last year, he’s ready to hang it up hunting with his 30/30.

What do you think? I’ve been reading Catman’s posts on TNDeer, he’s whacking and stacking with his 30/30. Maybe a different bullet is in order? Robinhedd

At that distance the impact would be lower than the cross hairs, possibly much lower. Just sayin'.

That gun and bullet has killed ALOT of deer 35 to 100yds.

Get a tracking dog and go find the deer.

At 50 yds, a 30-30 zero'd at 100yds is about an 1/8" high. At 0 yds it's about 1.5" low. You do the math. Add in trigger jerk, nerves, etc., and he probably hit low and grazed it. Just my opinion though.

Yep, it's your buddies shooting, or tracking ability, or both.

Agree, likely just grazed the chest, almost a clean miss.

This for certain. It's your friend doing something off.

Sounds like your buddy jerked and shot low. A 150gr 30-30 round at that range would leave a massive wound.

Dr. B

At 35 yds in the right hands the 30-30 is a deer killer, has he checked his scope? Zeroed at 25 should be zero about at 100, with that round. I’ve killed many with that same setup and always had a good blood trail, usually very short. If he wants to sell it and it’s a jm stamped marlin I’d be interested in it.

Damn, prom flashbacks!

Well it ain’t the 30-30.

Shoulda been shoot'n them powerlockts.

Thread not long ago about this. Any shot not guaranteed until deer is on the ground.

This is a myth, doesn't happen. If anything, at close range impacts, you get more mushroom, not less.

That's a dead deer if he actually hit it and it was a clear shot, but if there were limbs, even small ones, between him and the deer it could very well have deflected or busted apart. I also don't trust mule kicks to indicate a hit either. Mule kick combined with hitting the ground or flat out running until audible death drop, yes, but mule kick and running off strong? That's a missed deer.

I would think if he hit low and grazed the belly enough to draw blood, there should be a ton of white hair where the deer was standing. There was nothing

Shot one at 60ish yards and there was a exit wound of the size of a quarter

If he missed, that was a BAD miss, to be that close.

Tell him to quit blaming it on the gun....

Was the deer perfectly broadside?? I find that a lot of times when folks think the deer is broadside that it may actually be quartered to them some. If that was the case then its possible that he angled back into the guts and never got an exit. If it was a solid hit in the body like that then the deer is probably within 200 yards or so of the hit site. He may have also jerked his shot and hit farther back than he thinks. Get a dog and you'll likely locate it.

He got buck fever and made a bad shot.

This is highly likely, having a buck that close gives some sever buck fever. The easy shot becomes a maybe.

Had the same thing happen to me years ago. Shot 2 does within 50 yards one weekend & never found them. Went the following Monday & bought a Rem 7mm mag,never had to look for one since.
Gun was perfectly zeroed. Shooting Winchester silver tips,kinda wanted to blame the bullet choice.

Your friend needs to learn how to control his nerves and take some shootin lessons.

At 5 yards there should have been a blood trail. Watch Catman's first.

https://youtu.be/R010GBAbIwU

He did say he had to shoot through some small limbs, that could have been the problem I'm guessing.

Lazy carpenters always blame their tools

One reason I switched to .308. Had a couple low penetration hits. Practice helps too.

Yo friend can't shoot.

It’s funny how it is always the gun or the bullet, and never the shooter.

Happened to me this week and ive killed a bunch of bucks hard to explain.. I was shaking after the shot tho

10 years ago, my then 7yo shot a buck at 105yds (inreally didnt realize it was that long of a shot) with a nef hb2 30/30. Regular ol $9.99 ammo of some sort. Center punched 2 .3" holes. No blood trail whatsoever. Thankful he just ran 30-40 yards and piled.

I’ve killed a slew of deer with a 30-30…..probably close to 100…..I quit keeping count somewhere around the 70 mark….Actually I just lost count and quit caring. I started hunting with it when I was 13 and it was the only gun I used until I was nearly 30 years old. I just used the plain old 170 grain flat nosed bullets and my aiming point was always about 3 inches behind the shoulder. I never had any problems losing deer. I can’t recall a single one that I hit solid that wasn’t recovered. I remember back slapping one and it getting away and I missed a couple but never one like being described by the OP…..I did try the silver tip bullets for a brief period and I would recommend leaving them on the shelf for someone else to buy. They fragment on impact and often times don’t leave an exit hole. After shooting a few deer with them and finding the fragments imbedded in the offside rib cage I went back to the plain old flat nosed. Also, hitting a deer in the shoulder with a silver tip is just asking for it to fragment into the meat and bone and never make it into the body cavity. I tracked one for a guy last year that did just that……

30-30’s are a tried and true deer killer. The only reason I switched to a 30-06 is because I started hunting properties in south Alabama where I needed to be able to shoot farther distances.

I tracked several deer last year shot with a 30 30. All dead within 100 yards and none of them had an exit wound or any blood that we could find on the ground.

My buddy is going to try different ammo. Here’s what he has

• Hornady Leverevolution 160 grain ftx

Or

• Remington Core Lokt 170 grain Soft Point

Which do you recommend?



Wilbanks, that’s exactly what I think probably happened. The boys a pretty good shot. I helped him look for the buck, but man it was thick. I figure he’s probably dead close by.

Nothing is cut and dry in putting lead in a live animal.Things happen.Many,many variables involved.I killed a 185lb 8, two days before Christmas.Typical shot behind shoulder with a 150gr Core-Lokt in .280 at 60 yards.Deer ran 30 yards and fell dead.Bullet blew through ribs on both sides.Not a drop of blood except where he lay.Sometimes crazy stuff happens...

Leverevolution 160 work really good in my .30-30, I love them in that caliber.

Got to think of shooting a deer with that caliber like when bow-hunting.. You can't just expect to aim center mass and knock them down and blow stuff up when you hit them, you need to be aiming at the heart or looking for vital pass-through. I lost a nice buck with .3030 shooting down through the shoulder blades, no penetration, no pass through, poor buck died somewhere else. That's why I have a .308/.30-06. They do a little more damage at those angles and mass shots.

had to be hard angle shot . only ones i never had exit holes were with a$$ shot running away or looking dead at me and a gut shot . love to know what ammo they were using and shot placement . .

bull $hit , you need to leave those Leverevolution 160 on the self then . i've gutted a whole lot of deer killed with 30-30's and they will mess a deer up .

A dear friend of mine lives, and guided hunts down in Forest Home, AL back in the 80's with a 30/30 with raised scope so he could use the open sights. He has killed some gooduns with that 30/30. He called to wish me a Merry Christmas, and was going to take the younguns out for a hunt (owns alot of land), and I ask him if he ever uses that old 30/30 when we hunted together as younguns. His response: That's all I hunt with, and he has a pile of guns that just sits in the safe for shooting or whatever.

Have killed a pile of deer in my life with a 30-30. My nephew shot a buck on our place a while back at over 200 yds with his 30-30 & dropped him where he stood with a clean pass thru. Kinda shocked me he hit him at that range & was shooting without a rest. Also he was only 13. Doubt I could have made that shot. Most folks that miss or lose a deer want to b?ame something other than self. Any high power rifle, 30-30 included with the right bullet put where it counts will put a deer down in a hurry.

I just started hunting with my 30-30 Marlin this season. No deer yet , but it likes the 150 grain core lokts a little better than the 170 grain. Just a little tighter groups at 100 yds. Haven’t tried anything else on paper, hopefully to have a deer with it this year.
That rifle just feels right in my hands, balanced and seems light.

Grundan, if your 336 is like mine- a jm model, you probly don't want to feed it those Hornady lever revolutions. Mine absolutely will not cycle them & jam. Tried em one time & that was it. Mine also groups better with 150s & Winchester shells.I think the Hornady shells require a cup type magazine follower that you can get but I don't plan on using em.

lol , the marlins i used i use i site them in with 170gr rem soft pt, at a 100. then just fed it what ever i had in my pocket the rem 150 hollow pt was just bad on deer . Rems , Feds and Win ammo all work great back then . i dont know nothing about the ammo thats been out for the last 20 years though but the old stuff was killers .

i've seen some ugly holes made by the old winchester silver tips and the rem hollow points .

All i used was a 3030. I still like to use it most today. I always shot cheap remington or winchesters. I shot a doe in the rump and it exited out through her neck. I use to target practice on trees. Shooting trees that were 8 to 10 inches thick and the bullets passin right through it. Cedar trees. Hack berry trees. Shootin from 80 yards away. I love those guns.

A complete pass through on a 10” tree is impressive.

I know right! Try shooting trees lol. You might be shocked at how powerful a 30 30 really is. I have a few higher powered bolt guns. I still choose my 30 30 if im less than 200 yards visibility. To me its the short gun, with 7 rounds. I can shoot way faster with a lever than bolt and have twice the ammo. I killed a good 10 point the other day with it.

This one? http://www.aldeer.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2691549&gonew=1#UNREAD

Speaking of....

I think people immediately want to blame a bad shot or the bullet or something else they can't explain. If you haven't lost a deer you haven't shot very many. Of all the deer I have shot and not recovered I would say the overwhelming majority have been because I shot a sapling or limb between me and the deer. If I don't see much blood I always look between where I was shooting from and where the deer was standing. It is a good way to kill a few more minutes before you continue your pursuit.

I don't think people in general even consider this. Y'all put this in your memory bank and look next time you might be surprised to find a bullet hole in a tree limb.

This, this, and this. The only thing that keeps a bullet stable is it's high rate of spin. You break that spin and cause the bullet to mushroom even a hair by clipping a limb and it will fly feet off target or turn into buckshot.

I have yet to shoot anything with my 30-30 that didn't drop it inside 50 yards. Everything I've shot with leverevolution left a solid exit wound significantly larger than the round itself.

My groups with it from a bench rest were inside an inch and a half at 100 yards (red dot)

I have killed a few with round nose hornady interlock that didn't exit, but the deer hit the deck within a few steps.

If your friend was shooting through brush, I suspect there is a better than average chance the bullet deflected. Many won't like this, because its trouncing a near and dear axiom that has been utteted at every hunting camp for the last 100 years... but there is no such thing as a *brush gun*. 30-30, 7mag, 223, 375H&H.... if any of those bullets impact a limb, twig, etc between the muzzle and target, it will produce a deflection of some degree. Round nose slow, or spitzer running 3500.... all are subject to damage and course changes in flight, when encountering obstacles.

I watched these videos a while back, I don’t agree with all his theories but it was fun to watch even though it is inconsistent and not scientific
Watch both if you have time

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P5dve7vAY9I



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zCOzNzIkN4M

Back in the 80's when we would blast everything with horns that broke the hairline I shot a small 5 pointer with a 30-30 at about 10-15 yards right under the tree. We were hunting up on Skyline and I was sitting on a board in a cedar tree in about the thickest place I could find at least an hour walk from the truck. He came through the cedars about 7:15 and I shot him right in the shoulder. He went uphill and straight up the gnarliest steep and rocky bench I've probably ever been forced to climb on three legs running like cat. He looked like he was hit hard to me the bullet had knocked the deer down. There was no question he was hit. A baseball cap full of hair and a little blood at the scene. Close enough I could have about jumped on it with my knife in my teeth like a real man. I gave it about an 30 to an hour and started tracking. Once I got over the top of the mountain and was walking around all over the far said looking everywhere... by late morning I decided this was a futile effort. The blood finally petered out. I went back to the scene of the crime and sat down and pulled a sammich out of my pack and started to eat lunch. I looked around the scene there and about 1/2 way through lunch I noticed a little sapling about 1.5 inches around with a few splinters. Walked over there and about broadside height on a deer was a hole shot through it. Centered it. I took my limb saw out and sawed it off and I've still got it somewhere. I think it is in a box of old deer horns I was keeping for knife handles.

It happens to the best of us.

.30-30 Marlin Marauder with a 150 grain Silver Tip. First deer I ever lost shooting through a limb or sapling. Last time I didn't consider it a possibility if the deer wasn't laying dead within about 100 yards.

I'll fess up and take my public shaming. Last week I had a wild notion and pulled out the iron sight Win. Model 94 30-30 out of the safe where it has been for 15 years without being fired. I decided I was going to kill a deer with it. I found 7 rounds for it in a one of the plastic holders. They were at least 15 years, I suspect even several years older. I throw holder with rounds in my hunting bag and hunt. The first deer I saw was about 125 yards and I just watched him make two scrapes and he never came close to what I thought was a comfortable shot. A couple more young bucks were seen but don't meet our criteria. I wanted meat so it was going to be a doe or mature buck. No does came close but finally a mature deer with a rack that wasn't all that desirable started feeding my way. When he turned broadside at about 100 yrds. I decided to take the shot while there was still light to see the sights. I shot 3 times and he never flinched. Long story short while I was looking for the other four rounds and then reloading, he was walking towards me. Four more shots as close as 50 yards and he kept feeding. 7 shots, 7 misses. I can honestly shoot my pistol better than that.

I bought another box of cartridges so I can find out what is wrong. We can rule out buck fever, but not any other error on my part yet. I'm guessing that the back sight was knocked back a tad causing me to shoot high. I say high because if it had been low, one of the 7 would have caused it to flinch. I had my video camera and had it set up on the wrong side of the house, so I never moved it and used it. I love my cowboy gun but dang, I need to figure out the problem.

Let the shaming begin!

Yep, grew up hunting rolling wooded hills in Tallapoosa County and lost deer with 35 Rem, 30-06 and 270 when hitting limbs or saplings. Sometimes just didn’t pickup up something between me and the deer when tracking through limbs with a scope waiting on the best open shot. It happens!111

A while back I shot a six point that was standing in a scrape. He ran off from the direction he came from & I thought I missed him. About 15 or 20 feet away from the scrape & right in line from my stand I noticed a young oak tree about 3" in diameter with a hole blown completely through it. The bullet exactly centered the tree with no glance to the left or right. When I saw that figured no deer but went around the trail he ran on & saw him laying about 60 or 70 yards from where he was shot & very dead. The bullet had hit him low in the shoulder & I aimed center on his shoulder & also went slam through him. The tree only deflected it downward slightly. Shot with a 375 Winchester rifle. Made me think of the A - team with BA and Face using pieces of tin to shield em from automatic weapons fire. I don't think so. It's incredible what high velocity chunks of metal can do.

Guys, a bone stock lever action WILL NOT FEED Hornady Lever Revolution ammo without replacing the magazine follower. The pointed ammunition gets canted at an angle when trying to feed from the magazine to the receiver. You can either 1) get a new magazine follower from Marlin or 2) take out your magazine follower, heat it up with a cigarette lighter, and then push the tip of a Hornady LeverRevolution round into it so as to form a new follower. If you don't get too crazy, the magazine follower will allow feeding of both rounds. This is my experience with my 1895M .450 Marlin. YMMV.

Thanks Mauser, good info.

I haven’t shot any Hornady ammo, the Remington groups well enough and I suspect will perform if I put it in the right spot