Spinoff on "Shoulder Shots" thread - pick your exact spot (see pic)

Alright fella's (and fellowettes!), take a look at the pic below. Provided that all the planets were in alignment and the good Lord gave you the chance to take your time and squeeze off a shot exactly where you wanted to put it, list your shot placement position either by number or by letter (see pic for location), and how you would expect the deer to react to the bullet (DRT, run a hunnert yards, etc.).

C-D with a rifle and DRT.

O with a bow and I probably watch him fall within sight.

E - F & few feet down, clavicle, shoulder, brachial plexus, & both lungs in this area

O-P

100% of deer die without lungs.

Most have been DRT, some make it 20- 40 yards, all have died.

Can't go wrong with O-P

O

N... Possibly M...depending on how he's standing.....DRT....

I like O-P. Expect him to maybe run 30-100 yards spraying out of both sides.

N&O

If he moves again I'm aiming for whatever it takes

O

O - deer die when they can't breath.

Right between then N and O, deers leg flies up, he spins around and flopps over.

Yep and you save alot of meat by not shooting the shoulder.

EFMN
Right in between those. He folds up like a dishrag.

With a bow

O but if he stretches out his front leg w

Dies within 50 yards

N O with rifle.

O P with bow.

Anywhere really in the NOP zone is guaranteed death.

I've had quite a few drop DRT in the N zone. Most in the O P zone run about 25-50 yards.

N O...

Center of OP
WX


THey never go far with that shot, very little lost meat.

wellllll , since it looks like a up hill shot i'd go UV on him. other than that OP

O or H.

THIS^^^^. With bow or gun, no confusion . There's no limbs , sticks , anything in the way, it's the highest percentage shot. Don't try and get cute or make it harder than it has to be.

This is exactly the same place I would shoot. Squeeze that 165 fusion rite under the EF and on top of the MN and get the knives ready.

O

O-p and not going far.

N-O

N or O all day

W,O,or G bang flop

While, in my mind, I would be aiming for the spot between N & O, the projectile, in reality, would pass through the 10. See pic below. As for his reaction: With experience in this matter I can conclusively tell you that he would stare at me while I reload the next round. About the time my shaky hands try to latch the bolt he would run like the wind.

N-P dead after a little run at best

Between N & O and keep chootn till he falls or I can't see him anymore. But he should be DRT or close to it. With my luck, however, he would run a mile, fall off a 50' cliff, break off half of his rack, and I wouldn't find him till the next week.

N with a gun = DRT

Right in the middle of N&O with a bow = 50 to 100 yards depending how full of air his lungs were when the arrow passed through.

f or n. when in a tree though I would aim so my exit hole would come out v or w. Had them fall in there tracks and had them 50 yards too. Usually drt if entry wound is 5 or f

O - P

My auto-pilot response on a broadside is to follow the leg up to the top of the crease in the armpit and send it..

Fast moving BT is going to blow out blow lungs, probably rupture the heart too, and likely give a good CNS shock. DRT or <50 yards.


And I don't lose my shoulder meat

Good visual aid . That's how I taught my son , on broad side shots, come up the back of the leg , 1/3rd up the body and drop the hammer. Bow or gun, no need to make it hard, there's too much other stuff that can go wrong.

I read an article one time that said that "E" was the highest percentage shot to drop them in their tracks.

Like 2Dogs said, why try to change your POI?

I've heard many ppl say they shoot bucks in the shoulder to break them down. Why? That's the toughest point on a buck with thick muscle and bone.

Those ribs are thin and the lungs exposed. It makes for a big, vulnerable target. A buck, or any deer, can go a long way with 1 broken shoulder or leg and muscle damage, but there has never been a deer born that can run without oxygen.

O, gun or bow. With gun I'd expect him to drop and flop, with bow I'd expect him to go less than 100 yards. But more than likely I'm gonna be shook up and shoot about 6" right of S!

N, O, P with gun or bow. I'd probably release on G too with a bow if steady on it from up high. Where I am in relation to deer and angle will decide if I release on G.

Forgot reaction. G or P depending on angle run 50-100yards & dead. N, O dead in tracks or 1-75 yards with gun. Depending on angle you might get a dead in tracks area between O & P. Bow run but dead.

Wow..I guess my limited years hunting experience is why I'm in the minority here.

With the stars aligned...I like 2..3..B-C-D..with my son's 243.

With my 30.06..I would be looking more toward H..P...I.

Great discussion by all. Seems the overall consensus is the following areas:
D-E-F-G
M-N-O-P

Back on 12/29/14 I hit both of these (pic below) around 7-8 and they both dropped in their tracks (7mm-08 @ 225 yards). The buck fell on top of the doe, but crawled 10-12 feet away as shown in pic. The doe went three feet... straight down! and never moved again.

I have to admit, when I'm shooting at a nice buck, I don't remember consciously aiming that small. I pretty much just center it up toward the front half of the body and BANG!!!

However, I have this little routine with a bow where I talk to myself as it's about to happen. I tell myself, "Aim, Aim, Aim, Aim..." I want my pin in the fold of the shoulder, roughly center of body or lower. I have to make myself slow down and consciously AIM at a small spot. Just pokin' a hole through one isn't good enough.

1, except a little higher broadside.

All of the above cause I'd be shaking.

M-gun,O-bow.M with a round that will penetrate is like hitting one with a car.

W-bow
N -rifle

All this "this spot with my bow" and "this spot with my gun" and this spot with this caliber and this spot with my magnum is what I don't understand. I'd get all confused and maim one.

My limited experience, hunted 2 seasons so far ... O-P is where I've always aimed and it works well. I'm still working on my first bow kill but I'll aim at the same place

#1 was DRT boom-flop ... didn't even twitch (30-06, 165g SST)
#2 fell in tracks and passed within 2 mins (30-06, 165g SST)
#3 ran into a thicket and fell 30 yards away (30-06, 165g SST)
#4 fell in tracks and passed within 10 seconds (308, 150g Barnes TTSX)
#5 was a frontal shot into O-P, ran 70 yards(308, 150g Barnes TTSX)
#6 fell in tracks, DRT(308, 150g Barnes TTSX)

RIFLE: N - O region. I feel like I should shoot for the 2/B/M regions with a rifle though to anchor them faster.

#3 for me. The shock breaks the spinal cord in the neck. In 33 years of hunting, I've never had to track one.

I would put one right between his eyes at the angle. Waste no meet and he ain't going anywhere.

S. 1 Mile

I agree.. If we running with dogs and buckshot.. I'm aiming for A, and that will put me around O when it gets there..

i need to dust off my 10ga and ride over there durning dog season . lol

I quit shooting deer behind the shoulder with a rifle when I shot a 120lb doe that ran 200+- yards across a bean field and piled up in a creek. There were pieces of lungs and bone laying in the field where I hit her.

D to E with a gun, broadside, and steady/sure shot.

O otherwise

I vote in-between O & P with a bow or a gun as long as the deer is standing like he is in the pic.

I would aim at the bottom of W-X with bow. If he ducks I'll hit high if not I'll shoot his heart out.
With a gun I aim between O-P.

Same here. Aim point X with bow, but impact location will most likely be O-P.

I've hit high with bow way more times than I've hit low.

O-P broadside, favorite with bow would be quartering away entry point R

Rifle=n-o
bow=o-p
Quartering angles, I just imagine a line straight through the deer that would intersect with o. That said, I don't usually take Quartering toward me shots with a bow. A slight angle, maybe, and adjust shot a bit to miss the shoulder. Should still let the air out.

DEAD!

N O P, anywhere in there is a clean kill with nearly any weapon. DRT is convenient, but these days I prefer a nice blood trail since I have a 4yo son and a 9yo nephew that I am trying to teach to be woodsmen and being a good blood trailer is pretty high up the list.

O with a gun - less than 50 yards usually
Below y with a bow- I learned to stay low and away from the shoulder. If you aim at o you'll over shoot half of them.

Alright folks, I'm resurrecting this thread for the upcoming 2017-2018 season. Let the arguing begin!!!

(Below is from my original post)

Alright fella's (and fellowettes!), take a look at the pic below. Provided that all the planets were in alignment and the good Lord gave you the chance to take your time and squeeze off a shot exactly where you wanted to put it, list your shot placement position either by number or by letter (see pic for location), and how you would expect the deer to react to the bullet (DRT, run a hunnert yards, etc.).

Last deer I killed was dead center of the O entry and exit. Bang Flop, destroyed both lungs and messed the heart up with the .308

Between the lower part of M and N and it locks his shoulders up, while getting his heart/possibly lungs.
O would be second close choice. Saves his shoulder meat and he goes less than 100 yards.

If he's close to an area I don't want him to run in to, such as swamp or very thick cutover, I'm aiming dead for the bottom of the M and break his shoulders down. I've had to retrieve deer from both the described places on the land I hunt and neither is fun. Now if I were bow hunting I'd aim for the bottom right of the O.

I don't care about saving the shoulder meat. A mature buck like that I'd probably donate to the feed the hungry program anyways.

I'd take the F . The high shoulder shot breaks both shoulder. destroys both lungs and shocks the spinal system. They drop right where their standing with this shot placement. I use it as often as possible

If I were bowhunting I'd aim for the "Q"....that shoulder gets folks in trouble with the ol' stick and string.

Unless I was going to mount him, probably not, I would shoot just above the top of the 1. Need a broad side view of the neck.

O-P With gun or bow. No thinking.

This is just my perspective as a dog tracker but I’d rather see someone aim for the “S” than even flirt with that M,N,O area with a bow. There’s a lot of kill zone back behind that shoulder. You could hit it back there where there ain’t even any letters and you’ll recover your deer if you leave it alone. You bury one of these expandable broadheads up that shoulder though and you’ll be that call I get that says... "it looked like a good hit but only got 3-4 inches of penetration and the arra fell out at 75 yards". That deer won't even die, much less be recovered.

People are aiming for the crease which would be a perfect shot. However, that doesn’t give you any room for error if you miss a little to what is our left in the pic. Drop your point of aim back a little though and you’ll help prevent hitting that shoulder plate. You’ll hear a watermelon thump instead of .22 crack…..

W-X with a bow and o-p with a gun. I like to eat the shoulders

Between the O and P, depending on the angle, with either bow or gun. I've never had any issues with shoulder hits with my bow.

I would expect the deer to run about 50 yds with a good blood trail.

My point of view of the situation is a little different than looking at any one individual. I’m looking at percentages based on lots of random hunters. One of the most common calls we get during bow season is the shoulder shot. I can think of several tracks just off the top of my head where it happened and they all pretty much end the same. Those new expandables that everyone’s using with these light weight arras just aren’t made to go through all of that dense bone and muscle. Hit the softer body cavity though and they’ll punch a hell of a hole through the deer. I’m just throwing it out there. You can straight up gut shoot one and cover your arra with green slime and he’ll be laying dead a few hundred yards away if you leave him alone. You fugg up and hit that shoulder though and you might as well just pick you arra up and go home. With the setup that many are using, the shoulder might as well be a brick wall.

With all due respect, I don't give a rip what other folks do. I have a proper setup and it has proven itself over the years.

The OP asked where an individual's shot placement would be. That's where mine would be, depending on the angle.

yep

Yeah, so does everybody. It’s the best laid schemes of mice & men…….

Look, I don’t care where you aim……I’m not telling anyone what they gotta do....I’m just reporting what I see play out over and over…. A lot of folks have all good intentions of slipping one right in behind that shoulder. They have the best bows and modern day broadheads out there…..but then a little buck fever hits them and their grouping suddenly ain’t so tight anymore….they miss by a few inches and bury it up in the shoulder. I’ll kiss Perch’s arse if I don’t track multiple hits like this in another couple months when bow season opens.

Yep I'll take any of them

Apparently, you do care where I aim.

Again, I don't care what you've seen/hear or what a lot of folks do. That doesn't mean anything to me and the experiences that I've had over the years of bowhunting.

Well....I'm certainly not gonna argue with you about it.

So ya want folks try to gut shoot deer so you and Fido can track them? No thanks, I'll stick with the O-P area and y'all stay home.

I've taken 1 deer with the "1" - bang flop. Normal shot is the O. CNC I'll take into consideration your thoughts on aiming with a bow. I'm still fairly new to bowhunting and hadn't considered all that.

Yep that’s exactly what I said. Some days y’all just like to be antagonistic dipchits. That’s ok though, it keeps the thread entertaining.

No, what I implied was to drop your point of aim back several inches off of that crease to allow yourself some margin for error. For the folks who don’t always hit the 10 ring like you pros, this will give them a little wiggle room.

Some days y’all just like to be antagonistic dipchits.

Says the guy that commented about my shot placement. Lol

This was a deer recovered by another tracker last year from the Alabama Blood Trackers Facebook page. When they skinned it out they found a wound where the deer had been stuck in the leg with a broadhead. I’ll have to go back and see if I can find the original story but I’m pretty sure that the broadhead was still in the deer and that they cut it out.

He'd shoot at Q, but tells others to shoot at S.

FN, W/Gun
OP, W/Bow

I'm going to aim at the top of the N in this scenario. Gun Hunter only. Break some bones and destroy top of the heart and portion of the lungs.

For those of you not immediately aware... this is the equivalent to the infamous, yet rarely spoken of, triple-dog-dare!!!

^^^ This. If I hit one in "S", with him standing broadside like in that picture, it's because I screwed up and it dang sure wouldnt be because I was aiming there.

How do you see third party pic.

Listen to this man.

Lots of things can go bad when you start trying to Outdood Channel Trick Shoot them.

Send whatever projectile you got through their lungs and wave as they run off. They ain't going far

P/H with a bow inside of 15 yards er so.
X with a bow further out.
E/F/N with a gun.

With a gun and a solid rest, and a good feeling on the shot, D

Toward bottom left of the N - I just shoot to the middle of the opposite shoulder, never had a problem. No need to overthink it.

Regardless of where you want to aim….one of the biggest mistakes I see made with all experience levels of hunters, especially hunting with a bow, is not giving the deer enough time after the shot before tracking. Most of us just don’t fully appreciate how long a deer can live after a marginal shot and how easily a few inches can cause the shot to be marginal. Here’s a good example of how only a few inches can make a difference. This deer was shot on a pretty steep angle down at the deer. The hunter thought he had made a good hit and proceeded to track it after 30-45 minutes. What he didn’t realize was that the arra had exited really low on the other side and he had only clipped the vitals. He jumped the deer in a cutover before backing out and calling us. We found the deer 800 yards from the hit site....that's nearly 1/2 mile. It looked like it had just collapsed in the middle of the trail.

hell he wouldnt come anyway Anthony

You’re absolutely right. All good trackers have “chit list”…..and you’re officially on mine now. I wouldn’t worry too much about though…..it’s not like you’re gonna be making any bad shots or anything.

Dont worry, everyone uses idaho mike anyway.

lol as opposed to what? Jumping up off your ass and coming to a track?

You’re certainly not gonna help yourself get off the chit list using that kind of tone.......

Go ahead and pencil me on that list if you haven't already. I'm an antagonistic dipchit , I can't associate with common dipchits.

take a number, im spread thin on chitlists right now

Hmmmm…..I tell you what then..... I’ll give a chance right here and now to get back off the chit list and we’ll forget about this whole unfortunate episode. Apologize to the forum for interrupting the thread and tell the real story of what happened……. followed by the statement “CnC is my daddy.”…..

Do that... and your hasty, not well thought out remarks, will be forgotten.

oh i didnt derail chit, you did starting crap with N2TRKYS. And youre mistaken again, i wasnt wanting off the chitlist, i could care less actually. But since you want an apology try this: blow it out your ass.

Will that work? Id hate to see a snowflake like you tear up, its a shame the world is so rough.

Bow



Gun

Well, somebody tell us the real story???

I told him I wouldn’t ever say anything about it…..but since he’s gonna be this……

welllllllll , depending on where i'm setting i might shot at any of them .

Oh please dont tell CNC, I beg you!

Don't keep us in suspense, let's hear the story. This thread is already way off the rails so it can't get any lower.

Ok, you asked for it…….

Here’s how it went down the way I recall it. He was pretty desperate for someone to come out and find his deer. He had called around on Christmas Eve during a rain storm and nobody else would even take his call. I talked to him for a while about what had happened and told him I was visiting with family and couldn’t come out. At the time, Otis was just a puppy anyways and it was raining so hard outside that roads were being shut down in the area due to being washed out. I don’t know if he could have even worked the track at the time anyways. Y’all may remember that up in north Alabama a couple years ago.

Well, when I told him I couldn’t come out….that’s when it really turned awkward. It got kinda quiet on the other end for a few moments and then suddenly I heard him crying!.. ..Not just a little bit either, but full fledged boo-hoo crying. I tried to console him the best I could, but honestly I didn’t know what to do….I’d never had someone start crying on me like that. That’s when he proceeded to tell me quote “Please come out and track my deer for me!!....I’ll even let you hunt my back forty if you do!”……whatever that means… ….Anyways, to make a long story short, he finally calmed down and I suppose began to feel a little embarrassed about because he asked me to please never tell you guys about it. I said I wouldn’t tell….and I wouldn’t have either if he hadn’t called me out like this! Like Trump says, when you get hit, you gotta hit back.

Hevi……All you gotta do is tell everyone that “CNC is my daddy!” and this can all be over…….I can still tell them what you also told me about the deer or we can just let that part of the story go. The ball is in your court…………

Wow thats quite an imagination you have there! Well kudos to ya for making that up! Right on par with the sissy snowflake clinton supporters, making crap up in your head pretending that its the truth!


You need a job, itll help keep you busy!


Thanks for the laughs buddy, i needed it the last couple of days! You know its all in good fun!

With a gun, I usually aim between N-O.

With a bow, I usually aim a little lower, somewhere around X. I like to aim lower with a bow due to them dropping (crouching) to run.

Just WOW!!! That's some funny chit right there. Crying over a deer. LOL!

Ohhhh, hell no!!!.....Don’t start trying to apologize to me now and play it off like it’s all fun and games when the truth starts coming out.

I remember that!...CNC was out here tracking for us a few days later and told me about some hunter he had start crying on him over the phone. He didn’t tell me it was another Aldeer member though!!

Damn. What was the thread question again?

Wow. The crying is well..... I'll pass on that. I'm just totally amazed that Shaw shoots deer in exactly the same place that I do with both bow and gun. I thought he would've hit a little bit lower given that he is supposedly so vertically challenged.

Yep, that was him I was talking about…….Ok, I’ll admit he didn’t say I could hunt the back forty…that was just playing it up a little….BUT, he was damn sure crying and beggin…..

”But CNC….nobody else will even answer the phone!!! (boo-hoo-hoo-hoo) Please come track my deer for me CNC!!!! ....Please!!!! "

CNC and Hevi, yall forget your midol again? We'll have care packages on the way shortly, midol, tampax SUPERS, and kleenex. Carry on...

This thread has delivered

Yep, I was needing a break from staring at spreadsheets all morning!

What about it Hevi??? You want to fold now or keep going down this rabbit hole?? #neighborscornpile

Just when you think you've found a "discrete tracker"...

Otis will not tell!

I’d just like to point out for the record that it WAS all “discreet” until he started lobbing grenades unprovoked. A mo-fo should know better than to throw the folks under the bus who know where all the bodies are buried. He didn’t give me any choice in that matter.

You did what you had to do. He was acting like the fat kid with the bad haircut in North Korea and you had to go Trump on his arse.

Dont be butthurt cause i told the truth, something that eludes you. You got mad at a little ribbing cause you know that it was the truth. You didnt come cause you know your little weiner dog wouldnt be able to find the buck.

You get mad and make a fool out of yourself because everyone calls idaho mike like i said. Just like on the idaho mike thread. You insulted and ran that man off just out of pure jealously.

You started chit on this thread cause N2TRYS nor 2dogs cared for your opinion. Know why? Because they know your full of chit. And the worst parts is your so full of it that you let that mouth run off clients. But then you get all butthurt when people call other trackers. You see how its a vicious cycle?

But hey, whatever. Its your livelihood your ruining, i could care less. So take your liberal snowflake ass back to the throw and mow thread and shut the hell up.

Let us hear more about the neighbor's corn pile pleeeeezzze....

Well this has gotten derailed nicely...

Good job CR!

Damn right! ....#ruthless

Oh it’s coming don't worry….full of pride this one is ….I’m gonna give him one more chance to “bend the knee” though before we go there. What about Hevi??…..wanna keep doubling down???



BTW…..I’d aim at the bottom of the “Q”

(Couldn't care less)

THANK YOU

Idaho Mike is the only tracker on this site I would ever invite onto my PRIVATE property. I think this thread (and many before it) proves exactly why that is the case. Discretion and trustworthiness is even more important than the skill of the dog when it comes to the tracking business.

And I don't mean to disparage any other trackers on the site that I am not aware of. CNC and Idaho Mike are the only posters who track that I have seen on here.

I haven't had he pleasure of meeting Idaho mike, but CNC and Harold will be call number 1 I make if the situation arises this season. Good guy and good dog.

I think some people are taking the internetz too seriously

Don't smurf ur shot and you will never need either.....

Also like to see pics of what a little buck worth crying over looks like.

Wow, this thread has gotten personal. I have never met Hevi in person but have talked turkey with him a pretty good bit, even have a standing invitation to come up to north Bama and turkey hunt with him. He is a good feller.
Same goes for CNC. He is a good guy with a lot of knowledge that could sometimes use a little more "tact" when dealing with the Aldeer brethren
I LOVE the tracking thread that CNC does during deer season.

I guess I'm trying to say that both of y'all are liked and respected members and I hope you two will just bury this hatchet and be done with this.

Amen and amen.

(Didn't say for myself)

There is another guy that tracks and posts every now and then plus Tom and Jackie Munoz from Madison Co. have posted some track stories in the past. Their dog died last year and they didn't get to track last season.

I've been on a couple with Tom and Jackie, first class, Meg their little wirehaired wiener was a little tracking machine in these mountains. I've been with Idaho Mike and Lucy on one on my place . They found my wife's little cousin's buck very quickly. Heck of a team right there, a real pair of energizer bunnies.

I've met the Munoz's myself. Good people.

Yep, good folks. It doesn't get too rough for Jackie either. I've seen her bail off the side of the mountain through a 8-10 YO hardwood clear cut.

Ammon McKinney and Woodrow is another good tracking team up y’alls way. Tom and Jackie have two new dogs that should be getting good by this coming fall. There’s actually a lot of new trackers out there now around the state. If you hadn’t joined the Alabama Blood Trailing Network facebook page then I’d encourage you to do so. Just about all of the trackers from around the state are on there. It’s a great resource to have available when you suddenly find yourself in need of dog.

I guess since the thread is dwindling now I’ll let the cat out of the bag for you guys who didn’t figure it out…….Just let this be a lesson to anyone who wants to be a funnyman at my expense. The dog man know all ya secrets!

I met Art Powers last year, and he's good people..

Paul Couget is another one for anyone over in Greene Co and surrounding area. He’s from LA but pretty much lives up here at his hunting camp during hunting season. It’s worth the price of admission just to listen to him talk and carry on. He’s a hoot…..He’s also got some good catahoulas and takes tracking very seriously. His dogs are well trained and worked regularly.

The other couple Aldeer members that are the most active trackers are Dano and trackncur………Dano tracks over in west alabama in the same general area as Paul and trackncur tracks in extreme southeast Al around Dothan. Both are great guys and top notch trackers with outstanding dogs.

Certainly don’t put all of your eggs into one basket and think that any one tracker is gonna be able to come out whenever you need them. There’s starting to be lots of good trackers around and you’ll definitely want to have a couple people you can call on if need be. The thing about blood tracking is that tracks come in huge waves associated with good conditions for deer movement and weekends……and when both of those conditions line up….then there just ain’t enough of us to go around. During the peak of the rut its almost nonstop. That’s what cracks me up about the threats a couple folks have made in the past….running me down and saying they would never call….yada,yada……whatever…..There’s only a handful of folks around the state with trained dogs that can get the job done….and if it’s during one of these prime periods for calls….you’ll be very fortunate if they’re not already booked solid. It’s just a matter of WAYYYY more demand than supply. Go ahead now and get a few numbers in your phone so you'll be prepared when the time comes.

I meant to post this pic earlier in the thread before Hevi got us side tracked……

Look at this pic below showing the internal organs of a deer and you’ll get a better idea of why I’m recommending to drop your point of aim back a few inches from the crease with a bow. Look at how much lung is located back behind the shoulder. Put your finger on the dead center of that lung and then match it up with our number/letter chart we’re using. Also notice how far back you can hit and still catch liver…..which is a very deadly hit too if given a little time. You really have to get into the back 1/3 of the watermelon to start getting into gut….and again, even that is a very recoverable deer. My point I was trying to make is that you have a lot of room for a kill hit to be flirting with the edge of the shoulder…..and flirting with hitting that brick wall.