Best Low Light Scope

What is your opinion on the best low light scope available? Obv a legal deer hunting scope... I have heard nothing is better than Swarovski. Curious what your opinions are on it.

Thanks!

Schmidt and Bender.

Zeiss Diavari Victory T* 3-12X56 is the best I’ve owned.

The three scope brands that have been mentioned are the top three. Then come Kahles, Meopta,Minox. Etc.

All of the high end euro scopes with a 30mm tube will have more light gathering capabilities that the human eye can use.

Swarovski
Zeiss
Schmidt & Bender

You better watch this crowd. We’re bad for your pocket book and good at spending other folks money. The 56mm Diavari Shaw listed and the S&B 8x56 are the 2 brightest-clearest scopes I’ve ever looked thru at last light.

If you want something that doesn’t require a second mortgage, I highly recommend the Leupold VXR line.

Now that we got the millionaire optics out of the way.
The best scope, for less than three months of mortgage payments, is the Meopta.

If you want the best, you'll pay for it. A lot of European hunting is legal at night, therefore the Europeans design scopes for that type of hunting. You will not get the low light performance of a European scope in a Leupold...period.

To get European performance in an American scope, you'll have to get in the class of Nightforce, US Optics, etc...and you'll pay Euro prices for them.

But, since you said legal, and by "legal" I assume you mean 30 minutes after sunset the hunt is over, then a Leupold will get you there.

If you're talking legal light (30 mins before and after) then any decent scope will do. If you're talking "best" low light scope, then the above Europeans have it nailed.

The Swarovski’s are good and if you are patient and shop around you can usually find them on sale or slightly used. I have one on my main hunting rifle and always been able to see way past legal light.

Best one I own or have used is a Swarovski fixed PF8x56

I'd guess an older, high end Euro , 30mm in a low power range. Brand prolly wouldn't matter that much.

I have a Burris euro diamond 3x12x56, I bought for less than 400$ that is very impressive

TickaTicka has/had a Swarovski Z5 for sale last week.

The European scopes are the ticket. Keep in mind there is a difference in low light performance in the different lines offered by each manufacturer. A Swarovski Z3 is a good scope and will get you past legal light, but it's not as good as the outstanding Z6 line, which has been surpassed by the Z8 line of scopes introduced a couple years ago.

As usual, you have to write BIG checks for a few minutes more of available light. Only you can decide how much those few minutes are worth.

I agree that Meopta and/or Minox are very good for the money as long as they have the 30mm tube. The tube size is more Important that the objective size.

As an example; a scope with a 30mm tube with a 42mm objective brings in more light than a 1" tube with a 56mm objective.

Nightforce,Zeiss,Swarovski,kahles,

Is this verified somewhere? All the info I have seen, if I’m remembering correctly, said tube size was less relevant if not irrelevant.

Tube size is NOT a factor in how much light is transmitted to the eye. It is due to the 30 mm scopes having higher quality glass and coatings than 1" tubes.

I've seen lots of "experts" claim that tube size don't matter, but my real world experience says it does.
The 30mm tube is always better in low light.
Besides, my wife told me years ago that tube size absolutely matters. Bigger is better.

Tube size has no effect. The "tube" that contains the lenses is not related in size to the tube size. The tube that carries the internal lenses has to be able to move up and down at an angle for you to zero the rifle and dial if needed, hence that is never the size of the OD of the body. Bigger tubes allow more erector travel.

Straight from Swarovski:

https://www.swarovskioptik.com/hunting/blog/RS_tube_size_matters_but_not_much

That said, Schmidt & Bender Polar T96 is the brightest to most eyes last I researched. May be something newer that is better.

Outback, I guess I stand corrected by the experts.

I just know from my actual first hand experience in all sorts of hunting situations globally that a 30mm tube scope lets you see more at dark than a 1” tube scope from nearly ever manufacture known to mankind.

I have a Swarovski that's pretty dang good I can't imagine anything being a whole lot better unless you go to night vision or thermal

Exactly. That's my conclusion as well. But what do we know, right?

Please explain. I am curious.

Kinda hard to explain what your eye sees at dark.

The best way to learn this is to actually do it.

Get a 30mm tube scope and a 1” tube scope and go sit in a field with no artificial light and look through both scopes at dark.

I’ve done this several times over the years with most of the optics I own. Especially if I’m thinking of swapping some around at the end of the season. I’ll set up somewhere away from town and any traffic in a place I can see various “targets” from 50-maybe 250 yards. I put everything either on a bench or the ground on bipods and starting with the last 15minutes of light switch from rifle to rifle and record when I can no longer see adequately out of each. I usually do 3-4 at a time like that.

I've never owned any of the extremely high $ scopes, however I currently own a Meopta R2 56mm scope. It's pretty dang bright, and I'm not sure how much better it's going to get (if any) by spending $1000 more. I can use it past legal light. With any of these scopes, low light hunting becomes 1) a distance game, and 2) a 'yeah I can identify a deer body but what is it?" game. Against the contrast of a green field, I could probably see to shoot a deer's body no telling how late, maybe even into the night … especially at 50 yards away. Now, if someone told me I had to identify a shooter's rack up against brush in the wood line, in the shadows, 200 yards away at end of shooting light, I can't claim the R2 scope (or any scope) would do that.

At risk of angering BGH and Outback, I don't see how the tube diameter plays into light transmission physics. To make the point either way you would have to have the same objective, same coating system, same # of glass elements, and same magnification range, from the same manufacturer, in the same product series to compare two different tube diameters. I understand they are saying that in the real world manufacturers tend to use higher end glass/coatings/optical design/etc in "30mm euro optics" type scopes, and that on average real world is that 30mm scope tend to be your low light products.

Good luck with your scope hunt. I guess if you have the money just buy the highest end Zeiss/Swarovski/S&B and be done with it. If you feel like saving some $$ buy a Meopta R2 and go compare against one of your buddy's high end models. If you do that please report back the results, I would be interested

To do a fair comparison you'd have to have the exact same glass and the exact same coatings in a 1" and 30mm tube scope. I don't know of any scopes like that but I saw some say the Meopta Optika with the 30mm tube was the same glass as the Meopta Meopro 1" scope so , if that's the case, maybe someone could do an actual side by side comparison.

[quote=riflenut]If you're talking I agree, my Zeiss works tremendously past legal time. It’s like duck hunting, I have to look at sundown time, do the easy math for 30 before or after and work from that. If I’m in some deep cover, 30 min. is plenty, but in a field I could use more time. I have to pack it in while still seeing deer with the scope and/or Steiners.

If you’re seeing better with a 30mm scope than a 1” in low light, id wager there’s other things going on with glass quality, coatings, or objective....than just another 4mm of metal tube diameter. The interior lenses are usually the same size between the two. Doesn’t take much scope to see past legal, but there’s off-brands like Trijicon (and others) that’ll blow the most expensive swaro (or Zeiss or S&b) out of the water for a ‘low light’ scope. Sure, they eat up batteries, but it’s not that much more expensive.

I had a Trijocon Accupoint which is the same scope as the Accupower except it uses tritium for illumination instead of battery powered. It was fine and good for the money but isn't in the same ballpark as the high end euro scopes in low light. It wasn't even as good as the Meopta Meostar. It compared to a Zeiss Conquest as about equal in low light , which is plenty good, but the illumination put the Trijicon over the top.

Schmidt Bender T96. Nothing beats it.

No question about it gents- The tasco world class

If youre looking for a better scope to get you past legal shooting light, why not just get thermal imaging? Both are illegal. If youve set your mind on breaking the law in order to kill that buck youre after, I think the thermal imaging would be the ticket. Im thinking about getting one to shoot coons and such you know.

I was sitting in the stand the other evening watching a hardwood bottom next to some thick pines. I could see clearly in the open hardwoods at last light but barely make out anything in the pines. That's where better glass separates itself.

I was driving 80 mph on I65 yesterday.

Priced a thermal scope lately?

I think you entirely missed the drift. Trijicon THERMAL OPTICS doh

I have accupoints and other ‘day’ scopes.

There are decent hunting thermal scopes for similar $ as the swaros folks are bringing up here.

Personally, I’d rather fling that sort of $ at something made for a task, than something that just tries to get in the door. Then again, I’m not trying to do anything ‘illegal’ with either type of scope.

10-4. That makes sense.

Why were you driving so slow?

That's as fast as his feet could pedal 🤣

I have a few of the high end 30mm scopes you have mentioned. My favorite is an old model Kahles straight 8. I will say I hunted with a Leupold VX6 recently and I think it might be better than my Swarovski / Kahles. Need to do a side by side comparison. That being said we have one of these in the safe at the camp and it blows away anything I have ever used. Absolute game changer. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/987120637?pid=120637

The high end 30mm scopes have larger internal lens systems and seem to "fill up the scope" with an image faster. Or at least my Zeiss VM/V does. Technically no scope "gathers" light.

I have a S&B and a Zeiss, granted they’re both pushing 20 years old, but there is no comparison between them. Zeiss is and has always been brighter and clearer, in my opinion.

I've got 2 of each...two Zeiss Diavari's, and two S&B...one Klassik and one Zenith, and I've always felt the exact opposite. My S&B's seem brighter to me.

My old vari-xiii gets me about 15-30 minutes past legal. I figure that I'll have to spend about 2k to upgrade and get a few more minutes or still be able to see what my binos are seeing

Not true. Get you a Fenix UC35 with barrel adapter.
That sucker with light up downrange for 200 yards, clear as day.

Is there not some objective way of measuring light transmission. Everyone has an opinion on which scopes are brightest. It seems like something you should be able to measure.

M48,

You are no risk of angering me I assure you. I just know what my eyes tell me.

That's because clarity,color rendition and definition all play a part and different people perceive different combinations of qualities as superior. Higher end scopes today of the basic price range will have similar quality but one may place more importance in one certain area. That same holds true for size,weight,reticles,and turret choices. Just always remember that everything is a trade off in some area if only in price,so the main thing is to know exactly what you want before buying. Basically just like anything you buy,"BEST" depends on the reviewer,as much as the product being reviewed.

Admittedly, my color blindness could be a factor in my perception.
I have difficulty with reds, blues and greens. They all look brown or black to me.
I guess it's possible the 30mm tube could be just a little easier for my eyes.
On the bright side, I can spot deer, snakes and other illusive critters when normal folks can't see them.
On the downside, I can't find a bloodtrail to save my life.

I think alot of this conversation depends on background, which direction you are facing and several other factors that might make one spot naturally brighter than another. One guy elevated facing west hunting a lime green foodplot says he can see great through scope x 30min past legal shooting light. Another guy hunting off the ground looking to the east at a background of brown pine logs cant see much past legal light. All that should be considered. Were hunting all over the state and even country in all kinds of lighting conditions. If legal shooting light ends at 5:45, imagine how different that is on the far west side of the state compared to the far east side, it would be much brighter on the west side. I figure if we are going to start naming which scope is #1, the playing field should be level, shouldnt it. Alot to consider other than the scope here in these comparisons.

I don't know of any $400+ scope that I can't shoot a deer with anywhere in Alabama during legal hours. The exception might be at ranges over about 150 yards,but I rarely shoot that far or even hunt where it is possible. On the other hand some of S&B's top of the line illuminated scopes up there about $3000+ will enable you to shoot a coyote at 300 yards at midnight.

Legal shooting light is different as you move across the state. It's not a static time statewide, as sunset in Dothan today (5:16pm) isn't the same as sunset in Mobile (5:28pm).

...only with an external light source, depending on conditions. Lots of stuff will enable you see/shoot shapes/dark stuff at range at midnight, under a bright moon....including eyeballs. Nothing but NV/Thermals/lights will allow you to positively ID animals AND what’s behind them. It’s where $3-$4k is better spent on technology than a European name. Shooting deer in legal light, (I agree)....no extra $ spent or huge lenses needed.

Legal shooting light is different as you move across the state. It's not a static time statewide, as sunset in Dothan today (5:16pm) isn't the same as sunset in Mobile (5:28pm).
[/quote]
Yeah my thinking was a little off there I guess

Been out of town, so I'm a little late.

For me, tops are the Schmidt-Bender, Swarovski, and any Zeiss with the T* coatings. It does seem to me that some of the older Habicht Swarovski units seem brighter than some of the newer scopes.

I have a Leupold VX6HD that is very close, just have not been able to compare side by side yet.

I haven’t actually tried this...but I believe that a man could get a few more minutes by using one of these eye shields to block external light from the sky.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32593183652.html

The way I see it the only light I care about it coming through my scope. Other light is just making my pupils smaller and decreasing my ability to see details through my scope.

Has anybody ever used one? Maybe bamaeyedoc could chime in validate or crush my theory. I have shield the sky with my hand and feel like it really helps.

Use this to mount your Fenix and any scope becomes a low light champion.

I lost my Fenix flashlight earlier this season. Best flashlight out there.

Few years back I put a $50 3x9x50 Simmons on a H&R 35 whelen . Left it on for 3 years , shot it maybe 30 times , killed 14 deer

Really ain't nothing I can say bad about the scope . It got the job done .

Too many scope snobs on here. A lot of good suggestions mentioned above. My suggestion is a GPO (German Precision Optics) scope. They're made in both 1" & 30mm tubes. I've always thought the 30mm drew in more light. That was based on my observations not printed data from the scope maker. I also think that the better scopes have better glass coatings. I might be saying that wrong, but oh well. I have a GPO 2.5-15x50mm with Lighted #4 reticle, red dot. I've hunted with friends rifles that has Zeiss, Swaros and Kahles on them and the GPO was just as clear & bright the high end european scopes. The price was a lot less than those scopes too. It comes down to what you're comfortable spending on a scope to meet your needs. I have an opinion just like everyone else, but when it's all said and done, only what matters to you is the decision you'll make. Like I said, a lot of good scopes have been mentioned. Do your own research and make the decision you feel most comfortable with.

This is what you need.

http://www.aldeer.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3031804#Post3031804

Absolutely.

Heck of a deal on this one:

http://www.aldeer.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3031778#Post3031778

Damn, really good deal on the Swaro. Just ordered the same scope with a plex reticle last week. Paid $450 more than this one.

Yep. I'm hoping someone buys it real soon or I'm not gonna be able to help myself. That #8 reticle seems like it would be about as good as a #4.

Ive heard any scope will do if you have a good enough spotlight😁

Pawn shops occasionally have great deals on high end scopes. With the great warranty on the better ones, I'm just not worried about buying one used.

I bought a Zeiss (marked Made in West Germany) a few years back. Had a problem with the windage turret. Zeiss USA sent me a shipping label, offered a loaner scope, and covered the postage to ship it back to the factory in Germany. They replaced the mechanicals, all the seals, re-purged with nitrogen, and delivered it back to me. At no cost.

I once thought the exact same thing. Turns out that is not the case. Tube size has nothing to do with light gathering. It's all in the glass. Tube size allows for more elevation.
And before people begin to RIP me and not know.....please google it and read optics planets article on the subject. Or anybodies article on the subject really. I guess it was just an old wives tale. Dunno!!