What Can We Do As Hunters In Alabama To Make Our State a Trophy Whitetail State

Also What Kind of Influences can we give or suggest to CAB to help drastically improve our trophy numbers .
I know i have opened up a can of worms with this but I would love to hear Matt and BSK thoughts as well. Example we alsways here of Illinois Kentucky etc people always wanting to go there , just wondering how we can improve our Boone and Crokett and trophy numbers.

"What can we do....."

Require every landowner to plant 50% of their
property in soybeans.

Nothing..... our laws won't allow it. You can only hope to have a property large enough to manage yourself.

Oh, boy!

Shorten the seasons to 60 days total and only have one week of gun season that only includes black powder and shotgun.
Go to a real tagging system and only Allow one antlered deer per hunter. You asked how to make it a Trophy STATE. That is about the only way to do it.

You can manage your property and Co op with surrounding landowners to plant the best forage available , select timber harvest and exercise trigger control. That can help you reach some goals on your property but to do anything statewide will require legislation.

Btw, I don't condone anything like what I posted above on shortened seasons. Just pointing out that it all sounds good until you start looking at what it would really require.

EXCELLENT posts, bill!!!

Cut some of these pine trees and plant beans and corn. Burn under the remaining pines. Make these and other habitat improvements possible. Mainly requiring timber companies to pay closer attention to habitat management, which is probably not feasible for their business due to the cost of such management. And the main thing, teach trigger control. I really don't think a whole lot of people care to have trigger control, or don't understand what it means. I think to really make a difference, there would have to be a 1 buck rule across the state (which I'm not for).
Bill posted exactly what I'm trying to say. Good post bill.

That's a good start......

No possible way to many poachers.

Iowa, Kentucky, Illinois, Mississippi, Wisconsin and Kansas have poachers.

Exactly! And in most of those states it's a heck of a lot easier to see them standing just off the road.

In short, NOTHING! Don't get me wrong, there are tons of things we as individuals can do to make our place better than it is, but there is nothing we can do state wide to try to be what the midwestern states are. They have colder climates, better soils, better genetics. There will be an occasional monster killed here and there in Alabama, but it will never yield what the midwest and northern states do. We need to manage our properties the way we want to and leave the rest of the state alone.

They also have a much larger species of deer - Virginianus Borealis
that produce bigger bodies and hence bigger antlers - on top of having
tons of row cropping that significantly increases antler development.

A one buck rule in Alabama would not increase at all the size of
antler development of Alabama deer at any given age.

{I realize that Ky deer are really a mix of V. Virginianus and V. Borealis
put point remains for that State nonetheless esp. Western region where
the row cropping is}

Pay attention Blessed! He gave you the answer: NOTHING!

You are incorrectly and futilely hoping for a magic wand
to create Alabama into the Midwest and Plains States for bucks and
it is a physical impossibility. You just have to manage the area that you
do have control of the best you can - and try to get surrounding properties
and areas to do the same. That is all that can be done to maximize the
buck situation whereever you are bearing in mind that the Deep South
will never be the Midwest,South Texas, etc.

Are you prepared to pay "trophy" prices to hunt in your trophy state?

I agree with the concept and like killing big bucks as much as anyone. However, I think by doing so on a statewide basis will push a lot of hunters out of the market.

The three buck rule is starting to pay dividends. I have seen more big bucks being taken pretty much statewide since it's introduction. Just my opinion.

My question is why would you want to do that? Everybody isn't hunting "trophies". Killing deer is still enjoyable and fun. Nobody likes hunting big deer more than I do, but changing laws and regulations to force that view on everybody hunting in this state is not only selfish, but not what is best for the sport. It is actually detrimental to hunter recruitment and retention. There are things the state could do to put more bucks into an older age class, but why would we? Current regs allow people who want to do that the ability to. Current regs also allow the guy who gets to hunt only Thanksgiving and Christmas to kill whatever the heck he wants.

It is not right to legislate trophy hunting, period.

To answer your question though....simply go from 3 bucks to 1. More bucks live, therefore getting older. Older bucks grow larger antlers than younger bucks. I am NOT in favor of that statewide.

WmHunter, I know the soil/food/deer is different in the Midwest and North but believe you missed my point.

The statement was made that Alabama has too many poachers, therefore poachers are the reason bucks can't get to 'trophy' size.

The six states I listed all have poachers that shoot bucks. I'd argue that our Bama poachers, and we have plenty, no doubt, are not the reason we don't have 'trophy' bucks "like other states."

My personal opinion is we need to get back to the basics. Get a real tagging system (I like the TN system). Go to a DMAP system where each property/club/co-op can be managed on its own merit.

Hasn't that been revived again?

And isn't one of the Commissioner's planned proposals, to be discussed this Saturday at the CAB meeting, to have a better data-gathering method through a tagging and/or tele-check system?

What's the over/under on 15 pages? How many bans?

For those that say it can't be done, I am old enough to remember when south Montgomery (Woodley Rd area) had monster bucks. Lots of soybeans planted back then in that area and they had BIG bucks. We might not grow 200 in deer but we could dang sure improve alot over what we have now.

Bill hit the nail on the head. And like he said, I am not in favor of this. Just stating the facts.

Not sure... I haven't stayed in the loop like I did in the past.

Corn

"What Can We Do As Hunters In Alabama To Make Our State a Trophy Whitetail State"

My response would be, "Why would you want to turn AL into a trophy state?"

About the best answer you can have!

Barry - what were the season limits back then? I didn't grow up hunting in Alabama, so I don't know.

Almost word for word what I said.

High fence the whole state.

We had a certain number of "Doe Days" and a buck a day.

I just put the question up to see how alot of people felt , I hear people say why dont we do things like MS we are always behind in regulations etc My only complaint would be to somehow get these 2-3 year old bucks into there next stage and by that I mean the ages that their antlers really take off , I know to some extent its laying off the trigger but i feel like only a small percentage of hunters do that , I would like to see timber companies help improve wildlife habitat even if that means passing the price on thru lease prices , i feel we would have more healthy deer and turkeys and also help quail .
I think the 3 buck rule has done wonders and we will continue to see it payoff in years to come .

Two week gun season before or after the rut.

ok, gotcha. sorry for missing your point. I agree.

Blessed,
you just have to keep preaching and practicing QDM
and that is all you can do. You cannot force it on
people and we certainly don't want more government
involvement than there already is. Trying to get bucks
into the older age brackets begins with what we do ourselves
on the territory that we have control over, and of course
the same goes for habitat management. Even then, as I said
upstream, you are never going to see the same percentage
of 4.5 or 5.5 year old bucks in Alabama get to (much less
exceed) the 150 mark as in the Midwest. That is just the
way it is - unless there was a massive agricultural revolution.

Your right WmHunter its all about educating people I had to learn growing as a hunter in my early years and have since became more educated in later years and enjoy trying to make
better fields , help natural browse and soil management .

I agree, as long as the "education" involves accurate information. I honestly believe that for much of AL, the problem isn't getting bucks into the older age-classes, it is getting hunters to understand that most AL land won't grow large antlers on even mature bucks. Up in TN, one of the biggest problems I run into with "educating" hunters is getting them to understand that even if they do produce mature bucks, most of those mature bucks are only going to grow 110-120 antlers. Most Southeastern hunters have been watching too many hunting shows filmed in the Midwest, were bucks grow 20 to 30 more inches of antler than same-age bucks in the Southeast.

Completely do away with dog hunting!They have no time to look at a buck and age it. Just shoot whatever runs out with horns.

Why not just travel to one of those States to hunt....or, heck, even MOVE there.

Just leave me and my hunting alone!!!

First we'd need a fleet of helicopters with spreaders attached.

There are about 33.5 million acres in Alabama. We'd need to spread 67 million tons of lime for the first two years, then again at least every other year.

Gotta do soil samples first, Fur. Here's your 55-gallon drum.

Matt Brock hit the nail on the head. Let everyone hunt the way they want to. My idea of a trophy and yours may not be the same. If I want to dog hunt and have plenty of land to do it then leave me alone. If you want to go sit over a pile of corn then go do it. You do your thing and I'll do mine.

Some mid-west states have a $10k fine for road hunting and spotlighting. I'm betting they don't have the numbers we have.

This ^^^^. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Lower your expectations.

Matt's got it, good post.
As far as DMP I used to be in it just to get doe tags before we went to 2 a day. I don't need to pay the DCNR to hold my hand, let me and others manage our land through good education.

First and foremost, it would take everyone to be on board to hunt ethically across the board. Most of us on here prolly do hunt "by the book" and try to manage the places we hunt to the best we can. But then again the avg bama hunter probably doesn't give a rip with staying on top of the newest info, and or take interest in how others statewide are doing. They only care about what they have done, or maybe those on their hunting "click" I got the opportunity to go hunting on several leases this year as a guest. On each one of them, I was the exception to their rules, I could shoot any buck but a spike and or i could take a doe. The lease hunters had to hunt 6 or better. One group of guys I met on here wanted to taake me hunting badly, but this year they had instituted a NO DOE policy, and felt it would be unfair to allow me to come hunt a doe when none of the hunters who PAID for the lease could. I totally respect this level of management. Hopefully next season I will get invited to come shoot a bug buck off their place. Another I noticed, those with lots of deer, always said they had many, but they were small. The one lease told me, we don't have "herds" of deer. but the deer we do have are good mature deer for the most part. Surprisingly, it was this lease that had aall the guys seeing deer and passing on them as a group for better results next year. Guess over all I am long windedly saying it starts with the individual, and hopfully his example will be followed.

This is laughable!!!!! NOBODY WANTS "we as hunters" to do anything everybody that like to complain that Alabama ain't like Kansas, Iowa, Missouri, ad nauseum just want the State to MANDATE ON ALL some arbitrary political BS because a person can't just enjoy hunting if it not like the 30 minute clips on TV in States from States like..... Oh never mind breath is just being wasted.

I have said that all along!! If the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, then go to the other side of the fence!

There are a lot of people that already travel to those states to hunt. I am pretty sure very few people can just up and move for the sole purpose of deer hunting.

I would say that a lot of those states kill just as high percentage of young deer as is killed in Alabama and have poachers just like they do here. The difference is they have corn and soybeans growing in very fertile soil and we have pine trees growing in very marginal soil. There deer have very few places to hide and ours have very few places they can be seen. The results of this is they have larger bucks for every age class that are easier to see. The only way to change this would be to replace all the pine trees in AL with corn and soybeans. Which is never going to happen so I guess there is not a whole lot we can do to drastically increase the number of B&C deer that are killed each year in AL. I do think you could increase the age structure in places in the state with education and trigger control, but only to a certain extent because a lot of people don't care about that they just like killing stuff whether it be young bucks or 10 does each season and that is fine I just don't want to hunt with them or near them if I can help it.

I remember those days very well Barry. Back before Jimmy Carter put all of the farmer's out of business. The black belt produced some mighty fine bucks and soybeans.

I have NO interest in turning AL into a Trophy State. If you want trophies, manage YOUR land for it or travel to another State that you deem to be Trophy State. leave AL as is is, a GREAT State to hunt in.

Build a 12' Fence around Alabama and change the name of this website to MsDeer.

They should add a $25/inch penalty in addition to the fines now imposed for road/night hunting.

That could also help pay salaries for more Wardens

Absolutely true. Hunters in the Midwestern states kill about the same percentage of yearling bucks as hunters in most of the Southeast states, and hunters in some of the notorious "trophy" states kill quite bit higher percentage of yearlings (in Ohio, 50+% of the kill is yearlings).




And that's the Final Answer. TN hunters actually killing more mature bucks per square mile than KY hunters, yet KY hunters are loading up the B&C recordbook and TN hunters are not. What's the difference? Soil and habitat quality.

I think if the money that was spent in Hale County stocking deer had of been put into feeders providing top quality deer feed thruout the area it would have made a more significant result to the deer antler size increase. Of course it would take a few years to make a difference.

So why does our state not raise all the fees equal to most other states ex. license , our of state license , poaching fees etc.
Seems like it would take alot of stress of State Employees and increase their salaries because they dont make a whole lot for the situations they get put in sometimes .

I guess I am surprised this is still in question. There is only so many ways this can be said.

AL is NEVER going to be equal to a mid-western state. The best we can do is manage each area based on its own merit (Real Data). Have a tangible tagging system that can be checked and enforced easily. Make it so CEO's don't have a harder time than they do already and deer hunt.

If yall really want big deer. Buy all the timber land, cut down all the pines, take years to build up the soil and grow corn and beans

Ding.

Appreciate everything we do have, and forget about what we dont
That is what a trophy is. Dont you think Kentucky is jealous of Canada? Texas of Iowa? Who cares hunt hard the kill is secondary
A mature Key deer is just as challenging as a mature Saskatchy deer

Hey shano I shot 30 key deer in one month down there last year. They are very challenging animals. I used a catheter to keep my scent down those deer are extremely skittish. Also they are very small targets so I just had to aim dead center.

Key deer? Really??

are you 12 years old or just brain damaged???

BhamFred These small deer are very good eating

I see several that have mentioned a tag system, and I am curious will a tag system work?

I'm convinced that an honest man is honest because that is what is in his heart and if a man chooses to kill more than the limit then he is gonna do it no matter what system is in place. And thats why I have never supported the extra burden. I would, however, if the goal is to attain better data and information.

Don't knock the key deer till you have tried them. They are really delicious. Go get you one today and try it. Remember, it is still hunting season...until you get caught. Keep your head high, corn scattered, gun pointed, fry daddy on and plenty of bacon.

I'm thinking you have never hunted in minus 15, daylight till dark for 6 straight days.

This is the main reason I prefer it.

Who needs to do that when you can just apply corn and a night light out of your back window? Hunt smarter not harder!

2Dogs,
Did your toyota leave you stranded for 6 straight days?
And it was that Cold???

2DOGS are you hunting in Alabama? This is an Alabama hunting forum and when was it minus 15 degrees in Alabama for 6 straight days. It must be really cold stuck in that Toyota.

Not much left of a Keys deer after slammin' it with a slug gun, is there? Just a head and butt?

Yes it did. I remember seeing 150-160 inch bucks on a regular basis (in the back of trucks). Is shot an 8 pt back in the fall of 1980 that topped out 250 lb scales. And that didn't even really surprise anyone down there. I was shocked. Those deer were well fed and they grew big. The same thing could happen up and down the black belt today if there was enough "real" farming.

Slug Gun you used a catheter to keep your scent down on those Key Deer? Great Idea, they are skittish

Yeah, the bag and tube should still be down there in the woods. I just pulled it out after I shot and forgot to go back and get it. If you want it, you probably could just put it in the dishwasher and reuse. If you want I can PM you the coordinates of my hunting location. I won't be able to go back down there hunting until next weekend.

Hunted in Canada several times,Stevie.

These new guys need to be in the fishing forum...or the sports forum if Mullet were in season.

Really! Your Toyota made it that far.

You took a Toyota into Canada?

And just when the serious forum starts to regain footing with some good educational, serious discussion, these two ass clowns show up.

Why do YOU have to bring vulgarity to this forum.

X100

I still think they are just brain damaged 12 year olds....

How can you be serious hunting in Bay Minette?

BHam Fred you can tell by your post you are a really positive individual

and I can tell by your piss ant posts that you are under age 13......I'm positive of that

I have hair in my armpits though, so i feel as I can offer some insight

you stuff some cat hair in there???

Now that's funny Bfred. I think they should go play with themselves a few years and come back IF they grow up.

Yes sir(mountain lion) sprayed heavily with Harmon's

What is up with the ignorant post do people just come in here to post idiotic nonsense.

I have no clue what is happening on her mike?

first of some antler restrections and trigger control

first of some antler restrections and trigger control

Children will be children.

I bet there is a Time Out in their future, though.......

back to the topic
i dont need to be educated
i need to be left alone

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!

God bless you brother we'll pray for you

Make your club TEN point or better to many Eight points killed WELL

Best to not be focused on antler points and size
and be focused on age of buck. Learn how to age
deer on the hoof and have a group/club that also
knows how to do that and have everyone focus on only killing
whatever age group they agree is the minimum age.
For trophy purposes that would be minimum 4.5 years
old and some would say 5.5 minimum.

I passed a 130 inch 10 point this year that I
knew was only 3.5 and I know he will hit 140
next season, maybe more if I can get some high
protein food into him.

The flip side of these kinds of trophy standards
is that you have to accept the fact that you will
probably never see most of the 3.5s you are passing up
the following season.

Edit: you will probably not even ever see most of
the 2.5s you pass up the next year.

Good advice. Instead of clear cutting a 50 acre pine
plantation area that was situated in the middle of a property
that was at full maturity I cut it out to create a quail plantation habitat ( left pine trees spaced out 15-20 yards
apart) and burned it two years ago.

I also clear cut 10 acreas of it to get it converted to plantable
soybean fields. Still dealing with the stumps so I am not
there yet for that 10 acres but hopefully will be next year.
Gonna cut out another 5 acres of it this year for the same
purpose.

Edit: a good side benefit of doing this is consolidating
and compressing travel routes.

Mods...If ya'll don't mind, nobody wants to read this childish crap in the serious forum.

I agree is there not someone that can put an end to this nonsense.

Any time now......

he's gone, deleted his last two comments

Atta boy, Swampy

I'm not reading through all the posts. But:

1. Be careful what you ask for.
2. Don't bitch if you get what you ask for and your lease doubles or more.
3. Best be quiet and do the obvious...

shoot all the little bucks and all that will be left is big ones problem solved.

I didn't read all the posts but Bama will never be an IL, MO, KS, NE, KY, WI, parts of MS, etc... Sure, we'll produce some high-scoring bucks but not like other states.

I'm not for legislation whose main purpose is "trophy" bucks but rather make laws that promotes a "healthy" deer herd.

On average, we don't have the agriculture or the soil to do what you're trying to do. Educate yourself and manage accordingly.