old does

Interesting read about old does

https://www.qdma.com/articles/what-i-learned-from-ancient-whitetail-does

Very interesting read!

very interesting. Bet they made a lot of fawns

20.5 years old, damn. Bet that was a smart old Momma doe!

Don't you know it!!! Thanks to the OP for posting this. Good article

how do they test age other than teeth?

Wow I always thought deer had a lifespan of about 12 years! Great article!

Not necessarily about the article, but talking about old does reminds me of an issue I used to have with a club I was in. Everybody always talked about hoping a big mature doe would come out this evening so they could kill one for meat. I would contest that they should be shooting a yearling (or otherwise young doe) instead. I have no scientific learning on this, just observation, but ALL the old does I would see had babies, and very often twins, and even a few would have triplets. They were better, more protective mothers, thus overall more beneficial to the herd. We had one doe that had triplets two years in a row, we called her "old flop ear", and made her off limits. She was a COW, huge doe, and for whatever reason one ear flopped. First year we saw her she had three knothead babies!!! Opening morning of bow season she walked right under me with those babies, she looked cross-eyed, crazy, and half bald! LOL Bless her heart!! Next year she would bring three babies out on a greenfield every evening (never noticed what they were). I got out of that club the next year, so who knows what happened.

In general old does make better mamas. They have the best fawning areas for the survival of their babies.

Dang I've killed a couple 10 YO's but twenty. Dang she was one smart cookie.

I knew a fellow that killed a doe whose teeth looked like that. Makes me wish now he had gotten her aged.

Wow. I figured the natural lifespan was 10 years at the most under ideal circumstances (captivity). Learn something everyday.

Dr. B

I killed an old doe at Oakmulgee WMA on a muzzleloader hunt in the 80's the biologist said was at least 13 years old. They were amazed, she was an old survivor...,until she met my Renegade .50 cal. Oh those were some fun hunts!

there was a peace in Deer & Deer Hunting on old Does, a old doe could be barren & be a matriarch in her area, and will defend her territory, and run other deer off.

I've never once checked the teeth on any does I've dropped. Never even crossed my mind. I'll be doing it from now on. Very interesting.

I agree with you, I talked to a biologist and he said you should always try and shoot yearling does, they eat twice as much as an old doe and are more likely to only drop single fawns, I then asked him about the chance of shooting button bucks by mistake and he said the benefit definitely out weighs the cons

If you shoot a single young deer in a field its most likely a button buck the doe has run off. By waiting till you see several deer you can cut down on shooting buttons. Then you simply avoid shooting the biggest one .

(cementum annuli analysis ) Deer teeth have growth rings in them similar to trees. The lab cuts the tooth and " reads" the rings under a microscope. It's not 100%. Other than teeth, I know of no accurate method other than putting a tag in their ear when born.

We shoot big does without fawns. Average doe weight last year was 112lb and without looking at my paperwork I believe 4.5 years old. Out of only 5 does off 1000 acres.

I need to shoot these salt lick hoarding does but those usually have twins.

Good read, thanks

Where I hunt, a doe is lucky to make it to 2 or 3. I have tried and tried to get people in our club to take 2 years off of killing any does, but they watch buckmasters, whitetail properties, and read too many hunting magazines. They're brainswashed by QDMA that every piece of land '' needs the does thinned '', plus QDMA gives bloodthirsty uneducated hunters a reason to '' shoot something cause they need the meat ''. They kill about 17 50 to 60lb does from October 15th through the 2nd week of gun season, and then complain because they aren't seeing any deer!!!

I never would have imagined that any deer could live that long.

I killed a 130 lb doe at Skyline last season, wonder how old she was?

To me, if you want LESS deer you should shoot the old doe. This is the reason to shoot does in general right? (Besides meat of course)

If you want MORE deer you should shoot NO does and only bucks.

It doesn't seem to me like you should ever shoot the young doe.

Backwards. To decrease the population and grow bigger deer, you shoot the young does. The reasoning is simple. 1. since they are younger, they will produce more babies over their lifetime and 2. since they still need to grow and will live longer they will consume more food over their lifetime being a bigger strain to the available food sources.

That is not my logic but is something I learned from Gobbler and his biologist buddies.

Jawbone, do you think, in theory at least, that its possible to grow bigger deer and not include reducing the herd as a goal?
In other words, I know why people want bigger deer, but why would one want fewer deer on their property?

Interesting!

We don't have the "too many deer problem" so I don't shoot any.

Certainly it's possible but it would mean increasing the available food source in quantity and quality without exceeding the carrying capacity of the land. That would be a fine line to reach equilibrium and stay there. You wouldn't have to decrease the herd as much as making sure it didn't increase.

As to why fewer deer wanted, I can speak to our experience. The land I hunt on was basically a swamp and giant soybean farm in the late 70's and early 80's. Not unheard of to see 50 deer in a day and they were healthy. Then all that ended with the farming so we had tons of deer with little to eat. It was affecting the weights and rack sizes so we were told to reduce the herd. We killed does without mercy. I know one year I sent the state about 130 jawbones. Keep in mind there are only a few of us that hunt this land. It was real work for years, but we seem to have reached the point of not exceeding the carrying capacity. Everything looks good again.

That makes perfect sense to me, now that I see your point of view. I wasn't considering carrying capacity and sustaining the food supply. I was thinking just personal preference for hunting land. Glad I asked.
My perspective is also influenced by the fact that our overall deer numbers seem to have dwindled over the last 4-5 years and we've only killed 3 deer in that period of time.

Personally, when we had tons of deer, it was more fun bowhunting because you had a great chance to fling an arrow about every time you went, but there was just no challenge in rifle hunting when you felt like you had to kill a doe every time you saw one. Like I said, it really became work. Now with the population in check to where it should be, rifle hunting is fun again because it is more of a challenge than before and we always have a better chance for a trophy. We just have to remind ourselves we still need to shoot a sufficient number of does in order to keep the standard.

One other area of interest that a wildlife researcher could study is that it seems like after the years of blasting away at all the does, the whole population got smarter as if they educate themselves and then pass that down. Is it that or is it just the fact that there are fewer deer? Even when I see them now and just watch them, they sure seem smarter and more cautious than they used to be.