Baiting Vs. Food Plots

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/whit...SbEFtDJYvsKG.01

Question? If baiting becomes legal, do you think hunters that do not approve of baiting, will be more out to seek a club that prohibits baiting ?

Sure they will. There will be non- baiters and masterbaiter clubs. Oh and fist fights when a masterbaiter tries to sneak corn into a non corn club.

I think they will . I also think there will be a dilemma , bait cause everyone around you does or don't and see what happens as far as numbers of deer. I'm. Not a fan of baiting , but it makes money and afraid that's all the lawmakers care about

I moved to this area from North Alabama in 1997. One of the first things I was told was "If you want to kill deer or turkeys here, you better use corn. You can bet your neighbor is". I didn't get to hunt much this past deer season. However, it was the fewest deer I've seen around the farm since we've lived here. I wondered all season which neighbor was pouring the corn to them.

Answer: All of them

With the 100 yard rule, there was a LOT of corn being put out, but not all of it was being hunted over. With the drought causing poor food plots (or non-existent), I'm guessing last year was a record year for corn sales in Alabama.

Would have been nice if all that money would have been spent to improve the natural habitat and forage.

That's a false dichotomy. You're never going to get guys spending $10 a weekend to put that money into habitat.

I suggest everybody hunt public land for 10 - 15 years and either learn how to hunt or just move on to the next ego sport du jour.

And stop hunting the rut.

I'm in the outdoors almost everyday. Spent 6 hours this morning working on a food plot and shooting lanes. On others property I go on there usually is corn. IF...IF all my neighbors have been doing it and I don't, then nothing should change for me. And I can say this past season I hunted more than I have in a long time and for whatever reason enjoyed it more. So, the neighbors can keep on baiting, legal or illegal, I don't care.

No difference. Food plots are there more consistent compared to corn.

Lol I believe I'll stick with private land

Not really.

I highly doubt that people won't plant food plots if the baiting bill passes

I think some will and some won't. I hate to say it but some hunters have become lazy and don't know how to hunt nor do they want to. Corn isn't a magic pill to automatically kill more deer. Nothing compares to scouting, playing the wind and simply getting lucky sometimes. In some states you probably need corn to kill a deer but in MS and AL you don't. More and more clubs are going to baiting "because it's legal".

I don't know how much more it could get. It would be interesting if a feed store has kept up with how much corn they have sold each year for the last 5 years and what they sell next year if it passes.

Our club is probably going to prohibit all baiting.

Interesting decision. Why? How many members?

Funny part is, it is and has been and will continue to be put out. Legal or not.

LOL

What is the next complaint???

The price of corn fritters is gonna be so high they are gonna quit having County Fairs??

Hunting over corn = sugar in cornbread

There will be a lot of Big Tracts taken up for pay hunt clubs...no high fence,but high corn cribs with fences around them, so only deer can get to the feed....buck will jump a high fence)6ft)....Texas has come to'Bama!

Lol I didn't word that good at all. My bad. I just meant a food plot is there 24/7 and corn will have to be refilled. Is there a difference in what they're purpose is, no.

There are not many plots that you can plant that will provide food 365, but a feeder can always be kept full, and doesn't suffer from drought, flood, army worms, etc...

I agree.

As of when I last checked, baiting is still illegal. It is supplemental feeding out of sight and more than a hundred yards that is legal. Of course, if I were to bet, baiting will be legal soon.

There is a difference between baiting and supplemental feeding.

hmmmm I wonder... deer become feeder trained.. people start seeing plenty of deer... population booms due to readily accessible food source... they no longer feel the need to shoot the first thing that walks out..... hunter mindset changes an they become more selective towards older mor mature deer.... we sart growin deer consistently bigger across the board. texas minus cactus and illegas hehe

Should have told that to those writing the regulation that said "As it applies to the hunting of deer and feral swine, there shall be a rebuttable presumption that any bait or feed.."

Therefore, if you place "bait" 100 yards away and it is hidden by natural means, then that is legal.

Haven't you heard, baiting is the devil. Nothing positive could possibly come from this. Every other state that has tried this has failed miserably and all their deer are either nocturnal or non-existent because they died of disease. People being selective...who ever heard of such nonsense. (For any sarcastically challenged folks, this is sarcasm).

Dont bet on it.

Not according to those enforcing and punishing the offenders, but we've been down that road before. Bait is used to entice game to a hunter and is illegal still, probably not for long though, period.

I know, I know...I can't help they can't read and understand English...the reg says "bait or feed".

I just hope that if something passes, it will be unambiguous (a guy can hope, can't he?)

I don't understand all the fuss over legal baiting, if baiting makes you happy , do it, if you don't like baiting, don't do it just because baiting may be legal, does not mean that you have to do it.

One thing is for sure, just going out to the woods and pouring out a couple of sacks of corn is not a guaranteed way to kill a nice deer.

It would probably make it easier to kill does and young bucks. If it becomes legal, I'm sure there will be a few nice ones killed over a pile of corn, but that will become the exception and not the rule, I am guessing.

You'd think we've shot somebody

I don't understand the confusion about Supplemental Feed. Put it where you don't hunt, and feed the deer. That's really pretty simple.

because folks want to take advantage of the deer going to the "supplemental feed"...making it into "bait".

Exactly, no one wants to hunt where the deer aren't. They are going to go where the deer are. For some reason those making the rules have decided to make it as complicated and confusing as they can. It should be simple, corn and other feed, illegal or legal? Period. No more complicated than that.

I just hope most of you are as sick of these converstions as i am. I could care less what anybody even my neighbors are doing. Im gonna do just like i always have, plant the best plots i can, plant fruit and acorn producing trees when i can and if i get the urge to dump or some rice bran or put corn in my feeder i will.

We did a lot of cross country type flying when I was stationed down there. You guys would be surprised how many feeders and how much corn was on the ground before Bama allowed it.

The problem with that statement is NOBODY wants to HUNT and find where the deer are and go to where the deer are, they want to bait them to where they want them to be to make it easier to kill them.
It's the whole hunt, find, read sign and plan a strategy to kill a deer that most "hunters" can't, won't or refuse to do. They would much rather bait up a place they can easily get to and kill a deer, pat themselves on the back, brag around the water cooler and hurry to watch some football game instead of, dare I say it, hunt.
Baiting just needs to be legal cause hunting is just too incredibly hard and boring if I have to do all that other stuff! Jeesh!!

So, when you search and "find" the deer and they are on your neighbor's property because he is feeding them, then what do you do?

Hunting over bait will not be the most effective way to kill a mature buck, especially on land that receives any amount of pressure, IMO. Sure, it will probably happen but most of the mature bucks will still require scouting, skill and/or luck to kill them.

We already have...

I guess one could sit on the property line and be frustrated or they could hunt somewhere else. If the neighbor is not hunting over the "feed" then there is not a thing you can do. If the neighbor is illegally poaching deer over the bait then one should let the GW know and move on.

What happens if the neighbor has a 500 acre corn field with hardwoods and brushy creek bottoms and a person has 500 acres of 6 year old pine trees, does one bait their place up because they are not seeing any deer or do they move on to find something they would rather hunt?

Reason I asked the question, is Ima thinking were are going to have a bunch of openings once the masterbaiters see the new club rules around mid April

I doubt we will. Most of our 8 man group are traditional bow hunters so it won't change for them.

yep.

We have divided up our lease into a non-corn side and a corn side

Even with 24 members we rarely have a single spot marked on the map signifying corn is out.

With all that said, we may try to add a few spots next season. We need to try to improve our foodplots and this past season we didn't do any summer plots, but we had a few areas on our lease that I personally witnessed multiple deer leaving our property heading to the neighbors on multiple occasions.

But they can't get away from the wrath of a squirrel

Well let me ask you this. How many days do you think hunters scout a green patch before their woodsmanship skills collect enough trail sign data to indicate they need to climb in the shooting house that has been overlooking it all along? LOL!

If corn hunting is lazy slob hunting then so is green patch hunting. If corn feeders are unethical to hunt over then so is a green patch. They should either both be legal or both be illegal because there is no ethical or moral difference. And it sure as hell doesn't require any more skill to do one vs the other.

Yes, both are for lazy hunters, of which I have become in my old age, where I film deer more than I shoot them. A food plot however, has more benefit to the deer and other wildlife, than a pile of corn. Plots are in line with being a wildlife manager. Corn is feeding wildlife junk food. It tastes good, but gives them no nutritional benefit.

You obviously haven't hunted public land in Texas...lol.

After hunting public land in Texas for 8-10 years Texas leased the lumber co. land and then for $35 gave hunters maps to all the land...what I once hunted for free and few people knew about all of a sudden thousands and thousands of people knew about it. I trudged out opening weekend got in my stand and 30 minutes later had 4 rounds fly over my head...climbed down and sat at the base of my stand till about 11:00 at which time I went and packed up and left. There were just too many idiots out there and things haven't changed much. Also in Texas over 90-95% of the land is private so the idea of hunting in what I'd call the traditional way is pretty much impossible unless you own a lot of land.

I've read where people are condemning feeding corn and praising food plots, I will agree that food plots are better for deer, but BOTH are baiting deer. I support whatever is legal in the state/s you choose to hunt.

The point you missed was that the PRIVATE land "hunters" have it significantly better on the average than the public land hunters and yet the PRIVATE land "hunters" do nothing but complain and whine about finding more ways to make it easier for them to kill a deer (because it's never about the "hunt", just the kill) and brag about it around the water cooler. Most, and that does not mean all, but I would say the majority of private land "Hunters" want easy instead of hunting.

Just my humble opinion of what I read and hear.

baiting IN food plots.

I don't disagree but in Texas hunting feeders are simply an acceptable way to "hunt". It's been going on so long that it no longer has the stigma it once had. Also if you are on a "lease" which I am, then it's simply a lot safer to stand hunt rather than walk and stalk. I wish I owned land and enough of it to hunt in the old fashioned way but then again with age comes limits due to health and so you do what you need to do to continue to participate.

As for the state charging hunters to feed corn...crazy!

I really wish this topic would go away. I'm for feeding (baiting) and don't really care what others do. I feed pretty much year round, because that's what I like to do and honestly have more fun with the pics I get than shooting a deer. However, if that's not what someone else wants to do, then so be it. I love to crappie fish and I use a 1/16th jig head and jigs...but some people like to fish with minnows...great for them. Enforce the bag limits, poaching, night hunting and all the other crap...but this baiting thing needs to become a non-issue. I will keeping feeding the animals regardless and keep on fishing with my jigs. And yes...a dang green field is the same thing as a pile of corn, sweet feed, milo...etc. It's how someone articulates the two that differentiates them. May as well outlaw hunting over white oaks, persimmon tress, honeysuckle vines...etc if one thinks that hunting over those is any different than hunting over a pile of corn.

Dude, you need to stop baiting those crappie with a jig like that. You should just use a treble hook and snag those jokers.

Dynamite or an old crank telephone is much more effective

Actually, back to the subject, we all have various skills, abilities and knowledge. We challenge ourselves in various ways. We derive our own satisfaction by hunting in a way that suits us best. One size does not fit all. If sitting on a greenfield is your thing, then sit on a greenfield. Just don't think that everyone should hunt over a greenfield or else they are somehow inferior.

If baiting becomes legal, and you want to bait, then bait. If you don't, then don't. If you want to make arrowheads out of flint and build your own bow and string, go for it. We do lots of things to "improve" our odds like trying to eliminate our scent, or using scents, hunting the wind, using tree stands, camo clothing, hunting food sources, hunting trails, or using optics and rangefinders and so on.

At times, we increase our difficulty. We may hunt with a long bow when we could use a crossbow. We hunt with a compound bow when we could hunt with a muzzleloader or rifle, we may hunt thick woods or hard to reach places rather than open or easily accessible places, we may pass on younger deer and focus on mature deer, and so on.

I really don't see what the big deal is all about. Those that say, we don't need bait to kill a deer, well, you don't need a rifle either. You don't need crossbows or compounds for that matter. You don't need tree stands and you don't need camo. If you are looking for a challenge, then go to the woods naked and come out with a deer.

We each will find what works for us. What satisfies you, won't satisfy everyone. Mature deer didn't become mature by being stupid. It won't take them long to adapt and be just as hard to kill. Just like a greenfield, if you shoot everything that walks out on it, then it won't be long until it is rarely, if ever, visited during the daytime hours.

I just hope that if anything is passed, it is unambiguous.

http://www.aldeer.com/forum/ubbthreads.p...rue#Post1614987

Could that be what was goin on hear?

Eh, I disagree on a few points.

First I have never understood what practical effect the quality of the bait being put out has on the moral or ethical implications of hunting over it. If I use really high quality ammo is it less of a crime to shoot somebody? LOL!


Second, you say patches benefit more animals. Really? How many animals in the woods eat grass vs corn? On the corn side I'd say deer, hogs, turkey, raccoon, rabbit, squirrel, chipmunks, dove and who knows how many species of other birds. And corn may mostly just be a source of carbohydrates but animals do need carbohydrates especially in the colder months.

Third, I'll grant you that some people plant some really nice seed blends that benefit deer with a year round source of food. But it would be a mistake to believe all or even most do this. The vast majority of people in my neck of the woods mostly plant simple stuff like winter wheat and rye grass. About a month after season goes out and it's pretty much done as a food source.

Finally, feeders will sling more than just corn you know. You can mix things like protein pellets in with the corn. And there are all kinds of deer feed products you can use with your feeders. We sling some made by Purina to our deer in the off season. I know, I know most people will just sling corn. But by that same token most people planting green patches aren't planting top shelf Whitetail Institute products either.

I'll let you argue with the biologists about this. All of them I've ever known will take a food plot over a corn pile any day for wildlife management. When I get the time, I'll even pull out the book on it. Corn can help deer survive a bad winter in the northern states. It does not get cold enough here to make it a necessity for survival.

Let me say one more time, I don't care. In the past the argument against bait was the spread of disease in such close contact. A lot of research done up North. It was used as a argument in Alabama in the past against baiting. What happened to that discussion??

I've hunted over corn on the ground a lot of times, it is legal in Florida, and most deer when they get to it will eat a handful or two of the corn and then go on to other food. If it is in a food plot they will nibble some of the grass, and if they are at a trough they will eat a little, but they don't stand there and stuff their stomach with either one. The disease argument doesn't hold water IMHO. If it were true then there wouldn't be a deer in Florida, Texas or the other states that it is legal to feed deer.

[quote=timbercruiser The disease argument doesn't hold water IMHO. If it were true then there wouldn't be a deer in Florida, Texas or the other states that it is legal to feed deer. [/quote]

I agree. But that argument was used in the past. One of the reasons I have remained neutral is I see no harm to the game animal other than a bullet. I won't do it but don't care if my neighbor does.

Dude, you need to stop baiting those crappie with a jig like that. You should just use a treble hook and snag those jokers. [/quote]

Dang, never thought about it like that...guess it's bare trebel hooks from here on out!!...

Dynamite or an old crank telephone is much more effective

Kind of like Jerry Clower's rendition of the old fella and Game Warden out fishing. Fella lights stick of dynamite and hands it to Warden. Warden starts arguing that it's illegal and he's breaking the law. Old fella says, "you gonna sit there and argue...or fish?"

FWIW, I know a person that leased a large ranch in west Texas where they fed corn and one year Anthrax, spread by breathing in the spores while feeding with the nostrils in close contact with the ground, lost 95% of his deer herd.

That proves that no one needs corn then.

So, if this is a known fact, a possibility, then if this passes it would be safe to say the State has a disregard for the health of the herd. We should NEVER knowingly gamble with a resource....especially an unnecessary gamble.

i attended a research meeting in san antonio last year and heard of a few ranches that lost deer to anthrax but the biologists the state sent in found out it was from the introduction of exotics an not corn as far as i know but they were All high fence breeders sellin package hunts bringin in a buncha junk. I dont think there was but like 2 cases tho. Been a some cases of cwd in them kinda places over there to

Anthrax is spread by an infected animal feeding closely to the ground, exhaling the spores. When another animal comes along feeding close to the ground soon after and inhales the spores before they die, the disease is passed on. This is why it is so dangerous to a herd of cattle. Bad stuff to both animals and humans if the spores become air borne. The possibility is enough to not want me to have anything to do with corn, but I guess the same thing could happen in a food plot.

yeh, I always thought about it like this... CORN= mickey D's natural browse and high quality food plots= a fat juicy ribeye. maybe not the best analogy as far as an explanation for protein and mineral content.. but hey its a way everbody can understand and I just really like ribeyes

http://www.buckmanager.com/2016/01/13/corn-toxicity-acidosis-in-white-tailed-deer/

http://www.buckmanager.com/2012/06/19/anthrax-whitetail-deer-disease-uvalde-county-texas/

If disease transmission is why we must keep hunting over bait illegal then why isn't it illegal to just feed deer period? Because you can dump out 30 metric tons of corn a year on your land if you want to. You just can't hunt over it.

Is there some weird biological force that suddenly kicks in when a man with a gun gets near a feeder that causes diseases to suddenly become a threat?

Of course not. The threat of disease is the same with supplemental feeding as it would be with hunting over that same feed. Yet I have never heard anyone even suggest that supplemental feeding be banned. Wonder why? I suspect it's because it's a highly overrated threat and not the real reason most people want to keep hunting over feeders illegal.

Better be careful. Some folks don't like when you introduce logic into the equation. If they can't defeat the logic, they will just resort to calling you an idiot. And whatever you do, don't bring in any facts. That's worse than logic

We definitely have made a club rule NO BAIT for the upcoming season. As expected we are loosing several members. 2300 acres in NE Macon county with openings. $1500. PM me for more details.
I will be posting for members in the Forum after May 1.

My logic on that one is if it so easy to introduce diseases, there wouldn't be a deer in Texas.