Interesting discussion I had with The “TurkeyDoc”

Chamberlain and I had a little discussion on Pinhoti’s Instagram page.

A few take aways.

1. He is making a guess, that he calls a hypothesis.
2. He claims he has never said that hunters impact poult production.
3. But something’s gotta be done.......

Well. If only outback were around. That’s extremely difficult to follow.

Post image keeps swapping the order. Trying to straighten it out.

Just because something makes it past the peer review process doesn't mean it is gospel. Experiential knowledge and local knowledge would help greatly in these efforts. One issue is that "the experts" are often the ones that have learned the scientific method and not the ones with the most knowledge on the subject.

Think about how many things science / Biology has established and then changed

You’re right about the decoys. That works save a bunch of turkeys and they know that but it’s about the money

Good job in making your points.

Isn't he the guy that said that AL was going to look like Arkansas in 10 years when he spoke to the CAB? What he said to you looks like some serious backtracking from the proclamations he made at that meeting.

Let me again ask everyone to write a letter to the CAB. I am convinced that we have a really good chance to win this fight, but we need more folks to speak up.

"hunting activity influences how turkeys move and behave" "can be negatively impacted by the removal of dominant birds early in the breeding season" "it's plausible how we harvest this bird could influence reproduction".......

"I've never said hunters have a negative impact"


Statements like these are why I always assume these folks have an ulterior motive....that's a lot of double talk and beating around the bush that I quoted.

And look carefully at all the 5 points that he made. The first 4 aren't even controversial; any turkey hunter could have told him that. But there is no evidence that those things affect reproduction. So there are fewer gobbles per day when turkeys are hunted - so what? A hen only needs to be bred once to be fertile. And then the way he worded his conclusion in point 5 starts out with "it's plausible". That is one heck of a long way from the idea that it's proven. But the way they repeat it over and over makes most people ignore all his qualifiers.

He is one of the guys who wrote the letter during the last turkey season warning that Covid was gonna have disastrous effects on reproduction because so many gobblers were being killed. Instead, we've had the greatest hatch of the modern era. I think you would have to go back to the Indian days to find a year when this many poults were produced in Alabama.

I gotta get my letters in the mail

I’d second outlawing decoys. That would mean fewer hunters in the woods. I correlate the legality of decoys with the spike in the number of hunters. Some folks can’t hunt any other way and wound quit if they couldn’t use decoys. I say this not for any biological reason but just to reduce the competition.

I’m no biologist but I’ve always thought 3 things determined if you held turkeys. Habitat, natural food sources, and dry weather during the nesting season. Lose any of those and I’ve typically seen a decline in the population. At least around central Al. Can’t speak for the rest of the state. Reducing predators is an added bonus if you can do it. But I’ve hunted places that always had plenty of turkeys without removing predators.

Time is running out. I don't know when the next meeting will be. They used to have one in February. Anyone know? I expect it to be virtual and not well publicized.

If they allow the public to have 3 minutes per person, we need to fill the place up. Atoler, you need to go and just read those points he made and explain there is no way they should make major changes based on that.

If decoys are illegal then turkey hunting out of a pop up blind for any able bodied person should be banned too. All then ban box calls cause they make it easy too.

I'm 100% in agreement with you. The issue is that as biologists sometimes the line is blurred into policy and management considerations. And as much as policy people say it, science doesn't "tell" us anything. It is just a tool (a good one) to help us understand stuff. Problem comes in that most phenomena are more complicated than our sampling and/or modeling are designed for.

If I was a betting man I'd look at nest predation (and poult survival) with temp and precipitation during peak nesting.

Alabama spring fires would also concern me and density of poultry farms/manure spreading. But that's just me.

I think if you change the season to protect male turkeys you’re gonna make it harder for most folks to kill them which will lead to lack of interest in it which leads to less management. Or folks will get the wheat seed and scratch feed out and ambush away. I just wish the state would let me manage my place as I see fit and if I screw it up I’ll be out of the turkey hunting business.

You may not have been around when we did it 7 or 8 years ago in this forum, but we did a scientific study that absolutely proved that spreading untreated chicken manure was wiping out turkeys. I can probably dig it out of my files if anyone new wants to see it. The Chicken Mafia buried the study and silenced us, but I think it was more scientific than some of the stuff being put out now.

I would be interested in reading that.

I agree on flooding the meeting, it would at least get the point across that we were taking the situation seriously.

Count me in!

At least somebody spend 3 minutes showing them what a map of the state looks like and a little discussion about how green up in AL is about a month process from south to north. Always seems ignored.

I'm in. When and where?

I will be glad to provide my experience over the past 7yrs on my property and the surrounding properties. I'll be glad to show current pics, also. Parts of my county didnt even have a season until 2yrs ago

Conversations like these make me step back and ask what is it that y’all are wanting? More turkeys? Fewer hunters? Is the argument based on people not killing as many turkeys?

To be left alone. That ole tried and true conservative idea.

WE manage land. The state tries to manage people. They stink at managing wildlife.

Just where is this science in the good Doc’s “hypothesis grounded in science?” Moreover, he passes it off as theory even if he says otherwise. And, “theory without data is groundless.” What’s worse, people are blindly accepting it as the truth and ready to change season dates/limits. 👎🏻

He absolutely has made comments, innuendos, etc that hunters effect reproduction. That's his whole thing. He paints the room with assumptions leaving only what he wants to be true unpainted. Boom --> what I want to be true must be true . He's a clever liar but still a liar.

Go on and preach my friend! Prolly has a great career in politics if he ever desires one. Sheep love to follow those types.