Making sense of scents….just my two cents.

Something that would probably make most people on here a better hunter and likely a subject many have never gotten too deep into the weeds on is “scent”……Now I’m not referring to whether or not you like to use tinks or code blue or even necessarily that a deer can smell really well….These are things that most of us are familiar with and have talked about in the past. What I’m referring to are the different variables that effect scenting conditions and how a particular scent behaves. This is something that I guarantee you older deer have an intimate knowledge of. Its only something that I got deeper into as a result of blood tracking with dogs. I’ve found though that a lot of what I’ve learned directly correlates with hunting and our hunting strategies.

One thing I’d like to learn more about in this discussion is the interdigital scent glands. A lot of stuff is passed around amongst trackers on this subject and I feel like at least some of it is being misunderstood and mostly just repeated from what someone else has said. So anyone with knowledge of it please speak up with whatever you might can add……(cough, cough Matt Brock)….Anyone though for that matter....I know there's other very knowledgeable folks out there. One particular question I would like to know is how long that interdigital scent that’s secreted onto the ground is able to be picked up on by other deer….What I’m really looking for is how long after the shot can I still pick up on it with my dogs….My assumption is 4-5 hrs or less although it could be more…..I feel like its fairly short lived in comparison to something like blood though. Also, would a wounded deer likely secrete excess amounts of scent from this gland as a result of being wounded. I could see that being an alert to other deer but it also seems like that would be bad for the wounded deer to have such a reaction and it doesn’t fit what I’d see nature behaving. One last thing I'm curious about is I see a lot of folks using the bottom of deer legs to train and saying that they are laying down the interdigital gland scent and training the dog on it. I'm a little skeptical though as to whether or not you can take a dead deer leg from the processor. stick it in the freezer, and then lay down that scent on the ground months later by just pressing the foot into the ground. It seems to me like its something that would need to be "released" by the deer so to speak....or maybe extracted by the hunter from the leg and then laid on a scent trail. Oh, yeah.....one more last thing,,,,,,Is this scent unique to each deer like a fingerprint?

Now would be a good time to go to the fireworks stand and stock up on bunch of those little colored smoke bombs. Take them to the woods with you next time you go and light a few here and there....maybe in your favorite hunting spot.....and watch how the smoke flows.....Try it in different conditions at different times of the day....try one in the bottom and another 100 yards away on top of the hill etc.......... Buy a bunch of them and use them to better understand how scent is likely behaving.....Be sure to go out and try some at night as well in some of the same areas....

I’ve found that Grave digger and my piss, I better hang on.

I'm usually pretty good a deciphering these thing buuuuuut…….What???

I’ve tried everything they make, made, or self invented. I do this to entertain myself. One recipe I put in a spray bottle I will never divulge brings deer in pronto but when I make a mock scrape with Grave digger granules and piss in it before I sit down, the bucks come in aggressive and angry within barely enough time to sit down good. And this is being within 5 to 18 yards from them. I sit 25 yards from the scrape.

One time I sat in a tree with a 20 mph wind, I spread multiple baits out to see what they would do. I watched a buck close a thousand yards to one kernel of corn. If a person thinks a deer can’t smell them, they are delusional.

What I have in mind is more along the line of things like how humidity and the dispersion index effects his ability to use his nose. There’s no doubt that a deer can smell you but there’s variables at play that make it easier and harder depending on the conditions. When we go out and track deer for folks….it can be tough as hell on the dog if it hasn’t rained in a while and the air is dry as a bone. It may be that he isn’t able to follow a scent line that he would otherwise have no problem following if the air was moist and a little rain had fallen. The deer are no different. The same variables work for them and against them. Some things to consider are that humidity levels on any given day are typically the lowest between about 12-2…..The highest levels during daylight hours are at dawn and dusk…..However, the very best scenting conditions are at night when humidity levels are at their peak and the air is being pressed to the ground.

The term dispersion index is one used in controlled burning but its worth watching for hunting as well. When burning its basically a measurement of how quickly your smoke will rise high into the atmosphere where it won’t cause any issues. It can vary on any given day from smoke quickly getting gone to smoke being held down against the ground due to atmospheric conditions. Scent is no different. On days when the dispersion levels are bad your scent may flow for several hundred yards across the terrain where as on days when you have good dispersion it may quickly dissipate into the air in comparison. Humidity and dispersion are just a couple of the variables at play and it pays to know which ones might give you a little advantage…..Dispersion levels can be found be looking up the “fire

It just so happens I’m an expert in olfactory confusion, suppression, and manipulation. My schooling started right here at working dog ground zero. I applied what I learned about dogs to hunting and YES these manipulative techniques do make a whale of a difference on deer.

I never do it on deer but if I’m after a particular lone boar hog, I will shut their smell down as I have K-9’s for over twenty years on hundreds of missions.

Deer can be manipulated by overwhelming their complete olfactory system is such a way they don’t care if you are there or not.

Scent does flow like water and is effected by everything and an animal’s sense of smell can be a strength or a weakness.

I tracked for a guy one time that was responsible for the man tracking hounds at a prison.....He told me that the rail road tracks were one of the toughest places for the dogs to follow someone....Said the creosote "burnt the dogs nose up"


Matt Brock......If you don't know the answer to those questions its all good.....there's no shame in not knowing everything....BUT I'd be interested to hear you say that you don't know.....reason being, if you don't know....and other knowledgeable folks on here don't know either......then it highly likely that the information being passed along is BS that someone started somewhere down the line. It very well may all be true but some of the things just don't line up with what I'm seeing in the field.

Its odd the things or little differences that can throw a dog off, they just get tired of processing the smells and there are irritants. There are a few chemicals that will shut them down completely. Another oddity I found was wearing rubber boots works to some degree depending on environmental factors as stated in previous post. Track’s ain’t the only thing they can smell.

I agree....They can smell where the dirt has been kicked up and stirred up the microbes in the soil......soil disturbance...….Speaking of natural causes.....dry and low humidity is gonna be a big nemesis for them as well as gusty winds....I'd say days with low humidity with good dispersion and a steady 10 ish mph wind would be good days for having the conditions help you out. If we go through a drought during bow season.....key in on those times as well. Habitat plays a factor somewhat as well.....An open "prairie", savanna, clear cut, etc....is tougher on our tracking dogs than in the woods tracking.....A lot more swirling around going on out in those open areas.Pine stands covered in solid pine needles are tough to track in as well Closed canopy hardwoods and creek bottomes seem to be one of the better scenting habitats. Maybe the rich, highly fungal soil holds scent better or something or maybe they're able to follow the soil disturbance much better......Again for anyone reading along.....even though I'm talking about tracking dogs....it still directly relates to what a deer has to deal with too

When a dog is trained for a particular, its almost impossible to fool them.

Somehow my dog Otis is able to determine whether or not a deer is fatally hit within just a few minutes of checking things out. If its not a good hit then he doesn't want to track it. He didn't do that as a young dog....its something he's developed as he's gotten older. This is not too uncommon for tracking dogs that get a lot of work as I've heard of numerous other dogs that did this as they got older as well. Its awesome that he's able to do such but it doesn't work to well when we go out on a track and he gives me the look after assessing the hit site. Of course the hunter feels like theres a dead deer out there to be found and my dog won't track it because he just must not be a good tracking dog or whatever.....I've had it happen a number of times. It sucks when it happens for someone like Cam Lanier or Enon the fist time they call you out. Those are cool places to get to go to. Happened to me last year at Sehoy for Cam's son or grandson....I forget now…..Pretty sure the deer was just clipped really low...crossbow shot from a ground blind. I took my younger dog and spent several hours looking anyways....even came back the next morning and tried again. Haven't heard back from them yet though.....It is what it is........Just part of it......One minute your a hero and 30 minutes later a zero.....The vast majority of it hinges on the hunter's shot and actions afterwards...long before I ever get there.

This is what I know. There is nothing man made that can reduce scent enough for a deer not to smell you, if your scent plume reaches their nose. I try to use the wind direction and thermals to my advantage. I use no cover scents, no special clothing, and no special soaps. I see a lot of deer and kill mature bucks. I have deer come in directly down wind of me and not smell me. Why? Because my scent plume did not make it to his nose because of thermals or some other reason. All deer do not blow when they smell you, so trust me, deer are smelling you no matter how many fancy scents, soaps, or clothes you use. Dogs can smell dope wrapped in plastic submerged in a gas tank. Deer have 300 million scent receptors in their nose, dogs have 200 million, which means deer have better sense of smell. Dogs can smell cancer cells in the human body. If drugs dealers thought that fancy soap or clothes would reduce smell enough for drug dogs not to find their drugs, they would buy all of it and use it. Some people are going to go to extremes with scent control, and that's their prerogative. People watch too much TV. Somebody will say, I before I started using scent control I didn't see as many deer, well another thought is you became a better deer hunter as you age and that's why you see more deer. To each his own. I'll leave you with this. If you are going to use scent control, do it all the way, not half way. I respect the dedication of those extremists, even though I dont agree with them. Harold, read the book "The deer of north america" by Leonard Lee Rue the third. Great book and talks about the interdigital gland often.

I just grap a handful of pine needles and break them up to get the oils running and run down with the pine needles. Ain’t been busted by a deer in over 15 years. Next.

I will definitely check it out.....I appreciate that

Has anyone ever came across any research on deer or dogs ability to smell at night compared to during the day. I've heard a lot of different numbers this out there over the years about how far away a deer is capable of smelling you. I know I've been busted at 200 yards before. There's no one correct answer though because it completely depends on the conditions. I think it would be pretty eye opening if somehow we could determine some max ranges that deer zrs capable of picking up different scents at night....coyotes as well. Im betting that in certain situations like creek bottoms or long hollers, etc....It would not be far fetched to guess that they could pick on good odor from 500-1000 yards. If the scent satyed contained in terrain that kept it funneled it would flow for a long ways across the landscape at night....Coyotes are finding a lot of the wounded deer at right within hours of the deer being shot. Ive come to the conclusion that they're air scneting them from a good ways away because of how favorable scenting conditions are for them at night. They find them so quickly so often that you can rule out it being just random chance of just luckliy passing close

The only way to circumvent the situation is olfactory overload where so many or strength of scents used makes them not pay attention to one over another or to shut them down completely which is easiest to do with a K9.

Animals can pinpoint by sound and smell very well.

Wax myrtle, pine, honey suckle, cedar, vanilla, combo works pretty good for deer. If I’m after a particular buck or hog I leave a sweaty t-shirt in the area for half the year.

Loco, now you may be on to something. What scares deer, is anything they're not used to. Deer who live near subdivisions, hear traffic, kids playing, dogs barking, and smell humans constantly. They are not pressured, that's why they're easier to kill. You take a deer that lives in a remote area, and all of a sudden, hunting season starts, and they hear strange noises and smell strange smells, well it freaks them out.

The only part about the idea of overwhelming them I'm not understanding is if thats possible with that scent combination....then what would keep them from being overwhelmed with scent at any given time since there's smells everywhere.... especially if we're talking.g wax Myrtle and oine

Deer are also very good at assessing what is a danger to them and that isn't....In some situations it gets deeper than just "human odor". I've got a neighbor that spends so xmuch time in the woods taking pictures of wildlife that the deer dang near just seen her just as they would a squirrel or fox.....just part of nature and not s threat despite hunting going on all around them. The doe groups on my place are very similar...they're so used smelling me year round that they'll tolerate me being in a tree during hunting season knowing I'm there. They even start trying to find me sometimes when they smell me.....just sctimg curious

I think its the activated strength of the scent combos. Wax myrtle doesn’t have the intensity until you crush the leaves, same with pine and cedar. I don’t think it fools them, I think it makes them not care.

I figured we'd get around to the deer have more receptors than dogs so that means they have a better sense of smell snake oil. No one has ever answered my question are all receptors created equal.

Good to see some have finally gone to thermal and wind current school.

I got you....sensory overload I suppose.....Maybe it's just more than their brain can process when hit with it all at once.....Like when my wife clicks the mouse button twelve times in five seconds and then wonders why the computer is froze up.....

I seen 2 shooters today.....That's how you kill them bigguns........See em when they least expect it....

No fish oil, just plain old science. 300 is more than 200, or did they not teach math in your school. Lol.

Are all receptors equal? The common Turkey Vulture ( aka Buzzard) has one of the most sensitive senses of smell in the animal kingdom. How many they have in their snoz to go with their little bird brain? I searched the deep dark interwebs several years ago and found a university study of top sniffers , no member of the deer family was in the top 10 as I remember, but K9 was , but way down the list. Just because someone counted deer and dog's receptors and came to the conclusion deer can smell better doesn't mean it's so. Some scent/lure company found those numbers and said ah ha , I can use that to sell some cover scents I suspect . Show me the proof.

We've had this discussion before if you remember and I didn't get any hard proof then either. Even going back to QDMA forum days and all the smart guys on there, no body has answered my questions of are all receptors equal and does all animal brains process them equal because they can't . So I call BS.

Yea, I remember those discussions on the qdma. There used to be some very good discussions and I enjoyed them. I see your point, and I wish I could answer it, but I'm not a scientist, so I can't. Bottom line deer and dogs have too good of noses to be fooled by gimmicks. Use the wind and thermals to your advantage, I think we can agree on that.

We can.

Let me touch on " just hunt the wind" . Works great in flatland mid -west TV shows where the wind is almost always blowing hard and from a constant direction. Makes for easy hunting. "just hunt the wind" will not put a buck in the truck in hill and mountainous country. When the hill and mountain hunter understands thermals ( more vertical) air movement and wind currents( more horizontal) wind movements he'll become much more successful . Most understand what thermals are , the sun comes up and warms air in the valley or hollow below and the air lifts. But then there is wind currents around the hills. Wind in hills and mountains acts like water currents in a stream , when it meets an obstacle it changes course .
I recall back in the QDMA forum days there was a young Lawyer ( big buck killer) from middle TN who had written an article in the QDMA magazine about wind/thermals/currents and hill/mountain hunting. I started a thread about his article and made comment that was the first article I'd ever seen in any magazine on the subject and every hill country hunter should read it. He came on the thread and he and I had a great discussion about the subject. Those midwest pro hunters, and there were some sharp ones , on the forum sat on the sidelines and were like WTF they talking about.

I don’t deny thermals, humidity, nor wind direction. I KNOW the animal can smell you regardless of snakeoils or “wind”. They can also pinpoint you to a tee. Like I said, I’ve watched deer walk from a thousand yards against the wind to 1 kernel of corn. They have stood 2 yards next to me, aggressively scraped a scrape I made. Everytime I piss out of my deer stand I have deer show up within minutes. I’ve noticed more often than not a mature hog or buck will keep the wind to his rear. So, I believe “smell” is not a deer’s first line of caution.

I completely agree with what you're saying......The only I'd say differently though is that the situation you're hunting up there is not necessarily unique as compared to let's say Macon , Bullock Co....Except for a few exceptions like maybe some areas around the Florida line.....there is no flatland... We're all hunting different degrees of Hill country. I deal with the same principles in Macon and Bullock that you do in Jackson...the difference being that the effects are far more dramatic for you and to a lesser degree for me. Still though, there are individual nspots in Bullock County hat have deep ravine and steep ridges where it may be just as dramatic for the one location

Doesn't have to be much of an elevation change to alter the wind , rolling hills will do it.

Yep.....and I believe it's vastly more dynamic than we can wrap our heads around without being able to actually see it. We can grasp how individual terrain features can effect it across a short area.....but the reality is it's being effected by all the terrain features and how the air if flowing off of them and interacting as well....once it swirls off that hill then where doesn't go. Is some other terrain features coming into play? When the air is being pressed down and held against the ground then this flow of sir and scent is going to get really complex in the way it behaves across the landscape from one microarea to the next. I think there are times when something like a drainage carries and spreads the scent of a hot doe or dead deer carcass for no telling how far

I also don’t play the wind because its like smoke at a campfire, how it moves every direction I am.

A 10-15 mph wind out of the north/northwest associated with a cold front is about as good as it gets for playing the wind. I believe there are some spots though that if you’re able to recognize it and figure it out….they will take your scent away in a pretty consistent direction no matter if the wind is overall being shifty. My foodplot I usually show in the T&M thread is the crest of a rise in the terrain between two drainages. One of my stands is in a big oak about halfway to ¾ toward the top of the rise. I’m gonna check it out better before this season with smoke experiments or something….but I believe my scent may be getting sucked into the drainage behind me because the air moving through narrow bottom creating a slight draw as the air funnels down it. I rarely ever get bused due to scent in the stand regardless of what the wind is doing

I’m not of the philosophy that scent and wind are related in this discussion. I do believe “wind” plays more of a role in how or when a deer moves than him moving directional based on a scent in the wind. During a particular wind I can find deer more prevalent in certain spots. I find deer to be creatures of instinct and routine. I can look at an area and by experience walk right to where a trail is in particular terrain, anywhere on the planet.

Topo map will show ya exactly where to look so you don't have to go wandering all over creation. Structure , it's all about structure.

Its as sure of a bet as what you will find off MLK drive in any city

I guess I missed that article, you dont have a link related to that do you?

No, that's prolly been 6-8 years ago.