Just want to make sure I've got this right

It's my 4th year in the woods and I still have so much to learn. Thanks to everyone who contributes on this site because whatever I have learned has pretty much either been on here or what I have observed first hand in the woods.

So were getting closer to show time and I just want to make sure I'm not believing anything that's not true so correct me where I am wrong please.

With respect to the rut:

1. Fresh rubs can be found anytime from the shedding of velvet through antler drop and really don't mean much except that there is a buck in the area.

2. Scrapes also can also be found long before the commencement of the rut and may be one of a couple of things. Either simply another means of marking territory or a marking of territory and an advertisement to the doe population that he's "getting itchy". Again it really doesn't mean a whole lot until #3.

3. Fresh scrapes with doe poop in them mean something. This is a response to the buck's scrape mail in which she is saying "Hey big boy, I like what you're putting out and I'll give it up just as soon as you find and catch me, but don't worry I won't make you work too hard for it" ?

Right or wrong that's what I have come to believe so if I'm wrong someone please let me know.

Also, I'm still not exactly 100% sure of the timing. When that buck finds that poop and smells her urine in his scrape for the first time, is this the official beginning of the rut or is this the official beginning of the chase and what's the difference between the two?

Do does urinate and/or poop in scrapes before they are actually ready to mate?

If a doe is biologically ready to mate will she still make a buck chase or will she simply present herself to the buck?

How long will the chase last?

Does will all become biologically ready at the same time or within a few days of each other followed by another cycle 28 days later consisting of all does who were not successfully bred the first go round?

From the moment a doe becomes ready to mate, how long will she remain that way?

During the rut, bucks will not let does rest much which is why you should be in the woods all day long or any time you can get there?

Find the food and find the does and leave them alone. The heaving rubbing is usually a couple of weeks before it breaks out. Hunt as far down wind as your comfortable shooting of food and does and sit all day. You will start noticing running tracks in the roads etc. If you have a doe being chased by a small buck by you a lot of times big boy will be lagging behind several minutes.Those bucks will cruise down wind of doe bedding and feeding areas looking for a hot doe and you want to be further down wind than he is.

Your on the right track, the doe will stay in heat for about 2 or 3 days when she is ready to breed. I don't think the reason the bucks chase a doe is because she is holding out, she just isn't in heat. The younger bucks will chase does around because they are eager to breed and the does are not ready or in "heat". But in my honest opinion like wise to the post above, find the does/food and wait on the bucks to show up. I don't hunt a lot of buck sign, it is reassuring that he or they are in the area but I mostly hunt travel corridors, pinch points, saddles, and edges during the rut. The reason you want to hunt a lot during the rut phase is because the bucks are going to be most active during daylight and cruising ridges, saddles, doe feeding and bedding areas and travel corridors checking for a hot doe. Not sure what to tell you about the poop in the scrape except that they poop were they pee.

Don't worry about scraps or rubs. A doe will go into estrus around the new moon. The mature buck will find a doe close to estrus and stay with her until she is ready to breed and he will breed her for one to two days and then look for another doe. A mature buck may only breed 3-4 does a year. About the first quarter there are fewer does for the buck to breed so now you start seeing the mature bucks on their feet most of the day looking for does that haven't been bred. This is the best time to hunt and you will see bucks cruising around a food source or bedding areas. Here is one of the tricks that I have learned about the rut, if you or one of your buddies kill a mature buck get back in that stand as quickly as possible. Mature bucks are never alone in the rut, they are close to hot does and always have other bucks following them.

Never heard or noticed a deer crap in a scrape. That's a new one on me.

Good post.

It was mentioned on here last year when you start seeing a lot of scrapes you're around 30 days out from the peak of the rut. As long as scrapes are being cleaned out the bucks are out searching for and checking the nannies to see if the are coming into estrus. Hunt the does, and you'll probably have a chance at a buck during this time.

Thanks for the responses.

Maybe I should clarify. I'm not really looking to hunt the sign, when it really cranks up there is too much of it to do that anyway. I'm really trying to use the sign as a kind of a clock. Right now I see maybe a small handful of fresh scrapes. At a certain point I'll be covered up in them, they'll be fresh but empty. Then sometime after that I'll begin to see doe $hit in them. I'm really just trying to get the timing down with respect to scrapes. I don't intend to sit on any particular deer sign.

Good info here. Like the old joke about the young bull and the old bull, old bull doesn't chase . He knows when the does are in estrous and he eases in.

Studies have debunked the lock down phase. Some biologist are now saying that 24 hours is the upper limits. On average less. That helps explain why many does have twins fathered by different bucks. The only buck/doe I ever saw breed, was a wham bam thank you ma'am. Buck and doe happened upon each other , from different directions right in front of me. They did the deed and then went their separate ways. Whole show was less than 5 minutes.

I like those kind of meet ups too!

Have sern poop in scapes several times,you can even buy deer poop at most large hunting stores.here,swhat I do right aftter christmas.buy you a couple bottles of code blue doe estrous in the gel thype go to were most of your does are and take the swab sick in scent bottle and rub it on as many small trees as you can .not together but about 15 yards apart, preferably around your green feild.you will have bucks comeing you never new was there.if you dont believe me do this and put a camera watching the trees you rub the scent on.

Really deer chit?

t would be interesting to see what the antler characteristics of those fraternal twins would be like too. We have 2 sets of buck twins around, racks are near identical. If they were fathered by different bucks that would be a big piece of evidence that antler traits come from the does

I got to witness a nice little 8 pt(about 115") last year breed a doe several times one afternoon. That was the first time I had seen it in person. They were bedded together in a brush pile in the middle of a field. I jumped them on the way in. They kinda circled back around, but stayed in the same area all afternoon.

Sure would.

Couple of things. How in the heck do ya'll know if it was a doe or buck that pooped in a scrape? That's all new info to me. Deer of both sexes pee near or in scrapes. The pooping part is new to me. I've seen deer poop near scrapes during random occurrences, but poop is generally not used as a marking indicator in deer, or so I have always thought. They poop after leaving their bed and where they feed. This would be totally new info to me. Can y'all tell this is the first I've ever read that?

Also, the phase of the moon is in no way correlated with the timing of the rut. Does are genetically programmed to come into estrous about the same time period each year. Several studies have completely thrown out the moon phase/rut timing theory. Moon phase may very well have a slight impact on the timing of deer movement and feeding patterns, but not the timing of estrous.

I don't hunt buck sign much. It's been a futile endeavor for the last couple of decades. Only exception is finding clusters of rubs/scrapes in or near very thick cover.

I've seen deer poop in scrapes pretty regularly.

Yep, yep and yep.

Pooping in a scrape???? If you read the adjacent post about "Peeing" , the poop you are seeing in the scrapes was probably put there by one of those peeing/pooping hunters..

I'm glad you chimed in. I was hoping you would. Being the novice, I would not presume to argue with the biologist, however, I have personally observed doe droppings in fresh scrapes. I can't tell you where I got the idea that this was a doe signaling a buck to come find her because I can't remember. Has anyone ever observed a doe visiting a scrape?

As for the difference between doe and buck droppings, and again I don't remember where I got this, it's my understanding that doe pellets are smaller and are found in a loose pile and that buck pellets are larger and will usually be stuck together or clumped. This is generally what I see in the woods but I haven't yet been able to watch a buck crap so I can run up as soon as he's done and examine it. If I'm wrong I need to know it which is the point of this thread.

One more thing, I have often observed what I believe are doe droppings in a fresh scrape but I have yet to see what I believe would be buck droppings within a fresh scrape. Now that doesn't really mean anything but that's just what I have observed.

Clumping or not clumping of " deer pellets" has to do with diet and if they've been bedded for a while. Can't tell sex by poop, far as I know, unless you see it when it's being done.

2 things, #1 i read something from a deer farm owner, and he said big racks are 75% thrown from the doe, not the buck.

#2 and this is in response to 2dogs, When i was about 15, I use to walk around a 5-6 acre block in front of my house, looking for rabbits, then cross the road and stalk hunt squirrels. the small block was shaped like a triangle, with the road running on one side. while walking along the edge next to the field i seen deer tracks going into the block, went around the corner and just started walking the second edge that bordered the field and heard the deer jump, went back to corner and seen doe running across the field. when i continued to walk the second side 3 deer cut out that direction, I shot at them, but they were stretched out, looked, no blood, decided to go back home, so started back tracking from were I had come, got around the corner and seen bigdaddy heading out across the field in the direction the first doe went. He was laid up in this 5 acre block with 4 does.

Yes, does will visit scrapes regularly, just like bucks. Scrapes are usually associated with a signpost limb overhanging the scrape, where they leave scent from their preorbital and forehead glands. Both bucks and does do this.

There is no way to determine buck from doe feces unless you watched it fall. Clumped poop vs. droppings has more to do with the deer's activity level and diet. Active deer poop is not as clumped as deer that have been up and active. You often find clumped poop near a bedding area.

I'm certainly not denying deer pooping in scrapes, but I've not seen it. Maybe my deer are weird.

The whole poop thing is new to me also. I just didn't reply last night cause I thought I have been missing something this whole time lol

I have seen deer droppings in scrapes several times. Never knew if it was buck or doe droppings. I always assumed its just another scent marker. I am surprised so many hunters have never scene this.

I just found a fresh scrape with poop in it on the Bankhead today. Don't know what it means, if anything, but it does happen.

Seen scrapes with poop in them many times, never knew if it was buck or doe. Don't know what it means ,if it's important to the breeding process.

I'm not sure I'm following.

I have seen droppings in scrapes many times as well. Never early season though.

Maybe the poop in a scrape is kind of like negative user feedback, along the lines of 0-1 star Amazon reviews.

"He just jumped on me with no foreplay. Wham. Bam. But no 'thank you mam'."

"Dude, don't bother. I had to chase and chase and chase her. Took forever and I can't believe I passed up those other gals for her. Then she wanted to cuddle and nuzzle afterwards. And now she won't stop calling me asking when I'm going to take her out to dinner next."

This is the thing right here. I haven't paid close enough attention and am trying to do better this year but I think, rightly or wrongly, that there is a relationship in the timing of all of this. First, a handful of scrapes way too early for the rut, which most of seem to go untended once made. Next, an explosion of scrapes, which means we are getting closer and the bucks are beginning to seriously advertise but the does are not ready yet and there are no droppings in the scrapes. Finally, the does become biologically ready and the droppings start showing up in some of the favored scrapes.

This is what I mean when I wonder if a scrape is a fairly accurate clock. None of it means much, with respect to the commencement of the rut until the doe
droppings show up in the scrapes.

This is what I think but I really have no idea whether this is what acctually is.

Maybe I've seen poop in scrapes before but didn't make a mental marker on it because it wasn't something I thought o be significant.

I've seen poop in scrapes but I never thought it was significant. I mean, haven't y'all tried to pee when you had to poop? Something bad is gonna happen if you aren't ready

I think this gentleman has it figured out.

2dogs
my bad that was alot of info to type to just say, I gathered from that situation that bucks will follow and tend a doe, possible bed with her for a couple of days, Now that could be because it was right around Dec 25th which is the beggining of the rut here that event led me to believe they might lay with them a little longer, but cant really say one way or the other.

who's gonna be the first one to poop in a scrape to see if it tricks the bucks into hanging around?

I got ya, he was prolly shadowing them, bedding with them, waiting on them to " come in".

What brand tissue should we use?

The vast majority of what you have said has been disproved by many scientific studies. Not saying that deer movement doesn't have some correlation to the moon, but the rut and a doe going into estrus has literally zilch to do with the moon.

I got some poop in a scrape right behind my house , I think it's like someone said "just the deer straining to piss After walking around all night pissing on everything" ..

I've noticed creatures that don't ever bother to wipe their asses ain't as particular about where they poop as most humans are

My interpretation of the poop in the scrape is that when the deer is peeing in it, it is completely relaxing those muscles of both the urinary system as well as the bowels. I think it's meaningless in terms of territory marking, breeding, etc. Just something that happens along with peeing sometimes.

Exactly. Next time one of y'all are on the john, try to do a number 1 without the 2, or vice versa.

thats what I was thinking, also thought the lone doe, which was the first to cut out ans had the longest distance to travel before cover, was getting close. I know with dogs the female will start "smelling" and cause the male to start acting different a day or two(maybe more)before she's actually ready, in a day or two she will "accept" him. Could very well be different with wild animals though, especially considering most go into season around the same time.

Yep, I've killed and seen quite a few behind 2-4 mature does just a few days before breeding kicks off. Most times after breeding begins to heat up they're behind only one. I love seeing a mature doe train coming my way after Dec. 20 almost always a dandy in tow.

Nope. Whats found in scrapes taste different!!!!!

Maybe there are a few deer out there that think they are funny by chitting in there buddies scrape

you got it bud

I pretty much ignore the small scrapes that are just scattered about,however the scrape the size of a car hood in a major junction I will hunt. These scrapes seem to be in the same place year after year.