Not how many but what percent?

I guess this is a quality turkey management question but what percent of gobblers would you want to take off a place in any given season? I've got family land that I don't want to take too many birds off of but still want to be able to hunt them.

Half of them.

All of them or 100% if you prefer.

If they gobble and have at least an 8 inch beard, I will do my best to eliminate their existence. See the post that YEKRUT posted about killing 35 birds off a 1200 acre tract year after year. That is like the Little Bighorn of turkey hunting but evidently it had minimal to no effect on the population over time.

If the habitat is there, they will return and I have no problem making room for the new residents. And then killing them too.

Dr. B

I don't know but it is an interesting question. A biologist at Mississippi State told me years ago that if you did not shoot jakes that you couldn't kill enough mature gobblers to hurt a place. He said turkeys will find a way to die on their own. That's why some years you seem to have plenty of them and some years you don't seem to have any, even though it seems nothing has changed with the habitat. Just passing on what he said whether he is right or not I don't know... but on our place some yrs are better than others

I personally like to leave some long beards for seed... but not in all cases. Have had turkey leases in the past when we left some for seed and then had the lease yanked out from under us after the season ended.

Depending on the size of the property, I may not take but one or two birds. There may be more birds there, but I won't kill them.

Kill all you can. I don't think a hunter can harm a population. Some years you will have lots some not so much.

I honestly believe their are 2 to 3 times as many birds as you hear. They don't all gobble every day and there are always birds you don't know about as well as those birds that are moving to look for hens.

Plus those birds that are moving across miles that gobbler talks about.

Totally agree with n2deer

my brother and a couple three friends killed every gobbling bird on a fairly small(200acre) tract over the course of the whole season. I tried to convince em that they were killing birds from ALL the adjoining property and it would affect next years hunting. To no avail, they never let up.

Next year they killed ONE bird, saw very little gobbler sign. Next year no gobblers killed by them. They gave the place up.

We hunters aren't the only predators out there killing birds, add a bad hatch and over killing will come back to haunt ya......

If it's not prime property you can kill a place out. IMO

Interesting question but I tend to side with those that believe you can't kill too many. Certain properties may not have this luxury. My hunting club has 500 acres on one side of the highway and 2500 on the other side. The best turkey hunting seems to be on the 500 acre tract. I wouldn't hesitate to kill most of the gobblers I hear on that tract because it is surrounded by thousands of acres of equally good turkey habitat. More birds will find it before next season rolls around. Like eyedoc said, by killing more this year, you are making room for more new ones to move in. Turkeys have a much larger home range than deer do.

Having said that, the scenario that BhamFred described could be true too. If you have a 200 acre habitat surrounded by pastures that stay bushhogged and there is a shortage of quality nesting and poult rearing habitat, you could hurt yourself. If you are surrounded by good habitat (roosting trees, thick cover for raising poults, open areas for finding insects) then you likely can't hurt the population. It will replenish itself every 2 years anyhow.

I have about 900 acres of of pretty good turkey habitat. Surrounded by mostly timber company land. On a conservative guess Id say we have maybe 10 mature gobblers and maybe 10 jakes, maybe up to double that. In the fall I've seen large flocks up to 30 hens and 5 gobs while deer hunting.

I wish I knew the answer to that... We have killed 40 longbeards the past three years...13 in '11...13 in '12 and 14 in '13... We have killed 16 this year...Which is 56 over four years...Thats a lot of turkeys... Over these past few years...every October and November we continue to see 10..12..15 longbeards in groups... I have been wondering if we have been hurting the population.... But it doesn't seem so... I hope it continues to stay this good... But as long the numbers continue to show up in the fall...I see no need to cut back on the killers...

sounds like you have an awesome place

It's mediocre at best... I have had better...

Y'all need anymore members?

You about 6 months to short... We took one and losing one....He ain't being replaced... We have too many killers... Two limits already...and probably one more to come...

If you have a property that the birds favor and has the correct habitat you can kill as many as you want. As much hell as gobbler catches here, I do believe birds, especially gobblers, range and rotate more than most people think.

On a place that I hunt there is a pond with a good sized island that has huge pines on it. It is almost a guarantee that there will be turkeys roosted there. I've hunted this place for about 5 years and probably killed 15 birds in the area. Every time you kill a bird there he is replaced within a day or two. Even on a day to day basis there may be 1 gobbler, 2 gobblers, or 10 jakes there but there will be a breeding turkey there with hens. On a place like this, I think it is one of the preferred roosting areas and I think there will be gobblers there until something ruins that habitat.

I do think that you could kill off birds on less desirable property but even that will only last for a short period of time as long as we can enjoy healthy turkey populations

X2

I think we are going to drop one this coming year...Too many killers... Guess I will have to start from the bottum up...

Somebody bout to get cut up in here!

Based on what I know, it is very hard to kill off all the mature gobblers on an area. As we all know, pressured birds get hard to kill or tend to move off where there is little or no pressure. However, if you want to hear a lot of turkeys gobbling next year, you better not kill all of the adult birds. If you do you will have to rely on "this" years jakes to be next years gobblers and your amount of gobbling will be DIRECTLY related to each years hatch. Some years great and some years non-existant. I try to kill one of each place I can hunt so I don't have to worry about it.

I'll throw this out there... I dont think you can kill out your birds. I do think the state should go back to a 3 bird limit. I mean no man needs more than 3 realistically.

That being said...

I've been privileged to hunt the same piece of property for 10 years. In that time frame I have not seen a year that we did not kill at least 45 gobblers.
Last year we took 75 gobblers off of this property, and this year has been as good as always.

Hell no.... My season would be over in a week..two at most... They are too fun to hunt...Three ain't enough...Especially if you have the land to carry it...And I do....

Some needs are different then others.

Well it's just all in how you think of turkey hunting. Myself, I can get just as much fun out of em without pulling the trigger. Dont get me wrong, as long as the limit is 5, my goal is 5, but I wouldnt have an issue with 3.

You will do well traveling out west at some point.

I know ya'll are not going to tell where your hunting. So, I will ask how many acres are ya'll killing all these birds on?

Jackson county is where most of them are at.

That is my next destination.... Not like it would be any different from here... somewhat....

1800 acres...With a background of 27,000... and 3200 of it with little to no access... which we back up to...

You usually have sanity and value in your posts... The above is the worst, narsisitic, self centered, rediculous, reasoning for changing a limit. There is NO biological reasoning to your concept, only "well, I would be happy with and don't need more than 3 so I don't think anyone else needs more than 3 either." In all honesty, no one cares what you would be happy with, but what scares me is the other folks that think it might be a good idea to set limits on critters based on what they think would be "fair" for us all (I.e. The legislature). I had thi same discussion with our previous director when the limit was changed from 6 to 5 with NO biological data nor reasoning!! My .02

DuckDown if you don't think it's possible to kill them out why would you be in favor of reducing the limit?
And yes, realistically I need more than 3.

Lol, I love this place

If I've seen 10 different jakes and I kill 10 birds (2 or older) then I would have no worries. All about good hatches and good habitat. Same scenario, Kill 10 birds and have a bad hatch and you might be struggling for the next year or two. Have two or three bad hatches and your done for a while. No way I would ever want to kill 100% of the adult (2 year old and older population). In theory you would start the next season with only 2 year old birds. Kill 100% of those and repeat year after year and you'd never have any 3+ year old beards. Obviously not going to ever happen like that but we personally have a limit on our farm with the objective of leaving at least half of the gobblers. We kill a lot of older birds doing this. Actually kill 3 to 4 older birds to every one 2 year old killed. Also gives us a few birds to hunt if we were to have a year or two of bad hatches.

I just killed #3 and would hate to think I was done. I'd be proud to kill 2 or 3 a season, or even 1 some seasons, but I always shoot for 5.

What's the biological reason for having a Fall season?

The question should be is there a reason NOT to have a fall season. Most of the southeast was fall hunting for most everything since the fall is "harvest time" and when there is usually an abundance of critters. FOlks decided they liked chasing gobbling birds and things changed, but killing fall turkeys is usually biologically sound, just like killing all species is biologically sound in the fall when there is an abundance of young of the year. This certainly is true when fall turkey hunting is "gobblers only" as it is in Alabama. THere is NO biological reason NOT to have a fall turkey hunting season, so I support having one whether I hunt in the fall or not. If someone wants to kill 5 in the fall why should I tell him he can't?

Yep. Jackson County.

I just think three in a state is enough. I dont have any data to back up why I feel that way. I just enjoy hearing turkeys and fooling with them. A successful hunt to me doesn't have to end with a kill. Dont get me wrong, I like whopping a head as much as anyone, but it seems everyone these days is all about the kill numbers and are getting a little greedy.

...and gobbler you're starting to sound like 49er

I think it should be extended to 8 birds. That's just the way I feel....

Hell yea!!!

At least I'm not cutting and pasting

Here are not good reasons to set limits:
"I just think"
"I feel like"
"Any more than (insert your personal number here) is greedy"
"I don't need more than"

9 r is dedicated to protecting freedoms in the best way he knows. I tend to agree with more often than not. He doesn't trust the govt (those who set the rules, although often don't play by them) and neither do I!

My point exactly

Good point gobbler... Some of us should just take it into our own hands regardless of the law... If we are overpopulated...as are many deer populations....Just kill till it's under control... Whether it be 3...5..8..12... I mean...the State obviously can't get the harvest numbers right since they manage as a whole and not individually... manage your own property as need be...

This may be the best thread I've read since I've been a member here!

Well someone "felt" like it should be 5 at some point, so obviously someones feelings are effecting things.

I have never understood how a biologist could say that there is a difference between killing a jake and killing a longbeard, as far as managing a turkey population is concerned.

It's a deep, dark mystery to me..... I can understand why it would be worse on the population to kill a longbeard instead of a jake - since only 28% of jakes carry viable sperm - but have never been able to mentally grasp how it could be worse to kill a jake instead of a longbeard.

You tell em gobbler!

I think that if there are still mature gobblers on the Coosa WMA after Decades of the most intense pressure imaginable, then it is impossible to kill them off.

It will never happen because it would be too radically different than other states, but the most biologically sound limit would be to just go to one a day. That is somewhat enforceable, and keeps folks from trying to kill off an entire group of gobblers that happens to walk up on them in early season.

Removing the 5 bird season limit takes away the goal for the few hard-core AL hunters that are also honest enough to stop at 5. With no goal, these hunters probably wouldn't work so hard to get to 5. And there are not that many in this group, and I seriously doubt the group has any biological impact on the flock. There are plenty of outlaws who will kill double-digits each year and it doesn't really matter if there is a season limit or not for them.

But one a day doesn't seem "fair" to many, so in our socialistic world of today it will never happen. Most hunters will continue to hope to kill one each season, the hard-core ones like many of you guys reading this will still try to get to 5, and the outlaws will continue to kill all they want. Reducing the limit to 3 would do nothing to help the turkeys. It might make some people feel better about themselves, so at some point it will probably happen.

I have read many articles by biologist and talked to wild turkey biologist about it. They all say you cannot kill them all out.

I believe them, and I believe in gobblers' and crenshawco's post as well. Wild turkeys move around alot. And everytime I kill a gobbler, there is another one there in the next day or so. I killed one behind my house right after flydown one morning, and about an hour before fly up that same day there was a gobbler up their gobbling.

Turkeys move around alot. I tend to believe that they may stay in an area for about a week, then move on, with another coming in. The later in the season, the more they move looking for any left over hens still breeding.

I think they breed earlier in the season than what a lot of people think anyways. Remember, a hen can hold sperm for like 20 days. ANd I assume turkeys like having sex just like us, so even though the hens are already fertilized, they continue to breed until they have completed their clutch of eggs and start laying on them.

I think the only way you could kill all of the gobblers is to just drop nuclear weapons across the southeast.

Man, you guys act like y'all have never heard of the 3 S's........

I've got a biologist buddy that is absolute death on a stick on his turkeys at his house. Between him and his kids, well, there can't be more than like 2 longbeards left on 1000 acres come May 1st. And year after year, guess what happens? It reloads. It will reload during the season. Yes, it is pretty good habitat. It is on a creek, which he says helps.

All I know is they damn near kill every longbeard that draws breath down there year after year....and they are killing em as we speak.


Now, about this 8 a year limit..... I'm in

That maybe so, but the question was what is the biological reason for having a Fall season. If it was, then there would be more than the 6 counties with a Fall season.

Apparently, that is exactly what happened to my land....I thought it was logged but apparently it was Nuclear bomb!

With both limits and how many birds to shoot in mind. You would think who ever sets the limit should know about how many turkeys are out there. Is there a turkey density map? Also what do y'all think the average turkey density lets say per square mile is on an average piece of bama ground.

You don't think biology has anything to do with the fact that only 6 AL counties have a fall season do you? What is the biological reasoning for having a fall season on deer, doves, quail, etc... Turkeys are no different - fall seasons are justified biologically. It is the time of year that the "crop" (young of the year) are abundant and the excess can be taken. Spring season is only a function of hunter pleasure - they would rather kill one gobbling than in the fall - NO biological reason for it!



Turkeys are harder to estimate than deer and certainly there is no valid data for density in the state. Maybe some small private propertes have good data. Deer, turkey, etc. density maps are a pure guess made by "who ever sets the limits"!!

Those were decisions based on science, not feelings. Well, I am assuming it's science-based.

A better discussion would be why don't we have an increase in the per day limit. Lots of people can double in Georgia, and if it was legal here, I could have doubled this year and be sitting at 3 birds instead of 2, if I was counting. If the overall limit is 5, what does it matter when you kill your 5?

teamduckdown should loose privilege to make a comment on turkey hunting if he thinks the state should go back to 3 birds per hunter, you obviously just don't have the places to hunt or the ability to kill more than three. 5 isn't enough already since I could kill 20 a year if I wanted, but 3 what a joke of a comment

This just got a whole lot more interesting...

I base my decision off of how many hens and jakes im seeing.

The limit is still 5 in those 6 counties just like the rest of the State. So, what is the biological reason for the Fall season. Speaking of deer, alot of people on here say that shooting pregnant does doesn't affect anything verses shooting one in early season. What's the biological reason between that and shooting one in the summer?

Chit just got real.

Dr. B

Let me write it real slow for ya... Fall seasons are based on the biology that after the breeding season is over and there is an abundance of young-of-the-year in wildlife populations, it is biologically sound to harvest some of the crop... It is the same biological justification for deer, doves, quail, rabbits, squirrel, ...... Do turkeys somehow operate on a different biological plane than other wildlife? If so, I missed that in my years schooling and practicing! What is the biological justification for a spring season?

The question should always be, if we want to change or loosen the rules, is there a biological reason NOT to, if it won't damage the population of the wildlife species... if there is no biological harm, then it should be ok to do! If we want to restrict or tighten the rules, the question should be is there a biological justification for it - will the wildlife species benefit from it. If not, then don't do it!

While deer are different, there is no difference between shooting pregnant does or non-pregnant does, early season does or late season does. I'll be shooting a few pregnant does in the next couple weeks - shouldn't be a problem there either!

>>>Spring season is only a function of hunter pleasure - they would rather kill one gobbling than in the fall - NO biological reason for it!<<<

Now wait a minute! I know better than to argue turkey biology with you, so this is probably just a question of semantics, but someone might not understand. Or maybe I am wrong; see if you disagree with this:

The spring gobbler is an excess bird in the flock. Seasons are set so that nearly all of the hens will be bred before the season even comes in. I've got to watch 2 being bred this spring, and that's the first time I've ever seen it more than once. Maybe the cold winter slowed them down a little?

At any rate, the gobblers job is pretty much done when the season starts. There won't be any more or less poults whether he lives or dies. If he dies, there will be plenty of other gobblers to take over for him next year. So from the standpoint of biology, this bird is the one to kill.

Doesn't that present a biological argument for a Spring season with a generous limit?

Write it anyway you want to. Why has only 6 counties had the Fall season? On your logic, we should have deer season in the summer months, since the breeding season is in the Fall? What is the biological justification for not having a Spring turkey season?

Theoretically, there were more of these "excess" gobblers in the fall, since the passage of time from October to April can ONLY result in lower turkey numbers. So, again theoretically, from a biological standpoint it would be wiser to harvest the appropriate number of "excess" gobblers the day after the last poult was hatched for the year (the day when the highest turkey numbers of the year is recorded). This would maximize turkey harvest.

Your timing scenario has a "little" merit However, I would not say the gobblers job is done by Mar 15. I don't have any data to back me up but I would say that the majority of hens are bred in April that result in nests. Certainly some earlier but also a lot bred later, even into summer. Yea, the population does not need all those gobblers and many are excess, but some are needed all summer for potential "fill in" breeding for those hens who got broke up late!

When the spring seasons were originally set, I doubt they were considering whether breeding was done by Mar 20. I think they were more concerned with whether they were gobbling good yet



There are some excellent Basic Biology texts available that I can recommend for you. I know this concept is hard for you to understand but it does not matter when a critter screws, it matters when they are done raising their young to juvenile stage - fall. I'll try it one more time... Deer, Turkeys, Quail, squirrels, rabbits, doves, ducks, geese, snipe, woodcock, bears, mice, weasels, fox, coyotes, beavers, otters, even fish and bugs for cripes sakes, (you get the point) all reach their highest population in the fall after the young are raised to juveniles. This is the time traditionally set for game harvest for the majority of wildlife species. I believe, this was the time set for turkey harvest when the first game laws were enacted in Alabama and ALL counties with a turkey season had FALL turkey season. It was not just 6 counties, I remember when most counties had fall season, they have whittled it down to 6 remaining.

How can you twist my logic to having deer season when does are pregnant, that would be like having a hen season in March and April - how do you get that I think that? And why do you want to know what the "biological justification for not having a Spring turkey season" is. Are you simply trying to be an ass?

You make my point on why a daily limit does far more to protect gobblers than a season limit. If you could kill more than one a day you would have, and so would a whole lot of others. There would be a lot fewer gobblers out there for people to hunt. As it stands now, the season limit has had zero effect on you, and it won't affect most others either. But the daily limit has kept you from killing a gobbler. Would you have really been any happier that day if you had killed 2?

People do double up in GA; I've done it myself a few times. Some even triple up. And then they go out the next day and try to do it again, because the season limit is an honor system and lots of them don't have much of that. A guy I hunt with in GA told me about a guy he knows that killed over 30 one season.

The 5 bird season limit in AL is unenforceable, and the GA limit is too. In AL, it has become a goal more than a limit. Your argument seems based on the assumption that you are gonna kill your 5 turkeys, so what difference does it make when you kill them. The fact is that most are not gonna kill 5, but lots of folks would shoot into a flock of gobblers and kill several if they could. That doesn't seem like a wise use of the resource to me.

I have often wondered how many in AL actually killed a limit. That info should be easily available from the Hunter Survey, but they don't publish it. I've written the study leader before and asked, but never got a reply. I've always thought that the number of hunters that kill 5 and then quit shooting them is probably less than 100. It would be interesting to find out.

Well, maybe I'm wrong then. But you were the one who told me a single gobbler could breed 20 hens in a day.

I've read about the timing other states use for setting seasons and their goal was to not start it until most of the hens were bred. I may have jumped to the same conclusion that some others have in this thread - that AL actually considers the science involved in setting seasons and limits.

I like preacher's one a day limit. I never could figure out why somebody would want to shoot two turkeys out of the same bunch at the same time instead of being able to go back and hunt them again next time.

Since I tend to agree with you on the season and daily limits, and the fact that you probably cant kill all your gobblers off a property within the law (may have to beef up the baiting and roost shooting laws), the point is moot. They decided that turkey hunting in spring was fun and found no negative biological consequences from it so it is and I am glad for it!!

BTW, that 20 hen gobbler - he would smile if he didn't have a beak

I like preacher's one a day limit. I never could figure out why somebody would want to shoot two turkeys out of the same bunch at the same time instead of being able to go back and hunt them again next time.

I agree shooting one at a time is no big deal, its almost like getting to work a bird and come close to killing him, having the same adrenaline rush and yet you don't kill him and get to experience his greatness all over again. Almost everytime I kill a turkey or watch one die, I want to breath life back into him so I can hunt him again, but then I have fried turkey breast for dinner and I'm happy I killed his arrogant self

Yes it did...

if you fail to kill a turkey for the next 10 years (using legal methods) you will know why.

Maybe you should hang onto those biology books. It's not hard for me to understand at all. Thanks for your concern, though. My original post was what was the biological reason for a Fall season? You turned it around into why should it not be. I ask you the same thing about the Spring season and you ask if I'm being an ass. I didn't say it matters when an animal screws. You said hunters wanted to hunt a gobbling turkey, during the breeding season. I didn't bring up other species, first. 5 gobblers are 5 gobblers, regardless when they are killed. My question was simply what difference does it make if they are taken in the Spring? It's still a reduction of numbers.

I don't come anywhere close to my limit, as most hunters do not, except some of the exceptional ones on here. Heck, I'm doing good to get one. Just saying that this year I might have come the closest ever at 3 birds if I could shoot two on the same day. If it's an honor system issue or ethical system issue, the increase in the daily limit won't change me into a nonethical hunter or a nonethical hunter into an ethical one. You either abide by the laws, or you do not.

If I, by some miracle, were to ever kill 5 gobblers in a year, 5 die regardless of whether it's 5 different days or 4 days. So I'm not seeing how there would be fewer gobblers out there for people to hunt by doing it one day at a time.

Again, as for shooting into a flock, people will do that to get a shot at ONE bird! It goes back to you are either an ethical hunter or you are not. I don't see the daily limit changing that. I, for instance, would only take those two birds if it was a scenario like I had earlier this year. I called in two gobblers that were side by side, I could have easily killed both. No other turkeys were around to injure. Instead, I had to wait and get a clean shot on just one. I was tickled as it was to get just one, but a double just seems like a cool thing to be able to do.

The "5 bird limit" is still just an honor system this year like others I'm seeing less and less honor. Our season up here in north bama is 8 days old and I personal know more than a few that have limited and exceeded the limit. I killed my 4Th Sunday and havent been back yet jus to strech my season. Prolly gonna take my bow and try my luck.

>>>You either abide by the laws, or you do not. <<<

AU Trout bum, I didn't mean to imply in any way that you might not abide by the law. Its just that if someone unethical had been in your position and they killed them both, they at least knew there was a chance the GW might catch them. GWs have caught plenty of folks killing over the daily limit; I know some personally. Even related to one.

But from all I can tell, there has never been anyone prosecuted for exceeding the turkey season limit in AL. A law that's been on the books for decades and never once been enforced is pretty useless as far as I'm concerned.

If we need to reduce the harvest, shorten the season. That would actually have an effect. Reducing the limit from 5 to 3 would accomplish nothing.

So you're one of "those guys" huh?

You're new here, so I'll just assume you're ignorance is what makes you come off as a f*kin moron.

Watch out fellas, Big Mouth Billy Badass Turkey Killer has spoken!

Did you make him walk to the front on Sunday morning?

All of the posts in this thread are based on opinion. I have my opinion, you have yours. Im not here to be critical of anyone for their opinion or the way they feel. Sure its up for a discussion, that's why its posted here. But you're always going to have that one jack-leg that gets butt hurt because od someone else's opinion. Until some one provides some data it will all stay as opinion.

I agree with whoever said it should just be one a day....

And I have answered it several times starting with my first response to you, yet you keep asking it:

Preacher I agree with you to an extent. I have never taken over the limit. I may have on occasion taken over the daily limit but if I did it was by accident. But as ive already said, as long as 5 is the limit, that's my goal. But if 3 were the limit, then that would be my goal. Either way I have a goal.

As ive already said though, I can have just as much fun with them even after killing a limit.

You're too ugly to have a valid opinion

No, you just state that that's the way it's been in the past. I don't see any biological reason for not hunting them in the Spring.

Ask, and ye shall receive. FYI...These are population 'estimates'.

If I go the next 10 years without killing a turkey then I myself am a failure to turkey hunting. I didn't say that I do kill 20 a year but I could, and with killin my limit every year the places I hunt still have an equivalent amount of birds year to year, I've killed 12 turkeys out of one field in the last 3 years and there "were" 4 more right back in there this year. If you work your land and prepare the places properly you won't have trouble keeping turkeys regardless of how many you kill. I mean watch the field of Dreams, If you build it they will come, but in my case its if you plant Chufa's they will come

Great stuff! I wish there was a more recent survey!

Actually, the state is working on that now. Should be a large release of info come out next year and the next.

I wonder how they got these estimates, if it was number of birds reported killed in each county or what, where'd you find that map?

http://outdooralabama.com/hunting/game/turkey/Alabama%20Wild%20Turkey%20Book.pdf

State of AL produced the book. Map was included (page 57). There's a wealth of excellent info and knowledge in there.

I can't tell you how they came up with the estimates. You'll have to ask them and read the book.

If that is your premise then we agree - there is NO biological reason for not hunting them in the spring. I like hunting them in the spring and I have NO problem with it. Wow... carry on

They did a pretty good job on that map as far as Jackson county is concerned

Definitely estimates and not a survey. Turkeys are tough to get good numbers on as this map shows - much of it is purely a guess. Mississippi does as good a job of data collection as any State does and it is still a guess. Here is their annual pub with their methods. Alabama does not do anything like this.

http://www.mdwfp.com/media/217342/turkey_report_2014.pdf

Well we need to change that! The only two things Mississippi is allowed to do better than us in is: obesity and low test scores!

It will always be estimates until they do a tagging system like everyone else.

People that hunt south Alabama ain't got a clue how lucky we/they are. The map is somewhat true, up in north central, north west Alabama most farms and what not do not have turkeys and never have.

I could not imagine owning or having rights to a place with 26 birds per square mile! From my past experience having 4 or 5 gobblers on a 600 acre tract is dang good. I just cannot fathom having a spot 640 acres with 10-20 longbeards on it,and more to spare on the surrounding land.

Alabama has sent surveys out his year. I don't know if this is the first year or not. What exactly is MS doing better than AL in regard to turkey populations?

Glad you changed your mind.

Please, if you can, show me where I ever said that there was any biological issue with hunting them in the spring?? Once... anywhere... go ahead and go back as far as you need... just one quote...

Were talking total turkeys not gobblers. You would have to think maybe half that is hens so about 12 male birds so maybe half jakes half longbeards. So 6 longbeards on 640 acres seems about like 25 turkeys/sq mile

I would be happy with a limit of 1............. Per day.

Comprehension is a wonderful thing. no biological reason does not mean any biological issue with spring season, positive or negative. It means just that - no biological reason for spring season. They set it because they liked to hunt gobbling birds and it there is no biological issue with it.

Yes it does. Which brings me to my op. What is the biological reason for having it in the Fall verses the Spring? Besides, because that's when they set the seasons years ago when they first started hunting seasons.

I'm going to let someone with more patience take over from here.

No, that was long before I became a preacher.

He was young and dumb; didn't even know it was against the law to kill 2 in a day. Willingly opened the trunk of his car and showed them to the GW. Paid the fine and they actually gave him his turkeys back.

I don't really think I would kill more than 5 if the limit was just one a day; 5 is just the number in my head after all these years. I would be unhappy if they changed it to 3.

But I really think there is a good chance I wouldn't feel the pressure to hunt as hard with a one-a-day limit. With no goal, it wouldn't matter if I killed just 3 or 4. I think I would take a more laid back approach. I'm not sure of this; would have to experience it to know.

What they really need a season limit on is ducks. I haven't killed a single duck the last 3 seasons, while other guys kill dozens or even hundreds. How is that fair? They should give out tags and strictly enforce a 3 duck season limit. Nobody needs to kill more than 3 ducks in a season.

I've almost lost mine with you. Just tell him he's right!

The problem is - if they set a 3 duck limit you would then, naturally, go out and kill your 3 ducks, thereby increasing the overall harvest! Now that I think about it, I know a lot of folks that give away deer meat - maybe no one needs to kill more than one buck and one doe a year. I feel that is a fair limit

I agree 5 birds is 5 birds but if there were no daily limit in place There would be more gobblers killed,the first bird I killed this year had 2 other gobblers with him,I know I could have killed both with one shot easily,since that day those other two gobblers have not been killed yet and may not get killed this year,you said you could have doubled one day but since you couldn't legally kill more than one per day you've only killed 2 birds this season instead of 3,do you see how the 1 per day keeps less birds from being harvested?I've had several seasons where if I would have killed the multiple gobblers that I called up together I would have limited out,instead I fell short those years and only killed 3 or 4 those seasons

Thanks to the 100% accurate game check system . Before long it will be a half a turkey a season and 11 point or better on deer. Sorry to have to say this but I think that's all a big waste of money that could have been spent on the wildlife itself. For instance in the bankhead I can take anyone to field after field that's not seen a seed in years maybe a bush hog ever now and then.

MIGHT AS WELL GO BACK TO A 3 BIRD LIMIT,, HELL THEY SAY YOU CAN KILL ALL THE DEER OFF A PIECE OF PROPERTY.

What started out as a good discussion has turned out to be a dumpster fire!

I think the seasons are good, season limit is good, and 1 a day is good. The only chance I would like to see is a real tagging system such as the one Tennessee uses. And screw the deer hunting.

What purpose does that serve? Same purpose as the failed Game Check.... It serves none....

I am not going to mess around with you and argue. It gets an idea of how many birds are killed each year and in what county. Game check failure because it isn't required. If they would require us to check birds in at "gas stations" it wouldn't fail. Some what get away with it, but I am talking about the majority.

I'm not looking to argue... I simply told you it's purpose... It has none...

I'll give you a "real purpose" for a tagging system. It allows a GW to actually ticket a person for an untagged turkey...you know those guys who always have killed "four" birds?? The ones that kill 7-10-15 birds a season?? I knew a guy from Pickens Co that killed 45 in one season.....

I've never heard of anyone being ticketed for killing over the season limit..never.

Every enforcement Officer I ever knew was in favor of a tagging system to slow down the chronic offenders. Catch em coming out of the woods with an untagged bird...BAM. It won't stop em but most of us thought it could make a dent in the illegal kill.

I agree Fred. If someone is against taking 25 seconds to put a tag on their bird, well.... You might just be an outlaw.

Thank you for putting some actual sense in this topic. I sometimes think people on here do not wont to make it better.

Maybe people on this site will believe Fred, since he has made many post and has some credibility here.

So I guess you cant give a ticket to someone who hasn't written it down on their harvest record... That's cool then... I'll just not write my down anymore.. .

Yeea.. He cleared that up... Harvest record is useless....

Game check and Obama care ranks about the same.

Big ole mess

All this is kinda just like the gates at your property, it only keeps the honest ones out.

So Mr. Sarcastic, why are you against a real tagging system? Or do you not have a reason and just like to roll your eyes?

No laws, rules, and regulations catch everybody. And even though this country seems to be turning upside down, in the southeast there are still alot of good folks out there who do right. Game check or writing it down on your license is still voluntary right? Or doesn't it have to be done within 48 hours? I am not sure, but When I kill a gobbler or deer I immediately call it in just to make sure. I am one of those who try to do right, and who try to take care of our natural resources and follow the laws like I am supposed to.

What is so dang hard about putting a tag on a bird/deer and getting on the internet, a mobile app, or driving to a check station to report it? I actually enjoy doing this. I feel like I am doing my part. And if your greedy about wanting to kill 10-12 gobblers a year then do your thing. I am not trying to cast the first stone, but one day it could come back to haunt you.

Like I said earlier, I am not here to argue anything, I am just stating what I believe.

I like to roll my eyes...It's good exercise....

Just because I say it serves no purpose doesn't mean I'm against it....nor does it mean I'm for it....but to say it a better way of ticketing someone??? If that is the "real purpose"... Then the state needs to quit feeding us this bullchit about numbers of deer....numbers of turkeys... Tell us the truth ... Its about revenue.... Not management. .. Until they show otherwise....why would I be for it..

I don't blame them for wanting to make an extra dime, heck everyone does. The game wardens don't get paid hardly nothing anyways.

And it is about management. They have no freaking idea how many deer/turkeys there are in the state, and have no idea how many deer and turkeys we kill each year. Tennessee doesn't have exact numbers, because they have lawbreakers just like everyone, but they do have a better idea than we do.

I agree 100%... Not only them... But policeman and fireman as well... They don't get paid near what they deserve....




True they don't....If they count tags... All they know is how many dead deer and turkeys.... Still won't tell us what we have alive....

Never said I was against it... But do it for management reasons.... I'm all for a better deer herd and turkey population...I enjoy it to much..

I agree, will not tell us what we have alive, but will give a better idea.

it ain't about revenue, it's about enforcing an existing law.... lets stop enforcing the night hunting law an see where we go....

The "season limit" is a joke, always has been. Put some teeth into the reg or just do away with it....

the harvest record IS USELESS as an enforcement tool, the only folks that get caught without filling it out are folks that simply forgot to do it, violators, REAL violators just print off another one. So we're back to a GW having to catch Joe HUnter in the woods with six birds to write that season limit ticket. At about the third check Joe is going to be real hard to find and the GW ain't got a whole season, every day, to devote to just Joe.

and just what is your expertice in game law enforcement??????

I don't need any experience... I don't have to chase and catch em.... But I do have expertise in my opinion....
Your still gonna catch the ones who "forget" to put their tag on.... And your still gonna be chasing the law breakers who refuse to use them or wanna kill more than they're allowed.... You think a tag system will slow em down... Naah..

I do agree with you on stiffer penalties.... Jail time and felonies may curve "some" of the dumbazzes...but not all of them...

Question Fred? Did you politic for stiffer penalties or not? Also..do they listen to you guys or ask y'alls opinion on anything related to fines and penalties? I was wondering if they value y'alls opinion or just do what they see fit...

I don't recall ever "politicing" for stiffer fines and longer jail times, mainly because the state sets the fines and has no time to listen to field officers, hence the reason we have no turkey tagging system. IF they listened, then they would of heard EVERY SINGLE field office in the state opt for a tagging system. I feel it would help AND EVERY OFFICER IN THE STATE THAT I KNOW THINKS SO TOO. Several hundred years of on the actual job expertiece there.....

listen to us?? hail no, I'd bet that every idea from the field went into the circular file as soon as it hit Montgomery.

Lt Pugh and I went to Montgomery onct, met with Chief Halbrook. Lt Pugh asked if Montgomery would buy us hip waders to work duck hunting in. Halbrook responded "I would look pretty stupid wearing hip boots around the office"...meaning that if HE didn't need em WE didn't either. We bought em out of our own pockets, like we did a LOT of stuff.