Forever Wild.

I know absolutely nothing about its holdings. But I don't have to to see the future. There is a Bill now where Forever Wild would start paying property tax to the state. Don't know how it would work, but like in all cases, the cost is passed on to the users. Hunters seem to be a $$$$ target these days.

Fine by me, FW has a bunch of $, they should do something besides buy property with it. They took a lot of property off the tax rolls in Jackson Co. Tax payers have to make it up.

That's the exact reason given in the article about the bill by a guy from Coosa Co. I know so little about FW that its not possible to form an opinion.

The Legislature is just trying to find ways to get its hands on the smidge of money from the offshore gas/oil lease that voters approved to use to purchase land for public use.

Just another way to tax the public without adding a tax they'll be more blasted for, like on gas or something else.

Maybe the state parks should pay taxes, too, and the DCNR for its WMA land leases.

FW is a trust that the money grubbing legislators can't get their hands on directly so they are trying to get it through the back door. If this money went to the county that lost the tax revenue it would be different but does anyone think that once the state gets it they are going to distribute it to the counties? If you do I know a Nigerian prince that needs to hide his money in the US before his evil uncle takes it.

You are kicking the top off an ant hill. I would like for you to get that published and watch Chuckys face when he reads it.

Perhaps the Legislature should tax the U.S. gubbermint for all the national forest lands here, too. Maybe the U.S. Corps of Engineers for taking up space on the rivers with ramps and such.

Lot of taxable possibilities, y'know.

I voted against Forever Wild funding for all these reasons.

I'm sick of taxes period. Every time we turn around they are taxing something else. I'd like to hear of somebody making some of the free loaders get of their cans and go to work.

Maybe the Legislature could create a new version of the Civilian Conservation Corps to build public-use facilities on the Forever Wild tracts, pay them with Forever Wild money and THEN they could tax the New CCC workers to get it!

Work AND taxes!

Damn, I need to get into th' Legislature. When's that Midterm 'lection?

Every time The press starts screaming people can't get jobs it would be nice to hear a legislator mention the CCC. Every time the press starts screaming about the delapidated infrastructure at state and national parks it would be nice to hear a legislator mention the CCC. Every time a president starts screaming about a wall it would be nice ...

The latest assault on FW is a slippery slope for the State. State property has been exempted from payment of ad valorem taxes since the beginning of statehood. If FW is an exception, why not all State owned land? The state would go bankrupt in a year.

Clay county needs to look at the revenue generated by FW properties and realize they are looking a gift horse in the mouth. Hunting, fishing, bird watching, hiking, etc., all generate money in lodging, transportation, services, and retail. There is not much else attracting people to Clay county.

And, the Federal government does reimburse the State of Alabama for lost ad valorem taxes under the LWCF, the reauthorization of which public land opponents have fought in recent years. Why? Because the same people who are telling us the counties are losing money from the tax exemption want you to believe the federal public lands are bad too. It is typical manipulation of public perception to reach a special interest's financial goals, the best interests of the People be damned.

I'd forgotten how many acres of Forever Wild land is connected with or assists with WMA lands.

http://alabamaforeverwild.com/sites/default/files/fwhuntingWMA2015_16.pdf

Forever Wild is about the only state level program in Alabama functioning in an appropriate fashion. This must be stopped or we might move up from the 49th state on whatever the latest scale is.

Clay County has some of the best gold prospecting in the state. I've never understood why more folks there haven't opened up more land to that recreation yet. There's the Alabama Gold Camp and that is it. It would be awesome to see forever Wild buy some property there along one of the bigger creeks just for that purpose. A lot of folks would gladly pay for a prospecting permit and it would draw more folks to the county. And no telling how many of em would have to pay a possession of alcohol ticket.

I love forever wild properties. I know a few of the state lands officers and biologist that oversee them. They are good folks. I like to hunt public property for the pure challenge of it. Forever wild has been a godsend to public hunting. Without it, I'm sure one deer would cost me $2,000 or more instead of $300.

When they buy a property, they don't just purchase the land, they have to set aside the the funds necessary to take care of that land also. This idea of taxing Forever Wild is plain BS. Seems to me like it is just plain jealousy because one program this state has actually works. If it passes, it will mean a halt to buying property for the foreseeable future and I can't abide by that. Don't piss me off.

Don't think so, at least not from FW funds, they can only buy with it. That's another problem in Jackson County, tens of thousands of acres of barely managed land.

Some others on here can attest to this fact when I say it, but some of what was once among the finest hunting land in Dallas County (Calloway Plantation) is now Forever Wild land. I don't hear of many people taking advantage of it however. If I wanted to hunt this area and didn't have access to private land, I sure be looking into it. Kudos for a good program for hunters. Don't need our money hungry politicians messing with it.

That's a strong hint for you guys looking for some good public hunting land.

All of this right here. Property tax suck BTW. We are all just serfs to the state.

the cahaba forever wild was not part of calloway, it was owned by Ward. It was certainly very good hunting initially and all the hunters became a serious headache for people that lived on its boundary. there were several different groups that would man drive through peoples yards. It seemed to calm down this year.

money grubbing asshat politicians just trying to steal more money to squander on useless shitt, screw em. Leave FW money alone.

I'm glad to hear they quit doing man drives on Cahawba but it still gets hunted quite a bunch. I've hunted it since the place opened. It is a night and day difference from the way it used to be. Maybe the new has worn off and folks will quit going out there and shooting everything that walks. There's going to be a new Dallas County WMA down by Portland Landing/Elm Bluff in the next few years thanks to Forever Wild.

I hope they shut Forever Wild down.

I hope they don't buy another square foot in Jackson Co.

Why is that?

Please keep in mind FW only buys land that the land owner brings to them asking them to buy it. They are not going to the owners looking to buy.

Not true for several large tracts in Jackson Co.

You got a problem with people that can't afford a club hunting? I think it is a great program and would serve on their board or help in other ways if I could.

I am corrected. It was the Ward place, not Calloway. they are in the same area and I'm not too familiar with the area so my mind intermingles the two.

I don't but I heard of one individual that considers not paying to hunt as being on an entitlement program.

Touché

You and me both David. I'm even in a hunting club and still hunt public land. I can't tell ya the number of folks I have ferried to public land honey holes. Most folks have this stigma attached to public land just because of plain ignorance. The next FW meeting is at 5 rivers in Spanish Fort in a week or two I think. Can't remember the exact date but I plan to go.

I'm just across the river from the Ward place so I know the potential. Another underutilized public land hunting opportunity in this area is the bowhunting on Corps of Engineers land. Very high quality land. Alabama Blackbelt quality, not Kansas quality just to be clear that I'm not exaggerating.

This may not be entirely accurate. Their mission statement says they seek to buy lands that exist in environmentally sensitive areas. They are not forcing anyone to sell property, but they may very well inquire if a specific tract could be purchased. I don't know for certain, that's just my interpretation based on some of the things I've read.

The state spends a whole lot of money on things that I will never, ever, ever enjoy or receive a tangible benefit from, FW is not one of those things. I rather enjoy hunting public land from time to time and there was a time when public was all I had access to hunt.

I don't understand the hatred for public lands - state or federal - and desire to shut them down, sell them or whatever.

If they're sold they will not be public land anymore. They'll be developed, scoured, raped and privatized. Rivers access will be closed. Foreign owners likely would be in play.

And then all the bitching about not having anywhere to go, hunting-outdoors opportunities are "only for the rich!" and all the other idiotic bulldoodoo complaining that exists NOW from a lot of people would only get worse.

Not to mention fewer future hunters, and future erosion of hunting rights.

And when hunting goes, gun rights go. Very few people are introduced to firearms outside of hunting, period.

Spot on Clem. If anyone is interested in what goes on at a FW board meeting, how land is nominated, how the money is being spent, read the minutes from the meetings.


PDF> Feb 2017 meeting minutes

I saw/heard FW big shots at a land auction beg Paul Bryant Jr. not to run the price up on them as they only had X number of $ to spend. FW has worn their welcome out in Jackson Co. with many locals. Starting about 15 years ago, folks from LA should have been screaming for them to buy land in their areas.

FW went in on a significant portion of the Delta acquisition, if I recall right, about 10-15 years ago.

To the point about Bryant, FW always has worked to keep the prices low and has not hidden that fact. They don't trumpet it but they don't deny trying to get the lowest price(s) possible. They know once word gets out, people automatically think "Heh, they have a shitpile of money so let's run up the price!" The reality is they do only have x-amount of money to spend and use for management.

If anyone keeps up with FW, too, they never announce what tracts they're considering for that specific purpose - to keep people (or groups) from running up the prices. They've done that since FW's inception. Other land acquisition groups in other states do the same, just like anyone in the public buying a piece of land. If I was looking at 500 acres I wouldn't be going around talking about it and then have to deal with Jacky Dumbass next door trying to pay more. Word may get out but it wouldn't be because I (or FW, in their case), went around tooting horns about it.

Like any government agency they're probably not perfect but IMO they're far from evil scoundrels and are a benefit to the state.

Lol

If you're referring to me, then you're way off base. To the contrary, actually.

I'm not. I'm speaking in general about public lands throughout the US, state and fed.

I've been to a lot of land auctions , never seen anyone ask a major player not to run the price up. I ve seen buyers get a bargain and still complain about the #2 bidder running up the price. It's a public auction, if you can pay for it, set a price and bid, because the other guy dang sure will.

That would be weird at an auction, I agree. Wouldn't surprise me if the FW folks did it, though. I've always heard them, from Day 1, talk about trying to get the lowest prices possible and being hush-hush about any land-related discussions or purchases. They wouldn't even drop hints or anything.

From reading the meeting minutes of the last couple of years the impression I got was that they are not seeking but being approached. I may be incorrect, it's happened before.

So what is your beef with FW?

The majority of FW properties that are considered are offered by the landowner. They also get word of tracts from organizations or folks who know a tract's landowner may be interested.

Please elaborate what your issue is with FW, many of us want to know

I know that guy, too! I only had to send him $500 to cover handling and processing fees, along with my bank numbers, and he's gonna let me keep $25,000,000 of the money he's going to put in my account! I can hardly wait!

Guys, I don't see what's wrong with FW. It's not their fault if the gvmnt comes after tax dollars. Why not set aside land that will never be developed?

I support FW... at least what I know about it.

I guess we will just have to speculate why N2TRKYS doesn't like Forever Wild. I'll go with one of the board members beat him up and stole his lunch money in the third grade until he explains.

I did a job bout a year ago for a guy that was running for state auditor. I didn't fully understand what he was saying but he said that fw was a back door way for the guberment to sell natural resources to other country's.

Now that would be a legit gripe if they've sold any.

Geezzzzz! I don't see why the hatred. 2Dogs, if you're buying land, wouldn't you want the best price? Nothing wrong with trying to get the lowest price. I WOULD attempt that and everybody on this site would too!!

I'd rather FW buy the land than to have it developed by some greedy developer and the developer build houses or a Walmart on the property.

I just don't get it why FW is being demonized.

With one set of posts talking about $30 an acre leases, there has to be some level of public land ownership. Otherwise hunting and gun ownership will be reserved for richest of ya'll. This excludes the likes of me.

Selling our natural resources to other countries isn't exactly a new concept. It would be a big problem if that's being done under the table with the monies not making by back into the general fund nor FW. Money getting skimmed in government isn't exactly a new concept either. Which gets us back to taxing the lands of a state agency.

Lest we be accused of favoritism all federal, state, county and local government lands need to pay advolorum property taxes to the general fund. That way the money can be swung in and out of various accounts until the origins are untraceable. It's called money laundering. Taxing the property of one state program is no moe or less stupid than taxing all of them.

HEY MONTGOMERY! SPEND LESS NOT TAX MORE!

They have 10's of thousands of acres in Jackson Co. Don't have the $ to manage and maintain it properly. Why in the name of Chuck didn't they get some of that oil windfall money set aside for management when it was renewed a few years ago is beyond me. It's off the tax rolls, gone forever. Jackson Co. needs all they can get as they're always broke. Go figure. I was talking with a gentleman who was on the FW board several years ago, he is disgruntled with FW now.
As far as development , I don't know what they buy in LA, but in Jackson Co. it's probably the most rugged land in the state. Not gonna be any subdivisions and Wally Worlds on it.
I do want the " best price" , that would be low when buying, high when selling. Has nothing to do with it.

Without FW, I wouldn't be able to hunt. FW does what it does well, and I have 0 faith that the Montgomery Morons will be able to do anything productive with the money they're after.

If I thought this money could do 1 cent of good for education, business development, or public safety, I could be persuaded to let it go, but, considering our former Gov ordered a taxpayer funded helicopter to run halfway across the state for his forgotten wallet, I'd rather have my hunting land stay the way it is.

I went to the Forever Wild Board meeting in Spanish Fort today. After Commissioner Guy made some preliminary remarks, the floor was open to public comment. Several landowners spoke to the board requesting Forever Wild buy their land. There was no arm twisting by the board, these people specifically want to sell to Forever Wild.

Big Canoe Creek Preserve in Springville received supporting comments from their local State Representative, a St. Clair county commissioner, and the mayor of Springville. The Mayor said while some counties don't appreciate Forever Wild, St. Clair county and Springville have done the math and they understand the economic and conservation benefits and they are ready to go.

All of the procedures for land purchase were discussed at length. It was clear Forever Wild cannot pay more than appraised value, so they have no way to outbid anyone. Also, Forever Wild must set aside 15% of the appraised value in a stewardship fund for maintenance, so, yes, they did think of that.

There were 26 properties on the short list for consideration, but only $7.6 million available for this fiscal year. The properties are evaluated based on highest use and graded accordingly. The board is tasked with making final decisions regarding best use of the available money.

The experience was enlightening and well worth the time. It's clear the arguments often made against Forever Wild are simply untrue. Some special properties are being considered for addition to our public WMAs, which is great news considering our net loss of WMA land over the last few years. I would definitely recommend everyone attend one of these meetings.

Thanks for that update and filling everyone in on the agenda.

Couple of questions , who does the appraisals? Is the 15% management money for the full time the state will own the property? Does the 15% come from oil windfall money as does money to purchase?

Keep in mind the information I am relaying here is just what I heard at the board meeting. I don't work for them or the state. But, at several points, they mentioned they had "approved appraisers." I don't know who they may be.

Also mentioned was one tract which had been proposed last year but was withdrawn by the landowner because the landowner did not like the appraisal.

Patti Powell, the Lands Director, said the purchase money and the 15% stewardship fund comes out of the Forever Wild trust money collected through royalties. So, as she explained it, in order to buy a piece of property which is appraised at $100, they have to have $115.

She also said they attempt to utilize the interest off of the stewardship fund for maintenance rather than principle. That leads me to believe the stewardship fund money all goes in one account for maintenance of all tracts, rather than separate accounts for each parcel.

Also, the minutes (court reporter transcript) of the meetings are online.

Sounds like they are using interest for the maintenance $. I may be wrong but I don't think either the original law or the one passed a few years ago to renew allowed for oil windfall funds to be used for anything other than purchases. Perhaps they use interest off of interest.

According to what I heard today the law requires the fund. Not sure but when all else fails read the statute, right?

Here is a link to Amendment 543

http://law.justia.com/constitution/alabama/CA-246386.html

Looks to me like the stewardship account is authorized from trust funds in Section 3(e)..

[/quote]Does the 15% come from oil windfall money as does money to purchase?[/quote]
Which begs to questions where did the money to purchase all that Jackson co land come from?

Can't remember, but I believe FW can team up with other orgs like DU or Nature Conservancy and pool money to purchase land. Seems like that's what happened with one of the tracts in Jackson County and also in the Delta.

Yes, there was also discussion of matching grants.

Thanks for posting. Looks like they have a means for "stewardship" but it's very limited what they can do with the $.

Yes , I think they have acquired property 4 different ways in Jackson Co. Land swaps with Alabama Power and Nature Conservancy is another. Not all came directly from FW $. Always sounded confusing to me.

It's amazing what one can learn when one actually attends a meeting. Good for you for going!

I almost went to it also. Decided not to because of this bad cough I have. I think NOAA pitched in some funds to buy a lot of the land around weeks bay if I'm not mistaken. The nature conservancy outright buys some land and then sells it to forever wild. I think that was the case with Old Cahawba.