To many doe days???

Don’t want this to get to off topic just. A simple yes or no will work, and maybe touch on why to your answer.

Does the state have to many doe days??

For me it’s 100% yes. In east central bama, been hunting same ground/area for 15 years now. Last 5-7 years deer numbers have fell off horrible.

Yes. Numbers in my area have fallen way off from years past. I'm strictly speaking of the public lands tho.

Ummmm...a resounding yes from me. Too many baby makers have been removed resulting in a huge decrease in deer populations. I believe the insurance companies have pushed this BS to reduce car/deer collisions in the name of “management”. People have taken it hook,line and sinker and it will take a long time to correct. It’s a generational thinking now go kill a lot of does. I admit I bought into it at first but against it now.

Yes. Way too many. I’ve been so glad it’s rained and been hot. If it keeps some of the bloodthirsty Alabama savages out of the woods it may save some deer for next year. Man I could show you places in tallapoosa and chambers county that don’t have enough deer to justify killing 1 a year. 20 to 25 years ago you could see 12 to 15 deer a day on those leases.

Absolutely yes 100%!! People these days think it’s an unsuccessful hunt if they don’t kill a DEER. I had the privilege of growing up hunting a section of family land my grandpa owned and it was prime. It was nothing to see 30-40 deer in a field any afternoon. We were not allowed to shoot does under any circumstances. It got divided when he passed and we only have 300 acres now and it’s nothing like it used to be. I’m 39 and I’ve killed 3 does in my life and have no desire to kill another. I was in a club in Old Texas several years ago that was a super nice place that they totally ruined in 3yrs due to killing too many does.

Yes.

YES!!!!

No

I havn't shot a doe in 6 or 8 years.

Yes. I hunted in Tallapoosa last season. Numbers were very low.

I dont think they have too many doe days but do think we have too many dumb hunters who keep shooting too many does. Every day should be doe or buck day and hunters should be smart enough to know if they dont see many deer they should not shoot any deer so they see more deer next year.

Me neither. We need less regulation, not more. Yall must all be Chuckies pawns

X3

This is why I can’t have summer food

Yes. I have a neighbor that literally shoots every deer he sees.

They’re not that smart, the idea of a better rut that they have instilled in people’s mind is part of the problem. The other problem is most people have no self control or enough common sense to understand they are killing their reproducers.

I want to say no due to doe days being wide open for as long as I have been hunting. I have never hunted anywhere you could expect to see 20 deer at once. I have seen 15 plus in a long hunt but not at once. I think when the 3 buck rule went I to effect, a lot of folks started hammering the slightest k heads instead of the young bucks. I think less doe days would stop some of that. If anyone kills 10-20 deer to put meat on the table I don't have an issue with that. If someone kills 3 to 5 deer a year and donate all of them, so be it. It's the ones that kill every deer they see but don't eat them that get to me. It's a gray area for me, but in the end as long as it's legal and the meat gets used is what really matters in my opinion.

I don't know, but something I have thought about involves public land and how they handle does compared to private land. Does can only be shot (legally) with a gun for just a couple weeks on NF land. Most WMAs only have a handful of weekends that guns can be used and many of those weekends are buck only. I believe Cahaba only had one or two either sex weekends this season. I don't see bow hunters slaughtering does on public land. If any of that is true, you'd think doe/deer numbers would be good on public land vs. private.

No. I know it is fun to see 20 plus deer on a hunt, but when numbers get that high they will destroy crops. I have had fields that were not worth combining because the deer ate them completely up and this is here in Marshall county where the population is low. I know other farmers in Marshall, Jackson, and Dekalb that have lots of crop damage due to deer.

Why not apply for a crop permit?

Landowner has to agree to the crop permit. A lot of landowners won’t do that for various reasons. If you shoot then in the summer the deer must be left in the field and the meat is wasted.

257,,,, I got the same problem . If I have a garden I have to run electric fence around ever thing

Yet folks won't let people hunt either. John, if you need some help thinning the doe population in some places let me know. Our population on this end of the,mountain is low already and we don't kill does.

This.

yes

No.

Not going to happen. I agree with you 100% Daniel.

I also follow TNdeer as well as a couple of other hunting sites. There is a fellow on TNdeer that has already killed 19 deer this year. I enjoy hunting as much as anyone, but 19 deer in one season??????????????

I wouldn't drag a doe out of the woods for it, but that is just me. I grew up hunting in the 60's here in Colbert and if you saw a deer you were very fortunate. There just wasn't any here to hunt. There were no doe seasons then and our numbers grew! If you shot a doe deer once doe days began, you were talked about negatively for years. EHD, cars, and most of all coyotes have taken a huge toll on our deer numbers statewide. I am so glad we had weather this year that put a huge damper on deer hunting during doe season here in Colbert. The lands I own cant handle doe harvests here.

I don’t like “doe days”. I think you should be able to kill one whenever. However there should be a limit on how many you kill

No.

I think for here I ain't gone say we have to many doe days but we don't shoot but one or 2 off our place every year and they off limits after Christmas.
Just cause we have doe days all season long don't mean you gotta shoot them

Yes and No. I don't like the idea of basically an unlimited doe harvest but on public land, all I see are does since
the season for them is only 2 weeks.

Yes

Yes

Yes and yes on too many idiot hunters. For those of you who claim to have too many how about inviting some kids to come help with your problem.

You can see where everyone hunts by there reaction. We haven’t killed but 1 doe in 4 or 5 years at the house feed plant timber management everything. We don’t see deer much in our fields because half the neighbors around us blast them. We started building our numbers 5 years ago then new neighbors started moving in shooting them now our doe numbers are probably lower then they were before they rebuilt. Last summer I drove from Catherine home one night late. From Catherine to Selma I probably saw 30-40 deer. From Selma home I may have seen 7-8 and it’s further between these two. Some ares of the state could definitely use a bunch of doe days others few if any.

No, no way. I’d rather see them limit harvest than days. Who knows what day I’ll want to shoot a doe? I’m fine the way it is, but would certainly not want to limit my opportunity to shoot one when I want to.

You cant blanket statement the whole state on this topic. I know of places you can see 40+ a day. Other places you could go and hunt 2 or 3 full weekends and not see but one or two.

Unfortunately, most are not though. It amazes me how many hunters think that there's a deer behind every bush.

This is the correct answer.

No.
On private & leased land if you don’t manage your doe harvest, to keep your numbers right they will eat everything.
I like being able to decide the time & place to kill them, helps people take there time and not shoot small bucks.

1000% too many with how long our rifle season is...I mean 3 months to kill does everyday?? Good Lord I am surprised there are still some left! I wish we would go back to the two week doe season or maybe decrease our gun days and replace with archery days...something has to change...

Managing the whole state's herd as one is bad practice. Different areas have different carrying capacities and landowner goals so they should be managed differently. I worked much better when there were limited doe days but if you followed the stipulations set out, you could have a biologist look at the land and issue doe tags. It involved a little work such as keeping up with the jawbones and weights from every deer and sending them to the State after the season, but it was a sound management program. It should be brought back instead of the One Size Fits All approach used now.

1) For those that don't shoot does and think there is no problem - let me know when something around you comes up for lease and I will lease it for my neighbors and let them come hunt next to you. The issue here is totally up to your location and who is hunting around you. Nothing more or less.


Biggest question I have to ask.....


If you have a "doe problem" who is shooting all the young bucks? Because, someone is shooting them. Do you think the does just hatch up out of the mud or something?

From where I'm sitting the scenario goes like this....

Someone (neighbors, whoever) shoots all the small bucks. 5 guys hunting 500 acres and they shoot 10 basket or otherwise less than mature racked deer. That's not their limit ( 2 each) but....That's too many for their acres. So they have killed every small buck off their place and some of the small bucks off their neighbors.

Now you have a "doe problem". All you see are those pesky does. You never think about the fact that they are your breeding stock. The breeding stock you need to overcome your neighbors blasting every small buck they see.

But instead you read ALDeer and are convinced you have to do something about all those does you have... Next you embark on some doe killing. You increase hunting pressure. You see fewer deer. You have less deer to see and less does to make more small bucks for your neighbors to shoot.

Rinse.

Repeat.

You Never have or shoot a mature buck off your property. You can't have it both ways.

VERY high percentage of hunters in AL live this cycle every hunting season.


Instead of a "doe problem" I would love to have a "small buck problem". At that point I would be much more likely to see a mature deer.

No.

No. Not too many does days, but maybe too many to be allowed to kill.

The problem is too many hunters.

The problem is not the number of doe days, or limits available it is the hunters themselves. A lot of hunters think they have to kill a deer every time they hunt. That is the problem. The 3 buck limit is goofy, we have a doctor that hunts next to us, he owns property in Fayette, Pickens and Lamar county. Yet, he can only kill 3 bucks. I hunt in Fayette county and at the Cahaba WMA. If I kill a buck or doe at the Cahaba, it doesn't do anything to the deer herd in Fayette county or vise versa.

Additional rules/regulations and laws from the government aren't needed, we as hunters need to manage the resource better than we have.

For those answering "yes", how many of you support baiting?

Seems to me that is an opposing viewpoint.

You're obviously blaming others for "shooting all the does", but fully supporting something that in theory makes it easier for them to "shoot all the does".

Don't limit the days, just the number your allowed to kill. Maybe there's someone out there that thinks he needs to kill every deer he see's. I know one family like that. As has been said, you can't just throw a blanket over the whole state. We have plenty of deer where we hunt, probably too many. We need to harvest a few more doe deer than we do. To keep the density where it's at, we probably need to kill 8-10 doe a year and we've only killed two during bow season. We used to kill 10-12 a year and really couldn't tell a difference. IMHO, I think peoples method of hunting dictates them not seeing the deer this time of the year and so they think they've killed too many. They over hunt stands. Hunt mainly green fields. Hunt every single off day they have and hunt pretty woods instead of deer woods. Doe deer become educated just like bucks do, when they get too much pressure they move. Biologist will tell you, hunter sighting are a piss poor indication of deer density.

I would be in favor of a lower limit on does and keep the days the same.

The goofy folks here in GA seriously limit my doe days. My county had 8 days, 7 of which happened while I was in Texas. The other is January 1.

I typically see at least 5 does when I hunt my place, and have seen as many as 12 in an afternoon. I have one green field, about 3/4 acre, on my 22 acre place. 100 yards south is the county line, and on the other side, they get 72 doe days.

I don't want to kill a ton of does, but I have a couple of old ones that aren't dropping fawns any more. I will be hunting with a crossbow next year to open up my options.

In my original reply I did not make myself clear. Like I said it is a gray area to me. I do understand the concept though. If a cattle farmer kills 10 heifers and one bull calf every year he is diminishing his herd. If the role is reversed the herd grows a lot closer to its maximum capacity. Overall the answer depends on the end goal. Big herd that may be more than mother nature can handle and let nature run its course or a smaller healthy herd with quality bucks. I don't really know that the latter could be managed as needed with wide spread chiefs and not enough Indians.

Before I’ll answer let me ask if you believe if there are naturally more does born than bucks?

The days ain’t the problem

The people is the problem

Absolutely! We definitely don’t have the deer we had 20 years ago! But just because we have them doesn’t mean you have to shoot everyone you see!

Those of you complaining of low deer numbers, how many coyotes have you trapped?

That's completely irrelevant.
We have high deer density and high Coyote density.
All my life, the places that I found the most deer usually had large numbers of coyotes too.

I wouldn't have a problem with a 2 buck and 3 doe limit season.

2 week bow season & a 1 week gun season, no limits kill all you want.

not too many days...just need a limit on how many does you can kill each season.

People won’t be satisfied with 2 bucks and 3 does I’m afraid. In a scenario above 5 people hunting 500 acres wiped it out. I have people killing 2-3 deer on little 2-3 acre house lots all around me. Prob kill more deer than they have acres of land. Imo it needs to be done based on how much land you hunt. The blanket buck limit didn’t make sense then and the same limits for everyone doesn’t make sense now. One man hunting 1000 acres or five hunting 500 should be balanced somehow. I wish you’d apply for tags based on the amount of land hunted, and if you get caught without a tag it’s your ass!

Dead on post here. The poster " Furflyin " all but quit hunting due to low sightings or not seeing any deer at all on multiple weekends. He's in Marshall county. Myself here in South Montgomery see five to ten deer every weekend. But five to ten years ago saw twice that many and we haven't shot a doe in six years. That's two hunters on five hundred acres.

It's also bad management to have an extended season in North Alabama. Divide the state into multiple zones setting seasons starts, ends, and limits based on real data from hunters, processors, state and private biologist in that area. Makes sense.

FIFY

I just find it funny how 20 years ago in my area of the state there was quantity and quality. Quantity has gone way down and quality has stayed the same. Every property is different and there’s no one way to make everything come together. I’ll go ahead and say I believe we have killed way too many does and not near enough other predators. The balance is out of whack.

So trapping coyotes where deer density is low isn’t relevant? You know actually doing something you can control vs complaining on a forum that does absolutely nothing.

x4

No one's forcing anyone to shoot does.

Most definitely there are. A little 4 month old buck gets put out into the world all by himself while the does stay together in family groups. There may be as many or even more buck fawns born as there are doe fawns but there is no way anywhere near as many live to be 1 year old.

Too many doe days for my area

I haven’t shot a doe in probably 6-8 years either. Haven’t shot a buck in 4 years, of course my son is my trigger man but even he won’t shoot a doe now. He hasn’t shot a doe in probably 3-4 years I guess. Now my father-in-law will shoot the first deer he sees, regardless of whether its a doe, spike, state record, etc..., doesn’t matter to him. His reasoning is that if he doesn’t shoot it, someone else will. He hunts within the law, so I don’t really say anything but then he turn s around and complains that he doesn’t see hardly any deer. Go figure.

All this over regulation has me sitting out deer season again. It's absurd.


The same people that think you can manage a herd of animals across an entire state are the same ones that think you can manage the weather (global warming). You can't. The answer is, of course, to do as much as you can locally to accomplish whatever your goals are. The old frame work of does days gave the landowner and club member the tools to manage locally, but that's not conducive to bigger gov't, increased power and revenue, and telling other people what to do.

And we thank you for it!
I wish more people would follow your example.

Correct, nobody is forcing my neighbors to shoot multiple deer every time they get to the wood line that is 200 yards from their house.

But that's exactly what they do.

Because it is legal.

I have no idea what in the cornbread hail they do with all those deer they shoot . They are giving them away. I know they don't have a freezer big enough to keep all of them.

So, I'm guessing I'm helping feed 1/2 that side of the county. I'm completely thrilled about that. All the work I'm putting in planting year-round and improving my land is really paying off for them.

This^^^

Some people think just because you can, you should.

Some of the public land I hunt has better population numbers than my lease. Quality is definitely not the same though. I think the state does a great job managing those tracts I hunt. Just can’t figure out why public land is managed different than private.

Deer are easy to manage, people are not.

The problem is that people think of wildlife as "my property if it's on my property". But it's not.
Wildlife is a natural resource, hence the "Dept of Conservation and Natural Resources " title.
My problem is that the "Dept of Conservation and Natural Resources" has forgotten who they are and what they are charged with.
They are far more concerned about politics and money, and absolutely oblivious to the resources.

Well said

2Dogs is right.

And, therefore the problem. They are NOT charged with managing people!!!!!!!
They are supposed to be managing the resources.

The "one size fits all" approach isn't in effect anymore, compared to years ago when we didn't have the A-B-C zones we have now.

I'd guess we will have more changes coming after another year or three of GameCheck. Whether you believe the numbers are flawed, skewed, somewhat accurate, "only 30 percent" being reported or whatever, it's what we have and will be used.

Right now, the total is 44,629 deer reported since opening day. I can't believe that is true after 2.5 months. There are easy ways to get around GC for those who don't want to report and/or aren't reporting. But it's what we have.

Do we want to be like Louisiana or Arkansas with two dozen zones, dates, limits? I don't. They have about two dozen zones and a map that looks like a Rorschach test. I also know the "one size" approach likely isn't the best for management, although I (and probably others) prefer it for simplicity's sake.

Gotta be some middle ground, which I think we're in now with the A-B-C zones and ability for tweaks when necessary.

Amen to that

Limits won’t work

50% of the deer killed so far hasn’t been checked in as it is

One thing that worries me about them changing and going to doe days or x number of does per hunter is that it may make things worse. If they go back to doe days, the hunters that don't know whether or not the land can handle killing does are going to be on vacation, or take days off and go on a full slaughter, just because they can.

If they go to x number of does, the killers are going to shoot every doe, fawn, or knot head they see because in their mind they can only kill so many.

I've seen this with some bowhunters looking on Faceboook pages. They want to get those first 2 or 3 kills in with their bow for meat, or to give a few deer away to people that want meat, and the first 3 weeks of bow season is a social media extravaganza of milk sacks and titties to show they got em one. That may happen during gun season if they change it.

I dont shoot does unless somebody is hungry

YES! The State needs to either cut back on the days or put a limit. The only reason I wouldn’t be a bigger supporter of limits is one thing I have learned about the majority of Alabama hunters is they are basically outlaws one way or the other whether they admit it or not....just look at the failure to report the kills statewide or the amount of corn sold throughout the State before this year. The majority would never live by the limit.

Kinda sums up the whole thread

I’ve shot deer countless, countless times for other people, and bow season is perfect for that. I personally don’t see anything wrong with that. Somebody who wants meat and doesn’t hunt, imo should get some help. I live in a small town though, it’s what we do. What I’ve seen that’s happening all over the state that IS bad is shooting a deer and giving it to the processor. That hunter has no skin in the game. If they burned a tag on that deer, they’d choose wisely.

This made me laugh.

The middle ground would be like I said, fewer doe days but let the people that want to kill more does participate in the Deer Management Program and get the appropriate number of doe tags. People quit participating simply because there are enough doe days that doe tags are not needed to shoot as many as you want or need.

So you didn't hunt this year because of over regulation, but the state gave you less regulations this year than we had last year. From your post is sounds like you actually want more regulation. Which I don't have a problem with just trying to figure out your post.

I hunt Franklin, Winston and Marion counties primarily and occasionally Pickens.

No doubt about it, there are more deer in the first three counties listed where I hunt there than have ever been in the last 20 yrs. The limited # of doe days piss me off b/c they fall during the first week of season and the middle of the rut (the two best times to kill a good buck).

I need to shoot about 5 more does in each spot but it won’t happen b/c I’m not spending the week of the rut shooting does.

Clem is right. If you decide to go hunt deer somewhere here in Louisiana, you better do your research to make sure that the season for that area is open. And also find out what the regs are on what can be killed.

Yes

This needs to be a signature line lol

Louisiana, 10 zones - http://www.eregulations.com/louisiana/hunting/deer-hunting-seasons/

Arkansas, 17 or more. Dunno how many - https://www.agfc.com/en/hunting/big-game/deer/deerzones/

I wish they would go back to 2 a day. Seeing 20-30 a sit is no problem where I'm at.

How do you know it's 50%?

This sums it up perfectly. Alabama has been so "free" and unlimited for so long its just the way it is now. Bunch a damn heathen outlaws that don't give 2 chits about the resource as a hole. It's gonna take a mentality change for things to get any better. Some place got plenty of deer some places not so much. My places here in NW Marshall and SE Madison counties have no where near the deer numbers we had 20 years ago. Some of that is due to habitat loss from the exploding housing market, some due to EHD and coyotes. But the biggest factor is the damn night shooters and the folks who kill everything they see. Until that can be overcome I'm afraid it'll only get worse.

I didn't know Marion Co had doe days.

Sounds like you need to find a few kids to take hunting.

I hunt two different properties about 100 miles apart. On one property we need to shoot 25-30 does on 1600 acres and isn’t uncommon to see 15-20 does a sit and no bucks. The other property is 1800 acres and we’ll probably shoot 6 does off if it..

When I was about 5ish back in 2000, we would see herds of deer in the cow pasture behind the house. We literally haven’t seen deer back there since I was about 7. Wrr we had about 8 that would bed in a little patch of trees right in the middle of a field. It’s nearly impossible to see a deer period on our property now. Something changed

About 5% in the NE corner has limited doe days-

Killing one doe can deplete a local herd of a pile of deer over a five year period. You gotta think about the fawns that one doe could have plus the fawns of those fawns. And that’s just one deer. I know some areas don’t have the deer that other areas do but we have to manage the natural resources in some type of way. The unlimited doe slaughtering has not helped people see numbers of deer. The goal of doe killing is a healthy balance of does to bucks and how many can healthily sustain on one property but that’s property specific. There is no way for a state biologist to set seasons that will benefit everyone’s property. The open season allows you as the leasee or land owner to determine that for yourself. You can shoot as many as you want or sit back and watch the population jump. I think a big problem is that people are paying good money to join clubs or leases and are wanting to get there money’s worth. They don’t see many deer from the over harvest of the does from so many years ago and they want to jump from lease to lease or club to club. That just drives the demand up for property. I think if people saw more deer in general they would be happier with their investments. If that’s the case bring back the doe days and allow the population to thrive all across the state. Set several weeks of the long drawn out season to allow harvest of does and that could be done more or less by zones. I feel like Alabama has back tracked in the overall good or management of its natural resources and now it’s all about money.

I thought one of the benefits of the "bait license" money was to hire more game wardens for the areas that need more help. Has that happened yet, and is it still in the budget?

I wouldn't think that would happen immediately. I wish it would. They've been down about 20-25 spots (counting admin) for years, unless that number has decreased in the last 10 or so. Hiring new ones seemed to be a perpetual challenge for many reasons.

not happening. No "extra" money EVER goes to hiring more GWs.

I figured the bait license money would just be treated like CCW permits issued by sheriffs....to be used at Chuck's "discretion".

Nope. Too many does on farm. I hope the farmer lays them down this year

Sounds like you need some more hunters.

I think part of the problem is these mega neighborhoods. They are covered up with does. Heard of them and they get counted into the states numbers. I live in one in Bham and we see doe everyday, they eat anything you put out flower wise. And when I visited a friend in Hville, same thing. We saw 30 plus doe. On my hunting lease we've seen 4 does and 7 bucks, all year. I think they should limit it to one doe and end doe days before January each year

[img]https://imgur.com/a/eVv9iqD[/img]

Looks like they are doing there part in Beaverton to keep the population in check.

Sounds like you need some help controlling that doe population. Just saying I ain't far from ya, have rifle/will travel.

No.

Its hard enough getting into the woods for some people. If you want to limit # of deer killed then limit the # allowed for the season but let the hunter choose when to take them.

the dept pushed liberal doe killing for 30 years, saying you could not kill too many does by lawful hunting. All the while denying that coyotes had ANY effect on deer numbers.

Yet here we are in 2020.....

Maybe,maybe not, depends on where you are. Location, location, location.

That's really sad. And I bet that's how most leases are now. I don't like new laws, though.

Maybe y'all should just kill more does so that you can see more deer?

Yep

The actual truth isn't on either side, it's in the middle.
Yes you can kill too many does, but the average Joe on average land can't.
Yes coyotes do kill "some" deer but nowhere even close to the stats published by recently (Overfunded and highly profitable) published studies.

Question. Why have the members of your club slaughtered the doe's to the point of extinction? Just because they say you can kill a doe a day, doesn't mean you should. How a bout each club set their own rules on their belief and their deer sightings and leave the govt out of it. You suburbanites need to get together and do some bowhunting in your subdivisions.

when the dept preaches killing does, sets the limit at two per day, and season long doe days.....wth do ya'll think is going to happen. Don't recall the dept doing ANY workshops on how many is enough or too many.

Yes. I think too many does are killed. I would not limit the days. I prefer a limit on the number of does you can kill per year with the same rule as bucks they must be checked in,

I concur. If coyotes killed as many fawns as some studies suggest, we wouldn't have any deer. Yesterday I saw 4 different fawns in a 4 hour sit. Why is it that apparently in some area's coyotes must kill damn near every fawn and every hunter must shoot every doe deer they see? But in my neck of the woods coyotes don't seem to kill all the fawns and we don't shoot every doe deer we see. We have plenty of deer in our area and I hear a pack or 2 of coyotes every night. BTW, if coyotes rely on deer so much for their food, how is it with deer being almost non-existent in some area's( according to some of you) that coyote numbers are still high? Everything in nature runs in cycles. A lot of game equals lots of predators. Low game numbers, low predator numbers.

Yes you can I have seen it happen personally witnessed it myself twice.

Here is something for y'all to chew on.

1) This season we shot about a 140 inch deer in a food plot running around a few does (early rut)....

We had pictures of this deer on another piece of property 5 miles away as the crow flies.

Never had a picture or seen hide nor hair of him on the place until he was killed.


2) On another place we hunt I have seen at least 6 deer within the last 2 weeks that I have ZERO pictures of and have never seen before on the property and we feed year-round. They are small bucks and not what we want to shoot but they showed up. And these are not mature deer you would assume could be shy of the feeders. If they were hanging out around there 24/7 I would have pictures of them.


What happened?....The deer were/are there because of the does.

We don't shoot does out of the food plots and I could very easily fall into the notion that I need to thin them out. We will see 15-20 does per sit on this place. You want the does. When the rut gets going our place will be ground zero for about a 5 mile wide radius around it. Folks around this place blast a LOT of deer. A lot of our small bucks are going to get killed cursing the countryside looking for their own piece of the action.....

Either way we will probably see and shoot a good one or two over the next couple weeks. The bucks are on our property because we've got the does.

Goat, the new yearling bucks that you are seeing, are probably the ones the momma's run off of other properties.

Very true. .

But, I'm not talking about yearlings - 2.5 year old 8 pointers.

That's small bucks in my book. But that is a pretty good one for many hunters just a nice ear width symmetrical deer.

I saw 2 myself in 2 sits. Never seen them before and have zero pictures of them. Wish I had a kid with me they would have made a very fine first deer.

I have also witnessed this first hand.....I promise it can be done and it takes a LONG time to recover.

Hell Yes! Deer numbers are bad low across the river from you DW. On the other hand, turkey numbers are damn good.

Wish we would go to tags. 2 bucks and 4 does per person. Get the tags mailed to you once license is purchased. BIG fines for deer found with no tags. Works in other states where the hunting is much better than ours.

When I hunted in Iowa years ago, our hosts were insistent that we put on the tags before moving any deer. Doe, buck, didn't matter. Make sure the tag was filled out appropriately and affixed.

They didn't want us to get into trouble and they didn't want to get into trouble for not letting us know. Said they had good relationships with the game wardens, worked with them on poaching issues and trying to maintain that good relationship, and they wanted us to know what to do and that failing to do so wouldn't be shrugged off as a first-time "they didn't know" or "they don't do it like that where they live" kind of thing.

You really wanna get some some Fudd's wrapped around the axle tell them that would include keeping proof of sex with the meat when transporting. I'd expect some actual heart attacks.

Does any state require that now? Which ones?

Absolutely required in Colorado, and that is what you tag as well. Antlers do not count as proof of sex either. Too easy for someone to shoot a male and then claim the meat is from a female or vice versa.

Interesting. Didn't know they did that. Is that for all big game animals, or just elk and deer?

All big game.

Id be fine where I hunt if season didn't open till 15 Dec. and the limit was 2 bucks and 2 does

There are a lot of good posts and opinions in this thread.

You can definitely overkill does.
That is proven fact and you can wipe out a deer herd by doing it.
And that is what happened all over the Southeastern U.S. with all the QDM "you can't kill enough does" bs.

We basically stopped killing does in 2007 when we had a regional population collapse that resulted from killing too many does
coupled with a coyote explosion.

Now we just kill 2 for the freezer each season - one for me and one for my brother who lives out of state.
I kill his early and save it for him and he kills a doe on his last day of rut hunting in late January for me.

Fewer does = fewer deer = fewer bucks = fewer mature bucks.

Ok, we have 6 pages of opinions from a bunch of rednecks, me included. Now I would like some of our biologist to weigh in with some actual data.

Aren’t biologists some of the ones who pushed blasting all the does?

A big chunk of those does end up being button bucks. I’ve watched the last area manager ruin Skyline over the last 10 years. Now they went from slaughter them all to no either sex gun hunts. Hacks

No wonder we can't keep any biologist on this forum. I'll go along with a college educated biologist who has done field study work, camera studies, deer collared studies, and doe conception studies for years, over Billybob who couldn't see a deer at a deer petting zoo. Calhoun and Talladega counties are full, and I mean full of deer. Full of coyotes too, so I don't get why some of you don't have deer. People spotlight here just like they do everywhere else. Ridgestalker, don't blame the biologist because people are too stupid to buy a pair of binoculars and cant tell a knothead from a doe. It's always somebody else's fault.

Not sure why anyone shoots those little 30-40 lb deer.

Biologists work to implement these regs for the entire state, they are analyzing much larger data sets than say your everyday joe's back 40. What works on your lease or land may not fit the regs....maybe you shouldnt be shooting does on your land, maybe you could afford to shoot as many as you want. There needs to be some discretion here, just because the law allows you to do so doesnt necessarily mean you should. Now imagine if the state biologists were to set regs based on the lowest common denominator to ensure all the bases are covered. How many of us would be up in arms about the lack of tags for the amount of deer we are seeing?

I agree it is not not regs it is the people. Most have no discretion. Just like the people that move out of the city buy 10-15-20 acres "they have bought a farm". So they see some deer and think man this place is covered up with deer so for a few years they kill 4-5-6 deer every year. To stupid to realize if every one that has 10-15-20 acres does that it won't last long. Then they blame there neighbors for killing all the deer. I see this happen where I live.

What people don't realize is that when you go to dropping the hammer on everything you see, deer will move off your property, especially small properties. Deer are not stupid, well some maybe, but not for the most part. Deer have home ranges of 400-600 acres, even larger in some area's. If 2-3 people hunt 20 acres and plug away at the deer, well they'll just move off that property, until dark. Some area's, i'm sure have a decreased herd, but I also think people don't adapt their hunting strategies during hunting season. They hunt the same 2-3 places every time they go and don't realize the deer have patterned them and so now they think all the deer are dead.

I’m not saying their are hacks. But when you go from one extreme to the other it’s pretty obvious. I’m not talking about private property but public and the only way to try and control the herd is by setting seasons and limits.

Biologists are NOT pushing the wholesale slaughter of does. Most of the public lands are managed for does much better than private land.

The state biologists will come out and work with your club, lease, private farm, etc to help manage your populations correctly and ITS FREE. All you have to do is ask them. I have been working with our own Matt Brock for several years now on our lease (700 acres). It’s probably the best thing we ever did for our property and now we have a neighbor club doing things exactly how we have been doing. And guess what our population numbers have done? Significant increase in density and sightings. I’m pretty sure Matt is not the only GOOD biologists employed by the state.

If more people would utilize these services we would see a change but it takes time to educate people and even longer to “reprogram” some of these hunters that think it’s ok to shoot every damn deer they see. Some places can afford to shoot bunches of does but even more cannot.

Actually, that's exactly what you called them.

Guys this ain't rocket science. If you want to see more deer don't shoot no does. If you are seeing a good many does and none or very few bucks you have a buck problem not a doe problem, only shoot 4-5 year old bucks I promise you won't shoot to many of them. If you are seeing as many of both that you care to see then kill about as many does as you do bucks every year to keep a stable population. Seems pretty simple to me. If you have a small tract of land try to get your neighbors to do the same thing. Talk to your neighbors share game can pics etc. if you can't do any of that, find new neighbors.

In my experience with all the hunters I have and land I lease....this is what happens.

A group wants to manage their land but they don't have enough acres to do this because there is no such thing as a boundary for a deer. Their ranges overlap. So your neighbor who blasts everything they see on their irregular shaped 1,000 acres soon start hunting your property line because they quit seeing deer in the middle of their property.

Then what happens is they are shooting your deer along with you. And the group of guys that have trigger control begin their uphill battle against this. Ultimately in a lot of cases they just give up, move to another lease, etc. because they can't do anything about it. Even worse for the landowner or someone who owns and hunts their own land. They can't do a dern thing about it they are stuck unless they sell - and that's ridiculous to imagine selling your land because a bunch of folks next to you blast everything they see. That shouldn't be that way. It ain't right.

That's a real situation. I don't understand why some people don't seem to get it. They only think about their own situation with no regard to other groups of hunters. They are happy and don't have this problem.... so if the next group of hunters has the problem tough titty?


In order to eliminate this you would need a 400-500 acre buffer zone all the way around your property. If 500 acres was your nucleus or core area you would need 2,000 acres around it to keep the deer from crossing a boundary.

Most of us don't have that kind of acreage in a square.... and IMO that's what it would take to really keep you neighbors from significantly impacting your deer herd.

I meant to say not all are hacks. I’m only speaking for Skyline WMA and no where else. The last area manager came from Barbour WMA and managed Skyline the same. 2 does a day every gun hunt for years. The new biologists took over and says we don’t have enough deer left to even have an either sex rifle hunt.... and she’s right.

Been hunting on lauderdale management area this week. That place is pathetic for deer hunting. Last biologist had doe days every hunt. Now cant even see a deer . Hardly any deer sign at all. That guy is gone now its only bucks this yr. it will take yrs for the deer population to come back after the doe eradication. Makes me sick with it being such a great place to hunt in the past . I walked lots of cutover this week an saw one buck an no does.there are some best foodplots i ever seen but no deer tracks in them at all. One had big sawtooths oaks in it with acorns everywhere an none eaten.go back to hunting lease which is only 10 miles away an see 9 deer within first hr this morning

Farmers are shooting alot of deer during
The summer time. No one takes that into consideration.
It suçks to have your land next to a big farm
You try to let deer get big and farmer ß
Shoots. any deer that they see.