Alabama Deer Years Ago

I was talking to my grandfather about the Great Depression Years/WW2 recently and the topic of deer came up. He grew up in Section (near Scottsboro) and lived there until he was 21. He left in approximately 1950 and told me nobody in Section ever saw any deer the whole time he can remember living there; he said he knows for a fact he never saw a single one in person as a child/adolescent until he moved away.

I knew people were poor & hungry, but that really surprised me. I'm guessing all the deer were killed off pretty quick? Does anybody know how long it took for them to come back to an appreciable level?

That's a really interesting question. Skinny wrote a paper about the history of deer in Alabama a while back and posted it. Maybe I or someone else can find that link ...

Here it is ... Deer in Alabama, a brief discussion of the last 12,000 years

Well shoot, it discusses how the population goes down but not much during the 1900's when it came back. Either way though, he is the expert, hopefully he will chime in here and fill you in

I never saw a deer in Jefferson county along the Cahaba River when I was growing up and I spent a LOT of time along that river till I was 18 and left. I came back in 1992 and there were more deer there than in Greene County.

From what I understand, deer in AL had been pretty much eliminated by 1950, other than a few isolated pockets, mostly around the swamps in and around Mobile. Deer were re-stocked in AL from Georgia, Michigan, Texas and various other places during the 1950's to re-establish the population, which is one reason we have such a wide variety of rut times in the state. Down in SE AL, even in the early 1970's, it was quite the topic of discussion if anybody even saw a deer track, much less and actual deer.

Here's a good article about Raymond Jones and his work re-establishing deer and turkey in North AL

The recovery of deer in the south is pretty incredible to hear about.

They were wiped out by commercial hunters when Venison could be sold.

LUMPY's and my father grew up in Scottsboro in a farming family in rural area (Tupelo Pike). All they did was "shoot stuff" when their dad wasn't working them to death... they have a great story about the first deer they ever saw and their father, who had lived there his entire life and big hunter also, didn't even believe them until they showed the evidence. That would have been in the early-mid 60s, so yea, it's amazing how far we've come since then!!

my maternal grandfather, who grew up in valley head, used to hunt deer from horseback down there. i think they did more drinking from horseback than actual hunting. i remember when my uncle jimmy killed a spike in the 1950s just on the tennessee side of what would be skyline today. it was huge news back then ...

They were wiped out by the CCC work camps during the depressions era. These camps did most of their work on State or Federal lands to build roads in the State and National parks. I am old enough to have talked to men who worked in these camps because there were no other jobs to be had and they had to eat.
When the deer were released in Crenshaw county in the early 60s we would ride the roads on Saturday just to see if we could find tracks, this was a big deal and fun. I lived about 6-7 miles from the release area and it took about 15 years before the deer herd grew enough the see deer on our farm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_Conservation_Corps

A lot of factors helped create the decline in wildlife populations: the Civil War, Reconstruction, market hunting, the Depression and until the early 1900s no wildlife laws or regulations.

The same helped a decline in bird populations, too, especially market hunting and the fashion industry in the U.S. and Europe. Not just waterfowl, either. Songbirds were sold in markets in the Northeast and elsewhere. Christmas holiday shoots were big deals for families and towns, a sort of celebration. The annual Audubon Christmas Bird Counts were begun as a way to inventory birds but also try to stem the tide of the excessive shooting.

The restoration of deer, turkey and other wildlife in the Southeast is pretty amazing.

There were a few in Jackson Co. mainly along the river prior to the restocking efforts in the late 50s and early 60's. My understanding it was rare to see some.

But we dont' need no stinkin regulations! I havent killed a spiker-r-doe on my place in years!!!!

Who's advocating for no regulations?

Oh. No one.

I remember the first time I saw any kind of deer sign was about 1956 about half way between Opp and Florala. There was an old home place with a smoke house and my daddy was showing me the deer tracks where they were licking the salt from the old boards.

Knew an old man from the vally 35 years ago. He was an indian and had lived there all his life. Told me he remembered seeing many bears before see deer.

C'mon man. You're butthurt every time someone mentions anything alluding to it.

Ah, I knew you'd chime in. You can't help yourself.

So I'll explain again, one final time and clearly enough that even you may understand since I know you're an intelligent guy. I know that. You and others who keep wanting more laws and regulations and whatnot are smart guys. You just can't help wanting everyone to be in lockstep, though, and that won't happen.

I don't want zero regulations and never have advocated for that. Ever. You and a few others get on the "anarchy!" kick because it's easy to be a knee-jerk reactionary throwing out idiotic labels instead of understanding that some folks just don't want or like more intrusion than what we have.

However, the reality is that laws and regulations exist and in some cases are needed. Conservation is one of them.

That's the reality. We have them. We just don't need MORE of them or to an excess or to the degree that people finally say "Ah, screw it." and quit.

See how that works? I know you do.

So, to reiterate: Who's advocating for no regulations?

Oh, right. No one.

So you aren't against them (meaning laws, rules, regulations, etc.).... you are only saying you want the ones that you specifically want or that benefit you or possibly don't impact you.

Nothing that would benefit others. There is no need in your opinion. You don't need them so nobody else does.

You don't care about others. As long as you are ok then everyone else can go F-themselves.

That's what I read into what you just wrote.

Yep, you got it: Everyone can go f'ck themselves. That's what I was thinking. You nailed it!

Damn, you're smart.

Goatkiller, your post makes no sense. If Clem only wanted to benefit himself, he'd want MORE regulations, since he doesn't kill does. He would want doe killing outlawed. But that's not what he wants.

No, no ... don't try to figure him out, Rem. He's right. I want EVERYone else to go screw themselves and by-gum it'll all be OK.

the ignore feature is your friend.

It could be, but I've only put one person on ignore ever and that was for about 20 seconds. I figure I should be adult enough to consider someone else's viewpoint, even if I ultimately disagree or think it's silly, and then move on, without just blocking them.

I'd like to eat ice cream every day. The reality is I know I cannot. So I don't.

It's not a friggin' difficult concept to understand. What you want, and what the reality is, don't always jibe. So you accept the reality and make the most of it, or you try to get it changed if possible.

Glad I wasn't the only scratching my head and thinking "WTF?"

I was surprised to hear that my grandfather (born in 1925) had never shot a deer, at least not to my knowledge. He grew up in Marion County and may never have seen a deer there as a youngster. His focus was on dove and wore them out from what I understand.

I guess I'm not as smart as you guys.

Clem doesn't like regulations. People should be able to kill all the does they want. Let's use speed limits as an example. Clem says everyone should be able to drive whatever speed they want. Nobody speeds on his way to work because it is out in the country and 2 miles from his house. He sees no problem. No regulations required in his opinion.

I drive through downtown B'ham and people are speeding on the interstate in heavy traffic. I say that is unsafe and someone will get hurt so we need speed limits. More regulations.

Enlighten me.

No one is saying there shouldn't be game laws. You're taking it to the extreme. I could use your logic and ask why shouldn't a game warden accompany a hunter on every hunt to avoid any game violations? But that would be ridiculous.

I'm thinking you get the argument now. In my opinion there is nothing extreme about limits on game.

Being accompanied by a Game Warden... well that would be ridiculous but nobody is advocating for that.

...and nobody is advocating for no game laws like you were saying with the speed limit example.

I wonder how many other states allow you to kill a doe a day for 3 1/2 months ? So I don't think there is any fear of having too many regulations in this State lol

Yeah. It is very liberal. Probably change soon though, we'll see. Check out "Snapper Check" for government over-reach, if you've got a hankerin to get bent over by big brother

I like cheese

Goat killer go home your drunk! Thanks for derailing a great thread. Mods can you delete his comments so we can keep this thread going on topic

well, i like pie ...

My apologies to all for the initial derailment.

First deer I ever saw was late 1970s near Boligee. It was a doe. It looked at me. I looked at it. I didn't kill it.

I didn't see another deer for two more seasons, I believe.

It's amazing what has happened to the decline and rise of deer in Alabama and the Southeast.


Also, pie > cake.

My father started hunting as a child in the late '50s/early '60s in the Atmore area. They killed a few deer, not many, and it was the old-fashioned man-drive where if anybody got one they all got part of it. They NEVER shot does on purpose. It was a cardinal sin. But they'd knock down anything with an antler on it.
When the deer population of AL surpassed the human popuation the state eased up on the doe season restriction, giving hunters more choice and flexibility in which does they killed and when. Unfortunately, some have taken the liberal bag limit as a personal challenge, and, after several seasons of unrestrained doe killing, can push a local area back to 1960's population levels.

Back in 1990 when the Alabama River had the Historic Flood I counted 100 does on Hwy 59 at the Majors Creek Bridge. They had just built the new bridge and they planted winter grass. Not one single deer out the 100 had horns. You can ride Hwy 59 nowadays at night and not see a single deer. Times have sure changed.

I remember being in a club in sumpter co. In the late 70's.
There were very few deer. It was something to even see a track.
I only remember one deer being killed. I also remember looking for lost dogs.
I was also in a club in Dallas county in the early 80's.
There were deer everywhere. I also remember looking for lost dogs there.

We saw the first deer on our farm in tn in 1982. And that going back to around 1907 when an uncle I had who lived to 101 was growing up there. He died in 2005 but we used to laugh about it when I'd carry him deer meat. He was born in 1904 but always laughed and said he couldn't remember before his 3rd birthday.

My Dad is 81 and said it was something to talk about seeing deer in the 40-50's in West Va. I know in the late 70's/early 80's there were plenty.

Clem=49er



I hardly remember seeing any deer when I was a kid in Lauderdale county.

ill get onboard with the ice cream every day plan

For extra credit, when were elk released in Alabama and when and where was the last documented one killed??

Sounds a lot like my hunting in the 80's

Absolutely. Go, or try to go, out west on a hunt or two. A draw, bonus points, extremely short seasons, single animal bag limits, hunting zones close to each other that vary by days and animals, the list goes on. People complain, and I'm guilty of it also, but they really don't appreciate how good we have it sometimes.

My grandfather (born 1900)said when he was a boy that he saw herds of deer around Winston/walker county.
He also said that something happen to them like a die off or something because he never saw it like that again as a young man

The American conservation story is amazing and part of our exceptionalism.

These are the "good ole days" as far as I can tell. We've never had it better.

I read the other day, we have more white tails in this country now than at the time of Columbus' contact. Of course, the predators were massive in quantity and size then and no way to verify, but it certainly is a window into our unique conservation timeline.

I hunted Sumpter in the mid 60's. It was eye popping how many deer were down there at that time. I took some folks down first of Feb one time, we saw well over 1000 deer in half a daY AND 3-4 HOURS OF NIGHT LOOKING.

1860's, right after the war?

frak a deer.

Last one was killed in Calhoun County I believe. Don't remember the exact date they were introduced.

corrrect

My grandfather and his 12 brothers and sisters grew up in sumpter county just outside of York. He would tell me stories of him and his brothers killing 150+ deer a year. Said they had contests to see who could kill the most. I think they kept the local game wardens busy back then. My dad told me that when he was 16 years old he got caught trespassing 18 times one year on Kinterbish game preserve.

In 1916, 55 elk came in. 17 went to Tuscaloosa Co., 14 to Sumter Co., 12 to Pickens Co., and 12 to Calhoun Co.

Some elk died in Calhoun and the remaining elk where moved to Chilton Co. Where the last one was killed by a hunter in 1921.

Nab Drennen had a set of elk antlers at his camp in Tishabee that came from that area many years ago.